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iTunes 4 Sharing CIRCUMVENTED!!!
- Thread starter melchior
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Some of you guys are making too much of this. This in no way compromises the security of iTunes or their DRM scheme. Most people don't know that HTTP uses port 80 (or what a "port" is, for that matter), but that doesn't mean anyone's trying to obscure the source of the content. The means by which files are shared does not need to be made public, but neither does it need to be a part of the overall security scheme.
The threat of P2P networks is not in the ability to connect to a machine and download the files. It's in the fact that they provide a huge directory of source machines. When you join a file-sharing network, you're not just sharing files with a couple of friends. You're advertising to the world at large that you have a collection of songs that you're willing to distribute to all comers for free.
Neither Apple nor iTunes provides this service. Rendezvous can be used to advertise to machines on your LAN, but that's by definition a relatively restricted audience. For anyone to access your machine from the Internet, you have to have a public IP address. If your machine is behind a NAT firewall, you'll have to forward the port manually. And then anyone who wants to connect will have to know your IP address, which you'll have to give them. You won't want to publish your address to the world at large if you ever want to use your Internet connection again.
And if someone ever creates a service that provides a global directory of iTunes shares, you won't have to wait for the RIAA to get litigious. Apple will demand it be shut down first, since the existence of such a service jeopardizes their relationship with the labels.
And though I can't seem to find the iTunes license agreement (now that I don't have the installer anymore), I imagine there's probably a clause in there somewhere that voids your license to use iTunes if you use it in that way.
The threat of P2P networks is not in the ability to connect to a machine and download the files. It's in the fact that they provide a huge directory of source machines. When you join a file-sharing network, you're not just sharing files with a couple of friends. You're advertising to the world at large that you have a collection of songs that you're willing to distribute to all comers for free.
Neither Apple nor iTunes provides this service. Rendezvous can be used to advertise to machines on your LAN, but that's by definition a relatively restricted audience. For anyone to access your machine from the Internet, you have to have a public IP address. If your machine is behind a NAT firewall, you'll have to forward the port manually. And then anyone who wants to connect will have to know your IP address, which you'll have to give them. You won't want to publish your address to the world at large if you ever want to use your Internet connection again.
And if someone ever creates a service that provides a global directory of iTunes shares, you won't have to wait for the RIAA to get litigious. Apple will demand it be shut down first, since the existence of such a service jeopardizes their relationship with the labels.
And though I can't seem to find the iTunes license agreement (now that I don't have the installer anymore), I imagine there's probably a clause in there somewhere that voids your license to use iTunes if you use it in that way.
Doesn't seem like a huge deal to me... I mean, you could just run an FTP server or HTTP server (both built in) and share your ~/Music directory... am I missing something?
The program linked above does not stream the file in Real Time, it is an http transfer. Run it against "localhost" (your own machine) and it will take only a few seconds to download from your library.
At work (a University) our wireless network has 8000 IP addresses. There are regularly 10-15 iTunes libraries being shared. I have no idea who is on the network running this app and downloading all my hard earned (both in money and time spent ripping) music.
At work (a University) our wireless network has 8000 IP addresses. There are regularly 10-15 iTunes libraries being shared. I have no idea who is on the network running this app and downloading all my hard earned (both in money and time spent ripping) music.
Re: Isn't sharing "off" by default?
Because There are many people that I work with, whom I know, that I would be happy to share my library with, since I trust them not to steal my music. There are also 6000 people that I do not know on the same subnet who could potentially see my library.
If you live in a small town, you may give your friends keys to your house, since you know them, but you won't leave your house unlocked. Before this app was released and made it trivial to steal other people's itunes music on a semi-public network, we had almost a week of living in a small town where you can leave your house unlocked, but now that is not the case.
ummm... think bigger. think different. there is a difference between wanting to share and being completely open to anyone.
Because There are many people that I work with, whom I know, that I would be happy to share my library with, since I trust them not to steal my music. There are also 6000 people that I do not know on the same subnet who could potentially see my library.
If you live in a small town, you may give your friends keys to your house, since you know them, but you won't leave your house unlocked. Before this app was released and made it trivial to steal other people's itunes music on a semi-public network, we had almost a week of living in a small town where you can leave your house unlocked, but now that is not the case.
ummm... think bigger. think different. there is a difference between wanting to share and being completely open to anyone.
New Napster?
So sharing is legal and implemented in iTunes as long as it is just being streamed, correct? And now they have a program that people can catalog their daap/IP addresses, correct? And now someone has made a program that lets you download files from those unsuspecting people, correct? Now all you need is a program that will search through the names of their files before downloading the file. It seems to me that apple has set themselves up to be one program away from napster. So who is going to be taken to court? I am sure I am guilty if I download those programs and then download a file from someone else. But is the other guy responsible who is advertising his music eventhough he unsuspectingly allowed me to download it? Or is apple responsible for setting up the whole mess? It seems like a wierd situation. Seems like apple is just asking for trouble.
So sharing is legal and implemented in iTunes as long as it is just being streamed, correct? And now they have a program that people can catalog their daap/IP addresses, correct? And now someone has made a program that lets you download files from those unsuspecting people, correct? Now all you need is a program that will search through the names of their files before downloading the file. It seems to me that apple has set themselves up to be one program away from napster. So who is going to be taken to court? I am sure I am guilty if I download those programs and then download a file from someone else. But is the other guy responsible who is advertising his music eventhough he unsuspectingly allowed me to download it? Or is apple responsible for setting up the whole mess? It seems like a wierd situation. Seems like apple is just asking for trouble.
well i believe Apple states that streaming from itunes (whether someone is copying or not) is for personal use not public use. Listing your address on ServerStore (www.thelittleappfactory.com) could be interpreted as public use of a private feature. Although some people seem to think Apple has put a block on how many people you can stream to (to prevent high volume public sharing) it seems the only limit is some sort of smart bandiwdth watcher. It makes sure it doesnt allow more people to connect than the bandwidth can stream to without excessive rebuffering.
The applications that allow capturing of streams also seem to know they are on shakey ground as they seem to be trying to maintain a low profile (no public releases or announcements). These applications would seem to be the most highly suspect.
But it really is not in Apple's style to directly confront these sorts of things. If Apple does want to prevent these (which I suspect they won't bother with) then it would be more in their style to make sure the apps have to be rewritten after every update to iTunes, quicktime, OSX, etc).
The fact is is that there is no 'unsuspecting' people here. You can turn on and off the sharing. Yo can password protect it if you only want a few people to join. And no one is being forced to publish their itunes stream addresses.
Mac only sharing networks always seem to be much more friendly, so this does have the potencial to become something big, but from the applications that are currently available it seems no developer is willing (yet) to jump headlong into this. I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for itunes DL to become the next napster.
The applications that allow capturing of streams also seem to know they are on shakey ground as they seem to be trying to maintain a low profile (no public releases or announcements). These applications would seem to be the most highly suspect.
But it really is not in Apple's style to directly confront these sorts of things. If Apple does want to prevent these (which I suspect they won't bother with) then it would be more in their style to make sure the apps have to be rewritten after every update to iTunes, quicktime, OSX, etc).
The fact is is that there is no 'unsuspecting' people here. You can turn on and off the sharing. Yo can password protect it if you only want a few people to join. And no one is being forced to publish their itunes stream addresses.
Mac only sharing networks always seem to be much more friendly, so this does have the potencial to become something big, but from the applications that are currently available it seems no developer is willing (yet) to jump headlong into this. I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for itunes DL to become the next napster.
Re: Re: Re: Isn't sharing "off" by default?
You are missing the boat here... There are 8000 machines that can see my laptop advertise it is sharing my itunes library for streaming, I would like 25 people to have full access to my library (minus protected aac files). The way iTunes is implemented, I need to use a password to protect my library.
I would have let all 8000 people access my library, but now that any one of the 7975 people that I do not know can steal all my music, I don't want to share without a password anymore. Kind of sucks in a way. I have regularly had 4 people accessing my library, until I password protected it.
I think a 3rd party app would be nice. One that would let me see who was actively listening to my library, that would let me block specific users. Something like a buddy list and who can send a person messages in AIM. If i saw a user "listening to all of my Public Enemy songs in 5 minutes, I would know they were downloading my songs and not streaming them. If I could then block them, I would be happy.
You are missing the boat here... There are 8000 machines that can see my laptop advertise it is sharing my itunes library for streaming, I would like 25 people to have full access to my library (minus protected aac files). The way iTunes is implemented, I need to use a password to protect my library.
I would have let all 8000 people access my library, but now that any one of the 7975 people that I do not know can steal all my music, I don't want to share without a password anymore. Kind of sucks in a way. I have regularly had 4 people accessing my library, until I password protected it.
I think a 3rd party app would be nice. One that would let me see who was actively listening to my library, that would let me block specific users. Something like a buddy list and who can send a person messages in AIM. If i saw a user "listening to all of my Public Enemy songs in 5 minutes, I would know they were downloading my songs and not streaming them. If I could then block them, I would be happy.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Isn't sharing "off" by default?
although I don't subscribe to the belief that sharing music is 'stealing' (or immoral) I agree that such features would be worthwhile in order to form a healthier itunes sharing community.
The guys at thelittleappfactory.com are working on an update to their serverstore app (allows people to publish their itunes stream so they can share with people) with a lot more features. I suggest you email them and ask them if they could add what you are describing (i've already emailed them myself).
the head coder is a big supporter of apple and anti-music piracy so i think he would agree with you and see the need for what you describe.
although I don't subscribe to the belief that sharing music is 'stealing' (or immoral) I agree that such features would be worthwhile in order to form a healthier itunes sharing community.
The guys at thelittleappfactory.com are working on an update to their serverstore app (allows people to publish their itunes stream so they can share with people) with a lot more features. I suggest you email them and ask them if they could add what you are describing (i've already emailed them myself).
the head coder is a big supporter of apple and anti-music piracy so i think he would agree with you and see the need for what you describe.
I still think that this is all a test by the music industry to see if this will work as a model for the future internet sales. Think of the users, limited to OS X and the U.S. They want us to abuse the system before the release a Windows version. That way if serious problems arise they can pull the plug. I doubt that this is a serious problem. I can get all of the music I want already P2P, but I bought 6 songs so far. And I plan on buying more. I think the true test is to see if they keep making money.
iTunes Sharing
Come add your Share.
Right now its reachable at http://www.shareitunes.com. Add your own share or just browse other people's iTunes hosted music collections.
Come add your Share.
Right now its reachable at http://www.shareitunes.com. Add your own share or just browse other people's iTunes hosted music collections.
I'm a windows user, so i'm not quite sure if i getting the story right, as i have no access to test it.
What i gather is you can stream the songs from your friends comp to yours, then copy them, and use toast to burn them, making them your songs. Is this right?
Normally you can play your song on up to 3 computers, does this method circumvent this?
If so this is troubling to me, as a window user i was looking forward to itunes and itunes store coming to windows. If you mac guys have firgured out how to turn itunes into kazaa over there, i think the chances of itunes store making it to windows is poor.
Even thou apple said this streams are not for public use. Those posting there IP addresses shareitunes.com have now opened them self up to public access. All you need know is someone to write a program, to collect what songs are available on which IP address, and you have created itunes kazaa for mac's.
I am probably reading to much into it, but was really looking forward to itunes on windows, and i'm pretty sure if your all successful in turning this into a music sharing program, itunes will never make it windows.
What i gather is you can stream the songs from your friends comp to yours, then copy them, and use toast to burn them, making them your songs. Is this right?
Normally you can play your song on up to 3 computers, does this method circumvent this?
If so this is troubling to me, as a window user i was looking forward to itunes and itunes store coming to windows. If you mac guys have firgured out how to turn itunes into kazaa over there, i think the chances of itunes store making it to windows is poor.
Even thou apple said this streams are not for public use. Those posting there IP addresses shareitunes.com have now opened them self up to public access. All you need know is someone to write a program, to collect what songs are available on which IP address, and you have created itunes kazaa for mac's.
I am probably reading to much into it, but was really looking forward to itunes on windows, and i'm pretty sure if your all successful in turning this into a music sharing program, itunes will never make it windows.