iTunes Store- The Next AOL

[sartajc]

iTunes has been getting hit by multiple problems in the last few months- NBC, Amazon Store, RadioHead, Companies making their own methods, DRM problems, etc. Do you think that the iTunes era is done being on top and will now start to fall?

I am a musician, and a mac lover, an iTunes lover, but I HATE THE iTunes sSore with a passion. Its DRM and control is disgusting. I want to OWN the music I BUY. Thats why I buy CD's or I use the new Amazon store. Because I grew up with a Napster/Kazaa/Limewire mentality of having complete control over my music.

After seeing Radioheads idea, i was so happy that I actually spent money on their album they were giving away for free because I believe they deserve money for their great idea. Radiohead is the future of major mainstream artists selling music. And DRM free like Amazon is the future of music.

Yes i know there is a an 'iTunes Plus'. but it sucks. Not only does it embed your private info like your name into the song, it also costs 1.29 a pop! what the heck is up with that.

If Apple doesn't stop being a control freak over the music industry, it will inevitably fall when people notice that there are better alternative. Just like how AOL fell when people realized that there were better alternatives.

I hope Jobs isnt stupid enough to make that mistake.

 

[Blubbert]

Do you honestly think that DRM is Apple's choice? DRM is a protection mechanism that the record companies wanted in order to prevent their music from being shared once it was bought. Apple devised the FairPlay DRM to apease the record companies. BTW, i don think that DRM is any sellers choice, because they limit the market in which a product can be sold, they can malfunction... All Apple is doing is bending over backwards for the record companies because they cannot do business without them.

 

[CashGap]

"Do you honestly think that DRM is Apple's choice?"

Good question.

" I grew up with a Napster/Kazaa/Limewire mentality"

There's your answer

There is a segment that thinks Apple promotes DRM, Apple sets high prices, etc. Bottom line, it's the MUSICIANS. They signed with labels and gave over their rights to the music. Then the labels milk the music, which THEY own, for all it's work.

 

[aristobrat]

And DRM free like Amazon is the future of music.

And what sucks about "the future of music" (the ability to sell DRM-free music like Amazon) is that the future is still totally controlled by the labels, not the companies selling the music.

Do you have any doubt that Apple would NOT love to sell you DRM-free songs for $.99 (like Amazon)?

Do you have any doubt that if the labels weren't pissed at Apple (and trying to create iTunes competition by giving the competition something that it's not giving to Apple -- talk about a disadvantage), the labels would even be selling DRM-free music?

Just like how AOL fell when people realized that there were better alternatives.

IMO, AOL fell because it continued to do "business as usual" despite the better alternatives. A smarter company would have adapted their business strategy to better address the competition.

Better alternatives didn't kill AOL. Doing nothing did.

 

[clevin]

Do you honestly think that DRM is Apple's choice?

good question, all amazon mp3 are DRM free (I think), so does apple have a choice or not?

 

[Foxglove9]

Wow I didn't realize all Amazon downloads were DRM free. I wonder if it is hurting Apple at all.

DRM doesn't really bother me, at least it hasn't been a problem yet.

 

[aristobrat]

good question, all amazon mp3 are DRM free (I think), so does apple have a choice or not?

I don't see where Apple has a choice.

It's the labels that decide to whom they make their DRM-free content available to, and as the press has pointed out, Universal specifically decided NOT to let Apple resell their DRM-free stuff during this trial where they're letting Amazon resell it.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I believe iTunes and the iPods undoing is going to be from Apples Fairplay DRM. Apple refusing to allow the DRM to work on anything other than than the iPod and the iPod refusing to use any DRM other than Fairplay is going to cause people to start leaving.
I do not like the fact that anything I get off the iTMS only works on my iPod. I do not like the fact that apple pulls that lock in stunt and that is a huge reason why I do not buy much off iTMS any more unless I get the stuff for free for some promotion. I like choices while i think the iPod is great when I replace it in the next year there might be something out there I like better

 

[sartajc]

Whether or not Apple has the ability to go DRM free is the not the issue. If they can't, then its their problem. i want DRM-Free music. No ifs, thens, or buts. If they can't use their power to do so yet WalMart and Amazon can, then its their problem.

 

[Blubbert]

good question, all amazon mp3 are DRM free (I think), so does apple have a choice or not?

Amazon does not include DRM in a sense that it encrypts the very songs, like Apple does, but there still exist restrictions. The contract you must accept when downloading songs off Amazon states that nobody but you can listen to that song, and you also cannot burn it on a CD. That means that you cannot share the ipod with anyone if you play that song you downloaded off Amazon.

I believe iTunes and the iPods undoing is going to be from Apples Fairplay DRM. Apple refusing to allow the DRM to work on anything other than than the iPod and the iPod refusing to use any DRM other than Fairplay is going to cause people to start leaving.
I do not like the fact that anything I get off the iTMS only works on my iPod. I do not like the fact that apple pulls that lock in stunt and that is a huge reason why I do not buy much off iTMS any more unless I get the stuff for free for some promotion. I like choices while i think the iPod is great when I replace it in the next year there might be something out there I like better

And all the music sites that store and sell their music in DRM'd WMA format somehow have the better idea? The songs you buy on Microsoft's store will not work on your iPod.

 

[SilentPanda]

The contract you must accept when downloading songs off Amazon states that nobody but you can listen to that song, and you also cannot burn it on a CD. That means that you cannot share the ipod with anyone if you play that song you downloaded off Amazon.

According to Amazon's FAQ:

Can I burn my MP3 files on a CD and listen to it on my CD player?

Yes. MP3 files downloaded from the Amazon MP3 store should be compatible with most CD burning software or CD and DVD players capable of reading MP3 audio files.

I'm also pretty sure it's okay for other people to listen to the songs, you just can't give the songs to other people.

 

[aristobrat]

Apple refusing to allow the DRM to work on anything other than than the iPod and the iPod refusing to use any DRM other than Fairplay is going to cause people to start leaving.

But wouldn't the flip side of that be that if DRM actually worked as conveniently as you described above (on different devices by different manufacturers), then the record labels would have no reason to ever consider releasing DRM-free music?

Whether or not Apple has the ability to go DRM free is the not the issue.

Actually, I think the *only* issue here is whether or not this experiment the record labels are doing with DRM-free sales via Amazon and Wal-Mart turns out to be worth their while. Guess we'll find out in February or whenever it's over.

 

[mac 2005]

How does DRM prevent someone from "owning" the music? Any song purchased from iTMS can be used on multiple devices and recorded multiple times to a CD. An iTMS song is far more portable than a song on a cassette tape, an LP or a CD. I've never heard anyone complain about not owning a song purchased on any of those formats, but, really, how much more difficult is to digitize a song from a cassette or an LP and play it on a different device? An iTMS song, meanwhile, can be played on the iPod, a computer and a CD player, all within one's rights as the "owner" of the song.

 

[Blubbert]

I'm also pretty sure it's okay for other people to listen to the songs, you just can't give the songs to other people.

I was wrong on the no burning part, but this article details what exactly is forbidden, that being sharing, lending and broadcasting of music bought on Amazon.

 

[netdog]

An iTMS song, meanwhile, can be played on the iPod, a computer and a CD player, all within one's rights as the "owner" of the song.

Actually, it can be played on up to 5 different computers, synced to any iPod that syncs to one of those computers, and can be play through up to 5 AppleTVs. And yes, you can burn as many CDs as you want and play them on any CD player. I don't feel very restricted either. I just wish that they sounded a little better.

 

[Consultant]

I believe iTunes and the iPods undoing is going to be from Apples Fairplay DRM. Apple refusing to allow the DRM to work on anything other than than the iPod and the iPod refusing to use any DRM other than Fairplay is going to cause people to start leaving.
I do not like the fact that anything I get off the iTMS only works on my iPod. I do not like the fact that apple pulls that lock in stunt and that is a huge reason why I do not buy much off iTMS any more unless I get the stuff for free for some promotion. I like choices while i think the iPod is great when I replace it in the next year there might be something out there I like better

You are WRONG. iTunes protected format -> CD = no DRM, usable on all machines.

 

[clevin]

Amazon does not include DRM in a sense that it encrypts the very songs, like Apple does, but there still exist restrictions. The contract you must accept when downloading songs off Amazon states that nobody but you can listen to that song, and you also cannot burn it on a CD. That means that you cannot share the ipod with anyone if you play that song you downloaded off Amazon.

thanks for the technical differences, I just am not sure if human in this world live in that style.

How does DRM prevent someone from "owning" the music? Any song purchased from iTMS can be used on multiple devices and recorded multiple times to a CD. An iTMS song is far more portable than a song on a cassette tape, an LP or a CD. I've never heard anyone complain about not owning a song purchased on any of those formats, but, really, how much more difficult is to digitize a song from a cassette or an LP and play it on a different device? An iTMS song, meanwhile, can be played on the iPod, a computer and a CD player, all within one's rights as the "owner" of the song.

if they only live in apple's world (i.e., every piece of music player+computers are from apple), then its not bad at all, problem is, there are major amount of people don't have themselves all apple-fied.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

You are WRONG. iTunes protected format -> CD = no DRM, usable on all machines.

Good grief I get sick of that argument That is a work around but not an acceptable solution. it Degrades the quality song. Recompressing the data degrades it more than it already was.

Why I think it will hurt apple is as more companies enter the market and several of them heavy hitters apple refusing to open up will hurt them and will be the undoing. Refusing to allow anything other than Fairplay DRM work on the iPod, and fairplay only working on the iPod sucks. Plus apple will break anything that even attempts to get around that.

 

[Blubbert]

Good grief I get sick of that argument That is a work around but not an acceptable solution. it Degrades the quality song. Recompressing the data degrades it more than it already was.

Why I think it will hurt apple is as more companies enter the market and several of them heavy hitters apple refusing to open up will hurt them and will be the undoing. Refusing to allow anything other than Fairplay DRM work on the iPod, and fairplay only working on the iPod sucks. Plus apple will break anything that even attempts to get around that.

Of course Apple will break everything that gets around the DRM, all manufacturers do. BTW, i still dont understand your point here. From what im reading you are blaming Apple for creating a proprietary DRM format and employing it to work on iPods, and any other software that supports, and runs, Quicktime? DRM is the way of the music industry, which is a monolithic structure that i hope falls soon. They are hopelessly stuck behind the times, and for that they will eventually pay. Apple facilitating DRM for now atleast shows proof that people will actually buy legal music. When DRM free becomes the norm, i am sure Apple will be on the forefront of the movement. Hell, Steve Jobs already campaigned against it and iTunes was the first major online service selling DRM free music.

 

[aristobrat]

Refusing to allow anything other than Fairplay DRM work on the iPod, and fairplay only working on the iPod sucks.

So should Apple open up FairPlay, or should the music industry start selling DRM-free music?

Which would you rather have?

 

[aristobrat]

When DRM free becomes the norm, i am sure Apple will be on the forefront of the movement. Hell, Steve Jobs already campaigned against it and iTunes was the first major online service selling DRM free music.

I hope so, but with quotes like this, who knows. I could almost see Steve Jobs killing the iTunes Store to spite the record companies, who are still making a huge amount of profit from it.

The split with record labels--Apple takes 29 cents of the 99 cents--"is indecent," Vivendi (Universal) CEO Jean-Bernard Levy told reporters in September. "Our contracts give too good a share to Apple."

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_43/b4055048.htm?chan=search

 

[BornAgainMac]

Well does DRM-Free Amazon music have your identification (of any kind) hidden in the mp3 files?

 

[Drumjim85]

iTunes has been getting hit by multiple problems in the last few months- NBC, Amazon Store, RadioHead, Companies making their own methods, DRM problems, etc. Do you think that the iTunes era is done being on top and will now start to fall?

I am a musician, and a mac lover, an iTunes lover, but I HATE THE iTunes sSore with a passion. Its DRM and control is disgusting. I want to OWN the music I BUY. Thats why I buy CD's or I use the new Amazon store. Because I grew up with a Napster/Kazaa/Limewire mentality of having complete control over my music.

After seeing Radioheads idea, i was so happy that I actually spent money on their album they were giving away for free because I believe they deserve money for their great idea. Radiohead is the future of major mainstream artists selling music. And DRM free like Amazon is the future of music.

Yes i know there is a an 'iTunes Plus'. but it sucks. Not only does it embed your private info like your name into the song, it also costs 1.29 a pop! what the heck is up with that.

If Apple doesn't stop being a control freak over the music industry, it will inevitably fall when people notice that there are better alternative. Just like how AOL fell when people realized that there were better alternatives.

I hope Jobs isnt stupid enough to make that mistake.

Jobs said a while back that if the industry would allow it, he would %100 support DRM Free music... buts it not up to him or Apple ... but what ever the Labels decide.... you don't need to be mad at apple... you need to be mad at the big 4!!!! ... but give it some time, they're falling pretty fast

 

[Blubbert]

I hope so, but with quotes like this, who knows. I could almost see Steve Jobs killing the iTunes Store to spite the record companies, who are still making a huge amount of profit from it.


http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_43/b4055048.htm?chan=search

Knowing record companies, they are unhappy when even a single cent leaves their non deserving pockets. The major problem with record companies is their terrible business model. They are willing to simply throw money at a band, but if the band does not make it, they are left with a huge bill. This type of thinking not only prevents certain bands from hitting it big time, it also makes all the bands sound the same...

 

[jstad]

IMO, AOL fell because it continued to do "business as usual" despite the better alternatives. A smarter company would have adapted their business strategy to better address the competition.

Better alternatives didn't kill AOL. Doing nothing did.

Radiohead's idea is fantastic, but it has yet to be seen if the record companies are even noticing. Another thing to think about is with Radiohead's business model (aka selling music themsevles) they are making 10x as much $$$ with album sales then they did previously (since record companies keep close to 85cents on the dollar when it comes to album sales).