iTV: How Apple will screw themselves out of an Insanely Great product

[Raid]

I'm sure the networks that Apple courted so hard to sell their TV shows in the iTS would just love Tivo and streaming technology in the iTV box.

Agreed! With the selling of TV shows (and now movies) on iTunes I think Jobs clearly wants to avoid giving us an Apple branded PVR/TiVO option. No apple PVR will protect the iTunes TV/Movie revenue generation, but I think it's also more than that. Apple want's seamless integration with it's hub philosopy, so I bet it is more of a question of providing the user with something that takes minimal configuration.

While this iTV thing is a promising development, I don't think it's quite ready for 'prime-time' (in it's current incarnation) for several reasons:

1. Lack of input ports indicate it's not a PVR, so video content must already exist on the computer.
2. iTunes Movies have 'Near DVD quality'; why not DVD quality... why not HD DVD quality?
3. I'm not sure if you can 'rip' your previously purchased DVD's to iTunes, if you can't, you can't play them through iTV. (please let me know if you can!)

Basically if this comes out with no PVR, and no DVD quality movies to watch, and I have to buy the movies I like again, then I'll pass this time around and wait for something better to come along.

 

[balamw]

Agreed! With the selling of TV shows (and now movies) on iTunes I think Jobs clearly wants to avoid giving us an Apple branded PVR/TiVO option.

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/21/1352216

Looks like Accenture has found that downloadable TV is what users actually want...

B

 

[aristobrat]

Lack of input ports indicate it's not a PVR, so video content must already exist on the computer.

I'm fine with that. The DVD attached to my TV finally croaked, so I ended up connecting the Mac mini I use as a little server. Figured I'd use it + Front Row and see how it worked as a DVD replacement. I LOVE IT, especially the Movie Trailers and iTunes parts of Front Row! Would love to throw one of these in each of the bedrooms, but I'm not going to fork out $599 per TV for a mini.

iTunes Movies have 'Near DVD quality'; why not DVD quality... why not HD DVD quality?

Wonder if it has anything to do with bandwidth? (i.e. DVD quality would take hours longer for most to download?)

What impressed me is that the "near DVD quality" of the new iTS movies is better than the "digital quality" of the pay-per-view movies I can get from DirecTV.

 

[balamw]

What impressed me is that the "near DVD quality" of the new iTS movies is better than the "digital quality" of the pay-per-view movies I can get from DirecTV.

FWIW standard definition for DTV is ~480x480 and for lost of channels they are over compressing the signals. Hopefully this will improve with the MPEG-4 shift...

B

 

[TEG]

So then don't you find it a little odd that there isn't currently one single product anywhere on the market that can record from all of those sources like the iTV would have to?

Is it a cost factor that prevents TiVo and others from putting all of those different tuners and unscramblers in one box?

If TiVo (the gods of DVR) just last week released a box that for the first time ever can record digital cable directly, I'm really doubting that we'll see anything soon from Apple that does that.

When I said QAM, that is the format between the Cable/Satellite Box and the TV. The thing preventing the recording of Digital Cable or Satellite is the key to the scrambled signal. The TiVo HD allows for the inclusion of a Cable Card, which allows the TiVo to receive the updated keys from the Cable company via the Coax signal.

A Series 1 or 2 TiVo has the ability to record from all the sources (NTSC, ATSC, or QAM, except the Series 2 DT, which only allows for ATSC, which is what analog cable is, and QAM.)

Actually the TiVo HD can record from any source, except satellite (since they removed the IR Blaster and Serial Control from the box) but the cost associated with just the cable card components is astronomical. Even the HDTVs with Cable Card slots are more expensive than their card-less brethren, once the CC slots are more common, prices will drop, just like they have for HDTVs.

Also, if you haven't notice, the iTV only has outputs (and Component Output + HDMI) so I seriously doubt that Apple is looking into any sort of DVR/HMR/PVR system, especially since iTunes sells all those shows. I expect the iTV to do exactly what Steve said, no more, no less.

TEG

 

[aristobrat]

I expect the iTV to do exactly what Steve said, no more, no less.

Oh, I totally agree with that. I just don't understand why some folks make it sound like it'd be a piece of cake for Apple to include a DVR feature.

 

[plinkoman]

I have a vast library of .avi's (half a terabyte) and every single one of them plays in front row. that means they will play on iTV. you're argument doesn't make sense; it doesn't matter if iTunes will play it; as long as it can play in quicktime and is in your movies folder; it works; and one simple codec upgrade is all you need for that.

as for the rest of your argument; it's supposed to be a video streamer; nothing more, nothing less. people can buy a dvr if they want; people can buy an iTV if they want; they can buy both if they want, but for the majority of people who would only really need/want one or the other; their not forced into paying for something they're not going to use.

 

[mattthemutt]

I have a vast library of .avi's (half a terabyte) and every single one of them plays in front row. that means they will play on iTV. you're argument doesn't make sense; it doesn't matter if iTunes will play it; as long as it can play in quicktime and is in your movies folder; it works; and one simple codec upgrade is all you need for that.

as for the rest of your argument; it's supposed to be a video streamer; nothing more, nothing less. people can buy a dvr if they want; people can buy an iTV if they want; they can buy both if they want, but for the majority of people who would only really need/want one or the other; their not forced into paying for something they're not going to use.

That's quite the AVI library.

In terms of AVI codecs, I have never been able to get Quicktime to play AVIs correctly, no matter what codecs I find.

 

[Counterfit]

That's quite the AVI library.

In terms of AVI codecs, I have never been able to get Quicktime to play AVIs correctly, no matter what codecs I find.

Well, you need to find out what codec the video needs, and also make sure it isn't using anything unsupported in the container (like a subtitle track).

 

[balamw]

I have a vast library of .avi's (half a terabyte) and every single one of them plays in front row. that means they will play on iTV.

I wouldn't count those chickens if I were you. Those AVIs are not compatible with the iPod, so why should they be compatible with iTV? I would assume MPEG-4 and H.264 in MP4, M4V or MOV containers will be the only things supported, but I could definitely be wrong. In fact I woudl be glad to be wrong

B

 

[plinkoman]

I wouldn't count those chickens if I were you. Those AVIs are not compatible with the iPod, so why should they be compatible with iTV? I would assume MPEG-4 and H.264 in MP4, M4V or MOV containers will be the only things supported, but I could definitely be wrong. In fact I woudl be glad to be wrong

B

well, I'm operating under the assumption that it will be playing on the computer's hardware and streamed to the iTV (like in airport express), rather than played from the iTV's own hardware. thus, if I can play it in quicktime on my Mac, it will work on iTV.

but who knows how it will work. it's still a long way off and we barely know anything about it.

 

[balamw]

well, I'm operating under the assumption that it will be playing on the computer's hardware and streamed to the iTV (like in airport express), rather than played from the iTV's own hardware. thus, if I can play it in quicktime on my Mac, it will work on iTV.

but who knows how it will work. it's still a long way off and we barely know anything about it.

I agree that we're in a "who knows" phase, but I doubt it'll send video in a way similar to Airport Express.

AirTunes decodes the audio on the computer, recompresses it in Apple Lossless and streams it to the AirPort Express. The bandwitdh requirements would be horrendous if they chose to send uncompressed video and the CPU requirements on the PC/Mac would be horrendous to recompress every video on the fly. So I sincerely doubt that it'll support AVI in the way you think.

But who knows.

B

 

[plinkoman]

I agree that we're in a "who knows" phase, but I doubt it'll send video in a way similar to Airport Express.

AirTunes decodes the audio on the computer, recompresses it in Apple Lossless and streams it to the AirPort Express. The bandwitdh requirements would be horrendous if they chose to send uncompressed video and the CPU requirements on the PC/Mac would be horrendous to recompress every video on the fly. So I sincerely doubt that it'll support AVI in the way you think.

But who knows.

B

it is re-compressed for airport?

isn't the bandwidth more than enough to send sound through? and video for that matter?