I've decided to get serious about photography, camera recommendations?

[art gardiner]

iBookG4User -

I've really been toying with the idea of getting into photography lately and I've decided that I'd like to get serious about it. When I go to college I've decided to minor in photography and I need to start building up my portfolio. I can't do that with my camera that I have right now (a crappy Aiptek camcorder that I got for $100), so I'd like to buy a dSLR so I can get some nice shots. I should be getting about $550 within the month and when I get my paycheck on the 1st, I can add about $100 to the dSLR fund. So that'll be about $650 if I wait until August 1st to buy.

From what I've researched so far, I've found that the Nikon D40 seems to be a really good camera that is about my price range. But, I thought I'd come to MacRumors to get some expert opinions on it. I'm not set on one brand or another, I just want to get the best picture for the price. The $650 will have to cover both the camera and the lenses, so a Camera that comes with good lenses would be best. Thanks in advance for help!

Just a couple of quick questions:

What kind of a school are you wanting to apply to? i.e. - university, trade... academic, or art?
You state that you want to "minor" in Photography (ok, I'll put that one aside), what do you want to major in?
What do you want to be able to do with your portfolio?

and finally,

Are you planning on registering for the fall semester?

If you're planning to attend an Art school/university; use your portfolio to gain admittance into school; and register for the fall semester - you might want to talk to the Admin Office of the schools you are wanting to check out. If you are only going to minor in photography, then you won't need a photographers portfolio; however, you will need the correct portfolio per your major's discipline, and the format will very from school to school depending on what you want to study.

That said, it sounds like you are really new to photography, and might do better to take a class at one of your local/county adult education centers. The cost is extremely reasonable, and are usually lead by accomplished photographers. And, (before you drop your head in disgust) take a traditional film course - you will actually learn the basic principles of photography faster; develop skills and discipline that you would otherwise miss by going straight to digital (read - learning visualization, patience; and purpose); as well as, most Art Colleges still require the use of film in a perspective photography student's portfolio.

So, while you might think that you would be waisting your time, and money by going with a traditional "wet" photography course, if your end goal is to be admitted to an Art school as either a Fine-Art Photographer, or a Photojournalist - you will actually be doing what is required. Used film bodies and lens are going for a song right now on e-Bay, KEH, Adorama, and B&H Photo. With $500.00 you will be able to purchase a very nice 35mm setup (any camera manufacture will do), a 50mm (normal) lens, and still have $250 - $300 left over for film, filters, paper, and classes. Once you're into it (and if you still find yourself strapped for cash), you can always sell your camera body, and/or lens and probably make back what you paid for it.

If nothing else, don't buy a bunch of camera equipment right off the bat. It will take you a while to master the camera body itself, and longer before you really know the strengths and weakness of your first lens. The simpler the setup, the faster you will learn to use your equipment to their fullest potential - the better your photography results will be.

HTH,

Art

 

[ChrisA]

[On your budget I would not go for a new DSRL. If you are REALLY serious about photography go for a film camera and load it with black and white film. You can buy the film in 100 foot bulk rools for "way cheap" A really nice Nikon film SLR will set you back about $100. If you do take a photography class this as almost certainly what they will require you to have -- black and white film.

Get a camera like maybe an old Nikromat and a 35mm f/2.0 lens for about $100 then pick up a 105mm. Put the negatives in a film scanner. For final quality will blow away any DSLR.

If you must have a new electronic camera AND you are serious about this AND you have a very limited budget skip the D40. The D40 will not work with some of Nikon's best lenses.
Your best buy right now might be a used D100. If you are serious about photography what you should care about are lenses and the D100 has the best lens options for someone with a limited budget. The D100 can use all those 20 year old Nikon manual lenses like the 105mm above. this lens is absolutly outstanding and yu can pick one up for maybe $80 now.

You problem is that all the good new lenses are wel over you budget and you are going to want two or three of them.

Don't worry about the body. They don't mater. figureout what lenses you want then go buy a body to fit. You don't need all those automatic features if youintend to read and take classes

Not enough can be said about this. Nikon cameras feel so ridiculously good in your hands compared to Canons, until you get into the Canon 1 series bodies, where it's sort of a tie.

Go back a few years and this is REALLY true. If you are shopping for a full manual film camera. And you should be if you are a art/photo student then back n the days before automatic focus no one seriously debated Nikon vs. Canon. Every wanted a Nikon but few could afford one. Canon has caught up and prices have fallen (relative to buyer's income) all around.

The other thing that is different is that today's Nikons can still to some extent interchange parts with older manual Nikons. So if you buy an older Nikon you can painlessly upgrade if you do some planning.

Canon seems to jump on technology faster than Nikon. They tend to have "everything" first. Nikon seems to be very conservative makes changes slowly and works on the user controls. Not saying which is best just that the companies are different.

 

[bocomo]

Sorry Dude, but you're taking this way too fast. You shouldn't really expect to buy your camera in the first week of August, and then have images good enough to show as a portfolio to colleges in the middle of August. Showing a bad portfolio cn actually hurt you.

And also, most schools are moving away from film. I am taking some classes at UCLA this summer, and when I got here I was told that UCLA actually tore down their darkroom in favor of building a digital lab. I think a lot of schools are going this way.

here's a great response. don't worry too much about which camera, etc. just get a dSLR so you will be adjusting aperture and shutter speed and manually focusing and don't worry about it. that's a REALLY tight schedule for putting together a serious portfolio. are the schools you are looking at really that serious about undergrad admission portfolios? if you can meet with faculty and demonstrate the desire and the ability to talk about photography and what you want to do, i believe you will be just fine.

as for the people talking about film - sorry, that's mostly in medium and large format classes. digital really has taken hold (at least at the three schools i have been teaching in the past few years)

best of luck

 

[iBookG4user]

What kind of a school are you wanting to apply to? i.e. - university, trade... academic, or art?

I'm applying to an art university that does photography, Graphic Design, and various other things like that.

You state that you want to "minor" in Photography (ok, I'll put that one aside), what do you want to major in?

I'm going to major in Graphic Design, but I've always had an interest in photography, so I thought it would make a great minor. I would be happy becoming a photographer or a graphic designer.

What do you want to be able to do with your portfolio?

I'd really like to build it up, I only have a couple good drawings in there. But I'd also like some good photographs as well.

Are you planning on registering for the fall semester?

No, I'm going to be a Senior in high school this fall. The interview is to see what it is like and get critiques on my portfolio.

I really do not want to get into film photography this late, I would much rather get a dSLR and use it for a while than get a film camera and have to sell it off.

 

[creator2456]

I thought it would make a great minor.

I am majoring in GD and I have to say that you are correct on this. When a designer can do more on his own (design, photograph, etc.) and do them well, the more work they will get.

I'd really like to build it up, I only have a couple good drawings in there. But I'd also like some good photographs as well.

Building your portfolio is always a good idea, but it doesn't have to focus on your primary media. I go to UIC and every art student must complete a first year program before declaring a major and submiting a portfolio for review. As I said, I am majoring in GD but GD only made up about 25% of my portfolio with photography ('wet' prints and digital prints from negatives) being another 25%. The rest was everything from simple 2 minute sketches to video work I had done.

I really do not want to get into film photography this late.

At least buy a b&w photo textbook to study up on...I have about 3 years experience with b&w (little bit of color) film photography and I am still a little daunted by switching my focus over to digital.

 

[bocomo]

I am majoring in GD and I have to say that you are correct on this. When a designer can do more on his own (design, photograph, etc.) and do them well, the more work they will get.

careful - i "minored" in photo as a graphic design major many years ago. i changed my major to photo after skipping classes to stay in the darkroom!

At least buy a b&w photo textbook to study up on...I have about 3 years experience with b&w (little bit of color) film photography and I am still a little daunted by switching my focus over to digital.

my fav photo books are digital photography by ben long and photography by london, upton, et al

can't go wrong with those two in your arsenal

 

[art gardiner]

iBookG4User,

Ok, knowing what your plans are is essential in getting any meaningful assistance. As another poster eluded to, GD is a "mixed medium" and knowing how to properly expose/compose a photograph to showcase your designs "vision" will be a vital part of your key to success as a graphic designer.

Most Art schools still require every incoming freshman to take an "Intro to B&W Photography" course as a part of their core curriculum. While over 90% of these students have never shot film in their life prior to taking this course, those that had were essential in assisting their fellow classmates with getting around in the darkroom, developing film, prints, etc. (This can be helpful in acclimating you to your new environment.) While there are those that feel "film" is dead with the exception of LF work, they are often the same photographers that are not very fluid with strobes - the devil is in the details, and "digital" (as great an asset as it is) still lacks the dynamic range of film.

If nothing else, please do yourself a favor and go to your local library and pick up a copy of Ansel Adams' series; The Camera, The Negative, and The Print. Each will delve a little deeper into the "Zone System", which aids the photographer in understanding how to analyze any given scene - how to take a photo of something black, and make it come out black, and vice-versa with white, etc. This technique will translate to color photography as well, and even further when it comes to digital. While most digital camera's "Auto" white balance can usually be in the right ballpark, the more variations of light sources (i.e. - taking a photograph inside a room lit with florescent lights, a window, and/or varying strong colors laying about the subject you're about to shoot), the more you will need to know about custom white balance, gels, and filters - all in order to make your whites look white, and keep your other colors from looking muddy and heavily saturated with digital noise.

Ok, sorry about the photo lesson. But back on topic - as for getting a usable portfolio together, go to each of the Universities web sites and see what their portfolio requirements are prior to even talking to them. They will tell you what is expected of each discipline, and provide you with dates of their annual portfolio reviews. Give contact information about the staff, and each department head, and usually let you know if there is any flex in their portfolio submission guidelines - direct entry formulas, etc.

As you are planning to attend school on the east coast and live on the west, you might want to stop by a local community college that offers degree plans in graphic design, as well as photography. The instructors will usually be up on any camera/photography clubs in the area, which will be a great source for making contacts, and play with various brands of camera gear. Several people have already posted their preference for one camera system over another. While each brand has their strong suits, it really comes down to two things: what fits your intended subject matter the best; and what brand/model feels the most intuitive to use. Each is a compromise, and YOU are the only one that can answer them. Unfortunately, this takes both time, and access to the pleathra of equipment out on the market today - the good news, you have the time to get it accomplished with out having to take shortcuts, but if I were you I would get started asap.

Talk to people (face-to-face), go to a local camera store (or pawn shop) and try to work with as many different brands, and models (with as many different bodies & lens) as you can. The camera stores might have equipment that you can rent over the weekend (for a savings - but bring one of your parents with you as they will most likely require a full deposit to cover the cost of replacement should anything happen); pawn shops often will tend to specialize in one area of the used market, and you should be able to find one that has a large inventory of quality cameras and lens; and the camera/photography clubs will offer you the chance to meet others in your area with similar interests, as well as the oppurtunity to get to work with some of their gear, their experience, and maybe the chance to assist with them.

What ever you choose to do, I think that you will find your fellow photographers to be very helpful when it comes to assisting you with their experience, and talent. Everyone started somewhere, sometime, and most of us not only remember those that helped us along the way, but are eagger to repay the favor.

Good luck, and let me know if I can be of any help.

Art

 

[QuantumLo0p]

Find a good pro or semi-pro camera shop. Check out body sizes, how they fit your hand is critical. Tell the techies what you want to shoot.

Nikon or Canon, you will be fine with either.

For me the clear choice is Nikon, period.

 

[ChrisA]

Find a good pro or semi-pro camera shop. Check out body sizes, how they fit your hand is critical.

I used to give same advice but now I've decided not to say this.

Back in the days of manual SLRs you might buy an SLR body and expect to shoot with it for decades. I still have some decades old SLR bodies. But the new DSLRs are so "ephemeral" that they are more like buying a brick of film. A DSLR is a consumable item now. As much as we'd like to think our $800 little box will last for decades, it won't. No one wants a 5 or 6 year old DSLR. In 20 years this will change after the technology becomes mature but now in 2007 in is new and all new technologies change fast.

DSLR bodies are more like computers, nobody expects a computer to last for decades, not that it will break bt that you just will not want to use that long becasue the new ones are better, faster and cheaper

However "SLR Sytems" do last for decades or even for a lifetime.
When you buy into an SLR system, either Canon, Nikon or Pentax you really can't change. Well you can change but it's like spouses, changing them out is neither pleasant nor inexpensive best to get a system you can keep.

So, My opinion now is NOT to choose a brand or system of SLR based on something as ephemeral as which entry-level body fits your hand.

 

[iBookG4user]

Ok, after a lot of looking around and looking at reviews I've narrowed my choice of camera to two models, the Nikon D40 and the Canon Digital Rebel XT (not XTi). I will barely be about to sqeeze the Canon into my budget, but I can manage to. The problem is that I have a 2GB SD card laying around that I'd be able to put into the Nikon D40 and use, although I'd have to go out and buy a 2GB Compact Flash card. This puts the Canon over $100 more than the Nikon D40. Which would you recommend?

 

[M@lew]

Decide if you want Canon or Nikon lenses.

 

[netdog]

If you can scrape together the money for a D40x, it is a much better camera.

Personally, I would recommend a Lumix L1 (like a Leica Digilux 3) which can be had for less than $1100, but I understand that is outside your budget by a long way. Still, you might want to take a look at what the glass on these cameras produces. Once you buy into a system, you are pretty much married to it and I think it is far better to buy something with a truly great piece of glass from the start. Glass is fairly mature whereas if you take up photography seriously, expect to replace your camera back in the next few years.

 

[netdog]

Also, start reading DP Review and pay particular attention to the forums there. Like the forums here, they are an excellent resource for beginners and pros alike.

 

[M@lew]

If you can scrape together the money for a D40x, it is a much better camera.

Not really. Just more megapixels than the D40 and better iso. Otherwise same camera.

 

[netdog]

Not really. Just more megapixels than the D40 and better iso. Otherwise same camera.

Okay, much better was an exaggeration. I stand corrected.

It does also have slightly faster continuous shooting as well. Not a big deal, but another plus.

This from DP Review's conclusion after thoroughly reviewing the D40x:

So in conclusion, the D40X really is just as good as the D40, with the added benefit of a little bit more resolution and slightly faster continuous shooting. But is it enough to take the pole position as the ultimate compact ten megapixel DSLR? That's harder to say, image quality-wise it's a dead heat with the EOS 400D (except at high sensitivities); it's quicker and more comfortable to use, but very slightly less featured, especially if you consider lens compatibility. It would be hard to recommend one over the other and the answer would depend solely on your preferences (I'm calling it a draw).

Read the full review here.

 

[kwajo.com]

Decide if you want Canon or Nikon lenses.

Or Pentax, or Olympus, or Sony, or Leica, et cetera. et cetera....


Don't leave out other systems, Nikon/Canon don't rule the world

 

[M@lew]

Or Pentax, or Olympus, or Sony, or Leica, et cetera. et cetera....


Don't leave out other systems, Nikon/Canon don't rule the world

Yeah but he asked about the D40 or Rebel XT. That's Nikon or Canon.

 

[OreoCookie]

Decide if you want Canon or Nikon lenses.

No. Decide which camera body feels better in your hand and which user interface you prefer.

 

[OreoCookie]

Yeah but he asked about the D40 or Rebel XT. That's Nikon or Canon.

Giving alternatives is never a bad thing.
(And that's coming from a Nikonian )

 

[iBookG4user]

Giving alternatives is never a bad thing.
(And that's coming from a Nikonian )

Yeah, but I already looked at the other dSLRs in my price range and I narrowed it down to either the Canon Digital Rebel XT or the Nikon D40.

 

[OreoCookie]

Yeah, but I already looked at the other dSLRs in my price range and I narrowed it down to either the Canon Digital Rebel XT or the Nikon D40.

Good
I think the only advice I can give you is to try out both of them, hold them in your hands and see which one feels more natural. Reading reviews won't help anymore as both cameras are good.

Personally, I strongly dislike Canon's UI which is the sole reason I would never buy one. I've held the D40X in my hands and I really liked it. It can do 90-95 % of what the D80 can do (with the exception of lens compatibility) at a much lower price point. If the D40's viewfinder were bigger, I probably couldn't have justified the expense of a D80.

 

[failsafe1]

I have found that at the same level of features, and price it comes down to what you like for feel and handling. The optics on both cameras will be great. You can look at resolution tests over at a site like dpreview if you would feel better. Someone mentioned going to a camera store and trying both out. That is the only way to go.

 

[terriyaki]

No. Decide which camera body feels better in your hand and which user interface you prefer.

I agree with this to an extent. However, if someone is really going to be serious about photography they have to realize that they're buying into a lens system. Glass outlasts bodies. I'd make my choice based on a lens system first and foremost and then look at the other things like user interface next.

 

[OreoCookie]

I agree with this to an extent. However, if someone is really going to be serious about photography they have to realize that they're buying into a lens system. Glass outlasts bodies. I'd make my choice based on a lens system first and foremost and then look at the other things like user interface next.

The differences between professional lenses are subtle and much smaller than most people think, it's much more important that you make `the shot'. If you dislike the way the camera body feels in your hand, you'll probably not make the shot. Don't forget that we're talking about entry-level cameras here: the investment (compared to professional lenses) is minimal. Even if the OP invests money into lenses, he'll probably not tie himself down to a particular system as lenses don't lose a lot of value.

 

[iBookG4user]

After doing quite a bit more research I decided that once I get my paycheck, I'll be buying a new Canon Digital Rebel XTi. I found a great deal, although it's slightly out of my price range, I can manage to get enough for it. Thanks for everyone's help . I'm sure I'll have some more questions for you once I get the camera.