iPad Pro John Gruber made some interesting points about iPad

[Retskrad]

Gruber was a guest on MacRumors podcast and they had an interesting discussion about iPad’s state in 2022. Gruber says iPhone is the most important product Apple sells and they can’t afford to introduce features that are half baked a not well-thought out like Stage Manager. Every new feature must be have rock solid use case and implementation. As a result, Apple allocates all of their attention to iOS while the iPadOS team picks up the bread crumbs. Mac is a “finished“ product and doesn’t need much attention.

I agree with him. Stage Manager shows that the iPad is not a priority to the company. Apple basically treats the iPad as a platform with a constant BETA sticker. They still have no idea how to define it in relation to Mac and iPad. Mouse and keyboard? Never. Actually, sure why not. M2 chip? What we do with it? Actually, who cares. Just put it there. It really does seem like Apple relies on people with disposable income to buy expensive iPad’s and accessories to fund the R&D…

 

[stevemiller]

It’s hard to speak in absolutes because everyone’s needs are different and I’m sure iPads are the perfect fit for some.

But broad strokes I remember upon introduction Jobs saying to make a new category of device, it needed to be way better at some things than either a phone or laptop to justify its existence, and then went on to demo a combination of form factor, functionality, and price point to make that argument.

But now that is more muddled than ever. They put the hardware of a Mac in it, they gradually scaled it up and pitch it with keyboard and external display accessories to make it adopt the form factor of a mac, but it has an os and apps experience that still more closely resembles a phone. And arguably worse versions of desktop functionality awkwardly bolted on to boot.

And the fact that they’re selling 6 different variations with often weird slight differences really suggests they have no clear vision for the product category. (Although phones and laptops are suffering a bit of this bloated lineup mentality, too)

 

[fwmireault]

Mac is a “finished“ product and doesn’t need much attention

I agree, but I would say that it is also partly because the macOS user base is much more conservative regarding changes to the UI than the average user of iPadOS/iOS, many of them are not interested at all in redesigns and making macOS more iOS-like. The redesign of the preferences panel this summer is a good example of that.

They still have no idea how to define it in relation to Mac and iPad

100% agree, iPad as a tablet is still very distinct from Mac, but as a computer replacement, we are still far from it. In the past years, they blurred the line between the two products, but to this very day, it's still considered as a bad laptop replacement, both because of the poor software that runs it and because most iPad Air and Pros with an Apple keyboard will cost more than the base MBA or MBP.

Apple opened this door of branding the iPad as a laptop replacement, now we're stuck with this confusing marketing strategy. I don't see Apple ever merging iPad and Mac (both on the hardware and software sides), but they will need to clean the lineup at some point.

 

[outlawarth]

I agree, but I would say that it is also partly because the macOS user base is much more conservative regarding changes to the UI than the average user of iPadOS/iOS, many of them are not interested at all in redesigns and making macOS more iOS-like. The redesign of the preferences panel this summer is a good example of that.

100% agree, iPad as a tablet is still very distinct from Mac, but as a computer replacement, we are still far from it. In the past years, they blurred the line between the two products, but to this very day, it's still considered as a bad laptop replacement, both because of the poor software that runs it and because most iPad Air and Pros with an Apple keyboard will cost more than the base MBA or MBP.

Apple opened this door of branding the iPad as a laptop replacement, now we're stuck with this confusing marketing strategy. I don't see Apple ever merging iPad and Mac (both on the hardware and software sides), but they will need to clean the lineup at some point.

I would be careful in making generalizations. If it’s such a bad laptop replacement then how do you explain people like me? I essentially run my whole business off of a 12.9 iPad and my laptop is collecting dust. I’m not saying it’s for everyone but I bet there’s a lot of people using their iPads as primary devices.

 

[GMShadow]

Mac is a “finished“ product and doesn’t need much attention.

No one was saying this as recently as mid 2019, lol.

It's more like Apple still struggles to walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. They *have* improved in that area (see back when Leopard was delayed for months because of work on the iPhone) but they're clearly struggling to execute meaningfully on software for five different platforms and all the supporting architecture. macOS also was ignored and stagnated under the hood for years - a lot of the work since 2017 has been to try to correct that (removing OpenGL, Carbon, HFS+, etc).

They do need to pivot more to iPadOS though.

 

[Student of Life]

Part of it is the elephant in the room. Making the iPad into a computer would mean a loss of sales of computers. The hardware in theory should be able to run iPad and OSX. Just add that option when attached to a Magic Keyboard and problem solved. This is a case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too on Apple's part.
It should not be forgotten that when you add the price of the Magic Keyboard and pencil you have a price point higher than an Air and depending on the the model Air/Pro and size 11/12.9 the total price rivals the MacBook Pro prices which is ridiculous.

 

[Retskrad]

delete

 

[blkjedi954]

It’s hard to speak in absolutes because everyone’s needs are different and I’m sure iPads are the perfect fit for some.

But broad strokes I remember upon introduction Jobs saying to make a new category of device, it needed to be way better at some things than either a phone or laptop to justify its existence, and then went on to demo a combination of form factor, functionality, and price point to make that argument.

But now that is more muddled than ever. They put the hardware of a Mac in it, they gradually scaled it up and pitch it with keyboard and external display accessories to make it adopt the form factor of a mac, but it has an os and apps experience that still more closely resembles a phone. And arguably worse versions of desktop functionality awkwardly bolted on to boot.

And the fact that they’re selling 6 different variations with often weird slight differences really suggests they have no clear vision for the product category. (Although phones and laptops are suffering a bit of this bloated lineup mentality, too)

True and I miss my 4S too!

 

[JPack]

It’s no different than Slowfies or App Clips on iPhone. Or Continuity Camera on Mac. Every team has hits and misses.

The main issue is Apple software releases are an annual cadence. You’ll get half baked features due to that. Look at how bad iOS 13 was.

 

[hippopotamusglorypig]

I'm not sure I would go as far as to describe iPhone features as "rock solid" in comparison to iPad features, but you can clearly see the dynamic they describe in things like home screen widgets being delayed by one OS version last year and the same with lock screen customization this generation.

They likely created iPadOS not to give special attention to the iPad, but to streamline the work in developing iOS.

Edit: Stage Manager not working that well probably just reflects a lot of their stuff not working that well lately, and likely doesn't reveal some hidden insight into the internal ranking by prioritization of Apple operating systems.

 

[CharlesShaw]

From this armchair, it appears that Apple is more than eager to improve iPhone sales by providing iPhone users with tempting and useful hardware to use for their social media creation and consumption addictions.

My concern is that the iPad hardware upgrade trajectory appears to be all about power users and not about providing tempting consumption features to the models that are not pro featured and pro priced. Why do we need to spend twice the price to get quad speakers that sound good watching YouTube videos?

 

[TheRealAlex]

Everything has a Use case scenario. If no one has read Steve’s Jobs book.
heck we don’t use Motorcycles as Garbage trucks. Sure they can pick up garbage just not alot.

You don’t daily drive a Lamborghini to work bit you could.

I prefer to look at iPad, and Mac, and iPhone as Tools in a toolbox.

sometimes I need my iPhone quick fast but can do everything, Other times I’ll use my MacBook Pro. Or if I just need to websurf and shop on Amazon.com from my Lazyboy recliner I’ll use my iPad Pro.

I don’t really case what internal team inside Apple is doing. The iPad Pro is Amazing Period.

I don’t stop driving my Tesla Model Y because the Best Tesla Team is working on the Roadster or the Semi.

 

[callihan_44]

the ipad is the best tablet out there imo, it is a luxury item for me almost like a large iphone...I cant be without a phone or laptop, I need a desktop os to complete my tasks...the ipad does about 90% of what I want but if I were forced to give something up the ipad would be the first to go ...

 

[sgtaylor5]

I would be careful in making generalizations. If it’s such a bad laptop replacement then how do you explain people like me? I essentially run my whole business off of a 12.9 iPad and my laptop is collecting dust. I’m not saying it’s for everyone but I bet there’s a lot of people using their iPads as primary devices.

That's fascinating. The problem for me and my small business is finding a good accounting program if I switch platforms. I've used Corona from DesignersDomain and I used to use QuickBooks Mac 2016; what do you use?

My use is light enough, I could use a good iPad instead of my MBA.

You could DM me if you don't want to say publicly.

 

[Soccerrick10]

I haven’t used it, but hear good things about Small Business Accounting. As a small business owner, my needs are very simple and I run my business from my iPad Pro 12.9. I have a M1 Mac Mini and a Dell Laptop “just in case”. The mini is now mostly a media server. The Dell almost never gets turned on.

My M1 iPad Pro has been all over the world with me in the 1.5 years I’ve owned it as is used MANY hours EVERY day.

 

[ian87w]

Yup.
We can simply look at how much revenue the iPhone brings to Apple. Basically Apple is an iPhone company mainly. It's their main cash cow. As such, they will be most conservative with it. Thus I said we won't see foldable iPhone anytime soon. Anything foldable will go to the iPad or Mac first as a test market.

The Mac, despite its maturity, imo is currently getting some of the best innovation, aka Apple Silicon. Although that seemed to wither down very quickly. The M1 was a huge bang, the M1 Pro/Max/Ultra carried that, but now what. Pretty much only the Macbook Air gets a refresh with the M2 (I won't consider the 13" Macbook Pro with years-old design to be a refresh). Mac mini? Nothing. Heck, the M1 iMac probably was the Mac that got a huge redesign, but then Apple stops almost immediately. They didn't even bother putting an M2 in it. And of course, no AS Mac Pro and Apple seems to be behind their own schedule. I mean sure, you can put the mini as a step child just like usual, but the iMac is Apple's face for consumer desktop, and not doing anything more to it seems... odd. It is worse when greed comes into play, as Apple is neutering the M2 Macbook Air, their own best selling laptop, just to improve their margins.

Greed is more apparent on the iPad. In Jobs era, the iPad has quite a clear positioning. It is supposed to be the "computer" for the masses, as such, it sits below the Macs in terms of pricing. A basic affordable "computer." Majority of the SKUs are comfortably below the Mac in price points. Consumers have clear distinctions on what to get for their money. But then greed takes over, and Apple wanted to sell $1000 iPads, just how they managed to sell $1000 iPhones. Thus they are building that up with the iPad Pros. As a result, upgrades are pushed towards these models. The original spirit of the iPad is gone. What's left of the basic iPad becomes just that cheap tablet for kids, just like the typical Android tablets. Of course, things would probably be okay if Apple has a vision on what they want to do with the higher end iPad and iPad Pros. But nope. The best thing they can do now is copied Microsoft Surface Pro, turning the iPads into some Frankenstein laptop hybrid with expensive keyboards, because of greed and no vision. Instead of making the best product, the current Apple's focus is simply making products that can rake in as much money through expensive upgrades and accessories. The old Apple showed iPads as tablets first and foremost. The new Apple showed iPads as Surface Pro clones, because Apple wants people to buy the keyboards as well.

 

[PauloSera]

Apple opened this door of branding the iPad as a laptop replacement, now we're stuck with this confusing marketing strategy.

Just hold on a second there. It was whiny internet users that INSISTED that the tablet has to somehow replace the laptop/desktop computer, because real life is apparently a sci-fi movie set 2000 years in the future.

Apple casually leaned on that concept for marketing (aka sales) purposes, and now it's Apple's fault for assigning this "role" to iPad?

FYI: iPad has been replacing laptops since 2010, because an enormous amount of people used to buy laptops because that was their only option. Now an iPad does everything they used to do on the laptop and more, so they don't need one. This of course does not apply to the people who actually use PCs/Macs to their potential.

The only problem here are the people insisting iPad needs to be more than iPad. I say give these people a dual boot option and let macOS run on iPad Pro, albeit with keyboard and mouse as a requirement in that mode, and be done with this incessant need to invent something that doesn't make any sense.

 

[Tyler O'Bannon]

Agree. The iPad is in a strange place for sure, and it definitely doesn’t get the attention that Mac and iPhone do. It’s just caught in the middle.

Now, the hardware is pretty darn excellent, but the last several years have been utterly disappointing of what’s its OS has become.

I thought the introduction of iPadOS was going to be a huge fundamental change and really speed up development progress on the iPad.

It did not.

 

[russell_314]

I think he’s just saying things to say them. It’s like we have no rumors so let’s just make something up to talk about.

As to the iPad I think the issue is people want it to do something it’s not designed for. A laptop replacement doesn’t mean it does everything exactly the same as a laptop. It can do the same taaks or some of them but it’s going to do them in a different way. I think where people get frustrated is they want to do the things the same way as they did them on their laptop and that’s not always going to work.

I also don’t think it’s fair to say any Apple product is a finished product in the sense of its not going to evolve. Just because the Mac has received some significant improvements recently doesn’t mean Apple isn’t working on future significant improvements.

 

[russell_314]

Agree. The iPad is in a strange place for sure, and it definitely doesn’t get the attention that Mac and iPhone do. It’s just caught in the middle.

Now, the hardware is pretty darn excellent, but the last several years have been utterly disappointing of what’s its OS has become.

I thought the introduction of iPadOS was going to be a huge fundamental change and really speed up development progress on the iPad.

It did not.

I think your disappointment was based on your expectations and not reality. iPadOS has improved over previous versions. Maybe not to what you expected it, but in reality it has improved.

I believe Apple is to blame for part of peoples expectations that the iPad should be something better than it is. Apple advertised the iPad as the future of computing, but doesn’t do nearly enough work to improve it. I think people got false expectations from the “What is a computer?” advertising campaign.

 

[Atomic1977]

I personally think people forget that the iPad is a device made to be much more portable than a laptop but yet isn’t meant to be a computer computer In all technical terms.

 

[nvmls]

I would be careful in making generalizations. If it’s such a bad laptop replacement then how do you explain people like me? I essentially run my whole business off of a 12.9 iPad and my laptop is collecting dust. I’m not saying it’s for everyone but I bet there’s a lot of people using their iPads as primary devices.

Sure, you can run spreadsheets & send emails from your phone too, if thats enough to run your business thats great, but the OS is still greatly gimped vs a desktop one.

A tablet will never replace a full-fledged desktop OS, obviously YMMV but running a business with less functionality doesn't make it an objective "replacement" per se, because even if you don't need all the desktop OS features, the product is still greatly inferior to it's replacement ideal. Like you could draw/take notes more efficiently than a desktop/laptop, but that's about it, the rest of the editing work is broader in macOS apps, you may do with simple ones in iPad and thats fine.

After all these years, they've been playing catch up with macOS and look where we are at. Most people requests, pro apps, peripherals, file system, terminal, real multi-display support, etc, are already vastly superior in macOS.

Compared to a MBA for example, It's thicker & heavier with keyboard, less ergonomic, gimped OS, wasted hardware on pro models & more expensive. Even for portability "work", like walking around with it to assist customers like an Apple store employee would do, or showing a menu or business information through it, gets annoying quick to hold for long periods, look at it on flat surface or on your flat lap and it fatigues your neck in no time.

A poor attempt to reinvent an inferior wheel.

 

[fwmireault]

Apple casually leaned on that concept for marketing (aka sales) purposes, and now it's Apple's fault for assigning this "role" to iPad?

Hum yes? Apple should definitely not implement new features solely because some people want them, I believe that this new marketing strategy was calculated by Apple and was not arbitrary. They are the ones who blurred the line between Mac and iPad, nobody forced them to.

I say give these people a dual boot option and let macOS run on iPad Pro, albeit with keyboard and mouse as a requirement in that mode, and be done with this incessant need to invent something that doesn't make any sense.

This honestly would be a perfect solution. I agree with you that some people buy an iPad expecting that it will do anything a laptop could do, and this dual booting would bring that a lot closer than what we have now with the half-baked iPadOS

 

[Unregistered 4U]

He’s just saying “I as a Mac person am confused by the iPad. Primarily, because, as a Mac person, I can’t wrap my head around a computing device that’s too different from that.”

However, everyday there are millions upon millions of folks who’s FIRST computing device will be some touch device, iPhone or iPad and the Mac will be as foreign to them as a Mac user sitting at the command prompt of an Apple II wondering what to do next.

 

[swingerofbirch]

I remember John Gruber grousing that Windows wasn't a better competitor to the Mac because it made Apple not have any motivation to improve the Mac.

But even if it is a finished product in terms of features it needs tons of maintenance that it never gets.

And I don't even see how it's a finished product. I think it was *more* finished in the past.

Think of the days Apple shipped apps with Macs like iDVD and compare that to apps like News or Apple Music.

(BTW, I think iDVD was peak Apple. Not just peak Mac, but peak Apple)