iPad Pro John Gruber made some interesting points about iPad

[ian87w]

We don't need but some want. What is wrong in choice? They gave the iPad a Mac chip.

Should have branded the M1/M2 as A14X or A15X on the iPad Pro/Air then if they will not give it macOS or mac like features.

The old Apple had a clear vision. Remember back before the original iPad was out, people were demanding macs with touch screen, to the point someone repurposed a MacBook Pro with a touch panel. But under Jobs, Apple ignored those noise since he had his own vision, thus the iPad was born.

Today’s Apple now seemed to have lost that vision. Instead of having a clear vision on what the iPad should be, now they’re trying to Frankenstein it into a Surface Pro clone, because without vision, you start listening to the noise.

The lack of vision was even clearer in software. In the old Apple, Jobs wanted to make a computer for everyone. He realized he needed software for it, and we had amazing software like iMovie, giving near pro level capabilities for consumers. For iOS, Jobs even pushed to have iPhoto and iMovie redesigned to have touch interface and be consumer friendly.

Fast forward today, they are not even capable doing their own pro tools that they simply refer people to use 3rd party software like Da Vinci resolve for their own Pro ipads . Not saying it’s not a good software, but Apple is also a software company and they do have Final Cut. It kinda questioned Apple's software chop.

 

[MandiMac]

Oh, the good olˋ debate about "iPad must be a laptop/computer replacement". Remember when the iPad was introduced back then? The thing it set out to replace was netbooks. And how many of these do you see nowadays? You're welcome.

 

[Abazigal]

The lack of vision was even clearer in software. In the old Apple, Jobs wanted to make a computer for everyone. He realized he needed software for it, and we had amazing software like iMovie, giving near pro level capabilities for consumers. For iOS, Jobs even pushed to have iPhoto and iMovie redesigned to have touch interface and be consumer friendly.

The issue seems less of a lack of vision, and more that the ipad simply feels complete. Maybe it just wasn't meant to be anything more than a giant iPod running iOS, but you had people constantly trying to push the boundaries of what they could do on an iPad, and Apple probably felt compelled to address those needs. Some, like the Apple Pencil and giving the iPad Pro a usb-c port made sense. Others, like stage manager, less so. Drag and Drop looks good on paper, but I never got the hang of it.

Fast forward today, they are not even capable doing their own pro tools that they simply refer people to use 3rd party software like Da Vinci resolve for their own Pro ipads . Not saying it’s not a good software, but Apple is also a software company and they do have Final Cut. It kinda questioned Apple's software chop.

I can see arguments both for and against this.

It made sense to have FCP on the Mac when Adobe's own tools were barely optimised for the platform. Do we really want FCP for the iPad now when you already have problems attracting developers to develop pro-level software for the iPad, and then you go on to introduce your own video-editing software which is only going to act as additional competition for apps like Lumafusion?

If we evaluate this based solely on need, how many people actually "need" FCP for the iPad Pro and can't have their video-editing software needs met by other third party apps?

 

[BigDO]

Oh, the good olˋ debate about "iPad must be a laptop/computer replacement". Remember when the iPad was introduced back then? The thing it set out to replace was netbooks. And how many of these do you see nowadays? You're welcome.

Lol I just remembered netbooks. What loathsome little turds they were

 

[Feyl]

The main issue is Apple software releases are an annual cadence.

I don't think that's the issue at all. Apple used to bring solid major releases every year and delight us with big features that made sense. Now all the "major" releases are filled with very minor or not well thought features. I think Apple needs to work harder, not skipping annual releases.

 

[JM]

Speaking as a fiscal Conservative, I appreciate Apple’s disciplined approach to product development. A thousand noses for every yes. It just works.

Noses? 😂

 

[ian87w]

The issue seems less of a lack of vision, and more that the ipad simply feels complete. Maybe it just wasn't meant to be anything more than a giant iPod running iOS, but you had people constantly trying to push the boundaries of what they could do on an iPad, and Apple probably felt compelled to address those needs. Some, like the Apple Pencil and giving the iPad Pro a usb-c port made sense. Others, like stage manager, less so. Drag and Drop looks good on paper, but I never got the hang of it.


I can see arguments both for and against this.

It made sense to have FCP on the Mac when Adobe's own tools were barely optimised for the platform. Do we really want FCP for the iPad now when you already have problems attracting developers to develop pro-level software for the iPad, and then you go on to introduce your own video-editing software which is only going to act as additional competition for apps like Lumafusion?

If we evaluate this based solely on need, how many people actually "need" FCP for the iPad Pro and can't have their video-editing software needs met by other third party apps?

The old Apple doesn't think it that way. Apple was a software company that happened to make hardware, as such they made some of the best software for the platform, from FCP, Aperture, etc. Clearly the software is no longer a focus in today's Apple, seeing the bug-fested OSes themselves. The prolonged revenue from selling iphones seemingly has skewed Apple's own vision and focus.

I mean in the past, Jobs frequently showed demos of any upgrades to the plethora of Apple's software, inckuding iLife and iWorks. Now, Apple never even mention nor show iWorks apps anymore.

And people wonder why Siri remains mediocre. 😂

 

[Ludatyk]

I mean in the past, Jobs frequently showed demos of any upgrades to the plethora of Apple's software, inckuding iLife and iWorks. Now, Apple never even mention nor show iWorks apps anymore.

Tbf, I think Apple have evolved from Jobs era where they tended to demo software upgrades as you mentioned to portraying more of what their hardware can do especially in the chip era we are in.

Apple go so far as to showing off their chip designs and what can be done instead of showcasing software features, I think eventually we will see FCP on the iPad platform... but when I see Apple promoting products like LumaFusion and DaVinci then what is the hurry to put it on the iPad platform.

If anything, I look at it as if Apple would rather see developers succeed.

 

[gpat]

It’s hard to speak in absolutes because everyone’s needs are different and I’m sure iPads are the perfect fit for some.

But broad strokes I remember upon introduction Jobs saying to make a new category of device, it needed to be way better at some things than either a phone or laptop to justify its existence, and then went on to demo a combination of form factor, functionality, and price point to make that argument.

But now that is more muddled than ever. They put the hardware of a Mac in it, they gradually scaled it up and pitch it with keyboard and external display accessories to make it adopt the form factor of a mac, but it has an os and apps experience that still more closely resembles a phone. And arguably worse versions of desktop functionality awkwardly bolted on to boot.

And the fact that they’re selling 6 different variations with often weird slight differences really suggests they have no clear vision for the product category. (Although phones and laptops are suffering a bit of this bloated lineup mentality, too)

Ironically, there is just one field of usage at which the iPad is "way better" than a Mac or iPhone, and that would be the Apple Pencil applications, the one thing loathed by Steve.

 

[SpaceJello]

There has been a keyboard for the iPad since 2017.

Yes, but you didn’t read what I wrote.

As you quoted me, I said the latest iPad keyboard. Unlike the Magic Keyboard we have now, the iPad keyboard, functions and makes the iPad look like a Surface.

The kickstand in the back with the detachable keyboard in the NEW iPad keyboard shows Apple really don’t care anymore. They are not even trying to differentiate itself from Microsoft. At least the older keyboards tried to be different.

 

[SpaceJello]

We don't need but some want. What is wrong in choice? They gave the iPad a Mac chip.

Should have branded the M1/M2 as A14X or A15X on the iPad Pro/Air then if they will not give it macOS or mac like features.

Under Jobs, you would never have that choice. Just because some wants it doesn’t mean we need to put it in. I want a microwave and a washing machine in my car, but will they ever put that in?

From all the countless Apple interviews and business books analyzing Apple’s “way”of success and doing things, how many times have we heard that saying “no” is what Apple does best?

As I said, MacOS and iPadOS are 2 different operating systems using 2 different UI language. One is with a mouse and keyboard, the other with your fingers primarily.

By your chip branding reasoning, it is like demanding the violin and cello to function and sound the same because they used the same type of wood and strings.

 

[SpaceJello]

Part of the Mac functionality is desktop apps and sideloading. Apple hasn't even ported FCP or xCode and sideloading is dead on iPad.

HECK, every single Apple product with a screen had a native calculator but the iPad. The iPod touch, the iPhone, the Mac and even the Apple Watch got one.

Part of the Mac functionality is desktop class apps and side loading.

As I wrote in another thread, if you think Apple hasn’t prepped for FCP’s eventual arrival to iPads, you are wrong.

If you are a seasoned FCP user, you would remember the loud cries of many when Apple revealed FCP X and its new UI. It was a drastic departure and massive hoards vowed to dump FCP for Adobe Premier and such.

But the irony is that they can’t see the forest from the trees.

If you compare iMovie on the iPad with FCP on the desktop, they have very similar UI with big thick timelines that can easily be altered with something larger than a mouse cursor… perhaps a finger? I wonder…

Whether that day will come we don’t know yet. It depends on so many factors: processor, price, materials, the market, people’s willingness to accept Mac desktop class apps on iPad will not look the same etc.

***

As for the iPad calculator, there are plenty of third parties who have build many basic to scientific calculators on the iPad. What is wrong with those?

 

[SpaceJello]

If you look at most iPad marketing materials, eg the iPad 10, it is presented with the keyboard. It's clearly intentional (thus my deduction of greed) as Apple really wants you to buy that expensive keyboard. So they are no longer interested in making the best product, they are just interested in selling expensive accessories, and went as far as cutting corners on the actual products just to sell extra stuff (eg. $10 lightning to USB-C adapter).

I don’t doubt there is a large element of greed, but sometimes I wonder if the inclusion of the keyboard in marketing materials is Apple’s acknowledgement that the public has largely stuck to their old paradigms and insists anything but with a keyboard cannot be “productive”.

Microsoft’s Surface didn’t help either. In clinging to Windows, they knew that was the only way Surfaces will have even a slightest chance of making a dent in the tablet area.

But overall yes, Cook, while being a great production and large volume shipment manager, has largely focused on production tactics to increase earnings. Whether they are mass production of the same processor for everything, to dividing a piece of tech up and charging a premium piece by piece, Apple isn’t focused on creating the “best”product for the end user anymore.
.

 

[darngooddesign]

So they are no longer interested in making the best product, they are just interested in selling expensive accessories, and went as far as cutting corners on the actual products just to sell extra stuff (eg. $10 lightning to USB-C adapter).

New Pencils come with the adapter so no extra stuff there.

Apple could have made a USB-C Pencil 1, but you can spend $10 to use your old Pencil 1 instead of $100 for a USB-C Pencil 1 or $130 for a Pencil 2 (which isn't compatible with the landscape camera anyway).

So if Apple cut corners to sell you extra stuff, they did it in the least profitable way possible.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

I honestly wouldn’t have an iPhone any longer if it wasn’t for the other products in Apple’s ecosystem. If Apple’s other products were to go wayside in terms of quality and reliability, I think that would have a noticeable effect on iPhone sales.

 

[Abazigal]

The old Apple doesn't think it that way. Apple was a software company that happened to make hardware, as such they made some of the best software for the platform, from FCP, Aperture, etc. Clearly the software is no longer a focus in today's Apple, seeing the bug-fested OSes themselves. The prolonged revenue from selling iphones seemingly has skewed Apple's own vision and focus.

I mean in the past, Jobs frequently showed demos of any upgrades to the plethora of Apple's software, inckuding iLife and iWorks. Now, Apple never even mention nor show iWorks apps anymore.

And people wonder why Siri remains mediocre.

My take on that is Apple simply doesn’t see the need for it anymore.

iWorks made sense at a time when there were very few developers making apps for their platform. Microsoft, under Steve Ballmer, withheld office from the iPad until 2015 or 2016. So during that time, there was incentive to create their own apps at a time when no one else would.

Today, the iOS platform has all these apps (thanks to its market share and because windows phone doesn’t exist anymore) so Apple possibly feels there’s little reason to continue working on said apps because they have already achieved their goals.

Apple won the platform wars.

Apple did what made sense for it back then. Just as it’s doing what makes sense for it right now.

 

[exoticSpice]

As for the iPad calculator, there are plenty of third parties who have build many basic to scientific calculators on the iPad. What is wrong with those?

well we can say that for for every app that Apple made can't we?

 

[exoticSpice]

As you quoted me, I said the latest iPad keyboard. Unlike the Magic Keyboard we have now, the iPad keyboard, functions and makes the iPad look like a Surface.

The kickstand in the back with the detachable keyboard in the NEW iPad keyboard shows Apple really don’t care anymore. They are not even trying to differentiate itself from Microsoft. At least the older keyboards tried to be different.

Apple has to change and it did

 

[SpaceJello]

Apple has to change and it did

They don’t though… that’s your opinion only.

 

[exoticSpice]

They don’t though… that’s your opinion only.

The touch only iPad vision ended when they gave the iPad a physical keyboard and Trackpad/mouse support. The "latest" keyboard barely made any difference. Tablets existed like that as well like the Tab S6/7/8 from samsung.

 

[SpaceJello]

The touch only iPad vision ended when they gave the iPad a physical keyboard and Trackpad/mouse support. The "latest" keyboard barely made any difference. Tablets existed like that as well like the Tab S6/7/8 from samsung.

Again, I am not sure if you read through my previous posts. I wasn’t debating whether the iPad has to be touch only or not.

It is a versatile piece of tech that you can choose to use a keyboard and/or pencil or not. There are a lot more peripherals. That is its beauty. A laptop has a keyboard glued to it regardless. iPads and tablets don’t.

And this fact needs to be acknowledged and respected when designing for it.

As for tablets existing before this generation of iPad and keyboard as the Samsung Tabs you referenced - I acknowledged that. In fact, this new keyboard design is near identical to the first Surface Microsoft made. It has the same kickstand and keyboard.

I agree with you. Actually I agree further than your point.

My point is that Apple at least tried initially to create their own vision of a tablet keyboard. Now? It basically has given up and copying other tablets.

It isn’t innovating or trying new ideas anymore. It is following the trends. That’s the problem with today’s Apple.

 

[exoticSpice]

My point is that Apple at least tried initially to create their own vision of a tablet keyboard. Now? It basically has given up and copying other tablets.

But the latest keyboard is only for the 10th gen iPad it uses no magets. I suspect the iPad Pro keyboard to still be the same as now but with function row keys.

 

[exoticSpice]

It isn’t innovating or trying new ideas anymore. It is following the trends. That’s the problem with today’s Apple.

In the Mac space Apple is clearly innovating. The iPad and iPhone space they suck.

 

[iPadified]

In the Mac space Apple is clearly innovating. The iPad and iPhone space they suck.

The only innovation in the Mac space is the usage on M SoCs, especially the Ultra. The M SoCs are not "Mac" chips, they are scaled iPhone chips. What else are you referring to in the Mac line?

6 different Macs lines
5 different iPhone lines
4 different iPad lines

Looks line that Mac line really needs some string cleaning as well and there are lots of produces missing such as the M1/M2 Pro iMac, affordable 27 inch iMac, M1/M2 Pro Mac mini and where is the AS MP??? Why does the 13 inch MBP exist???

 

[exoticSpice]

The M SoCs are not "Mac" chips, they are scaled iPhone chips. What else are you referring to in the Mac line?

Not really. The iPhone chips don't have Rosseta 2, Thunderbolt 4 and they only support 1 external monitor.

The only scaled up M chip that is based on A chip is the base M1/M2. The Pro, Max and Ultra are true Mac only chips. The codenames that Apple gives these Mac chips is 'T6xxx'.

The A chip and base M chip is 'T8xxx'. The base M1/M2 chip are A14X and A15X.

Looks line that Mac line really needs some string cleaning as well and there are lots of produces missing such as the M1/M2 Pro iMac, affordable 27 inch iMac, M1/M2 Pro Mac mini and where is the AS MP??? Why does the 13 inch MBP exist???

The Mac Transition is far from complete. The Mac Pro and the Intel Mac mini need updating. I would wait till Spring of 2024 for the Mac line up to make sense.