Just about had it with Macs.

[railthinner]

You might consider calling an electrician to check out the situation. The above mentioned suggestions are all good but you may end up masking what could be a dangerous situation in your place ..unless it is just the crt but, man, that seems like really unusual bad luck to have happen repeatedly.

 

[Cindy]

You might consider calling an electrician to check out the situation. The above mentioned suggestions are all good but you may end up masking what could be a dangerous situation in your place ..unless it is just the crt but, man, that seems like really unusual bad luck to have happen repeatedly.

We don't have any problems throughout the house with anything else tho. Don't know what an electrician could do - except charge an enormous fee. I could see that if there were other problems with other electrical items. I have a small tv plugged in next to my computer and absoutely no problems there.
It is a mystery.
I posted last winter on this before I took it in to have the dust blown out and someone suggested the CRT. But they also said it would be REAL expensive to have it fixed.
Whats strange is that when I wipe the computer down with a bounce sheet, it doesn't seem to zap or anything.

 

[Cindy]

This sounds like a high voltage transformer problem, which is very unlikely to have anything to do with the voltage on your line, so it probably can't be cured by line conditioning. All CRT displays are vulnerable to failure due to shorts within the flyback transformer, a critical component that is made notoriously cheaply these days. I've had several CRTs fail from precisely this cause; in fact, it's one big reason I won't own another CRT. You have exactly the symptoms I'd expect from a dying flyback. The good news is it can go on like that for months if not longer before it fails; the bad news is it could fail completely at any moment, and it won't be very inexpensive to replace (at least $100).

Bring it in to an Apple dealer. They should know what you need the instant they see the symptoms. Better yet, call them first and describe the problem just like you did here. If they can't diagnose the issue over the phone, then call another dealer. Dollars to doughnuts, they will replace your flyback transformer and you'll be back in business.

Is it just a fluke that when I wipe the computer down with a bounce sheet that it doesn't seem to zap?? It's not zapping all the time. It's very random. Sometimes at a session, it doesn't zap at all. Sometimes once or twice.
I was going to take the computer in to have them look at it but it is so random, I don't know if it will show or not. Plus, when I called, they said it would be at least a few weeks before they could get to it.
And they wanted to charge me 100.00 to just look at it. That seemed a bit much.
These are places that sell apple computers along with other stuff. I don't know if there's a difference between those type of places or if there's an actual Apple dealer....

 

[CanadaRAM]

I posted last winter on this before I took it in to have the dust blown out and someone suggested the CRT. But they also said it would be REAL expensive to have it fixed.

The eMac CRT and Analog board together cost US$499.. Haven't found the cost of the analog board alone.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Is it just a fluke that when I wipe the computer down with a bounce sheet that it doesn't seem to zap?? It's not zapping all the time. It's very random. Sometimes at a session, it doesn't zap at all. Sometimes once or twice.
I was going to take the computer in to have them look at it but it is so random, I don't know if it will show or not. Plus, when I called, they said it would be at least a few weeks before they could get to it.
And they wanted to charge me 100.00 to just look at it. That seemed a bit much.
These are places that sell apple computers along with other stuff. I don't know if there's a difference between those type of places or if there's an actual Apple dealer....

Since the symptoms are -- as you say -- so random, I wouldn't put much stock in the effects of cleaning. I'm basing my diagnoses strictly on the symptoms you describe, which to me just scream out "flyback transformer." If I'm right, the symptoms will get more regular over time, as the resin inside the transformer breaks down and coil shorts out more often. This is generally heat-related, so you probably will have the problem more when the Mac's been on for a while. It can go on like that for a long time, getting gradually worse -- until one day "Ffft!" (literally) the screen goes black and that's that.

If I were you, I'd call around to as many Apple dealers as you've got locally. Somebody ought to be kind enough (or want your business enough!) to not just give you the standard $100 just to talk to you answer.

BTW, I don't think replacing this part should require an entirely new analog board.

 

[Cindy]

Since the symptoms are -- as you say -- so random, I wouldn't put much stock in the effects of cleaning. I'm basing my diagnoses strictly on the symptoms you describe, which to me just scream out "flyback transformer." If I'm right, the symptoms will get more regular over time, as the resin inside the transformer breaks down and coil shorts out more often. This is generally heat-related, so you probably will have the problem more when the Mac's been on for a while. It can go on like that for a long time, getting gradually worse -- until one day "Ffft!" (literally) the screen goes black and that's that.

If I were you, I'd call around to as many Apple dealers as you've got locally. Somebody ought to be kind enough (or want your business enough!) to not just give you the standard $100 just to talk to you answer.

BTW, I don't think replacing this part should require an entirely new analog board.

Here's the weird thing -- right now the zapping only happens (if it does happen) when I first wake it up. Maybe in time it will start zapping when the computer has warmed up...
But that's what happened to my last computer - which was an old iMac. It finally zapped and the screen went black and that was the end of that. Then I bought this eMac.
I called Apple and got a very nice support person but he could only give me limited advice since I don't have "apple care" BUT, he basically told me everything he could on the phone. He had never heard of the "zapping" but said I should get it to an apple dealer and let them have a look at it.
I found an apple dealer that charges 60.00 to have a look. Better than 100.00. Now, if it is indeed the flyback transformer -- would they be able to see a problem by looking at it IE: looking directly at the transformer? Do they have some sort of testing ability to see if it's going bad?
You said earlier about the cost of replacing maybe around 100 bucks?
If I had to get the board and all costing around 500.00. I wouldn't do that.
And the next question.... how long will that last?? This one lasted barely 2 years.
I know this a repeated question but would a UPS protect the CRT in the future? I'm assuming CRT is the same thing as a flyback transformer?? Or are we talking two different items?
So would a UPS protect it or these?
You said you wouldn't own another CRT computer..... which one do you have?
If this indeed the problem I'm having with mine (first the iMac and now the eMac) - I'm not so sure I want another CRT computer either.
I love the Macs - they're easy, no virses etc.... but MAN!!! I can't afford a new computer every 2-3 years!
Thanks again for all your help and advice. I'm learning the hard way about all the workings etc. I'm NOT a computer person and have to rely on others for help. I only do basic stuff - emails and message boards. But I couldn't live without my computer. It's my lifeline
Cindy

 

[Cindy]

Side note here.... I called the place back that charges 60.00 to look at the computer and asked him about the cost of a CRT if that is what is needed. And he started to talk about certain problems on these machines. He talked about "zapping"!!! Before I brought it up. He said, unfortunately with the CRT machines, that's what goes out on them quite frequently.
Cost is about 300.00 for a new CRT.
So, I'll take it in and go from there. Right now I'll probably go for the repair costs (if that's what is wrong) and save up for a LCD machine or a portable.
You get what you pay for! The eMacs were a good price but if the CRT goes out in a couple of years, it's not that great of a price. I'd rather pay more and get a machine that won't have the troubles.
But, I didn't know at the time.
I'll keep you posted on what happens. They said they were out about 3 days on service.
I will have to pick a day on when to take it in.
Cindy

 

[IJ Reilly]

The flyback transformer is a coil that converts the 120 volts from your outlet into the much higher voltage required to drive your CRT. So it's just a part attached to the CRT (which by definition is just the picture tube). The part shouldn't be very expensive (with an emphasis on shouldn't) because they're dirt cheap to manufacture, but the sad reality is, these parts always cost a hell of a lot more than they ought to, because they generally have to be purchased directly from the manufacturer of the CRT, and they have no mercy. Then you've got labor, which is always an hour minimum. So if you get out for under $200, count yourself as lucky.

I think they can bench test a flyback transformer, but they may just let it run for a while and see what happens. A sharp technician will figure it out right away. Not many of them around, sadly.

BTW, did you try the words "flyback transformer" on the last guy you talked to (as in, "somebody told me it might be...")? I'd be interested to know their reaction.

Oh and I agree, they should last longer. But they don't always. If you've had two of these failures in a few years, I'd say you've been unlucky. I'm sure you're happy to hear that...

 

[skubish]

My suggestions.

1. Buy a UPS like others have recommended. Monster sucks in general. Computers are very sensitive to power variations.

2. Buy a humidifier. Its sounds possible that you live in a dry area. This could be causing problems with static. Especially since when you wipe you Mac with the bounce the zapping stops. (dust/static problem?)

3. Try a different outlet in the house.

 

[Cindy]

I did just that. I said, "someone told me that it could be the flyback transformer." The guy kind of hymed and hawed a bit. I got the feeling that he didn't know what that was because then he brought up the subject on the CRT.
And yeah, too bad they are not lasting longer. I don't remember how long my blue iMac lasted. I believe it was much longer than 2 years. This eMac just turned 2 in May.
The tech did say that they see alot of CRT machines come in with failing CRT's. They replace quite a few
We are going to try and sell our camper this year (since we have not used it in the last couple of years) and I will sock away some of that money towards a new computer. I don't really want to get a new one just yet, if I don't have to.
The next one will be an LCD!

 

[acedickson]

I think you've had some bad luck with the last two machines doing that. If the zapping just started on that machine I'd get it checked out ASAP. That way maybe you can get it fixed before any irrepairable damage is done.

 

[Leeloo the 5th]

Since your computer is two years old, as you stated in the first post, you can't get AppleCare anymore. However, if you were to get a new Mac, you could consider getting AppleCare within the first year.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I did just that. I said, "someone told me that it could be the flyback transformer." The guy kind of hymed and hawed a bit. I got the feeling that he didn't know what that was because then he brought up the subject on the CRT.
And yeah, too bad they are not lasting longer. I don't remember how long my blue iMac lasted. I believe it was much longer than 2 years. This eMac just turned 2 in May.
The tech did say that they see alot of CRT machines come in with failing CRT's. They replace quite a few
We are going to try and sell our camper this year (since we have not used it in the last couple of years) and I will sock away some of that money towards a new computer. I don't really want to get a new one just yet, if I don't have to.
The next one will be an LCD!

I second that motion. I gave up on CRT displays after having two of them fail within a year. You guessed, it: flyback transformers, in both cases. Neither one was more than three years old. Things can go wrong with LCDs, but overall they do seem more robust. And they draw a lot less power.

Anyhow, let us know how it works out.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I think you've had some bad luck with the last two machines doing that. If the zapping just started on that machine I'd get it checked out ASAP. That way maybe you can get it fixed before any irrepairable damage is done.

If the problem is the flyback transformer, as I suspect, then the damage is already done and there wasn't any way to prevent it. Allowing it to fail completely shouldn't endanger anything else, even though there's no reason to let it get that far.

 

[cubist]

You must keep that dust out of the room in which the computers live. Putting a sheet on top is no good. If you can see visible dust collecting on things day by day, your room is too dusty for electronic equipment of any kind. You must close the windows and possibly run an air filter.

All personal computers since IBM's stupid 1981 design have a bad cooling arrangement in which the fan blows out and there is no filter. Some servers are designed with filters; I think the Xserve may have filters, but it is very noisy and expensive. You'll still need a monitor. An LCD monitor might work better if you insist on working in a dusty environment. It will gradually fail, too, though, due to the lamps.

 

[IJ Reilly]

The environment would have to be positively filthy to be that much of a concern. IMO, no ordinary indoor environment is going to stress out modern electronics enough to cause them to fail -- unless it's very, very dirty or very hot. In which case, it's hardly ordinary.

We have cats. I have been finding cat hair in our computers for years, and none of them has ever failed. Unless dirt, dust (and cat hair) literally clogs up the fans and prevents the equipment from cooling properly, dust just isn't that much of an issue. IMO, of course.

 

[sushi]

I'm not sure I'll go with another apple for this reason. I really like the apples if they would last a little longer. Has anyone else had this happen to them??

Cindy,

I would guess that you are in the minority when it comes to the experience that you've had with your Macs.

I've known many who use their Macs for 5+ and in some cases 10+ years.

Personally, I have the following that still work fine:
- PowerBook 170 (Replaced the keyboard and mouse)
- TAM (Twentieth Anniversary Mac)
- 7600/120 (Upgraded with a Sonnet Tech G3/500)
- PowerMac G3 (Serves as my Print Server running LaserWriter Bridge 24/7 for the past 4 years). Purchased it used
- PowerMac G4/933 (Quicksilver) (Run 24/7 almost consistently since I purchased it)

Unfortunately, I've also known a couple of folks to have trouble with the eMacs. So maybe it depends on the model.

Sushi

 

[tangent23]

i had a second hand revB 233 imac that was chugging along nicely until about three years ago when it fizzled much as you described.. after doing my research i narrowed it down to the infamous flyback transformer [tho i haven't attempted to fix it or get it fixed so i'm not really sure].. but one thing i think contributed to it happening was the heat buildup where i had it sitting..

just thought i would add that in as something else to examine..