Just couldn't wait on the modular MacPro any longer.

[DearthnVader]

What benefits would one get from Vulkan?

I do enjoy gaming, and have been known to create apps that can take advantage of rendering.

Another thing is the lack of SLI/Crossfire, and no real control panel for GFX cards, but I can't really put that all on Apple.

Metal is fine for iDevices, but using it for the macOS is just another way Apple is trying to reinvent the wheel, and profit at every turn of it.

How many game titles are rendering in Metal?

Who is going to port Vulkan game titles to the macOS?

 

[William Payne]

I do enjoy gaming, and have been known to create apps that can take advantage of rendering.

Another thing is the lack of SLI/Crossfire, and no real control panel for GFX cards, but I can't really put that all on Apple.

Metal is fine for iDevices, but using it for the macOS is just another way Apple is trying to reinvent the wheel, and profit at every turn of it.

How many game titles are rendering in Metal?

Who is going to port Vulkan game titles to the macOS?

Ah ok. I can understand. Please excuse my naivety on the subject. I honestly couldn't care less about gaming on my Mac so it's a subject I lack knowledge in.

 

[Michael Scrip]

It has up to PCIe 3.0 x16 slots - why would it need T-Bolt 3's measly four lanes?

T-Bolt is a nice solution for laptop expansion - but not so useful in the commodity workstation world.

Exactly. Thunderbolt would be great for laptops... but not so much for desktop computers.

What all is Thunderbolt mostly used for these day? It seems to be used for... turning into other things:

Thunderbolt dock... gives you a bunch ports you need.

Thunderbolt eGPU enclosure... gives you a place to put a standard PCIe graphics card.

You're right... Thunderbolt wouldn't really do much on a desktop workstation PC since it already has those ports and PCIe slots.

Though one good use of Thunderbolt is those super-fast RAID enclosures... like these from G-Technology.

Then again... most computers on the planet don't have Thunderbolt... and apparently the world still turns using some other type of storage.

I agree with you... lack of Thunderbolt on non-Macs isn't as bad as people say it is.

Hell... I'd be curious to know how many Macs have never had a Thunderbolt cable plugged into them. Probably most of them, right?

 

[DearthnVader]

Ah ok. I can understand. Please excuse my naivety on the subject. I honestly couldn't care less about gaming on my Mac so it's a subject I lack knowledge in.

Well, if the target market of your work product does not require macOS market share, then I can see how you wouldn't care between Vulken and Metal.

I want to sell my work product to as many users as I can, if people are not buying as many Macs, then my market shrinks.

People don't want limited purpose general purpose computers, with a premium price tag. Apple is doing dumb things, hell they are soldering ram to the logic board, and making it so you can't even upgrade that.

It's a push to make Macs more iLike, thinking somehow Apple can make the two markets alike, but they are not, and they will never be. People accept the limits of Phones and Tablets, knowing they are not built for work, and the market is huge.

The PC market is apples and oranges compared to that, people expect to do a wide verity of things with a general purpose PC. Saying, well Macs run Final Cut just fine, and thats all anyone needs to do, now give use $6000+ every few years.

If Apple were pushing prices down, building systems like this, that would be one thing, however prices are going the other way, and true Pros are jumping ship.
[doublepost=1508841927][/doublepost]

Exactly. Thunderbolt would be great for laptops... but not so much for desktop computers.

What all is Thunderbolt mostly used for these day? It seems to be used for... turning into other things:

Thunderbolt dock... gives you a bunch ports you need.

Thunderbolt eGPU enclosure... gives you a place to put a standard PCIe graphics card.

You're right... Thunderbolt wouldn't really do much on a desktop workstation PC since it already has those ports and PCIe slots.

Though one good use of Thunderbolt is those super-fast RAID enclosures... like these from G-Technology.

Then again... most computers on the planet don't have Thunderbolt... and apparently the world still turns using some other type of storage.

I agree with you... lack of Thunderbolt on non-Macs isn't as bad as people say it is.

Hell... I'd be curious to know how many Macs have never had a Thunderbolt cable plugged into them. Probably most of them, right?

PC users don't need Thunderbolt, they have PCI-E slots, no cabling hell.

 

[mp2017]

I personally don't see what's wrong with an environment where both Mac and PC are used. I like my Mac for my photography, but if I was doing Cad work or scientific work where a PC was better suited then I would have no problem with that. I wouldn't even really have a problem with using both in the same workflow. Say having a custom PC perhaps for heavy rendering or whatever where I can let that do its thing while continuing to work on the macs.

I say buy what best suits your needs and if you are happy then that is what matters.

The issue is Apple used to offer a system, the cMP, which met people's needs and then did away with that with the nMP. That's the concern many here are expressing.

 

[DearthnVader]

The issue is Apple used to offer a system, the cMP, which met people's needs and then did away with that with the nMP. That's the concern many here are expressing.

The nMP wasn't really a bad system in 2013, other than it's limit of one internal drive, but I really feel Apple missed the boat on how it could have been utilized. With dual FirePro's, it would be nice to be able to do PCI Passthrough.

For CAD and scientific work, being able to run a virtual machine with Linux or Windows, and passing a physical FirePro to the guest OS would be something.

Tho, this is just a software limitation, the hardware supports it, it's really just a matter of porting KVM to the macOS, or Apple building their own software for this.

 

[res0lve]

Been a macOS guy for so long, I really hate to change, but the hardware I ordered really isn't macOS compatible.

I'll likely be using Ubuntu, can't stand Windows, and I need the Unix/Linux command line.

You do realize, we are almost 2018 not in Windows Me era?

Windows 10 runs native Linux next to Windows(no VM, no hypervisors). It's called " windows subsystem for Linux":
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/install_guide
and with this you are not limited "only"to Ubunto and SuSE
https://github.com/RoliSoft/WSL-Distribution-Switcher

Hardcore linux/OSX people move to the better/flexible place:

https://brianketelsen.com/my-cross-platform-dev-setup-on-surface-laptop/
https://brianketelsen.com/switchers/

 

[MarkJames68]

Exactly. Thunderbolt would be great for laptops... but not so much for desktop computers.

What all is Thunderbolt mostly used for these day? It seems to be used for... turning into other things:

Thunderbolt dock... gives you a bunch ports you need.

Thunderbolt eGPU enclosure... gives you a place to put a standard PCIe graphics card.

You're right... Thunderbolt wouldn't really do much on a desktop workstation PC since it already has those ports and PCIe slots.

Though one good use of Thunderbolt is those super-fast RAID enclosures... like these from G-Technology.

Then again... most computers on the planet don't have Thunderbolt... and apparently the world still turns using some other type of storage.

I agree with you... lack of Thunderbolt on non-Macs isn't as bad as people say it is.

Hell... I'd be curious to know how many Macs have never had a Thunderbolt cable plugged into them. Probably most of them, right?

For those using a 6,1 to do audio work, TB2 is awesome for an audio interface. I use a UAD Apollo 8 daisy chained to a couple of UAD satellites. One bus for eGPU, one for audio, one for RAID storage. Pro sits quietly on desk, eGPU and RAID tucked away in a cabinet one one side and other gear in a rack.

 

[DevNull0]

The 6,1 Mac Pro does have PCI-e SSD.

WRONG!!

"Instead, the Cylinder Mac Pro models have only one internal "blade" SSD. Specifically, the SSD uses a custom Apple design with a PCIe 2.0 x4 interface, which is capable of a theoretical maximum speed of 2 GB/s."

It is not PCI-e, I cannot go to any computer store and buy a **industry standard** PCI-e device and put it into the Mac Pro. It doesn't matter what standard Apple mutilated to make their device, it is an Apple proprietary non-standard.

From: https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...-to-upgrade-mac-pro-cylinder-ssd-storage.html not that it's hard to find that info anywhere else.

And besides, that's the only thing you had to say in reply; the only take away you got? So you agree that Timmy's Macs are inferior in every other way I mentioned and that's the only comment you wanted to make?

 

[mp2017]

WRONG!!

"Instead, the Cylinder Mac Pro models have only one internal "blade" SSD. Specifically, the SSD uses a custom Apple design with a PCIe 2.0 x4 interface, which is capable of a theoretical maximum speed of 2 GB/s."

It is not PCI-e, I cannot go to any computer store and buy a **industry standard** PCI-e device and put it into the Mac Pro. It doesn't matter what standard Apple mutilated to make their device, it is an Apple proprietary non-standard.

From: https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...-to-upgrade-mac-pro-cylinder-ssd-storage.html not that it's hard to find that info anywhere else.

I'm wrong despite your reference stating it has a PCIe interface? Perhaps I'm missing something?

And besides, that's the only thing you had to say in reply; the only take away you got? So you agree that Timmy's Macs are inferior in every other way I mentioned and that's the only comment you wanted to make?

The fact I may or may not have commented on any other part of your post does not imply agreement / disagreement with any part for which I did not specifically address.

Do us a favor and lose the attitude.

 

[DearthnVader]

You do realize, we are almost 2018 not in Windows Me era?

Windows 10 runs native Linux next to Windows(no VM, no hypervisors). It's called " windows subsystem for Linux":
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/install_guide
and with this you are not limited "only"to Ubunto and SuSE
https://github.com/RoliSoft/WSL-Distribution-Switcher

Hardcore linux/OSX people move to the better/flexible place:

https://brianketelsen.com/my-cross-platform-dev-setup-on-surface-laptop/
https://brianketelsen.com/switchers/

Yes, I was aware of these things, and to be honest, I keep Windows installed, for when I have to use it. I've not really played around with Windows 10 much, but enough to know it's not the system I want to use for my everyday OS.

IT departments love Windows, because it presents so many problems, that it represents "Job Security" for them.

 

[DevNull0]

You do realize, we are almost 2018 not in Windows Me era?

I've primarily been a mac user for about 20 years, but I've always had a windows gaming box as well, so I'm quite used to both OSes. Windows 10 has pushed me much more towards being a purely MacOS person.

I still use windows 7 on my latest gaming machine. Even though I got windows 10 in the free upgrade and it's currently installed in a dual boot, it's been over a year since I booted it. Windows 10 is microsoft's attempt to take over ownership of your PC. Privacy is non-existant in Windows 10, they install whatever software they want (including third party Apps whose devs pay MS for the installs), they put banner ads in the start menu and were considering turning the unlock screen into a full page ad. They want to turn windows into the same business model as slimy "free" apps that turn a buck off you every way they can. The windows 10 installer even wrote it's own trackers into my motherboard's firmware. For these reasons, imo windows 10 is by far the worst windows ever; worse than ME, Vista, and 8.

And as a nice little kick in the rear from MS, they will only allow each new generation of CPU to run the current or newer version of windows. Which means my current Intel Devil's Canyon i7 is going to be my last windows machine.

At least my only complaints about Apple are they give gimp hardware for the money. And that's minor compared to the horror show that is windows 10.

 

[DearthnVader]

I've primarily been a mac user for about 20 years, but I've always had a windows gaming box as well, so I'm quite used to both OSes. Windows 10 has pushed me much more towards being a purely MacOS person.

I still use windows 7 on my latest gaming machine. Even though I got windows 10 in the free upgrade and it's currently installed in a dual boot, it's been over a year since I booted it. Windows 10 is microsoft's attempt to take over ownership of your PC. Privacy is non-existant in Windows 10, they install whatever software they want (including third party Apps whose devs pay MS for the installs), they put banner ads in the start menu and were considering turning the unlock screen into a full page ad. They want to turn windows into the same business model as slimy "free" apps that turn a buck off you every way they can. The windows 10 installer even wrote it's own trackers into my motherboard's firmware. For these reasons, imo windows 10 is by far the worst windows ever; worse than ME, Vista, and 8.

And as a nice little kick in the rear from MS, they will only allow each new generation of CPU to run the current or newer version of windows. Which means my current Intel Devil's Canyon i7 is going to be my last windows machine.

At least my only complaints about Apple are they give gimp hardware for the money. And that's minor compared to the horror show that is windows 10.

These are among the glaring faults of locking yourself into the Micro$oft ecosystem, and really, I've spent so much time learning Linux/macOS/Unix, that I just flat don't want to learn how to do things the Micro$oft way.

The ins and outs of C/C++ and Xcode, vs. C# and Visual Studio, yet some things I do require it, and I'm forced to use it.

If I had to choose what's better, I choose Linux, and I've spent over a decade learning all the ins and outs of Ubuntu. I still have trouble with it, I still have trouble with the macOS, but I don't find myself cussing out loud while I'm trying to fix them. Micro$oft makes me angry, and I don't like to be that kind of angry.

Granted if I had spent as much time leaning the ins and outs of Windows, I would likely prefer it, but I started my quest in 1979, and I'm just too old to change.

 

[SaxPlayer]

I'm pleased that the conversation has come back to the OS. Speed, while important, isn't everything. I agree with several that have posted that Windows while perfectly fine for some people just isn't an OS I could see myself using every day. I've been there, and attribute my lack of hair to many years of Windows frustrations. However, if it works for you then knock yourself out.

If I had to look elsewhere it would be Linux, because I want a (proper, out of the box) Unix command line.

My 2013 Mac Pro is silent. Despite its shortcomings that have been discussed to their death I've been happy with it. Although something that's more upgradable will be welcome. Personally, I'm sticking to Apple because my days of tinkering are over (I'd rather concentrate on other stuff these days, like my network infrastructure). Although I'll take flack for saying it, I'm anti-Hackintosh because it's against the macOS licensing conditions and I like to play by the rules.

I do think the talk of "modular" is misguided. While we know nothing yet, of course, I would imagine that Apple are talking about modular in terms of how they construct the machine in their factory and not actually a series of separate components that you configure on-line and then plug together when you get it home. We'll see...!

Right, there's enough there for me to get shouted at so I'll go and get my tin hat.

 

[DearthnVader]

I do think the talk of "modular" is misguided. While we know nothing yet, of course, I would imagine that Apple are talking about modular in terms of how they construct the machine in their factory and not actually a series of separate components that you configure on-line and then plug together when you get it home. We'll see...!

I hope you're right, and Apple leaned something from the nMP.

My 2013 Mac Pro is silent. Despite its shortcomings that have been discussed to their death I've been happy with it. Although something that's more upgradable will be welcome. Personally, I'm sticking to Apple because my days of tinkering are over (I'd rather concentrate on other stuff these days, like my network infrastructure). Although I'll take flack for saying it, I'm anti-Hackintosh because it's against the macOS licensing conditions and I like to play by the rules.

The nMP wasn't that bad of a machine in 2013, had I bought one in that time frame, I likely would have been happy with it, at first, but no real upgrade path, other than choosing the low end model, and relying on second hand parts for upgrade.

The thing that sticks in my craw, is Apple taking their sweet time about replacing it. I mean, really, how hard is it. Maybe Apple will knock my socks off with the new one, and I'll be shilling out the price for it, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[SaxPlayer]

The thing that sticks in my craw, is Apple taking their sweet time about replacing it. I mean, really, how hard is it. Maybe Apple will knock my socks off with the new one, and I'll be shilling out the price for it, but I'm not holding my breath.

I completely agree with you. I'm at the point where my nMP is 3 years and 9 months old (not that I'm counting or anything). My previous cMP lasted nearly 7 years but only because I couldn't replace it with a current "Pro" Mac when I really wanted to after around 4 years because of the well documented fiasco of no updates that we had to endure back then.

It's like history repeating itself so I completely understand why people look elsewhere, even if moving isn't for me.

I really want to be in a position where I can upgrade next Spring, however I have a nasty feeling that we'll be waiting (and waiting and waiting) and it'll be late 2018 or even 2019 before anything happens. I've been there once before and it wasn't great. Looks like it's going to happen again.

 

[576316]

Ditched my 2012 MacBook Pro for a PC build early this year, specs in signature. Honestly, none of the Macs Apple currently sell are a sensible purchase. Switching to custom built PCs is a common trend I'm seeing.

 

[DearthnVader]

I completely agree with you. I'm at the point where my nMP is 3 years and 9 months old (not that I'm counting or anything). My previous cMP lasted nearly 7 years but only because I couldn't replace it with a current "Pro" Mac when I really wanted to after around 4 years because of the well documented fiasco of no updates that we had to endure back then.

It's like history repeating itself so I completely understand why people look elsewhere, even if moving isn't for me.

I really want to be in a position where I can upgrade next Spring, however I have a nasty feeling that we'll be waiting (and waiting and waiting) and it'll be late 2018 or even 2019 before anything happens. I've been there once before and it wasn't great. Looks like it's going to happen again.

Really, what I want from Apple is a DYi Mac, in other words give me a macOS compatible Logic Board, and let me pick and choose the other parts I want to put in it.

High end PC Motherboards cost around $399, and the manufactures make profit. If Apple would release a Logic board that was macOS compatible, had a EFI firmware that had a UI for configuration, and used standard UEFI graphics cards, and had all the standard ATX connections and form factor, that I could slap any i5, i7, or i9 CPU in, I'd be willing to give $799 for just the logic board.

I don't really need an Xeon or ECC ram, and I don't want to pay for them.

If Apple locked down the macOS via the logic boards serial number, and killed off the Hackintoch market, I'd bet they sell a ton of them.

 

[AidenShaw]

and I need the Unix/Linux command line

Windows has the Bash shell....

 

[SaxPlayer]

Windows has the Bash shell....

True. But you know how it works? It installs Ubuntu and runs via that.

A good alternative? Run Linux or macOS and it'll work out of the box.

 

[theluggage]

I don't know what budget people are anticipating for the MP.

Nobody knows, but I doubt that an 8 core/32GB RAM/1TB SSD Mac Pro + a LG 5k or comparable display would undercut the cost of an iMac Pro, which sets a minimum of about $4000.

I don't think modular is the right word to describe a single box with plug and play internal components

Trouble is, "modular" could mean anything. If you read the transcript of the April press conference then all you can be sure of about what Schiller & Federighi think "modular" means is "not a laptop or all-in-one":

"As part of doing a new Mac Pro — it is, by definition, a modular system — we will be doing a pro display as well."
...
"I think, as you talk about the pro user, the fact that our user base is split over notebooks, all-in-one desktops and modular desktops is important. We aren’t making one machine for pros. We’re making three different designs for pros. We’re going to continue to."​

(Which kinda suggests that one of Apple's current machines is "modular" by their definition)

...and if you read it carefully they don't promise anything about user upgradeability - just their own ability to offer options and updated models. You can tell by the iMac Pro design that user upgradeability isn't a priority for Apple, even in Pro products. The only thing they clearly commit to changing is the nMP's triangular one-CPU, two-GPU design.

So while the various modular wonders and horrors that people are imagining are a possibility, a sealed unit with a range of build-to-order CPU, GPU, RAM and storage options would be completely consistent with the press conference. Most likely, since the April announcement had all the hallmarks of a panic damage-limitation exercise or small internal coup, they had no idea what they were going to do and were just being non-committal...

 

[DevNull0]

I'm wrong despite your reference stating it has a PCIe interface? Perhaps I'm missing something?

This is a PCI-e SSD that will work with any PCI-e slot: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...147594&cm_re=pci-e_ssd-_-20-147-594-_-Product

Will it work with the Mac Pro 6,1? No. Therefore the Mac Pro 6,1 does not have a PCI-e port. Simple.

The fact I may or may not have commented on any other part of your post does not imply agreement / disagreement with any part for which I did not specifically address.

Your comments are pulling minor things out of context to misstate the truth.

 

[mp2017]

This is a PCI-e SSD that will work with any PCI-e slot: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...147594&cm_re=pci-e_ssd-_-20-147-594-_-Product

Will it work with the Mac Pro 6,1? No. Therefore the Mac Pro 6,1 does not have a PCI-e port. Simple.

I don't recall saying the nMP would work with any PCIe SSD. I said it had a PCIe SSD. Which it does. Your reference is proof as much.

Your comments are pulling minor things out of context to misstate the truth.

I merely corrected you in that the nMP has a PCIe SSD. It does. Your own reference supports my statement. Which is why I puzzled you're bothering to argue this point.

 

[ActionableMango]

Apple is losing sales.

Yep, they lost me too. I don't know why I'm still here in this subforum. I miss the cMP I guess.

 

[Synchro3]

Lost me too.. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/the-hackintosh-thread.1900326/page-24#post-24845743

No desirable tower, Mac Mini or Laptop available. The most recent purchase I made was an iPad, for traveling.