This. One thing I learned working in retail for several years is that you may have 1 person that will share with one or two people how great a product or service is. However, you will have several people that will tell everyone on God's green earth how horrible a product or service was when they run into something that doesn't work perfectly.
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Just got a 27" iMac, where is the quality control?
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This. One thing I learned working in retail for several years is that you may have 1 person that will share with one or two people how great a product or service is. However, you will have several people that will tell everyone on God's green earth how horrible a product or service was when they run into something that doesn't work perfectly.
You're not counting the many people who aren't a part of this board, or people who are new to Mac. Someone new to mac may not know how past models performed, thus they can't know that something is irregular.
I would venture a guess that on this particular model, the boards are more flooded than usual with these types of posts. Not to mention that the yellow tinge problem appears to be in a large % of the models. I've never gotten heavy into photo editing in my life, and don't have a good eye for things. But this was obvious to me from the first time I booted it up.
Here's something to keep in mind when you read "only people who have a problem write on websites to complain, so you get a distorted image of how prevalent the problem actually is - most people don't have a problem and they don't post."
This is only valid to a degree - that is when the group who write is a self-selected group. That is, mostly people who have a problem write, etc.
But when you have a random group on a website, that argument does not apply.
Imagine that you have a bunch of people who are regular users of a website (such as this) - they are not registering just to complain about a problem. They are already here. If now, among regular users you get 50% with a problem, then they represent a random sample. And the sample says that 50% of users have a problem. This is like any survey or sample - it is valid, because it is random.
In the other scenario, it is not random - the users are self-selecting, so only they post, so you cannot estimate problems based on that.
Now comes the crucial part - many of these complaints are coming from regular users - not self selected ones who are newbies who registered just now to complain. This means that if many regular users are having problems, they are a random sample - it means the problems are real and prevalent.
This is what is happening with the 27" iMacs - these problems are real, folks, and are VERY PREVALENT.
I'm waiting till January before ordering - hopefully they'll solve their issues by then. Folks, this is real and the risk is very high. On the hopeful side, looks like maybe the latest week 49 and week 50 iMacs have fewer problems. We'll see in time.
This is only valid to a degree - that is when the group who write is a self-selected group. That is, mostly people who have a problem write, etc.
But when you have a random group on a website, that argument does not apply.
Imagine that you have a bunch of people who are regular users of a website (such as this) - they are not registering just to complain about a problem. They are already here. If now, among regular users you get 50% with a problem, then they represent a random sample. And the sample says that 50% of users have a problem. This is like any survey or sample - it is valid, because it is random.
In the other scenario, it is not random - the users are self-selecting, so only they post, so you cannot estimate problems based on that.
Now comes the crucial part - many of these complaints are coming from regular users - not self selected ones who are newbies who registered just now to complain. This means that if many regular users are having problems, they are a random sample - it means the problems are real and prevalent.
This is what is happening with the 27" iMacs - these problems are real, folks, and are VERY PREVALENT.
I'm waiting till January before ordering - hopefully they'll solve their issues by then. Folks, this is real and the risk is very high. On the hopeful side, looks like maybe the latest week 49 and week 50 iMacs have fewer problems. We'll see in time.
Not that I buy this theory anyway, but show me your hard data that 50% of regular users on MacRumors have bad i7s.
I'm a regular user with a problem-free i7.
I'm feeling a little irregular today though...
The theory is rock solid - that's how all market research is done. Find a random sample of appropriate size. Whatever percentage have a problem, well that's the percentage of users. That's standard operating procedure.
I don't have the exact numbers. However, we do have a random sample
Just go to the thread on here titled something like "Are you on that flight". These are all people who as yet didn't have the iMac - they were waiting for it - perfect RANDOM sample... not selecting folks who already have a problem. Now, once they got their iMacs, see the huge number who have subsequently had problems with their iMacs. The percentage was huge - something along 54% if I recall correctly.
How can you not buy the "theory"? What the guy is saying is totally correct, it's not a theory, its grade level statistics.
Regular user, i5, bad screen here.
Fair enough. Now show me the hard data I requested. OH, is that it? You have a bad one and I have a good one?? 50-50? lol
Also, what is the criterion for "regular" user?
See my previous post - I can't find that thread anymore, but there you go.
This actually is extremely easy to answer. For the purposes of statistical research, you are looking for random users. Random in this case is anyone who didn't register just to complain (or praise) the new iMac - so a regular user as opposed to a newbie who just signed up. In other words, anyone who signed up before getting their iMac. That is a random person - random, because they are neither for, nor against, since they don't have their iMac at all! And there are plenty of those.
Let's see some pictures of your screen doing the tinge test. I have never seen a perfect screen yet, just bunches of bad ones.
https://forums.macrumors.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=5022
The poll results are significant, as well as the fact the far too many people are on their 3rd and 4th replacement. If you have a perfect iMac, you should go buy a lottery ticket.
Hmmm. You think MacRumors-forum-posters represent an adequately random sample of all new iMac owners? Interesting conjecture.
Sounds like a good research subject! (Sadly, I don't have the time or brainpower to manage such a project--I slept through my grade level statistics courses.)
And sorry about the bad screen. Bummer.
Let's see some pictures of your screen doing the tinge test. I have never seen a perfect screen yet, just bunches of bad ones.
https://forums.macrumors.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=5022
The poll results are significant, as well as the fact the far too many people are on their 3rd and 4th replacement. If you have a perfect iMac, you should go buy a lottery ticket.
Show me a "perfect" screen from a 24" aluminum iMac while you're at it. Show me a "perfect", "flawless" screen on any consumer-level LCD panel.
I don't read about too many folks trying to properly calibrate their displays in these threads either. They power up their iMac, pop up those grey bar test screens, see that they are not exactly identical and get on the phone to Apple to replace the machine. Then they repeat the whole thing over again a few times.
Me too
Don't be. Mine's perfect...and there are a majority of those out there.
Again, let me emphasize something. I'm not a person that typically nitpicks computers. But when it sounds like someone is sitting behind my iMac knocking very slightly at a pretty consistent rate - I notice.
I just wonder if anyone else has had this specific problem, and fixed it? Again, I know the odds of getting a nice screen don't seem to be very great right now (which is a serious problem), but if I could get past the knocking, I'd be ok for awhile.
I just wonder if anyone else has had this specific problem, and fixed it? Again, I know the odds of getting a nice screen don't seem to be very great right now (which is a serious problem), but if I could get past the knocking, I'd be ok for awhile.
As we speak, my crappy old Dell is hooked up to a 40" Samsung LCD running at 1080p. The color is flawless! Whites are brilliant and all greys match identical. The 19" Viewsonic monitor in the office also has a flawless color consistency.
Both of these displays of mine make the new iMacs look like cheap Chinese made junk! I'm running out the door now, but I can post pics when I return if you want to see.
A random sampling study in user forums like these is fine for cut and dry problems like DOA/flickering/cracked glass panels. What's the percentage on those in that thread and not the more subjective yellow tinge/HD noise problems where many folks never even perceived problems (until they read about them here and convinced themselves they existed)? Regular users are the most likely to read about these problems.
As for the yellow tinge iMacs all ship with the brightness level at maximum and generally horrible calibration. The machine needs to be calibrated to the ambient lighting of the room it will be used in. Taking the time to do so can really lessen problems. Is the screen going to be 100% perfectly uniform perfection? No, sorry.
There are variables here. I'd just like you to be more specific here about what exactly your random sampling study is attempting to prove.
If 54% of the posters to that thread had a cracked panel, DOA or flickering machine you will get no arguments from me that there is a huge problem.
Well you should stick to Dells I think. I've had 3 Macs and none have been absolutely "perfect" or flawless. I had a mid-2007 iMac that had a really bad left to right gradient and I had it replaced. The replacement was very uniform, while not "perfect".
Of course, as I said this is all an entirely subjective matter anyway. It is hard to properly catch backlighting imperfections with digital photos.
I'll take your word for it on the Dell. Stick with them.
It's not TOO clear that you have an agenda in here. (looking at your username). Hey, at least you're open and honest about it. Apple isn't for everyone.
Well you should stick to Dells I think. I've had 3 Macs and none have been absolutely "perfect" or flawless. I had a mid-2007 iMac that had a really bad left to right gradient and I had it replaced. The replacement was very uniform, while not "perfect".
Of course, as I said this is all an entirely subjective matter anyway. It is hard to properly catch backlighting imperfections with digital photos.
I'll take your word for it on the Dell. Stick with them.
It's not TOO clear that you have an agenda in here. (looking at your username). Hey, at least you're open and honest about it. Apple isn't for everyone.
Dell has nothing to do with the quality of my Samsung display and Viewsonic display compared to the new iMac displays. I'm not interested in another Dell, or Windows 7 for that matter. I had a chance recently to spend some time with Windows 7 and I couldn't stand it.
I'm waiting for Apple to get this figured out before I make my next computer purchase, which I hope is sooner rather than later, since my first choice would be an iMac.
oh yeah, ME TOO!
But just take it back?
If you saw the problem right away, why did you wait 3 weeks?
That's SO long
Strong reasoning.I am using another device (Palm Pre) which is plagued with some problems and there is another forum I frequent where the 'problems' are skewed because most people register just to complain.
I hope this is true... I will have a week 50 machine.
I signed up BEFORE i got my iMac so when I report back it will be random.
Me too
i don't have the machine yet...
What kind of response is that? I don't think it is unreasonable for him to wait until Apple fixes the problems with the 27" iMac.
Then he can wait all he wants. It's just this sense of entitlement that pisses me off sometimes. Not that this poster necessarily has that...but Apple will do what they want to do based on the numbers they are seeing in sales. If they deem the "yellow tint" problem to be a significant issue to a majority of users, they'll fix it en masse, if not they'll go on a case by case basis and continue on manufacturing the way they want.
Well I have spent some time here on MR for the last few months waiting for my system to come in. Too long really but that is a separate story. I too have read about plenty of problems that people are having with their systems. To tell you the truth It did make me a bit paranoid but I do understand that human nature is such that people are more likely to broadcast a problem they are having rather than a good experience. I also understand that any rev a design is going to have some problems to iron out. My (week 50) I7 arrived recently and I have been giving it a workout pretty well ever since. No cracked glass, no flickering or yellow tinge, no excessive HD or fan noise, no obvious dead pixels. Sure it gets hot working FC express 4 plus some other side apps but if I were the thermal engineer on the design I would be taking full advantage of that big piece of aluminum at the back as well. I just thought I would take a moment to say that I got a pretty good machine and I am thrilled with it.
I just thought I would take a moment to say that I got a pretty good machine and I am thrilled with it.
Great to hear! I too, as mentioned have had none of the reported issues thus far. After reading the posts in here I keep expecting the machine to start flickering at any moment. But this Wednesday will be 3 weeks of heavy usage with the machine and once it makes it to then flicker-less I think I'm declaring it home free.
I didn't have nearly the smooth experience of this i7 when I bought my mid-2007 24" iMac. That was the first "aluminum" model and it had some major issues.