konfab not hitting potential

[Santiago]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
I think that "widget" is an ok word, and i appreciate the humor of making up words, like konfabulator.

The reason people are complaining is that widget is already widely used to refer to any atomic GUI element, such as a close box, button, or scroll bar. Using it to refer to Konfabulator Applets is an abuse of terminology.

Regarding Konfabulator itself, I tried it, checked out most of the non-clock "widgets", removed all but the to-do list (which I can implement via a sticky anyway), and got rid of the whole thing after I rebooted from the 10.2.4 install and met the indestructible nag window. Regarding making it easy to put together Applets, it seems most people would rather make use of AppleScript studio, which combines an easy scripting language with a fully-featured GUI, and which is free for both developers and users. (I personally would just cobble together a Cocoa application.)

 

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Santiago
The reason people are complaining is that widget is already widely used to refer to any atomic GUI element, such as a close box, button, or scroll bar. Using it to refer to Konfabulator Applets is an abuse of terminology.

Yeah, widget wasn't the best idea. it gives you an inaccurate idea of what it does too--i was thrown off by it at first, thinking it was an app to customize themes yourself, having worked with the widgets in XP fooling around with an OS X theme for it. but after i realized what it was, i shirked it off (any offense at the terminology), i guess. i don't think that plugin is the best word for these "widdgets," but can't think of good a word for them--applets is definitely better than plugin. i was really more talking about "konfabulator;" it sounds so funny to me, somehow. it gives the whole thing a nice light tone, makes it sound fun.

i don't like the app enough to even use it if it were free right now, but i'll definitely see what the next version looks like in terms of features.

 

[Sayer]

Hmm

A Fisking of AmbitiousLemon's rant. If you don't know what Fisking is, ask Google.

there are a lot f things wrong with konfab, but the worse is the price (and not just because it is $25)

Okay so please enumerate the reasons why you dislike Konfabulator. You indicate there are reasons other than price so lets get to em. Is there something wrong with the Shift key on your keyboard?

the developers have a lot fo audacity in my mind to spend months hyping an app that has no functionality.

Are the developers Gadget software passing off a CPU/RAM Turbocharger app again? No? From the website: "Konfabulator is a JavaScript runtime engine for Mac OS X that lets you run little files called Widgets that can do pretty much whatever you want them to. Widgets can be alarm clocks, calculators, can tell you your AirPort signal strength, will fetch the latest stock quotes for your preferred symbols, and even give your current local weather." How is this "no functionality"? It sounds quite extensible to me, using JavaScript no less. What a feat of programming that must have been!

all they did was create an environment which people can use to write cheap crappy little javascript apps for.

Ah you understand the software after all, and yet don't "get it." Why all the outrage then? Simply don't use the software. Simple.

And wasn't Konfabulator just released *last week*? How many third-party Mac OS X-native apps were there when v10.0.0 was released? And how many are there now? Mac OS X itself is an environment which people can use to write cheap crappy little Cocoa apps and costs way more than Konfabulator. So where is your outrage against Mac OS X?

but the worst of it is this: the want to charge you $25 to use the app (that does nothing) and then tell you to develop the functionality.

Okay you don't like the price tag because you fail to see any value in an open-ended development environment. We got it. The price tags for CodeWarrior ($399) and REALBasic (up to $350) must *really* make you mad, so mad you rip off the damn Shift key on your keyboard - both of em! What other issues do you have?

what kind of ass -backwards world do we live in where developers charge you to write their app for them?

Metrowerks and REAL Software probably have a good understanding of this world they live in. Its called the Free Market system/Capitalism. Look it up. The tagline on REAL Software's web site is "create your own software." That must REALLY torque you off!

now had the developers
1) open sourced their app
2) made their app freeware
3) provided plugins that do anything

So you would have liked this app if it were exactly the same, but open sourced and free of charge. And since they didn't have the time to think of and create the entire range of possible uses for their open-ended development environment it sucks ass.

What happened to your other reasons for hating this software? Is that it? Apple doesn't provide every possible solution to the needs of its users. Sometimes you have to actually go out and buy third-party software. How does this make you feel about owning an Apple computer that cost several thousand dollars?

maybe it would be an app worth talking about but i can't help feeling that they are just trying to rape the mac community.

So Arlo Rose is smashing his way into your house and forcibly inserting his software into your poor helpless Mac? No wonder you are so angry!

if the app was free and came with some free plugins and offered some shareware plugins it would make a lot more sense for developers to write their own. but as it is now the whole thing is backwards.

So basically your whole argument is that the software has a price tag? It's the price, stupid! And it doesn't come with pre-made plugins to do everything from check your email to butter your bread so it is absolutely useless! I didn't know it was mandatory to download and pay for Konfabulator and be stuck with a useless no-feature app occupying hard disk space.

o and one last thing. stop calling them widgets! can't believe a developer would use a word already used by the os and amc community for something else when there is already an accepted word for what they are creating. these are not widgets people! these are plugins.

widget. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.
1. A small mechanical device or control; a gadget.

So how are they not widgets? Does Apple have a trademark on widgets to label to birghtness controls on Apple Cinema Displays? Where exactly is widget used by the "os" and "amc community" (the movie theater chain)? You gotta throw us a bone here, you are not making much sense. And why haven't you replaced the Shift key on your keyboard yet?

first you rape us then you try to confuse us by use computer terminology all wrong. hearing people talk about konfab widgets makes me think about just how stupid these developers are.

Ah so Arlo Rose and Co. are part of the Axis of Evil? They are no better than Hitler! Why they actually expect you to pay for a product they force on you with no pre-made widgets that you like! How dare anyone expect the end user to actually create something original by using their software (you know Word should come with every document I ever intend to make).

i need a pram and in lcd hard drive for my kernal to upload to the firewire protocol in time for my OS to optimize fully.

What? Now you are ranting incoherently. Perhaps you should talk to a rape crisis center. I have no idea what you just said but you apparently found the Shift key to use while typing "OS", finally.

if you want to invent a snappy name for something don't just confuse things by using something already in use otherwise you sound like an idiot.

Where is the confusion of terms other in your own head? What are your own snappy names then? Don't let your mouth write a check that your butt can't cash. Apple calls bundles plugins, and plugins bundles, and folders bundles if they have an extension, unless its .framework then they are frameworks. Is Apple raping the Mac community as well?

I missed your wide sweeping points of contention against this new software, other than its price and the name of of its add-on modules. So basically you sound like a cheap bastard who doesn't understand that software development environments are not and end unto themselves.

You are also accusing the authors of this software of "rape" without any connection to the reality we all live in. No one is forcing this software on anyone, especially people who see now value in it.

Do us all favor and take some Paxil and/or call a crisis center before you do any more damage to your self or your computer.

 

[chewbaccapits]

Nice post sayer but I'd like to say I can understand BOTH sides of this arguement. Good points were raised by both sides. Whats funny is that, these forums do 2 things;
1. Discussions spawn arguements; either in a mature or immature matter.
2. The people reading these discussions are the ones that would actually be swayed in thinking differently depending on the strenghts of the agruements.

With that said, I was beginning to agree with the non-supportive konfab peeps, but many of those post became a tad immature. I for one will go back and report AL's post back there.Why? As a moderator, you set tone and standard of the thread and this one became a little ugly for a bit.

 

[Dunepilot]

Re: Hmm

Originally posted by Sayer
A Fisking of AmbitiousLemon's rant. If you don't know what Fisking is, ask Google.



Okay so please enumerate the reasons why you dislike Konfabulator. You indicate there are reasons other than price so lets get to em. Is there something wrong with the Shift key on your keyboard?



Are the developers Gadget software passing off a CPU/RAM Turbocharger app again? No? From the website: "Konfabulator is a JavaScript runtime engine for Mac OS X that lets you run little files called Widgets that can do pretty much whatever you want them to. Widgets can be alarm clocks, calculators, can tell you your AirPort signal strength, will fetch the latest stock quotes for your preferred symbols, and even give your current local weather." How is this "no functionality"? It sounds quite extensible to me, using JavaScript no less. What a feat of programming that must have been!



Ah you understand the software after all, and yet don't "get it." Why all the outrage then? Simply don't use the software. Simple.

And wasn't Konfabulator just released *last week*?

etc etc etc

You are also accusing the authors of this software of "rape" without any connection to the reality we all live in. No one is forcing this software on anyone, especially people who see now value in it.

Do us all favor and take some Paxil and/or call a crisis center before you do any more damage to your self or your computer.

Aaaargh. Step away from the pedantry

But yes, AL is wrong on this. I just wouldn't/couldn't have written such a long-winded response!

 

[shadowfax]

Re: Hmm

Originally posted by Sayer

widget. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.
1. A small mechanical device or control; a gadget.

So how are they not widgets? Does Apple have a trademark on widgets to label to birghtness controls on Apple Cinema Displays? Where exactly is widget used by the "os" and "amc community" (the movie theater chain)? You gotta throw us a bone here, you are not making much sense. And why haven't you replaced the Shift key on your keyboard yet?

Originally posted by Santiago
The reason people are complaining is that widget is already widely used to refer to any atomic GUI element, such as a close box, button, or scroll bar. Using it to refer to Konfabulator Applets is an abuse of terminology.

I thought you generally had a good series of arguments, but you really make a fool of yourself if you don't read entire threads.

widgets are a generally accepted term in the computer theming community that refer to buttons on windows. yes, these are gadgets as much as konfabulator, but it honestly does muddy the waters for the term as it relates to computers. sure, it's not some kind of copyright violation, but AL was just going off on how it is irresponsible for them to use that term. i think he has a point, though i agree that you have to take everything he said with a grain of salt, and at the end of the day, it was WAY out of line.

I brought up the operating system parallel you used earlier; i hardly think it's valid. you are talking about literally millions of lines more code. it's a 2 GB installation localized in like hundreds of languages. It drives a wide variety of hardware, and right out of the box does thousands of things, like... chatting on the net, video editing, music playing, using the internet... there is no obvious comparison between Konfabulator and OS X that would justify charging for it based on the fact that people pay 129$.

about the "amc" community. go here before you do that again. we all understand he meant mac community. it's a logical fallacy to berate your opponent and consider that arguing him down. for instance, saying "george bush is stupid" in no way refutes an argument for his economic policies. it's bad etiquette.

 

[RBMaraman]

Re: Re: Hmm

Originally posted by Shadowfax

widgets are a generally accepted term in the computer theming community that refer to buttons on windows. yes, these are gadgets as much as konfabulator, but it honestly does muddy the waters for the term as it relates to computers. sure, it's not some kind of copyright violation, but AL was just going off on how it is irresponsible for them to use that term. i think he has a point, though i agree that you have to take everything he said with a grain of salt, and at the end of the day, it was WAY out of line.

I've never heard the word "widget" refer to anything about computers until I checked out the Konfabulator website. I wasn't aware that "widget" refered to some kind of theming. So, I went and asked some of my computer science/programming friends what they thought the word "widget" refered to. The majority said that it refers to some kind of gadget. One person said that he heard someone call buttons on windows "widgets", but most people usually just call buttons "buttons." Just thought I'd share some findings....If anyone cares.

 

[shadowfax]

Re: Re: Re: Hmm

Originally posted by RBMaraman
I've never heard the word "widget" refer to anything about computers until I checked out the Konfabulator website. I wasn't aware that "widget" refered to some kind of theming. So, I went and asked some of my computer science/programming friends what they thought the word "widget" refered to. The majority said that it refers to some kind of gadget. One person said that he heard someone call buttons on windows "widgets", but most people usually just call buttons "buttons." Just thought I'd share some findings....If anyone cares.

yes, but talk to people who make themes (the theming community) and you will find that widget is recognized as a term referring to what Santiago said. point taken though, the theming community is rather small (compared to the computer user base at large).