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Lack of a DVD drive option is terrible. Agree?
- Thread starter darkgoob
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You fly in somewhere to give a presentation and their projector uses VGA input, without a VGA port you're SOL, unless you bring your own projector.
Sorry, but for what I do I don't need a VGA port, and when I get a presentation they usually have something for my macs! In my business we all use macs, and always have something that support it. I know I'm the minority tho! So to the topic! This is the reason why I school myself before I buy something that suits my needs. How simple is that right?
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As for me I'm good not having a bluray drive in my macs. I have a PS3 for that!
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Or you could just bring a DisplayPort to VGA adapter
Sgt. Raven said:You fly in somewhere to give a presentation and their projector uses VGA input, without a VGA port you're SOL, unless you bring your own projector.aziatiklover said:True and the option is the USB superdrive that they offer it at $69 or $79 I can't remember! Anyways, look at floppy disk and VGA port! They are long gone from Apple computers, and I'm glad that they removed it! Seriously look at how Windows users still have the VGA port in there laptops and you think they even use it? I'm sure they all switch to something better like HDMI port.
This my man!
Or you could just bring a DisplayPort to VGA adapter
Yeap I forgot to say that we have adapters from Apple and third party.
I rather have a compact adapter instead of an fugly VGA port in my MBA.I was going to buy one as my HTPC but the lack of a optical drive was a deal killer.
I went with a previous gen model
I went with a previous gen model
I needed an optical drive, but still went with the latest HD 6630m Mini & just bought a cheap, new Samsung drive instead. Works a treat & looks fine.
Plus factor for me of an external drive: regularly-used optical drives can be a bit of an Achilles heel on most computers, esp so in Macs if you can't replace defective ones yourself. Fine if it happens within warranty, but a bummer otherwise, reducing your Mac's resale value. So no complaints here about using an external optical drive from day one.
A Mac Mini with built-in Blu-Ray would be so badass. Why oh why... Apple?
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On the Mac Pro and MacBook Pro the optical drive has never seemed difficult to swap out. The laptops require a few more screws, but still. iMacs are obviously a pain to take apart, but it just takes a long time. As for the latest Mini, I have no idea how easy/hard their disassembly is.
How annoying did you find the Boot Camp installation process? I found it was really a pain because when I tried to create the USB stick, Boot Camp Assistant formatted the wrong external device due to a bug (it formatted the external USB hard drive that contained the .ISO file!). Major bug!!
I for one have wanted to see a Mac for a long time. Not a Mac Mini, nor a Mac Pro, just _Mac_. It would be a desktop with three PCI-E slots, two HD bays, two optical bays, and a single processor for $999+. Apple would let third parties write graphics drivers finally. Go after the PC gamers, the last stronghold of Windows. Kill it once and for all.
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OK the unique thing about the Mac Mini is that it's designed to be connected to a television (only Mac with an HDMI port). In the past I've had several friends that had a Mac Mini as their home DVD player. They are the only people I've ever seen who used the remote control that goes with the Mac.
Why make a set-top-box-ish Mac with no Blu-Ray or DVD option?!
I'm all for Apple making the "server" version of Mini with no optical drive, but they should still offer both options.
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OK, below is the Magnum Opus... ye of ADHD, might as well skip to the next post, this one's a long one... fair warning has been served. I agree with you, and thank you for asking good questions and thinking critically instead of dismissing my comments out-of-hand. I admit that I have been arguing based on assumptions, so I decided this morning to do a bit of research. Here is what I have found.
NY Times reported in February that 28% of Americans lack internet access, and only 60% of rural households have the possibility of broadband access. Plus, two years ago, 79% of households had a DVD player, according to an US EIA survey, whereas only 43% had a DVR. (Though that number has been rising dramatically, bear in mind that many DVRs that are in households are provided by cable providers and are not owned by the consumer, nor is any of the content they house.)
Also, in a more direct answer to your question, Nielsen reported in March that the average American spends 15 minutes each day on "DVD playback."; Further, American consumers owned an average of 78 music CDs each, according to this study, although new purchases only happened once every six months for half of them.
I think it's reasonable to suspect that many people who are contemplating switching from Windows (like my friend) will have a few games they own that they might want to be able to play in Boot Camp. These come on DVD and require the DVD to be inserted to play. So I don't think my friend who bought this Mac Mini is an exceptional case.
I would even go as far as to say that, in my opinion, most public libraries has many DVDs and CDs in its collection. Access to information is important for an informed public. I think that having the ability to read CDs and DVDs on your computer is a critical, core function because it is a citizen's media. You can create and distribute gigabytes of data on DVD and no one can censor you. You can hand them out on a street corner, at a convention, at a protest. No one can shut off your connection or jam your signal or DOS your server. It's cheaper than paper.
Plus, when you depend on online distribution, there are MANY esoteric, independent, and foreign films that are simply NOT available online. You can't even buy Japanese iTunes store music from the American iTunes store... why not? I'm guessing it's some weird legal BS.
TL;DR: an optical drive (CD/DVD) is a core, bare-minimum feature for many people (but not everyone). The Mac Mini fails as a "minimalistic" solution to the problem of the desktop computer because it is stripped of this core, necessary feature. It should at least be an option, so people don't have to resort to an ugly, inelegant solution. It's not a "Mini," it's a "Sub-Mini." It is lacking. It's still a really great machine on many levels, but it could have been perfect.
Why? .....
Apple removed the optical drive as part of a format war that is far from over. It's a war against Asian companies like Sony and Panasonic who are pushing Blu-Ray. It's a war for royalties on media distribution. I think it's wrong to make Mac Mini buyers the casualties. Apple should offer a Mac Mini with integrated DVD or even better, Blu-Ray.
I guess you don't own a game console. But as far as Mac software goes, I'm right there with you. There are still a few programs however like I mention, Reason and Digital Performer, that require a DVD drive to authorize. I also do like having DVD install discs for the operating system.
Really?
If a DVD drive fails, it's easy to replace, and cheap. If your computer's USB ports go out (which I have had happen several times) then you are looking at a very costly repair (gotta love AppleCare).
Further you can buy a stack of 100 DVD-Rs for less than $30 at retail. They are easy to store en-masse in archival albums, they are easy to label with their contents, and they are easy to mail. USB sticks, while reusable and pocketable, are much more expensive per-gigabyte and do not possess the ease of storage of DVDs (flat, stackable, many types of individual cases and packaging available).
USB media is also erasable so it doesn't serve as a very good way to distribute content or archive it in a form that can be checked out (like in a library).
Then there's the problem that many computers simply do not have enough USB ports. My girlfriend's iMac has numerous USB hard drives, a printer, keyboard, and other stuff. She had to get a USB hub but it's not very reliable. Plugging a USB stick into her iMac is no simple task; it requires determining which USB cord goes to which item so that you don't unplug the Time Machine hard drive in the middle of a backup. Then because USB sticks are often these fat, wide things, you have to unplug maybe two or three cords to even fit it into the port.
I would be fine with software that's distributed on USB stick, but that leads to the dark future where software will require the USB stick to be inserted in order to run (we've already seen this USB authorization from several high-end audio programs that require an iLok dongle, which you will find very few fans of). But when I'm using my audio software, I have to use all my available USB ports to connect peripherals like MIDI interfaces and hard drives. My MacBook Pro's two USB ports are simply not enough, and having to occupy one with a USB dongle would be a show-stopper. I'm OK with the requirement for inserting a CD though, but that's why I could never use a MacBook Air with my current software setup.
I said *if* he wanted to buy a new Mac from Apple, then he was forced to get one without a built-in DVD. I didn't say that he was forced to buy a Mac from Apple, but I am guessing Apple does want people to buy Macs from them.
It was really annoying because Boot Camp Assistant erased my external hard drive due to a bug. If the thing had just had a built-in DVD drive, then this would have never happened.
No, it's a failing on Apple's part. Why should we have to re-purchase some new upgraded version of the software just because Apple wants to inflict its vision of the future on us? And, "The writing" has not been on the wall. What wall? What are you talking about?
Well, in this case yes, because their business model would be just fine without making this move. Having an optical drive does not preclude anyone from buying movies, music, and software online. If indeed those are better ways to get that content, then people will still use it.
An external DVD fails as an argument, not only because installing Boot Camp is a buggy kludgefest without an internal DVD, but because if it's only $20, then why didn't Apple make it available as an internal option at the time of purchase? $20 is much less to Apple than it is to the consumer. People should have an internal optical bay also if they should want to install a Blu-Ray drive, especially since the thing has HDMI out!
I mean, it's just like, what's the point of this nice little aluminum, sleek computer if you then put some ugly, plasticky, el-cheapo DVD drive with it?
Apple's responsibility is to make software that doesn't reformat random external USB drives. OK, I get it, it was a bug, but still. Boot Camp Assistant is a piece of Apple Software. It's their responsibility.
Yes haha
Well, I have provided statistics here to show that most Americans use DVDs every day (on average), and most Americans therefore own some DVDs. I have explained how DVDs are the cheapest and easiest way to distribute content in the real world (as opposed to online) and said why I think that's important, even from the perspective of a functioning democracy (access to public library DVD collections, distribute information at protests, etc.).
My argument is that because DVD usage is ubiquitous, then removal of the DVD from a computer is not minimalism. It's below the minimum. It's sub-par, and makes the solution to the problem more complex than it needed to be. Apple is going too far with minimalism; it's becoming something more like totalitarianism, though obviously without the strong-arm tactics (though I hear their corporate security team is essentially a private military, but I'm OK with that
).I am not calling anyone a fan-boy, but I do think that it's easy to start to "believe" in Apple's vision of things ... that's what I mean by "Kool-aid drinking." It means that you have bought into what they are pushing, regardless of whether most people are on board. Hey, if it works for you, then that's great... but I think Apple should offer a model with a built-in optical drive for those of us who want backwards compatibility with existing libraries of disks, existing software, etc., and don't want to have some ugly external drive. Why is that too much to ask?
If Apple thinks it can capture more market share by NOT offering a DVD drive option in the Mac Mini, then I'm curious exactly how that enables them to do it? I would like to hear your argument. And which market is it that they are capturing here -- the PC market, or the online media market, or what?
Point taken. Snow Leopard did cause me pains in upgrading but I realize that it was because it moved to a 64-bit kernel. Also it seemed to be faster and a good refinement of Leopard, which in turn was faster and a good refinement of Tiger, and so on back to 10.0 beta.
Lion on the other hand... I really see no reason to upgrade to it. Do you? If so what? Sorry I know that's off-topic, maybe PM me.
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You shouldn't buy the Mini if you're so concerned about not having a DVD drive. You are not required to own one. Personally, I am a bit diasppointed about not having a DVD drive but when the time comes that I really need one I will go buy an external drive, I've owned this mini since late July and I haven't missed it yet. Almost anything can be downloaded now. It is bad for people who don't have high speed internet connections but there are other computers out there and the option of External disc drives.
Most of my installation dvds from the past have been saved as .iso so I can have a backup. The other advantage of keeping installers on .iso is the speed. If I want to play a game that requires the disc, I don't have to go hunting for the disc to play it, I just load the image up. Installations are so much faster than using the old DVD / CD drive.
Running bootcamp was no problem for me, I downloaded a .iso file of windows 7 and used my legitimate product key to install windows. Bootcamp will put windows on a usb flash or hard drive now if you wish.
I have two external hard drives, I keep one at home, another in a different place in case the house burns down I don't lose everything important.
USB Flash and SD card media are getting cheaper all the time, I can't wait till I can go out and buy all my software at the store(if I choose not to download) on one of those mediums.
Most of my installation dvds from the past have been saved as .iso so I can have a backup. The other advantage of keeping installers on .iso is the speed. If I want to play a game that requires the disc, I don't have to go hunting for the disc to play it, I just load the image up. Installations are so much faster than using the old DVD / CD drive.
Running bootcamp was no problem for me, I downloaded a .iso file of windows 7 and used my legitimate product key to install windows. Bootcamp will put windows on a usb flash or hard drive now if you wish.
I have two external hard drives, I keep one at home, another in a different place in case the house burns down I don't lose everything important.
USB Flash and SD card media are getting cheaper all the time, I can't wait till I can go out and buy all my software at the store(if I choose not to download) on one of those mediums.
Apple, and some here, live in a world where downloads are fast. Most of us do not. Apple has no idea how bad it is. And expensive.
This week I was mailed two disks of baby pictures. The alternative was for hours of transmitting and downloads.
I also bought a receiver and the instructions were on a disk (stupid idea btw).
To me the only diskless devices should be the Airs and iPads. Taking it out of the Mini was a bad idea.
Most people still need a disk and buying a separate one is more expensive and clutters up the desk, and is stupid on the road.
This week I was mailed two disks of baby pictures. The alternative was for hours of transmitting and downloads.
I also bought a receiver and the instructions were on a disk (stupid idea btw).
To me the only diskless devices should be the Airs and iPads. Taking it out of the Mini was a bad idea.
Most people still need a disk and buying a separate one is more expensive and clutters up the desk, and is stupid on the road.
See above. I have provided quantifiable data, if you want to take the time to read it. (Not that I think the burden of providing quantifiable data should have been on the person who is claiming DVD is a ubiquitous technology, but I obliged anyway, since it was so easy.)
No, I am simply using myself and my friend as examples, not claiming everyone is like us. But I know I am not alone, and I know that Macs all include Garage Band and Apple sells Logic, and that musicians typically want portable items, and the Mini makes a great option for them. Musicians like to be able to burn CDs for lots of reasons, just like videographers (iMovie, Final Cut Pro) need to be able to burn DVDs. Macs are marketed at these people, how can you try to deny that?
Oh, give me a break, I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth.
How do you hand out your photos to clients? Because last I checked, CD/DVD is the standard, accepted format to provide the client with the digital files.
Whenever I shoot graduations or marching band competitions, the company I work for requires that I burn the shoot to a CD. It's in the contract. When I shoot models, often times we do "trade for CD." They expect a physical CD or DVD at the end of the shoot; it's the customary and standard thing to do. When I shoot an event at a night club or music venue, I find it's easiest to simply burn my files to disc, hand it to the client, and wash my hands of it. I don't need/want to store those files on a server, nor does the client want them on the internet.
When I shoot a video of a wedding or a band, they also want a DVD (most lack Blu-Ray). Online distribution there is also a big no-no, because they want to put it online themselves, and they want a physical copy for copyright reasons. But the Nikon D700 doesn't shoot video, so I guess that wouldn't concern you.
At any rate, where do you upload to, and how many GB of files do you have stored there? How much does it cost per month? Just curious.
I do not suggest that a DVD drive is needed for being a hobbyist photographer, though for working in the industry, for a lot of us, it's a must.
We burn a lot of CDs from film actually. My lab is one of the few that still processes quite a bit of film; of course a CD is the only way to film scans from a lab. Most digital shooters don't need us to burn their shots for them, but many do. When we burn from digital, a lot of times it's because of memory recovery from corrupted SD cards, which we recover and then burn onto gold archival DVDs. I'd say the average camera of customers who want things burned to disk is something like a 12-megapixel point-and-shoot or SLR; large JPGs. Camera phone people never ask for CD burns.
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No, Apple should do what they bloody well like. And you should buy a computer that fits your needs, or at least be prepared to buy the peripherals to turn it into a setup that fits your needs.
Nope. But the fact that Apple are selling enough Mac Minis without optical drives to not move them to reverse the decision to axe them, proves their point and disproves yours: they do not need to provide an internal optical drive option to sell sufficient numbers.
Apple do not exist to build computers that fit your exact, specific needs; they exist to build computers that a sufficient number of people will gladly buy for them to make a buck and continue to exist (and preferably grow) as a company.
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I haven't tried this under Lion yet, so, I will take your word for it, but, Boot Camp under Lion is not the same issue as "external DVD drive". As you describe the issues, I would agree that Apple needs to fix Boot Camp.
I'm sorry, but, I disagree completely. This has little to do with "profit margins" and everything to do with the large number of users who rarely if ever use most of the optical drives on their various computers. I use a lot of computers over the course of the week, and, on one of those computers, I sometimes use the DVD. The rest of them just sit there, get carried around (internal to the MacBook or MBP), etc. It makes much more sense to use that space and weight for something more useful, such as, another slot for another HDD or SSD, which many more people will use on an hourly basis. For those times when you need optical media, plug in your external drive. And, the external drives are not that expensive, either, compared with other things. I don't see what the big deal is.
This is a choice of the software company, but, I usually see it only on Windows games. Irrelevant to me. I never heard of "Reason"... But, what's the big deal -- plug in an external drive and insert the DVD?
Most people rarely use most of the DVD drives inside most computers-- that makes it a great candidate for being an external device that you plug in as needed.
Right on.
You bring up a very good point: instruction manuals that come on CD or DVD. Just about every digital camera or printer that is sold at my store includes drivers and instructions on optical media.
Someone might say, "You don't need drivers for digital cameras on a Mac, since it's provided with the OS."
Well that's not true. Neither Apple nor Adobe has RAW conversion for new cameras when they hit the market. It usually takes months. The Olympus E-P3 and Sony NEX-5N both lack RAW support in OS X and ACR. I had to use my DVD drive to install the manufacturer's software that came with the cameras in order to get RAW support.
Sometimes the manufacturer's software is available for download (like it is for Olympus Viewer 2) but sometime's it's not (like for Canon Digital Photo Professional).
Sorry to repeat myself, but in many ways, DVD is the new printing press. The fact that instruction manuals ship on DVD is just another example.
When I visited my girlfriend's dad in the mountains in Pennsylvania, I brought my laptop. He had a Kodak combo-printer that he bought to use as a copy machine. Had I lacked a DVD-RAM drive then I would never have been able to install the drivers for it on my MacBook Pro and make prints of his daughters for him.
He is exactly the type of individual who, if he were to purchase a Mac, would buy a Mac Mini, because he would not be able to afford more. Because he lacks internet access, a DVD drive would be a necessity for him. IMNSHO, a Mac Mini with a built-in DVD drive would be a perfect machine for people like him, but otherwise, I doubt he'd bother with it.
I would feel much safer recommending a PC friend to switch to Mac if it had a DVD drive based on this reality, and for the reasons you state, etc.
Yeah, I'll leave that for another thread.
A lot of people still do need DVD.
I care deeply about Apple and its direction. To me it's always supposed to be "the computer for the rest of us." Macs should be compatible and should be easy. They should be plug-and-play. The entry-level Mac should have basic options available, built-in. That's my stance.
The minimalistic appliance is the one that gives you everything you need in one piece. I think I have established with facts and statistics how DVD is a standard, basic necessity for many folks.
DVD is considered to be such a standard feature of computers that many people will not even think to ask whether or not one is included. You just assume it's going to be there and are flabbergasted when it's not.
The question of the day seems to be, "Is Apple innocent here, and just responding to the over-all slight market decline of DVD usage -- or are they guilty, and sacrificing the values and principles of what makes a Mac, a Mac, in order to push the decline of optical media and/or increase the sales of external DVD players and their online software & media stores?"
Whenever issues like this arise, I always favor the consumer and their interests over the corporations and theirs. But in particular because I care so deeply about the Mac itself, what makes Mac special, and Apple's overall public reputation, then I do not want to see Macs become a less superior product from a consumer perspective, especially when it might seem like a selfish move on the part of the richest company in the world.
Apple should continue to offer two models of the Mini -- one with built-in DVD, and one without -- and let dealers and consumers make the choice themselves. I can't see how that would harm Apple to do it.
If it's not a big deal why doesn't Apple built it in -- they're the computer company with $75 billion in cash. Why force the end user to scramble around for a DVD drive? Oh wait... it's a $79 BTO option from Apple
Why give it to the user "for free" when you can make $50+ of profit selling it to them? Plus you'll save $20 on each sale where the consumer didn't want a DVD anyway.
Apple is a business and they are very good at making profits. Normally I let it slide when they charge 2x as much for RAM, etc. But when they skimp on the basic Mac then someone has to stand up for the switcher. Someone has to stand up for rural America. They're not allowed to try to profit more off their base level customer by skimping standard features out of the product.
If that's not what they're doing, then why don't they just stand up and offer a built-in DVD option that doesn't cost extra? Last time I checked, the price of the Mac Mini did not go down when they took out the DVD, and as a matter of standard features they did not replace it with a secondary HDD or SSD.
I'd like to see your statistics on that one, I've provided mine.
Anyway, it's an interesting topic. Obviously there are a lot more pressing problems to humanity than this concern, but I found this to be an intriguing issue. Thanks for engaging in the debate.
I can't find the exact number of mac mini's and MBA's sold last quarter, but 4.5 million macs were sold last quarter with the bulk of them being the newly released (and optical drive void) Mac Mini's and MBA's. In fact all the articles I can find stated that Apple broke records on the amount of MBA's and Mac Mini's sold last quarter. I'd call that a pretty good statistic.
Haven't had this Mini for long & bought the optical drive partly as I still have lots of disk-based Mac games to play through. However, I also have a PC for Windows games, so I haven't rushed into setting up a Boot Camp partition on this Mini yet. Mind you, though I don't use Windows 7 only for gaming, as I've read about quite a few other people having problems with the Boot Camp installation process due to this bug, I'm holding off for now.
Re your other point: I couldn't agree more! That said, I really don't have much hope of Apple ever giving us such a Mac as it'd almost certainly cannibalize iMac & Mac Pro sales.
There are a couple of points to be made here:
1) the OP's articles quoting DVD usage (which I cannot see, the links appear to be broken) omit one key fact: most typical DVD usage is likely centered around the viewing of video media. And I would argue that the vast majority of that DVD time is done on a television, and not a computer. It is not valid to say that the average american spends 15 minutes a day using DVDs and then relate that to needing a DVD drive on the computer, because it is highly likely that the 15 minutes of DVD usage is on the television watching a movie or TV show, and not installing or using computer software (or even viewing DVD media on a computer screen). Only a relatively small minority of people view media regularly on their computers. Typically younger users like college students who don't have the spending power to buy as many things, and also don't have the room in their dorms or small apartments to have TVs and computers separately, also combine this with the fact that the younger consumer is also the one more likely to embrace new technology such as web-based media viewing.
In order for your facts around DVD usage to have any relevance, you need to positively establish that a significant fraction of the "Typical american's DVD usage" actually involves reading the DVDs on a computer, and not a standalone player. Again I can't tell if your links state this as they appear to be broken but I would not be surprised if DVD usage was generalized to include both computer-based and TV-based usage.
2) You have to understand Apple's market strategy. They do not target low end, budget conscious consumers. They know their products have cache and can attract a premium price, and as such they make premium products with high markup. They do not compete with Dell et al. and their budget, entry-level PCs, because it is a cutthroat market space that is already crowded with manufacturers. Additionally, Apple is not out to dominate the market share of the computer industry. They are okay with (and quite good at) being a producer of "boutique" and "high end" computers. In fact it could be argued that the exclusivity of Macs (in part due to their relative rarity) is part of why their products have the demand they do, hence they have some interest in maintaining the "elite" status of their product image. It would be like saying why doesn't Ferrari make a cheap and affordable sedan. They just simply aren't interested in that market space, and in fact it might even be damaging to their image as a whole (meaning a producer of high end, boutique cars) to enter it.
Again, this falls in line with the concept that they do not see the business sense in competing with big PC manufacturers on a cost basis, rather they use their unique design and marketing and branding to sell premium computer product to consumers. They have no obligation to make a Mac fit for "the masses" or one that would be popular with the enthusiast crowd. They simply do not care to enter that market space, where the margins (and thus profits) are lower, and the competition is more fierce.
With this in mind, I think it is incorrect to view the Mac Mini as their "windows switcher model" and compare it to similar PCs, because the Mac Mini is a strong standalone product that fullfills a role not available in other Apple desktops (compact, relatively economical for a Mac, and headless). It may have originally started as a mode to encourage windows users to switch to macs, but I feel it has gained enough popularity in its own right (even among mac users who use it as a primary machine, secondary machine, or HTPC, etc.) that it stands on its own as a product, and not as a "loss leader" or gateway to get people into the Mac space. The simple fact that they started offering a specialized "server" version of the Mac Mini should lend credence to this theory, as the server model certainly is not targeted at Windows switchers. The mini should not be viewed anymore as a "minimalist", "bare-bones essentials" Mac. It is as niche a product as much as the all-in-one iMac or ultraportable MBA is. It sacrifices some in the name of afforadability, and sacrifices much in the name of being very compact, and having a very low power consumption.
I would further support paulrbeers' stance that initially Apple offered a mac mini server model alongside the traditional model with included DVD drive. And, it is likely that it proved successful enough in sales that Apple realized the majority of their users don't use DVD drives on a regular basis, thus their recent decision to cut the DVD drive from all the Mac Mini models. And, this move seems to be supported by reportely strong sales numbers of new 2011 mac mini computers.
I also must contest your statement that a lot of software on Windows, or DVDs and CDs are still distributed via optical discs, and then fault Apple for "forcing their digital future" upon unwilling users. Gaming on the PC is one of the first and leading examples of a nearly-complete conversion to the digital distribution model. Starting around the release of the Steam platform, sales of retail disc, boxed-software games have declined rapidly. There are also many examples of modern games being released that may be available as boxed products, but really are just copies of the digital download put onto a disc. For example, Civilization V you can buy in a store, but you must activate it and play it on Steam even if you install it via an optical disc. There are many, many, examples of such games with similar connections to Steam or other online distribution outlets. For better or worse, online downloads are taking over as much of the Windows application space as they are for Macs.
The only place where optical media seems to retain relevance is in the video space, because it is still impractical to stream 1080p, high bitrate video to end users. And it is hard to argue against the fact that music distribution has long foregone optical media in favor of digital downloads. Yes, optical media is still sold (and yes, I typically prefer optical media for audio because I am only interested in lossless digital audio) but the brunt of music sales are all digital. Again this is not unique to Apple, it's an industry-wide thing. The fact that CDs and DVDs are available from the library matters little because you can easily get an external optical reader for the mac mini, and have access to all the optical media you want. However, this argument is fairly weak since it's kind of like saying that it's a travesty that microfilm readers are so hard to come by now since most libraries have extensive archives of newspapers stored on microfilm, so how are us end users supposed to be able to access that information? Again, this may be for better or worse, but it is the way it is and it's clear where things are going.
However, I will end in saying that I do empathize with your plight, darkgoob. It seems to me personally that Apple has focused recently more on the "mass consumer" (albeit the well-helled one who is able to afford premium luxury products) rather than the enthusiasts and high end users like they have done more so in the past. Personally losing the DVD drive is not an issue to me at all (what does irk me is that the 2011 mini server does nto come with a discrete GPU option!). I actually prefer having 2 HDDs in my mini as opposed to having 1 HDD and 1 DVD in my mini, because I would never use the DVD drive and would likely then need to keep a USB of FW hard disk connected to my mini at all times instead. I owned a MBP with optical drive and rarely used it- now I have the 2011 mini server and I simply bought an external Blu-Ray drive to go along with it. This actually serves double duty as I recently built a new Windows PC where I deliberately left out the optical drive, because I use it so infrequently and now I have the external drive to serve both computers. Anyways, my point is that I understand how frustrating it is to not find the "perfect" mac for your needs- the mac mini was a compromise on several levels for me as well, but ultimately the best choice for me given the available options.
At any rate, I believe this reply is sufficiently long-winded enough that I should just wrap up.
Ruahrc
1) the OP's articles quoting DVD usage (which I cannot see, the links appear to be broken) omit one key fact: most typical DVD usage is likely centered around the viewing of video media. And I would argue that the vast majority of that DVD time is done on a television, and not a computer. It is not valid to say that the average american spends 15 minutes a day using DVDs and then relate that to needing a DVD drive on the computer, because it is highly likely that the 15 minutes of DVD usage is on the television watching a movie or TV show, and not installing or using computer software (or even viewing DVD media on a computer screen). Only a relatively small minority of people view media regularly on their computers. Typically younger users like college students who don't have the spending power to buy as many things, and also don't have the room in their dorms or small apartments to have TVs and computers separately, also combine this with the fact that the younger consumer is also the one more likely to embrace new technology such as web-based media viewing.
In order for your facts around DVD usage to have any relevance, you need to positively establish that a significant fraction of the "Typical american's DVD usage" actually involves reading the DVDs on a computer, and not a standalone player. Again I can't tell if your links state this as they appear to be broken but I would not be surprised if DVD usage was generalized to include both computer-based and TV-based usage.
2) You have to understand Apple's market strategy. They do not target low end, budget conscious consumers. They know their products have cache and can attract a premium price, and as such they make premium products with high markup. They do not compete with Dell et al. and their budget, entry-level PCs, because it is a cutthroat market space that is already crowded with manufacturers. Additionally, Apple is not out to dominate the market share of the computer industry. They are okay with (and quite good at) being a producer of "boutique" and "high end" computers. In fact it could be argued that the exclusivity of Macs (in part due to their relative rarity) is part of why their products have the demand they do, hence they have some interest in maintaining the "elite" status of their product image. It would be like saying why doesn't Ferrari make a cheap and affordable sedan. They just simply aren't interested in that market space, and in fact it might even be damaging to their image as a whole (meaning a producer of high end, boutique cars) to enter it.
Again, this falls in line with the concept that they do not see the business sense in competing with big PC manufacturers on a cost basis, rather they use their unique design and marketing and branding to sell premium computer product to consumers. They have no obligation to make a Mac fit for "the masses" or one that would be popular with the enthusiast crowd. They simply do not care to enter that market space, where the margins (and thus profits) are lower, and the competition is more fierce.
With this in mind, I think it is incorrect to view the Mac Mini as their "windows switcher model" and compare it to similar PCs, because the Mac Mini is a strong standalone product that fullfills a role not available in other Apple desktops (compact, relatively economical for a Mac, and headless). It may have originally started as a mode to encourage windows users to switch to macs, but I feel it has gained enough popularity in its own right (even among mac users who use it as a primary machine, secondary machine, or HTPC, etc.) that it stands on its own as a product, and not as a "loss leader" or gateway to get people into the Mac space. The simple fact that they started offering a specialized "server" version of the Mac Mini should lend credence to this theory, as the server model certainly is not targeted at Windows switchers. The mini should not be viewed anymore as a "minimalist", "bare-bones essentials" Mac. It is as niche a product as much as the all-in-one iMac or ultraportable MBA is. It sacrifices some in the name of afforadability, and sacrifices much in the name of being very compact, and having a very low power consumption.
I would further support paulrbeers' stance that initially Apple offered a mac mini server model alongside the traditional model with included DVD drive. And, it is likely that it proved successful enough in sales that Apple realized the majority of their users don't use DVD drives on a regular basis, thus their recent decision to cut the DVD drive from all the Mac Mini models. And, this move seems to be supported by reportely strong sales numbers of new 2011 mac mini computers.
I also must contest your statement that a lot of software on Windows, or DVDs and CDs are still distributed via optical discs, and then fault Apple for "forcing their digital future" upon unwilling users. Gaming on the PC is one of the first and leading examples of a nearly-complete conversion to the digital distribution model. Starting around the release of the Steam platform, sales of retail disc, boxed-software games have declined rapidly. There are also many examples of modern games being released that may be available as boxed products, but really are just copies of the digital download put onto a disc. For example, Civilization V you can buy in a store, but you must activate it and play it on Steam even if you install it via an optical disc. There are many, many, examples of such games with similar connections to Steam or other online distribution outlets. For better or worse, online downloads are taking over as much of the Windows application space as they are for Macs.
The only place where optical media seems to retain relevance is in the video space, because it is still impractical to stream 1080p, high bitrate video to end users. And it is hard to argue against the fact that music distribution has long foregone optical media in favor of digital downloads. Yes, optical media is still sold (and yes, I typically prefer optical media for audio because I am only interested in lossless digital audio) but the brunt of music sales are all digital. Again this is not unique to Apple, it's an industry-wide thing. The fact that CDs and DVDs are available from the library matters little because you can easily get an external optical reader for the mac mini, and have access to all the optical media you want. However, this argument is fairly weak since it's kind of like saying that it's a travesty that microfilm readers are so hard to come by now since most libraries have extensive archives of newspapers stored on microfilm, so how are us end users supposed to be able to access that information? Again, this may be for better or worse, but it is the way it is and it's clear where things are going.
However, I will end in saying that I do empathize with your plight, darkgoob. It seems to me personally that Apple has focused recently more on the "mass consumer" (albeit the well-helled one who is able to afford premium luxury products) rather than the enthusiasts and high end users like they have done more so in the past. Personally losing the DVD drive is not an issue to me at all (what does irk me is that the 2011 mini server does nto come with a discrete GPU option!). I actually prefer having 2 HDDs in my mini as opposed to having 1 HDD and 1 DVD in my mini, because I would never use the DVD drive and would likely then need to keep a USB of FW hard disk connected to my mini at all times instead. I owned a MBP with optical drive and rarely used it- now I have the 2011 mini server and I simply bought an external Blu-Ray drive to go along with it. This actually serves double duty as I recently built a new Windows PC where I deliberately left out the optical drive, because I use it so infrequently and now I have the external drive to serve both computers. Anyways, my point is that I understand how frustrating it is to not find the "perfect" mac for your needs- the mac mini was a compromise on several levels for me as well, but ultimately the best choice for me given the available options.
At any rate, I believe this reply is sufficiently long-winded enough that I should just wrap up.
Ruahrc
How the hell is this thread still going? How is this argument even still viable?
I might point out that as much as you disagree, Apple has done it's homework. They base their products on what they know sells and combine it what their long term strategy is (e.g. how they want their customers to behave). Apple has done a fantastic job of steering their userbase into behaviors Apple wants to go.
Apple does not want it's users to use optical media. They want apps, downloadable media, cloud sharing, itunes movies, etc. If Apple makes the gamble and they begin to lose money, they will adjust their hardware releases. No amount of bitching or sending letters will change that. Sales numbers will determine a change.
Between a lack of an optical drive and spending tons of time engaging people on a forum with rants about how wrong they and Apple are, I argue the latter makes far less sense. Just decide on what you need and buy it - with the options available it's a pretty easy decision.
I might point out that as much as you disagree, Apple has done it's homework. They base their products on what they know sells and combine it what their long term strategy is (e.g. how they want their customers to behave). Apple has done a fantastic job of steering their userbase into behaviors Apple wants to go.
Apple does not want it's users to use optical media. They want apps, downloadable media, cloud sharing, itunes movies, etc. If Apple makes the gamble and they begin to lose money, they will adjust their hardware releases. No amount of bitching or sending letters will change that. Sales numbers will determine a change.
Between a lack of an optical drive and spending tons of time engaging people on a forum with rants about how wrong they and Apple are, I argue the latter makes far less sense. Just decide on what you need and buy it - with the options available it's a pretty easy decision.
I agree - mobile DVD drives seem particularly short lived, and I've had several systems (Mac laptop, PC laptop, and homebrew) on which the drive either stopped writing DVDs, got picky about reading DVDs or just plain gave up after a year or so.
While I couldn't quite live without an optical drive just yet, I use them infrequently and having an external one wouldn't be a great inconvenience. If it lived in a dust-free cupboard it would probably last longer and, if it did go phut, would be much easier to replace/get fixed. I certainly don't need an optical drive in every machine any more, nor do I need one "on the move".
Sounds like there's a bug in Boot Camp, but assuming that gets fixed, making a Windows installer on a USB stick - and keeping it - will start paying dividends the next time you repair/reinstall Windows.
Just as with the floppy, Apple ditching the DVD drive will help set the ball rolling that eliminates the need for them in the long term.
Because the thread isn't on a disk, it's downloaded and now 5 pages, do try to follow along
Your are completely on the mark. I feel great that i was able to get the last mac mini with a superdrive. I couldnt believe that the 2011 model came without it. Lion is similar. I just bought a 2011 macbook pro but i also wanted to use my office 2094 that i have on my mini and my imac. But office 04 is incompatible with lion as are a number of other programs. I went to the apple store and had them downgrade my lion to snow leopard. When i posted on thd macbook pro forum that my apple store did the downgrade with no questions asked even though apple says it cant be done i was attackec for downgrading my os AND for still wanting to use office 04. Btw i only use word 04. I have no use for powerpoint etc.