Last minute Apple silicon Mac thoughts

[DHagan4755]

Alright, as I post this, it's less than 48 hours to go until the November Apple event for the debut of Apple silicon Macs. Woohoo! So what's rumored right now are...

• Two 13-inch Apple silicon MacBook models — most likely MacBook Air & MacBook Pro
• 16-inch Apple silicon MacBook model — tentative "maybe" ??‍♂️

...All in the existing design we're all familiar with. That's it. Just swapping out the processor can't be the whole story — or can it? I noticed Apple doesn't capitalize silicon, so "Apple Silicon" isn't going to the brand name, thank god. Yet for some reason the naming of these "Mac family of processors" as A14 or A14X seems off, like they should be called an X1 or Z1. That would sound more bad ass, in my opinion.

While I'm excited for the switch I think Apple may include some other tweaks/creature comforts. Here's a list:

1. Improved battery life — Seems like a given to supposed offset of the Intel processor's power consumption. How much of an improvement can only be guesstimated. I'd like to see it 2x compared to what we have now. I can't see Apple reducing battery size as a way of reducing overall weight of these devices — but who knows?
2. 802.11ax (WiFi 6) — seems like a given since it's already on the newest iPhones & iPads.
3. Thunderbolt 4/USB 4 ports — Seems likely, yes? Since Thunderbolt 4 is a royalty free. I mean how the hell else was Craig powering that Apple Pro Display XDR in the WWDC lab video?
4. Brighter displays — Doesn't look like we'll get any real change in the display quality yet (i.e. higher resolution, ProMotion, or mini LED). So we'll get a screen that can go up to 600 to 700 nits? Might help with iPhone HDR video situation?
5. Improved FaceTime HD camera — how about something in the 1080p range? I mean 720p is so 2010...
6. Face ID — This sadly doesn't seem possible with this update, even though we got iSight cameras first in Apple laptops in the last processor transition with the MacBook Pro in 2006.

What surprises might we see?

• Like, for example, will they keep the Touch Bar in the MacBook Pro? I'd just assume jettison it — but that's more of a personal thing than a likelihood at this point.
• 5G integration — I think this possibility as very remote.
• Elimination of 2 Thunderbolt port model on the 13" MBP, it's 4 ports.
• 16" MacBook Pro preview — coming in late December or January?

Your thoughts?

Did I mention I'm excited?

 

[DHagan4755]

I forgot to add as a surprise. Windows on ARM support — coming early 2021.

 

[Harvey Zoltan]

Well I think the actual release of a redesigned AS iMac at this event is unlikely maybe there will be a preview of the new model with a release date some time in the next few months. It's what I'm waiting for.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

I noticed Apple doesn't capitalize silicon, so "Apple Silicon" isn't going to the brand name, thank god.

You are wrong.

All of Apple's slides during the WWDC keynote presentation capitalized "Apple Silicon." They have switched to mixed case spelling since then in some press releases yet continue to refer to Apple Silicon with the DTK:

macOS 15 - Apple Developer

Learn about the cutting-edge new features of macOS that you can use to build powerful apps and compelling games.

developer.apple.com

In the end, it makes zero sense to attempt to assume anything based on the capitalization of a given phrase. My guess is that Apple's legal team is attempting to trademark "Apple Silicon" anyhow.

Tim showed a slide at WWDC with this capitalization. I figure he probably reviewed the slides before he presented them.

 

[LonestarOne]

1. Brighter displays — Doesn't look like we'll get any real change in the display quality yet (i.e. higher resolution, ProMotion, or mini LED). So we'll get a screen that can go up to 600 to 700 nits? Might help with iPhone HDR video situation

Every iPad except the low-end model already has a Dolby Vision capable display. I expect that any new MacBook or iMac will as well. It would also be nice if Apple announced a new version of Final Cut to support it.

Apple pencil support is also something I’m hoping for.

 

[DHagan4755]

You are wrong.

All of Apple's slides during the WWDC keynote presentation capitalized "Apple Silicon."

Not in a recent email Apple sent to developers.

 

[Jorbanead]

You are wrong.

All of Apple's slides during the WWDC keynote presentation capitalized "Apple Silicon."

True. But this is still not what they will call it. Anytime they have announced a new product containing custom silicon chips they have used the marketing term “Apple silicon”. It’s not new to this year, it’s just been several years since they last used the term.

 

[Madhatter32]

Maybe Apple will drop the touchbar and go with a touchscreen on their laptops! That would be an improvement for many people.

 

[DHagan4755]

Maybe Apple will drop the touchbar and go with a touchscreen on their laptops! That would be an improvement for many people.

That would be quite the development!

 

[Erehy Dobon]

True. But this is still not what they will call it. Anytime they have announced a new product containing custom silicon chips they have used the marketing term “Apple silicon”. It’s not new to this year, it’s just been several years since they last used the term.

Apple needs to call it something that Joe Consumer can understand.

Joe Consumer isn't going to understand that Core i7 is Intel and A__ is Apple Silicon so they can't just identify the CPU models.

When they transitioned from PowerPC to Intel, the CPU architecture was prominently mentioned in the product name (PowerBook G4 vs. Intel MacBook).

I would expect that the Apple Silicon moniker (or another proprietary Apple trademarkable name) will be used to denote the new Mac hardware running their in-house silicon.

 

[Mr. Awesome]

Maybe Apple will drop the touchbar and go with a touchscreen on their laptops! That would be an improvement for many people.

I doubt it. Apple has stated numerous times that they're not interested in doing this.

 

[Mr. Awesome]

Apple needs to call it something that Joe Consumer can understand.

Joe Consumer isn't going to understand that Core i7 is Intel and A__ is Apple Silicon so they can't just identify the CPU models.

When they transitioned from PowerPC to Intel, the CPU architecture was prominently mentioned in the product name (PowerBook G4 vs. Intel MacBook).

I would expect that the Apple Silicon moniker (or another proprietary Apple trademarkable name) will be used to denote the new Mac hardware running their in-house silicon.

I can see them marketing it as "with Apple Silicon." But they'll also mention what chip is inside it.

 

[flyguy5]

The only thought I have is that the wait is excruciating. Every minute feels like an hour. I'm counting the seconds until Nov 10 as this Mac overheats in my lap.

 

[Nermal]

Not in a recent email Apple sent to developers.

This wouldn't be the first time that something has had one name at WWDC and then a different one for public release. One that comes to mind was the original Intel transition: There were 'Universal Binaries' announced at WWDC, which changed to 'Universal Applications' for public release. A lot of MR members kept saying 'Universal Binaries' though!

 

[Erehy Dobon]

The only thought I have is that the wait is excruciating. Every minute feels like an hour. I'm counting the seconds until Nov 10 as this Mac overheats in my lap.

My guess is that if Apple chooses to use existing chassis in the new Apple Silicon notebooks they will utilize the entire thermal envelope design.

So if it reaches ___ degrees Celsius with Intel CPUs, it'll reach the same temperature with whatever Apple calls their in-house silicon. The duration might be less.

We saw this in their home-grown iPhone SoCs both on the CPU and GPU sides. The early generations were modestly better. The turning point was when Apple released their own 64-bit ARM silicon. The competition was left speechless. My guess is that was the moment that Apple knew that they could eventually replace Intel CPUs in their PCs.

I cannot imagine that the first-generation ASi chips will be fully optimized in conjunction with the operating system. It'll be awesome but nowhere near what we'll see in future systems. My guess is that Apple will choose to reduce total TDP.

I don't need a notebook computer to run on battery power for three days between charges.

There's a bigger chance of change when Apple releases new industrial designs.

Based on the complete lack of design leaks, my guess is that Apple's first generation of Apple Silicon-powered machines will be in existing case designs. Someday Apple will change the industrial design of their Macs but I don't expect that this Tuesday.

Much like the old iPhone paradigm, the first Apple Silicon Mac generation will be a "S" release. Apple changes the guts but doesn't muck with the external design.

 

[jazz1]

Alright, as I post this, it's less than 48 hours to go until the November Apple event for the debut of Apple silicon Macs. Woohoo! So what's rumored right now are...

• Two 13-inch Apple silicon MacBook models — most likely MacBook Air & MacBook Pro
• 16-inch Apple silicon MacBook model — tentative "maybe" ??‍♂️

...All in the existing design we're all familiar with. That's it. Just swapping out the processor can't be the whole story — or can it? I noticed Apple doesn't capitalize silicon, so "Apple Silicon" isn't going to the brand name, thank god. Yet for some reason the naming of these "Mac family of processors" as A14 or A14X seems off, like they should be called an X1 or Z1. That would sound more bad ass, in my opinion.

While I'm excited for the switch I think Apple may include some other tweaks/creature comforts. Here's a list:

1. Improved battery life — Seems like a given to supposed offset of the Intel processor's power consumption. How much of an improvement can only be guesstimated. I'd like to see it 2x compared to what we have now. I can't see Apple reducing battery size as a way of reducing overall weight of these devices — but who knows?
2. 802.11ax (WiFi 6) — seems like a given since it's already on the newest iPhones & iPads.
3. Thunderbolt 4/USB 4 ports — Seems likely, yes? Since Thunderbolt 4 is a royalty free. I mean how the hell else was Craig powering that Apple Pro Display XDR in the WWDC lab video?
4. Brighter displays — Doesn't look like we'll get any real change in the display quality yet (i.e. higher resolution, ProMotion, or mini LED). So we'll get a screen that can go up to 600 to 700 nits? Might help with iPhone HDR video situation?
5. Improved FaceTime HD camera — how about something in the 1080p range? I mean 720p is so 2010...
6. Face ID — This sadly doesn't seem possible with this update, even though we got iSight cameras first in Apple laptops in the last processor transition with the MacBook Pro in 2006.

What surprises might we see?

• Like, for example, will they keep the Touch Bar in the MacBook Pro? I'd just assume jettison it — but that's more of a personal thing than a likelihood at this point.
• 5G integration — I think this possibility as very remote.
• Elimination of 2 Thunderbolt port model on the 13" MBP, it's 4 ports.
• 16" MacBook Pro preview — coming in late December or January?

Your thoughts?

Did I mention I'm excited?

Your last minute guestimate “reveal” just talked me into a MacBook Pro! Many thanks! What the heck, go big or go home ?

 

[DHagan4755]

There's a bigger chance of change when Apple releases new industrial designs.

Based on the complete lack of design leaks, my guess is that Apple's first generation of Apple Silicon-powered machines will be in existing case designs. Someday Apple will change the industrial design of their Macs but I don't expect that this Tuesday.

Agreed. I think Apple will tweak things on the existing design to allow some things that were tough with Intel, i.e. longer battery life & brighter displays, for example.

 

[flyguy5]

My guess is that if Apple chooses to use existing chassis in the new Apple Silicon notebooks they will utilize the entire thermal envelope design.

So if it reaches ___ degrees Celsius with Intel CPUs, it'll reach the same temperature with whatever Apple calls their in-house silicon. The duration might be less.

We saw this in their home-grown iPhone SoCs both on the CPU and GPU sides. The early generations were modestly better. The turning point was when Apple released their own 64-bit ARM silicon. The competition was left speechless. My guess is that was the moment that Apple knew that they could eventually replace Intel CPUs in their PCs.

I cannot imagine that the first-generation ASi chips will be fully optimized in conjunction with the operating system. It'll be awesome but nowhere near what we'll see in future systems. My guess is that Apple will choose to reduce total TDP.

I don't need a notebook computer to run on battery power for three days between charges.

There's a bigger chance of change when Apple releases new industrial designs.

Based on the complete lack of design leaks, my guess is that Apple's first generation of Apple Silicon-powered machines will be in existing case designs. Someday Apple will change the industrial design of their Macs but I don't expect that this Tuesday.

Much like the old iPhone paradigm, the first Apple Silicon Mac generation will be a "S" release. Apple changes the guts but doesn't muck with the external design.

Right now the thermals are horrifically back on my 2017 13" MBP. I originally thought I would keep this computer for 5 or 10 years but I guess Apple had other plans.

How much better are the thermals on 16"? Is it a drastic difference? Maybe this is only a 13" problem?

The number 1, number 2, and number 3 reason I am moving to AS is thermals, thermals, thermals. Everything else is second. The thermal performance of Intel Macs is worse than unacceptable. I would have switched to windows if Silicon wasn't just on the horizon.

My Mac gets about as hot as the metal part of a seatbelt in a hot car which is unacceptable. Way too hot to touch, especially for a computer, there's no way this can be normal. You could actually get burned by keeping your hand on the bottom of this computer for more than a minute. Not sure if this is common or just me.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

We'll see how Apple handles thermals in ASi Macs vs. Intel Macs. We won't see the full impact until Apple releases specific designed cases for ASi-powered systems.

Clearly, Apple is disappointed with Intel's offerings and has been for years. For Joe Consumer, this is buried in poor thermal performance, poor CPU benchmarks, high Mac chassis temperatures, etc.

I will point out that NVMe SSDs can get pretty darned hot and I won't even open the can of worms that is the discrete GPU universe.

 

[DHagan4755]

How much better are the thermals on 16"?

Depends on what I'm doing. If it's just light stuff, it's cool to slightly warm to the touch. If the discreet graphics are engaged, it gets hot to the touch & the fans ramp up.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

Tim Cook mentioned during the WWDC keynote presentation that this is a two-year transition.

That's just the product line itself. I'm of the belief that this is really a five-year transition from one architecture to another. Naturally Apple does not want to direct attention to such a situation.

I would love to be disproved as completely wrong as I am an indirect AAPL shareholder. Disclosure: I benefit from AAPL's continued success.

 

[Lauren Olivia]

I wonder if they can fit the new Magic Keyboard in the old thinner Touch Bar 13" MacBook Pro body and slim down the rest of the internals with the new chip. Honestly, as long as we get the new 1080p FaceTime HD camera and something closer to the 16" speakers I'll be happy with the same thick boy we currently have.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

Apple can fit the thinnest iPad keyboard on the planet into whatever device they want.

The inclusion of a 1080p FaceTime camera is a business decision, not a tech choice.

They could release the thinnest, finest, power-sipping device on the planet for $20,000.

But they still need to sell a bunch of these to make it worthwhile from a gross margin standpoint.

 

[Robert Dupuy]

The only thought I have is that the wait is excruciating. Every minute feels like an hour. I'm counting the seconds until Nov 10 as this Mac overheats in my lap.

I am still using mid-2010 Macbook. Which I have used for 10 years. I made the decision to replace it last week, now I am experiencing another 10 years in a week.

 

[aednichols]

Elimination of 2 Thunderbolt port model on the 13" MBP, it's 4 ports.

I believe this will be the case. And I hope so as well, because after four years with a one-port MacBook (not my only computer) I am in the market for a 4-port.

When it was introduced in 2016 the 2-port was positioned and described as the future of the MacBook Air. Recall that it did not have a Touch Bar in its first incarnation, and the MacBook Air of the time was a non-Retina clunker design from 2010.

The 2-port used and continues to use the lower power class Intel “U” series chip from the Air, and it has one fan instead of two. I would not be surprised if the weaker chip can’t support 4 TB ports; in any case the thermals will certainly be addressed by ASi.