Last minute Apple silicon Mac thoughts

[leman]

Thermals fully depend on how much heat the CPU can generate. Intel processors - no matter whether it’s the 13” or the 16” model - will consume up to 3x of their TDP for short burst. And Apple has always optimized their systems for nominal TDP - the CPU is expected to reach its maximal safe temperature when its running on its nominal power consumption. For Intel Macs, it’s 100C.

I dint expect things to be fundamentally different with Apple Silicon. It will definitely get hot under sustained load. But it will most likely get less hit that Intel stuff in short bursts everyday workloads - Apple doesn’t need to bump their power draw to 50 watts to provide decent short term performance b

 

[leman]

The inclusion of a 1080p FaceTime camera is a business decision, not a tech choice.

Thickness of the display assembly is a problem. Are there high-quality camera sensors small enough to fit in that 1-2mm space that Apple has available?

 

[machinesworking]

My guesses for Tuesday,

Alright, as I post this, it's less than 48 hours to go until the November Apple event for the debut of Apple silicon Macs. Woohoo! So what's rumored right now are...

• Two 13-inch Apple silicon MacBook models — most likely MacBook Air & MacBook Pro
• 16-inch Apple silicon MacBook model — tentative "maybe" ??‍♂️

...All in the existing design we're all familiar with. That's it. Just swapping out the processor can't be the whole story — or can it? I noticed Apple doesn't capitalize silicon, so "Apple Silicon" isn't going to the brand name, thank god. Yet for some reason the naming of these "Mac family of processors" as A14 or A14X seems off, like they should be called an X1 or Z1. That would sound more bad ass, in my opinion.

While I'm excited for the switch I think Apple may include some other tweaks/creature comforts. Here's a list:

1. Improved battery life — Seems like a given to supposed offset of the Intel processor's power consumption. How much of an improvement can only be guesstimated. I'd like to see it 2x compared to what we have now. I can't see Apple reducing battery size as a way of reducing overall weight of these devices — but who knows?
2. 802.11ax (WiFi 6) — seems like a given since it's already on the newest iPhones & iPads.
3. Thunderbolt 4/USB 4 ports — Seems likely, yes? Since Thunderbolt 4 is a royalty free. I mean how the hell else was Craig powering that Apple Pro Display XDR in the WWDC lab video?
4. Brighter displays — Doesn't look like we'll get any real change in the display quality yet (i.e. higher resolution, ProMotion, or mini LED). So we'll get a screen that can go up to 600 to 700 nits? Might help with iPhone HDR video situation?
5. Improved FaceTime HD camera — how about something in the 1080p range? I mean 720p is so 2010...
6. Face ID — This sadly doesn't seem possible with this update, even though we got iSight cameras first in Apple laptops in the last processor transition with the MacBook Pro in 2006.

What surprises might we see?

• Like, for example, will they keep the Touch Bar in the MacBook Pro? I'd just assume jettison it — but that's more of a personal thing than a likelihood at this point.
• 5G integration — I think this possibility as very remote.
• Elimination of 2 Thunderbolt port model on the 13" MBP, it's 4 ports.
• 16" MacBook Pro preview — coming in late December or January?

Your thoughts?

Did I mention I'm excited?

I think most of your ideas are solid.
Personally I think it's odd we're discussing 12" or 16" even?
I'm convinced it's likely to be 13" and 15", Apples preferred sizes for years.

Someone speculated 12 performance and 4 efficiency cores for the "16" model.
I'm guessing 8 Performance and 4 efficiency although I hope I'm wrong.

I think for the 13 we're not going to see 4 ports though, Apple seem to think you should have a hub if you need to attach more than two devices, plus less things to go wrong for them..

 

[leman]

I'm convinced it's likely to be 13" and 15", Apples preferred sizes for years.

15” is dead, replaced by 16”. I except it to get a bit thinner with Apple Silicon, but the firm factor itself is solid. Let’s not forget that the current 16” is actually more compact then the original retina 15” Mac. It’s really a 15” model with smaller bezels.

 

[motomotomoto]

I’d guess better thermals, but if rumors are true that the case is the same then little else.

 

[smoking monkey]

Personally I think it's odd we're discussing 12" or 16" even?
I'm convinced it's likely to be 13" and 15", Apples preferred sizes for years.

15"... It's dead, Jim. It's nothing but a red shirt now.
That's impressive being on this site, but not knowing the 15" is a dodo! That's some world class information blockage -- SPF MAC 5000!

On a slightly more serious note...
Predictions:
the two 13s announced and shown and available before end of November.
16" announced (fingers crossed!) and released late Dec to early Jan.
We won't see another AS mac until Spring and more than likely that'll be the 14 unless we get no news of the 16 on Tuesday which would push it(16) to a Feb release. Probably be a 24" iMac in and around the first quarter somewhere.

I'm hoping for Face ID on Tuesday, but know we aren't getting it.
I'm hoping for a few small tweaks as well apart from the new chip, but not sure what they'll be. There will be something though.

Overall I think these machines are going to crush it to the ultimate max!

 

[EntropyQ3]

I believe this will be the case. And I hope so as well, because after four years with a one-port MacBook (not my only computer) I am in the market for a 4-port.

When it was introduced in 2016 the 2-port was positioned and described as the future of the MacBook Air. Recall that it did not have a Touch Bar in its first incarnation, and the MacBook Air of the time was a non-Retina clunker design from 2010.

The 2-port used and continues to use the lower power class Intel “U” series chip from the Air, and it has one fan instead of two. I would not be surprised if the weaker chip can’t support 4 TB ports; in any case the thermals will certainly be addressed by ASi.

Maybe now that Jony Ive, the Doyen of Dongles, is out, maybe his fetish for perfectly smooth surfaces can be reasoned with and we can have our ports back. They carry basically no cost, and require negligeable space so...please?

 

[leman]

What I expect:

• Some models of entry level Mac laptops (be it an Air or a MBP). No 16" yet
• USB 4
• No major changes to the chassis
• Major performance and energy efficiency updates — in general, I expect everything to go up a tier, e.g. an Air would perform like an old 13" Pro, a 13" Pro would perform like a mid-range 16" Pro, a 16" Pro would perform like a desktop etc.

 

[ascender]

I think we'll get new internals in the current cases and that's it. As disappointing as that is, its a 2 year transition and all the rumours point to them doing this as a first step. Maybe we'll get a better webcam and some tweaks like 4 ports on all models?

Over the next couple of years we'll probably see all the new things like mini/microLED screens, ProMotion, touchscreen, FaceID etc move to the laptops, but just not yet.

Maybe the Air will go fan-less and have a massive increase in battery life thanks to the new chips.

Will be interesting to see what happens to the performance of the MBP given what the Apple Silicon chips can do when constrained by design in something like the iPad Pro.

 

[richinaus]

What I expect:

• Some models of entry level Mac laptops (be it an Air or a MBP). No 16" yet
• USB 4
• No major changes to the chassis
• Major performance and energy efficiency updates — in general, I expect everything to go up a tier, e.g. an Air would perform like an old 13" Pro, a 13" Pro would perform like a mid-range 16" Pro, a 16" Pro would perform like a desktop etc.

Probably right although I am no longer excited by speed increases I dont need in a laptop.
Its the battery, weight, heat, fans enabling new and innovative designs I was interested in. Not some repeat from 2016 with a bit more speed and less heat.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Thickness of the display assembly is a problem. Are there high-quality camera sensors small enough to fit in that 1-2mm space that Apple has available?

Not as far as I am aware of. I wonder if Apples technology is good enough to put the camera at the bottom of the screen instead, as the display could be slightly thicker there without ruining the overall look, and then use AI to shift the appearance of the face to look at the camera, despite looking at the screen, similar to what they do on iPhones.

 

[q64ceo]

Id love to see a nice 144hz display at a minimum. 240hz would be sweet.

 

[UncleMac]

As I wrote in another thread:

I just don’t believe they will release an Apple Silicon laptop in the same old (and to me: dated) chassis. Switching to AS is going to be a milestone in Apple history and represent major change for the company. It doesn’t make sense to pass on the opportunity to mark this with a new design.

I can't imagine they just throw this new silicone in the old designs. That means they will 1) Have a new design ready or 2) They will preview the new machines tomorrow and release them whenever they are ready for the market.

Still 2) would seem unlikely missing the holiday sales.

 

[thenewperson]

Maybe now that Jony Ive, the Doyen of Dongles, is out, maybe his fetish for perfectly smooth surfaces can be reasoned with and we can have our ports back. They carry basically no cost, and require negligeable space so...please?

I think a lot of you are going to be disappointed with how similarly Apple moves with regard to ports/thinness/lightness even without Jony there (I've already noticed Marco Arment has started blaming Alan Dye now for design issues).

 

[jambon]

Nobody is really mentioning MacMini. Seems easy for this to be part of the initial release given they've already released one for testing purposes... It's never going to be the headline item given its slight niche status but should be easy to get an A14X or equivalent in there and launch on day one.

Given working-from-home life, I'd be interested in one if there are no other updates to MBP beyond a processor swap.

 

[mr_roboto]

Thickness of the display assembly is a problem. Are there high-quality camera sensors small enough to fit in that 1-2mm space that Apple has available?

There aren't. People want more megapixels in the FaceTime camera, but that comes at a cost: if you don't want a grainy image, the sensor chip's X and Y dimensions have to grow. (Unlike logic silicon, you can't shrink camera pixel sensors too far. They get too noisy.) While the sensor growth is fine (it's the Z dimension that hurts), the lens needed to focus an image across its entire plane has to get quite a bit thicker, and that's where you run into problems.

Basically, the camera bump on iPhones is there for a reason, and it's the same reason why you can't put a camera as good as an iPhone's FaceTime camera into a MacBook lid. The only place I can imagine such a camera assembly could fit is the display hinge housing, right about where the "MacBook Pro" logo is in some vintages. Unfortunately, unless you're sure everyone else on your Zoom calls appreciates and enjoys seeing your nostril hair, there's some significant problems with that camera angle...

(Might be OK to put some of the specialized Face ID sensors there, if they want to bring Face ID to the Mac.)

 

[leman]

There aren't. People want more megapixels in the FaceTime camera, but that comes at a cost: if you don't want a grainy image, the sensor chip's X and Y dimensions have to grow. (Unlike logic silicon, you can't shrink camera pixel sensors too far. They get too noisy.) While the sensor growth is fine (it's the Z dimension that hurts), the lens needed to focus an image across its entire plane has to get quite a bit thicker, and that's where you run into problems.

Basically, the camera bump on iPhones is there for a reason, and it's the same reason why you can't put a camera as good as an iPhone's FaceTime camera into a MacBook lid. The only place I can imagine such a camera assembly could fit is the display hinge housing, right about where the "MacBook Pro" logo is in some vintages. Unfortunately, unless you're sure everyone else on your Zoom calls appreciates and enjoys seeing your nostril hair, there's some significant problems with that camera angle...

(Might be OK to put some of the specialized Face ID sensors there, if they want to bring Face ID to the Mac.)

Yeah, it is also my understanding that this is the real reason behind the lower quality webcam on Apple Macs. Some laptop tried going the nosecam route — and it ain't pretty.

 

[leman]

Id love to see a nice 144hz display at a minimum. 240hz would be sweet.

Why??

 

[ascender]

When you look at all these little challenges, I guess that's why it makes sense for them to just swap out the internals on their laptops as a first step, then look at a brand new design as a second stage.

 

[q64ceo]

Why??

I am a gamer. The higher the refresh rate the higher the frame count will display. 1hz means that in one second the display redraws itself one time. A 60hz display redraws itself at 60 times a second. A 144hz display redraws itself at 144 times per second. You can have a badass graphics card that goes up to 120fps on your favorite game, but if you have a display with a refresh rate of 60hz, you are only seeing a maximum of 60fps. Gamers who have higher display refresh rates have a competitive advantage.

 

[ascender]

Personally I think it's odd we're discussing 12" or 16" even?

Gurman mentioned last week he's expecting two 13" machines and a 16" at the event tomorrow.

 

[Falhófnir]

I was a little surprised the 24" iMac redesign seemed a go for ages but has suddenly disappeared off the radar. A few different leakers actually got behind it so I wonder if it has been pushed back or the rumours just overestimated how close it was to launch? I guess being a big physical change it left a lot of supply chain fingerprints that were easy to pick up on early.

 

[Falhófnir]

Thickness of the display assembly is a problem. Are there high-quality camera sensors small enough to fit in that 1-2mm space that Apple has available?

The only way I see around this is to eliminate the taper towards the screen edge like the Razer Blade and Surface Laptop among others do. It does make the computers look quite a bit bulkier though. Sort of like the display being an iPad Pro of itself! Maybe they can come up with a novel solution, though the trend towards ultra slim bezels will only make this more difficult as the camera has to move closer to the edge.

 

[leman]

I am a gamer. The higher the refresh rate the higher the frame count will display. 1hz means that in one second the display redraws itself one time. A 60hz display redraws itself at 60 times a second. A 144hz display redraws itself at 144 times per second. You can have a badass graphics card that goes up to 120fps on your favorite game, but if you have a display with a refresh rate of 60hz, you are only seeing a maximum of 60fps. Gamers who have higher display refresh rates have a competitive advantage.

We are talking about Macs though. If you are a competitive gamer, shouldn’t you be looking at appropriate gaming PCs instead? There is no way that a Mac laptop is going to be powerful enough to render competitive games at 140+ FPS.

 

[q64ceo]

We are talking about Macs though. If you are a competitive gamer, shouldn’t you be looking at appropriate gaming PCs instead? There is no way that a Mac laptop is going to be powerful enough to render competitive games at 140+ FPS.

You'd be surprised