Certainly. I assume if a real workstation update to the Mac Pro is in development that it will likely come with lifting that 96 GB limit with some OS X revision around the same time. We currently have 128 GB plugged into a "2012" Mac Pro in my lab hoping this will happen one day. So far 10.8.1 and no dice yet....
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Let's rev up some excitement for the 2013 Mac Pro!
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Certainly. I assume if a real workstation update to the Mac Pro is in development that it will likely come with lifting that 96 GB limit with some OS X revision around the same time. We currently have 128 GB plugged into a "2012" Mac Pro in my lab hoping this will happen one day. So far 10.8.1 and no dice yet....
12/16 DIMM slots probably aren't coming. May get 8/16 DIMMs slots. I suspect though Apple is just going to bet on memory density increasing over the new basic case design lifetime. [ If come with a new case it will be the same basic design for next 5-8 years. If Xeon E5's moving to DDR4 then bulking up on "cheap" DIMMs is going to be a thing of the past; not future. ]
If limited to just one case for the whole Mac Pro line up and keeping the "CPU/RAM" daughter-card to maximize overlap then:
In short, move all persistent storage to top thermal zone and increase air flow through the middle "PCI-e card" zone.
1. In top thermal zone. only one 'multipurpose' bay. A cage that either holds ODD or front facing, lockable drive sled. (or USM socket ). Nominally this is empty.
2. Four 2.5" drives in the former lower ODD bay area
3. move front I/O sockets panel to old lower ODD bay location and rotate horizontal. Smaller additional intake fan also in this new area.
4. Widen (in horiz orientation) the main motherboard a place a bigger gap between PCI-e sockets.
5. Larger diameter "PCI-e card" zone fan with internal facing baffles changed to new slot spacing. (diameter extends up into vacated drive sled area. Also may need to tweak case width slightly for new fan so have clearance for removable side panel.). Alternatively, two, side-by-side ingest fans in front of cards (again one of which extending into vacated drive sled area ). Each fan for just 2 slots.
6. on rear. move the latch up to upper half, so more airflow exits above cards in PCI-e card thermal zone. Minimally up enough so higher than the double spaced slot(s).
7. Make Mac Pro case 1-2" deeper (front to back) to support larger CPU/RAM card connector(s) and more widely spaced electronics. May also need to widen (side-to-side) case for this card about 0.3-0.6".
[ Not sure will fit in Apple's design constraints for "under/on standard desk" but to get to 8 DIMMs slots per socket would need to add around 5" to the depth. That would make the Mac Pro about 23" deep. That is not going to fit under some common desks. ]
8. Figure a way to make the handles on either end removable/detachable, so get back to standard rack width in horizontal orientation. ( don't impact cooling per se , but if much more noisy when fully packed can move to machine room. )
If they think Mac Pro can support two two different cases that largely overlap in design, but one just scaled smaller then:
Most of the above only would loose CPU/RAM daughter card so would have different sized motherboards.
A. Make the dual CPU socket case gets taller. Expand width of the CPU thermal zone so RAM paths are different than CPU paths. Add slight more width between PCI-e slots than above so that have at least 3 "double wides". [ probably wouldn't fit in standard rack in horizontal config and will be "deskside" boxes. Upside probably could possibly get the 16 DIMMs into the box.]
B. The single CPU socket case looses a PCI-e slot (or two if Thunderbolt present and need to add embedded GPU. ). Spacing on remaining 2-3 slots gets wider. [ probably can horizontal rack this. ]
Most hot running, double wide cards designs these days will ingest alot of air from the side and expel it out slots on the cards external facing edge. The challenge to get enough cool air to those ingest points. That means wider cards spacing. If move other significant heat sources (e.g, disks ) out of the PCI-e card zone and increase the airflow with larger diameter fan it should be OK without raising the noise decibel level too much. Apple's target levels are lower than most.
DDR4 DIMMs are going to start at 8GB. The standard line up will probably be 8GB , 16GB , and 32GB for first generation. 4 (or 8) 16GB modules is way above the current norms for a Mac Pro ( 64 and 128 ). 32GB are going to initially be out of price reach for most, but case design is oriented for the long term when those won't be.
I am starting to think that the 2013 Mac Pro, or whatever they call it will be out of reach for most people, especially those like me who just use it as my server machine. My PowerBook G4 is my everyday machine as I do light stuff and web browsing, and thanks to coreplayer, able to play 720/1080p youtube stuff.
My 2010 Mac Pro is used as a remote file and print server.
My 2010 Mac Pro is used as a remote file and print server.
The Mac Pro is a very simple concept and the argument for why Apple should continue to pour their best resources into it is succinct and eternal.
1. Personal computers are ultimately for forwarding human progress through productivity. An "ultimate" Macintosh for the professional who needs all the power they can get is invaluable and essential.
2. See #1.
1. Personal computers are ultimately for forwarding human progress through productivity. An "ultimate" Macintosh for the professional who needs all the power they can get is invaluable and essential.
2. See #1.
We don't understand you Mac Pro users!
When we market the iPod there's the:
a. iPod
b. iPod mini
c. iPod nano
d. iPod shuffle
e. iPod touch
f. iPod classic
g. Enough colors to make a rainbow jealous!
When we market the iPhone 4 there's the:
a. iPhone 4
b. iPhone 4s
c. iPhone 4sh
d. iPhone 4shi
e. And we skipped the final 4 model to introduce iPhone 5 in Sept!
But when we try and give you useless in-between Mac Pro models you call them speed bumps! What do you Mac Pro users want, more colors? OK! Like the ibook clamshell laptops we will give you more colors! Or like many PC users we will put colored fan cards in your pcie slots!
What if we put an "i" in the title of the next Mac Pro. You are the only one's that don't have it.
What, you're trying to think different? Would you like your "i" to stand for intelligent?
You Mac Pro users need to stop looking behind the curtain as the show is going on!
When we market the iPod there's the:
a. iPod
b. iPod mini
c. iPod nano
d. iPod shuffle
e. iPod touch
f. iPod classic
g. Enough colors to make a rainbow jealous!
When we market the iPhone 4 there's the:
a. iPhone 4
b. iPhone 4s
c. iPhone 4sh
d. iPhone 4shi
e. And we skipped the final 4 model to introduce iPhone 5 in Sept!
But when we try and give you useless in-between Mac Pro models you call them speed bumps! What do you Mac Pro users want, more colors? OK! Like the ibook clamshell laptops we will give you more colors! Or like many PC users we will put colored fan cards in your pcie slots!
What if we put an "i" in the title of the next Mac Pro. You are the only one's that don't have it.
What, you're trying to think different? Would you like your "i" to stand for intelligent?
You Mac Pro users need to stop looking behind the curtain as the show is going on!
Your optimism is baffling, amusing and quite funny at the same time. Keep it up!
Hey, if toys can't meet the progress of humanity where it is at right now, and continue to carry it forward, professional workstations at the forefront of technology will have to do the job, and if Apple stops making them, they'll simply be opting out of the game of human and artistic progress.
I suppose it could happen.. it's just so... so.... SO not Apple.
This is why they should make 2 different cases:
1. beautiful design
- cpu & ram soldered to motherboard (not because there any benefit, other than shortened lifespan)
- ssd only (also artificial limitation)
- no ODD (nothing gained from smaller chassis volume, but done anyway, because "ODD is so old fashion")
2. power design
- second ODD dropped (maybe added some 2.5" slots)
- enough ram slots
- finally some current gpu cards
- (sledless storage bays and sliding door for them would be nice...)
Sadly, I think only option 1 will become reality, if there ever even will be another MP. "Something really great for later next year" for FCP and Shake meant scrapping everything. Why not for MP? And I wouldn't be surprised if "later next year" meant "after christmas 2013". iApple haven't been in hurry before, why it would be now? Their developers have their hands full with iPads and retinaDisaplays.
This is the most alarming hint.
Again, I wouldn't be surprised that late next year, they will announce that they were developing update-bumb for MP, but since "hardly no-one was buying MP anymore", they decided to scrap the MP and started to develop miniPro, which will offer far better price-power ratio in all aspects and became available in late 2014. And since this kills also macMini sales they have new announcement in late 2014...
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My MacBook Pro is about as fast as my Mac Pro now for almost everything.
At this point I've given up.
Only if they make it 2-3x faster will I even consider it. I don't care for case redesign. I want performance. In fact as long as my current peripherals work I'm fine with it, but again it needs to a significant performance advantage over my portable.
At this point I've given up.
Only if they make it 2-3x faster will I even consider it. I don't care for case redesign. I want performance. In fact as long as my current peripherals work I'm fine with it, but again it needs to a significant performance advantage over my portable.
If you look at adobe and others advertising to edit from their servers, not yours, cloud computing, you can bet apple is about to join in with a dumb down Mac pro or just a plain dumb terminal to hook into there servers (for a fee of course) to process the customers jobs. do your own research on how many already started offering this crap. Of course you could do small stuff at home but doubt large projects will be able to be performed at home. Look how dumbed down FCX is already. Those mega server farms apple built isn't just for messages and iOS gaming. Those dismissing this model will be in for a rude awakening when apple announces this service.
For the love of God, don't do that Apple! Don't! If anybody important is reading this right now, just don't. Stop. Stop. That's right. Go... undo everything you've begun to develop down that trajectory. You can do it. Go ahead. We want a #*$&^@*&#^$*#&@^%*&$^%(*$&^%(*&$^(%*&#^)$&^#*&^$%&*@#^%$*&@^% professional machine.
Give it to us.
We want to give you our money.
End of story.
Give it to us.
We want to give you our money.
End of story.
My MacBook Pro is about as fast as my Mac Pro now for almost everything.
At this point I've given up.
Only if they make it 2-3x faster will I even consider it. I don't care for case redesign. I want performance. In fact as long as my current peripherals work I'm fine with it, but again it needs to a significant performance advantage over my portable.
I agree, but extra USB, FireWire, thunderbolt, PCIe and hard drive bays always make a difference
Well of course there will be less activity here, but that's to be expected.
Everyone who wants a Mac Pro knows there will be no news until 2013 and so there isn't really much to talk/read about in September 2012.
MacBook Pro's on the other hand are being updated almost as we speak. Rumours of 13" retina displays and so on, so of course there will be much greater activity in those forums than this.
I'm one of the few 'non pros' that is absolutely desperate for a new Mac Pro.
Apple needs to understand that it's not just pro's who buy pro gear - look at digital SLR's for the proof of that.
Hell, look at synths, tennis rackets, golf clubs etc etc.
My Mac pro is the centre of my home recording studio where I write and record music on it, so I love having the ability to add extra HD's and optical drives internally without loads of external PSU's and cabling (I have enough of them already). I also like being able to add extra USB sockets (great for dongles) and firewire ports and love that it runs cool and is nice and quiet (even under load), something VERY important when you're recording audio in a small room.
I've owned Apple towers since the G3's - I just love them.
They've been really well designed compared to their contemporaries (the hinge door on the G3 tower for example, or the A/V inputs on the 9600).
The biggest mistake Apple made was making owning a tower so expensive. Now only the true 'pro' or very rich can afford to buy one!
My first 2.66Ghz Mac Pro cost me £1399 - £300 more than an entry level iMac at the time.
The current Mac Pro is £2049. That's £1050 more than a current iMac and £700 more than a Mac Pro model in 2006. No other Mac has seen this kind of price increase, which has resulted in it becoming marginalised.
Many people (like me) want one, we just can't afford to keep paying the ever increasing price tag.
If (as has been implied) Apple do introduce a new Mac Pro in 2013, they have an opportunity to really make a statement and introduce an entry level one for £1500 or so (perhaps i7 based) - for the 'semi pro's' like me!
I know 4 or 5 people currently using iMacs simply because they couldn't afford an Apple tower (which is what they want to use), so the iMac is really the only alternative. I'd wager a significant portion of iMac users have been coerced into the purchase in this way - a situation completely contrived by Apple.
So yes there will be more activity on other Forums, but 2013 could be an opportunity to change all that.
Apple haven't 'WOWED' us in a long time - lets hope the 2013 Mac Pro could be the product to do just that and be the Mac we've all been waiting for!
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After an online crash course in "cloud computing", Mr. Campbell I think your outlook is cynical at best!
1. Just because their servers go down and your data is on them does not mean you can not access your data from them
2. If their servers are down does not mean your business is down (for days!)
.3. If their servers are hacked and your data compromised is just a chance you will have to take
4. They (Lawyers) are debating now who owns the "data" when it is on their servers
5. Just because iApple stops making MP's they are not trying to corral their users and lead them toward "cloud computing"
6. Just because iApple only allows you to upgrade OS online now, does not mean they will try and eventually have "cloud" only software
"Based on the overwhelming positive feedback and use of our cloud computing, we at iApple proudly announce, "hands off"! We heard you and no longer will you have to spend hours searching for software on your computer! No more spending hundreds of dollars in gas going to buy software! We have made it easy for you. Just click on "software update" and download our zap app! This app renders all your current software useless except for internet. You will need this of course to go online to purchase all your apps from us to use on cloud computing!
"And no we (iApple) don't have our heads in the clouds, our heads are somewhere else!"
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I just sold a loaded 3,1 tower.... cash is going to sit and wait.
soooo not buying a 5,1.. even used. It's just good money after bad.
my macbook pro benches as fast as the 3,1 i just sold. scary.
soooo not buying a 5,1.. even used. It's just good money after bad.
my macbook pro benches as fast as the 3,1 i just sold. scary.
Why not visit Netkas and make your 2009 into a 2010? With the right processor upgrade, you can probably make it 2x faster, or at least be in the ball park.My MacBook Pro is about as fast as my Mac Pro now for almost everything.
At this point I've given up.
Only if they make it 2-3x faster will I even consider it. I don't care for case redesign. I want performance. In fact as long as my current peripherals work I'm fine with it, but again it needs to a significant performance advantage over my portable.
Apple haven't 'WOWED' us in a long time - lets hope the 2013 Mac Pro could be the product to do just that and be the Mac we've all been waiting for!
Amen to the whole post. And wow, Jazzy, 74 posts in 10 years..how did you do that?
After an online crash course in "cloud computing", Mr. Campbell I think your outlook is cynical at best!
1. Just because their servers go down and your data is on them does not mean you can not access your data from them
2. If their servers are down does not mean your business is down (for days!)
.3. If their servers are hacked and your data compromised is just a chance you will have to take
4. They (Lawyers) are debating now who owns the "data" when it is on their servers
5. Just because iApple stops making MP's they are not trying to corral their users and lead them toward "cloud computing"
6. Just because iApple only allows you to upgrade OS online now, does not mean they will try and eventually have "cloud" only software
"Based on the overwhelming positive feedback and use of our cloud computing, we at iApple proudly announce, "hands off"! We heard you and no longer will you have to spend hours searching for software on your computer! No more spending hundreds of dollars in gas going to buy software! We have made it easy for you. Just click on "software update" and download our zap app! This app renders all your current software useless except for internet. You will need this of course to go online to purchase all your apps from us to use on cloud computing!
"And no we (iApple) don't have our heads in the clouds, our heads are somewhere else!"
Huh? Some of your points seemed to contradict each other. In any case, overall it confirms my sentiment to be opposed to cloud computing.
So not Apple? To think that Apple actually cares about advancing human and artistic progress by means of desktop workstations that a small minority of their customers actually buy is borderline delusional. Apple is now (and has been for a while) a lifestyle company that wants to sell consumer gadgets. The corporate name change from Apple Computer to Apple, Inc. is a testament to this.
Numbers don't lie. Apple's desktops (Minis, iMacs, Pros) accounted for a whopping 3.7% of their Q3 2012 revenue. Three years prior (Q3 2009), this number was 13.5%. That's a pretty sharp decline that tells us pretty clearly that people aren't buying as many desktop computers as they were three years ago. And given the lofty entry prices on the current Mac Pros, I'd be shocked if Mac Pros account for even 5% of Apple's total desktop sales. (all we can do is guess because Apple doesn't itemize the three desktop lines in their fiscal reports.
I don't think anything else can possibly explain the lazy "update" the Mac Pro got this year. In business, low sales are addressed in one of two ways:
1. Let the product die and discontinue it. Apple did it to the XServe. Don't think they wouldn't do it to the Mac Pro.
2. Improve the product and/or market it better. Clearly, Apple is more interested in improving iOS devices, as of late. They simply bring in more revenue (iPhones accounted for 46% of Q3 2012 sales). And have you ever seen a commercial for the Mac Pro on TV? I haven't. Heck, most Apple customers don't even know what a Mac Pro is...seriously. Most of Apple's customers are iPhone owners who don't even own a Mac.
I don't know what else to say other than the fact that times are a changin'.
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So in other words, revenue from desktops increased, from $1.1 billion (13.5% of $8.34 billion) in Q3 2009 to $1.3 billion (3.7% of $35.0 billion) in Q3 2012.
The thing that irks me THE MOST, is the thought that I, personally, could just take the MP branch as it is and in almost no time could manage a nice profit and make A LOT of people really happy. And not that I consider myself a genius. Just the usual awesomeness.
And it's win-win for everybody involved..except DELL or HP
And it's win-win for everybody involved..except DELL or HP
"Beautiful" ? How about extremely dubious.
a. The Mac Mini doesn't have soldered RAM and yet is smaller. What does soldered CPU & RAM have to do with beautiful design. Nevermind the Xeon CPU packages are not conducive to being soldered onto a motherboard.
b. Soldered RAM would likely have longer lifespan, not shorter. [ If talking about the overall system being kneecapped by soldered RAM, not sure how that makes it beautiful. ] However, for 8-16GB soldered RAM makes the volume larger, not smaller since it takes up more horizontal room. If wanted to make the Mac Pro 0.7" thin they might be a design issue. With a couple of inches there are as many downsides to soldered RAM as there are upsides when dealing with workstation sized RAM capacities.
c. ODD is being dropped not so much because it is a huge volume consumer (especially in a box with large heat sinks and cavernous PCI-e bays), but because it isn't being used the vast majority of users.
With extremely low overlap between parts in the two boxes it is quite likely that one or the other would not surface.
Apple was driven to "merge" the single and dual package offerings with a daughtercard in the current Mac Pro. If their design and operational requirements haven't changed radically then they will still be a high requirement for a very large amount of overlap in the updated design.
Option 1 already effectively exists. It is the iMac or at the very least the iMac of the immediate, 1-2 year, future. That has little to do with whether Apple rolls out with a Mac Pro replacement in 2013 or the workstation market.
Shake was a multiple platform application that turned out to be a dead end for Apple as they tried to turn it into a single platform offering. So they dropped it. The "super duper Shake" rumors really had no meat behind them. There is extremely little to indicate they were based on valid information and actually work that was being fast tracked for release. It is equally likely they were rumor forum hype that got built up in some positive feedback loop.
FCP overlaps as much with the Mac Pro in that it probably is time to significantly rethink the core design constraints of the Mac Pro. That doesn't necessarily mean smaller though.
If there is a "simplification" Apple will make with the Mac Pro it is far more likely that they will eliminate all GPU functionality from being in detachable, classic form factor, PCI-e cards. Not that an embedded GPU will be the only GPU but neither will the PCI-e card variant.
That is extremely unlikely. Apple knows they have invoked the Osborne Effect on the Mac Pro. So they would have to be almost idiotic to not anticipate further substantive drop offs in Mac Pro sales. Since this drop off is self inflicted even the kool-aid drinkers can't really seriously propose this is a customer motivated drop off. This drop off is not gong to "spook them".
Similarly, if the major influencers inside want to use the "numbers have been dropping over a long period" argument they could have used that now in 2012 to kill it off. From the hiccups and staleness of the most recent update it appears that the Mac Pro might have been declared dead internally in 2011, but resuscitated in late 2011 or early 2012.
It is far more likely that they have resigned themselves to taking the 8-14 month hit to get to possible better long term situation. Once Apple has what it believes to be market competitive offerings they'll likely let the market decide the future. Apple appears to be betting they can make the workstation market work for the next several years.
If the Mac Pro gets cancelled it is extremely more likely it is because folks do not buy the 2013 models in substantive numbers when they do arrive. At that point Apple will point to that action ("customers aren't buy a competitive product") and walk away. Minimally it more likely will be 2014-15 before Apple takes any action about shutting down the Mac Pro permanently.
Kills off Mac Mini? What are you smoking?
By 2014-15 the Mac Mini will be close to the current entry level Mac Pro in horsepower and Thunderbolt will likely be into the mature price range. If anything the Mac Mini will be even more competitive against its cohorts in 2014-15 than it is now. [ Presumng there is not a general populous "killer app" that comes along that needs monster horsepower. Given the track record over last 5-8 years that is not likely. l
The Mac that Mac Pro has more overlap with is the iMac when it comes to performance. Again by 2014-15 a "iMac Pro" is slightly more likely as any "miniPro" to appear. That is plenty of time for Apple to 'copy' the essentials from HP Z1 into a Apple styled body.