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askunk

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 12, 2011
547
430
London
Will Apple bring the 120Hz maximum refresh rate, with variable refresh even for separate areas of the screen using iPad Pro's ProMotion?

Will the display support 8K or 5K? What format do you expect? Wide or superwide?

What I/O will it support and what hardware do you believe it will incorporate?

FaceID? 1080p FaceTime cam?
 

aaronhead14

macrumors 65816
Mar 9, 2009
1,243
5,324
I hope it's still 16x9, and at least 5K. 8K would be cool though. HDR support would also be fantastic, especially if it supports Dolby's software CMU in DaVinci Resolve. It would be awesome to bring true HDR grading to the masses. I also hope there's a 32" model, and not just a 27".
 
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mattspace

macrumors 68040
Jun 5, 2013
3,330
2,966
Australia
It will be Thunderbolt 3 only. It will be an 8+2(frc) display, that Apple will market as a 10 bit display, and only after a third-party disassembly is done and the panel is identified will this come out. It will not be able to be directly hardware calibrated, it will not have a user-accessible (14bit) LUT, and it will be considered a joke within the professional image space, which is owned by Eizo, NEC & Benq these days.
 

rawweb

macrumors 65816
Aug 7, 2015
1,126
943
It will be Thunderbolt 3 only. It will be an 8+2(frc) display, that Apple will market as a 10 bit display, and only after a third-party disassembly is done and the panel is identified will this come out. It will not be able to be directly hardware calibrated, it will not have a user-accessible (14bit) LUT, and it will be considered a joke within the professional image space, which is owned by Eizo, NEC & Benq these days.

Whoops. You forgot one thing...it won't have a power button. ;)

It would be great if it was as glorious as the 30" ACD was received in 2004. For the era, that thing was insane. Both specs and price. Let's hope it's not $3,000.
 
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mavericks7913

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Apple don't care about other industries such as photography so the color space will be P3 for sure. 5K is possible too. But will they gonna support 10 bit color, hardware calibration, and professional grade monitor? There are tons of professional monitors already available. Apple probably gonna use a glossy finished monitor but it's BS. None of them are glossy panel but matte panel.

The most important fact is that Apple is not a professional monitor manufacturer.
Eizo, BenQ, and NEC make much better monitors and systems. Apple does not able to do that and they charge tons of money on it. So I totally doubt about Apple making monitors for a new Mac Pro since Eizo, BenQ, and NEC already manufacturing professional monitors. So why do we need an Apple monitor for?
 

Moonjumper

macrumors 68030
Jun 20, 2009
2,746
2,935
Lincoln, UK
Whoops. You forgot one thing...it won't have a power button. ;)

It would be great if it was as glorious as the 30" ACD was received in 2004. For the era, that thing was insane. Both specs and price. Let's hope it's not $3,000.

As the iMac retina screen is the 27” Cinema Display pixel doubled, I hope the new pro screen is the 30” Cinema Display pixel doubled, so 5120x3200. 16:10 is a much better screen ratio for many types of work.
 
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mavericks7913

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May 17, 2014
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If they don’t have a matte option, don’t even talk to me.

+1

I have no idea why Apple is still using glossy screens for? Literally all professional grade monitors are matte screens. I never ever seen glossy screens from Eizo, BenQ, and NEC.

First of all, what's the point of making Apple monitor?
 
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eksu

macrumors 6502
Aug 3, 2017
329
151
While we are all throwing out baseless guesses, I’ll go ahead and say the monitor will support adaptive sync and a MacOS update will launch supporting air as well and it will be called ‘ProMotion’
 

saulinpa

macrumors 65816
Jun 15, 2008
1,261
763
I don't have much faith other than it will be something they can show off on stage. They will want it to look nice (better than the LG ones they sell). Does Apple even know what sync and refresh rate mean? For them "pro" means editing videos for iPhones.
 

eksu

macrumors 6502
Aug 3, 2017
329
151
Does Apple even know what sync and refresh rate mean? For them "pro" means editing videos for iPhones.

I mean, I understand it’s popular to hate on Apple, but this is satire right?

https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/

120HZ device, with adaptive frame rate (idk if the screen scan rate is tied to the gpu draw rate or not. It’s called “Pro Motion”.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
Will Apple bring the 120Hz maximum refresh rate, with variable refresh even for separate areas of the screen using iPad Pro's ProMotion?

ProMotion doesn't break down to sub areas of the screen. However, one upside of being plugged in is that the higher refresh rate isn't going to "deplete the battery". It would make sense. The foundational technology is simply just part of the DisplayPort technology. ( but not the "sub areas" part. ).


Will the display support 8K or 5K? What format do you expect? Wide or superwide?

It will extremely likely be the same panel that is in the 27" iMac ( or whatever the large screen iMac is that sells in substantive volume. ). Apple is unlikely to pick some a super low volume panel to put in this display ( 8K is highly likely out. ). If the iMac panel has ProMotion then the display will have ProMotion. If the iMac panel doesn't ...... stand alone display docking station won't.

So super wide? No. Wider than an iMac? No.

What might hope for is that get two sizes. 21.5" (that is much more affordable) and 27" as opposed to "wide" and "ultrawide".

ProMotion would also sink 8K. There are bandwidth problems with 8K. Cranking up the refresh rates only makes that dramatically worse.


What I/O will it support and what hardware do you believe it will incorporate?

One USB Type-C port probably with Thunderbolt v3. ( perhaps a small chance a variation where they do some tap dancing and have another port that is for Type-C Alt mode DisplayPort. )

A core primary market for these displays is going to be Mac laptops ( MacBook Pro mostly. If two sizes then most). I think folks are completely off base thinking that the Mac Pro is almost the only driver here. It won't be. Too small (both the base pool and the fact that there are lots of options here.... NEC , Ezio, Dell, HP , etc. ). It is more expansive for Apple to sell docks as displays. That is probably not going to change.

Nor will there be some shortage of options. One of NEC's recent ( Summer 2018) displays the PA271Q has a Type-C connector.
"...
Input Terminals
Connectors:
DisplayPort, Mini DisplayPort, HDMI (2), USB Type-C, USB hub (3 up / 3 down) with DisplaySync Pro ..."

While technically not thunderbolt v3 , a TB v3 port can supply the DP alt mode that needs with a decent C-to-C cable (not a "race to the bottom" cable or random, but some). Type-C ports on displays are coming. There will probably more previewed/announced at upcoming CES in the 4K 9and smaller) resolutions.


FaceID? 1080p FaceTime cam?

FaceID ? Probably, no. It isn't secure if have a open cable can be trivially mutated. Also no direct connection to the T2 chip. In an iMac the whole IR sensor return and camera can both be directly fed into the T-series chip. If decouple the T-series from the sensors then don't have a secure path. ( Apple could through more silicon at it. A secure comm chip in the display that is secure paired with the T-series but drifting into Rube Goldberg zone. Simplest to 'save' that as an iMac (Pro) feature. )


Facetime high resolution?

Recent macrumors thread ... Yes, the 2018 MacBook Air's FaceTime HD Camera is Awful

If a huge fraction of the potential buyers don't want the camera, then HD 720 versus 1080 probably isn't going to pump
So I wouldn't bet on it. A bit of an argument to drop the camera all together. When paired with a Mac laptop there already is a camera... which could be hooked to FaceID. The other upper 25 percentile "pro" monitors don't have cameras. ( the LG UltraFine 4K doesn't have camera past ambient light sensor probably due to bandwidth issues ). The problem with slapping iphone/ipad cameras into the monitor is that average shooting distance is different from even the laptops. ( bigger the screen the farther away the subject is going to be. That is a IR dot projection issue too if shooting for very high fidelity. ) up sales.
In the context of "bezels are the ultimate evil" mania in the tech porn press, dumping the camera could allow the industrial design folks to go "even thinner" OCD mode.

If Apple wanted to do something on their "Champions of privacy" sales pitch would be a hardware privacy shutter.... if the Industrial Design crew's OCD doesn't get in the way.
[doublepost=1546638691][/doublepost]
....
First of all, what's the point of making Apple monitor?

Which context?

Mac laptop docked with the monitor in a workplace setting where the work takes laptop to different locations (home / work) where they gets things done. One cable hook to monitor's fixed location's power , bigger screen ( maybe ethernet or another broader spectrum doc. ). [ The Mac Pro is just piggybacking off of that. doesn't particularly need the power, but port expansion could be useful. Most "Pro" monitors have a USB hub, so 'more ports at literal desktop level ' is market value issue. ]

Apple bundles AppleCare on Mac to display if buy them together. ( some folks want "one throat to choke" via one purchase order. )

Simplicity .... System Preferences controls the monitor. It isn't another set of menus and buttons to learn.


For context that is going from mostly calibrated (start off high and may drift a bit over time) HDR screens to other HDR ( or 'less') screens the notion of princess and the pea LUT adjustment don't really matter as much. Changing mediums exposes different implement's deviations from the standard, but if sticking to the same medium all the time... where is the big drift going to come from (other than super old versus super new products.)? [ Does that encompass the whole Pro monitor market? No. Is it enough to justify making and selling some that hit this subset.... probably yes. Most of the other Pro market monitor vendors think so because they sell stuff in this range too. ]
[doublepost=1546639462][/doublepost]
....

The most important fact is that Apple is not a professional monitor manufacturer.
Eizo, BenQ, and NEC make much better monitors and systems. Apple does not able to do that and they charge tons of money on it. So I totally doubt about Apple making monitors for a new Mac Pro since Eizo, BenQ, and NEC already manufacturing professional monitors. So why do we need an Apple monitor for?

What does someone who is perhaps buying a Mac Pro to serve as a audio DAW workstation need a Eizo or top end PA class NEC monitor for? Someone working on computational workflows and documenting/publishing the results?

Folks are pointing at a niche that is a smaller subset of the what the Mac Pro actually covers. Most Mac Pro are probably not in color space "peeping" ( like "pixel peeping") mode workflows. For the subset range that is then Apple monitors probably weren't the dominate choices before. Apple probably isn't trying to change that balance. In the subsets where they did have some moderate dominance they probably would like to hold on to those. ( and the LG Ultrafine results probably indicated they could do that by "proxy" through a third party. Nobody else could probably survive selling only what Apple will probably make... a Mac only solution. )
 
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Draeconis

macrumors 6502a
May 6, 2008
987
281
Obviously it's anyone's guess, but I'd say that for now, this new screen catagory will probably be 5K, 27". 8K will come soon though I bet. P3 colour gamut, FaceTime camera of some description (the iMac Pro has a FaceTime camera.. so).

Like the more modern iMac designs, I'd surmise the display will be laminated to the glass, and it'll be thinner (oh so much thinner) apart from the area that's required to house the transformer.

Anything TB2 connecting to it will probably run at 1440P, provided it can support that resolution. For example, this is what happens currently when you connect a Mac Pro 2013 to one of the LG UltraFine 5K displays through a TB2 to TB3 adapter. They have this visible in Apple Stores, the few that still actually display the Mac Pro 2013 that is..

Rear IO will probaby match the TB Cinema Display, though may well include USB-C alongside USB3.1 ports.

As for the more Pro features that Eizo or BenQ do, I also doubt that'll materialise. Happy to be proved wrong ;) Mind you, might feature 'True Tone' like on the 2018 MacBook Pros.. which isn't all tht similar, but kinda Apple's style of 'Pro'.
 

mavericks7913

Suspended
May 17, 2014
812
281
ProMotion doesn't break down to sub areas of the screen. However, one upside of being plugged in is that the higher refresh rate isn't going to "deplete the battery". It would make sense. The foundational technology is simply just part of the DisplayPort technology. ( but not the "sub areas" part. ).




It will extremely likely be the same panel that is in the 27" iMac ( or whatever the large screen iMac is that sells in substantive volume. ). Apple is unlikely to pick some a super low volume panel to put in this display ( 8K is highly likely out. ). If the iMac panel has ProMotion then the display will have ProMotion. If the iMac panel doesn't ...... stand alone display docking station won't.

So super wide? No. Wider than an iMac? No.

What might hope for is that get two sizes. 21.5" (that is much more affordable) and 27" as opposed to "wide" and "ultrawide".

ProMotion would also sink 8K. There are bandwidth problems with 8K. Cranking up the refresh rates only makes that dramatically worse.




One USB Type-C port probably with Thunderbolt v3. ( perhaps a small chance a variation where they do some tap dancing and have another port that is for Type-C Alt mode DisplayPort. )

A core primary market for these displays is going to be Mac laptops ( MacBook Pro mostly. If two sizes then most). I think folks are completely off base thinking that the Mac Pro is almost the only driver here. It won't be. Too small (both the base pool and the fact that there are lots of options here.... NEC , Ezio, Dell, HP , etc. ). It is more expansive for Apple to sell docks as displays. That is probably not going to change.

Nor will there be some shortage of options. One of NEC's recent ( Summer 2018) displays the PA271Q has a Type-C connector.
"...
Input Terminals
Connectors:
DisplayPort, Mini DisplayPort, HDMI (2), USB Type-C, USB hub (3 up / 3 down) with DisplaySync Pro ..."

While technically not thunderbolt v3 , a TB v3 port can supply the DP alt mode that needs with a decent C-to-C cable (not a "race to the bottom" cable or random, but some). Type-C ports on displays are coming. There will probably more previewed/announced at upcoming CES in the 4K 9and smaller) resolutions.




FaceID ? Probably, no. It isn't secure if have a open cable can be trivially mutated. Also no direct connection to the T2 chip. In an iMac the whole IR sensor return and camera can both be directly fed into the T-series chip. If decouple the T-series from the sensors then don't have a secure path. ( Apple could through more silicon at it. A secure comm chip in the display that is secure paired with the T-series but drifting into Rube Goldberg zone. Simplest to 'save' that as an iMac (Pro) feature. )


Facetime high resolution?

Recent macrumors thread ... Yes, the 2018 MacBook Air's FaceTime HD Camera is Awful

If a huge fraction of the potential buyers don't want the camera, then HD 720 versus 1080 probably isn't going to pump
So I wouldn't bet on it. A bit of an argument to drop the camera all together. When paired with a Mac laptop there already is a camera... which could be hooked to FaceID. The other upper 25 percentile "pro" monitors don't have cameras. ( the LG UltraFine 4K doesn't have camera past ambient light sensor probably due to bandwidth issues ). The problem with slapping iphone/ipad cameras into the monitor is that average shooting distance is different from even the laptops. ( bigger the screen the farther away the subject is going to be. That is a IR dot projection issue too if shooting for very high fidelity. ) up sales.
In the context of "bezels are the ultimate evil" mania in the tech porn press, dumping the camera could allow the industrial design folks to go "even thinner" OCD mode.

If Apple wanted to do something on their "Champions of privacy" sales pitch would be a hardware privacy shutter.... if the Industrial Design crew's OCD doesn't get in the way.
[doublepost=1546638691][/doublepost]

Which context?

Mac laptop docked with the monitor in a workplace setting where the work takes laptop to different locations (home / work) where they gets things done. One cable hook to monitor's fixed location's power , bigger screen ( maybe ethernet or another broader spectrum doc. ). [ The Mac Pro is just piggybacking off of that. doesn't particularly need the power, but port expansion could be useful. Most "Pro" monitors have a USB hub, so 'more ports at literal desktop level ' is market value issue. ]

Apple bundles AppleCare on Mac to display if buy them together. ( some folks want "one throat to choke" via one purchase order. )

Simplicity .... System Preferences controls the monitor. It isn't another set of menus and buttons to learn.


For context that is going from mostly calibrated (start off high and may drift a bit over time) HDR screens to other HDR ( or 'less') screens the notion of princess and the pea LUT adjustment don't really matter as much. Changing mediums exposes different implement's deviations from the standard, but if sticking to the same medium all the time... where is the big drift going to come from (other than super old versus super new products.)? [ Does that encompass the whole Pro monitor market? No. Is it enough to justify making and selling some that hit this subset.... probably yes. Most of the other Pro market monitor vendors think so because they sell stuff in this range too. ]
[doublepost=1546639462][/doublepost]

What does someone who is perhaps buying a Mac Pro to serve as a audio DAW workstation need a Eizo or top end PA class NEC monitor for? Someone working on computational workflows and documenting/publishing the results?

Folks are pointing at a niche that is a smaller subset of the what the Mac Pro actually covers. Most Mac Pro are probably not in color space "peeping" ( like "pixel peeping") mode workflows. For the subset range that is then Apple monitors probably weren't the dominate choices before. Apple probably isn't trying to change that balance. In the subsets where they did have some moderate dominance they probably would like to hold on to those. ( and the LG Ultrafine results probably indicated they could do that by "proxy" through a third party. Nobody else could probably survive selling only what Apple will probably make... a Mac only solution. )

1. There are tons of options available. Why would anyone buy Apple display for? Just because of Thunderbolt 3 ports? Even previous Apple monitors were far from professional monitor. How much did they charge for their monitor btw? Around $1000? Wow. In these days, you can get P3 or Adobe RGB monitor with matte panel, hardware calibration, 10 bit color, LUT 16 bit, calibration software, and more.

2. Do you really think Eizo is the only option for Mac Pro's display? No. Dell, BenQ, NEC, Viewsonic, and more. First of all, Display port is way important than Thunderbolt 3 for monitor connection and I really doubt that Thunderbolt 3 is really that important in terms of connection for viewing.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
1. There are tons of options available. Why would anyone buy Apple display for?

There are lots of phone makers so Apple should just quit the phone market. There are lots of folks who make keyboards and mice so Apple should just quit making discrete keyboards, mice, and track pads? The fact that there are competitors isn't as material as whether Apple can compete and sell enough to be profitable (and worth investing the funds to be in the market). Why would folks buy from Apple? If the Mac was a good enough reason to by the computer Apple has gotten over a major hurdle. They are an option that is "on the table". The Apple keyboard , mouse , and/or trackpad probably fits and works with the Mac. The display will fall into the same presumptive category of "just works".

The Apple display will be a "default" for composing a complete Mac system for more than a few buyers. Apple doesn't have to "kill" the other vendors. They just have to sell enough to be worth the investment. That's it.


Just because of Thunderbolt 3 ports?

The one cable solution will matter. Apple doesn't sell any wired keyboards or mice anymore. More than a few folks like having fewer cords to deal with. TypeC in either DisplayPort alt mode or Thunberbolt v3 alt mode moves a two ( or three in laptop space ) cords solutions into a one standardized cord solution. That has value and traction.

Even previous Apple monitors were far from professional monitor.

Professional enough for folks to earn an income with them. When Apple says "pro display" they are talking about folks who make money with the Mac system (including the display). They aren't talking about the penultimate exhaustive feature check list that covers every imaginable possible usage.

How much did they charge for their monitor btw? Around $1000?

The NEC PA271Q I linked in earlier is $1,299 and at the same resolution than the old Thunderbolt Display docking station ( 2560x1440 ). The Apple model has less and costs less. Is the new NEC suitable for 4K editing work? In several cases, no Is it not suitable for any professional work? Again, no. And NEC seems to think it is useful somewhere since they need a new monitor middle of last year.

More folks grumbled at the cost of the display being stuck in time with fixed features at least as much as the price point threshold.

Wow. In these days, you can get P3 or Adobe RGB monitor with matte panel, hardware calibration, 10 bit color, LUT 16 bit, calibration software, and more.

In the "old" days Apple was only selling one, maybe 2, monitors. Most of these other folks are selling 10, 20, 30 ... monitors. Finding some feature that Apple wasn't covering isn't hard. Having a monitor product is more a "nice to have" for Apple than absolutely required.


2. Do you really think Eizo is the only option for Mac Pro's display? No. Dell, BenQ, NEC, Viewsonic, and more.

You have the wrong pronoun about. That should be an 'I". It csn't be refering to me because I didn't say that at all. The two references I made to Eizo...

" NEC , Ezio, Dell, HP , etc. " and " need a Eizo or top end PA class NEC monitor for? "

were in the context of multiple vendors. So how I was singling out Eizo as the only option is a deep mystery. Typo in the first group list, yes. What you have done is created a misdirection from the point I brought up and don't have a rational answer for. That there are Pros who don't need any of those top end "super features" monitors (e.g., audio , software, dataviz , etc. ).


First of all, Display port is way important than Thunderbolt 3 for monitor connection and I really doubt that Thunderbolt 3 is really that important in terms of connection for viewing.

The farther the Mac Pro is placed from the monitor the more this is actually a feature that will matter. It won't increase in stature to be the primary feature, but it is important. if the Mac Pro's usb sockets are relatively harder to get to (e.g., the Mac Pro is under/below the disk ) than the monitor's ports then those monitor ports become value add if have a wider range of uses. Running solely a DisplayPort (or HMDI) specific cable to the monitor will render the USB ports on that monitor useless. For those who want to also use the ports Thunderbolt is a value add. If want to charge devices off the monitor... again value add if the monitor has a variety of charging features built in.

Does that solve world hunger? Nope. Are they a differentiating feature for a class of users? Yes.

There is a non-zero chance that the front ports will disappear from the next Mac Pro. Even higher if it somehow remains a literal desktop solution from Apple. The 4 TBv3 plus 4 Type USB Type A on the back (like the iMac Pro) may be all the next Mac Pro delivers. Mac Pro under/beside the desk those will be even harder to get to relative to the monitor's ports. Even if there are 1-2 on the front they'll probably be limited to USB 3 gen 1 (not gen 2 which the monitor would have at least one of via Thunderbolt ) .

It wouldn't be surprising for Apple to take the current iMac's 2 TBv3 plus 4 USB Type-A and stick that on the back of the monitor using approximately the same case with the computer logic board gutted down to thunderbolt and a reasonable USB controller for the Type As that Apple has a driver for they are happy with feed into a x1 PCI-e fed. Camera and audio fed into two of the other x1 feeds and call it done. (if want to use all three put a SDXC card reader on the back. Or piggy back the SDXC on USB and put the whole set of ports from the iMac back there with Ethernet. ). The camera , mic, speakers, etc. could be "Same stuff, different product " in almost the same 'container'. ( Apple will probably remove the power button and some other minor tweaks to balance it correctly since a bit lighter.)

More than decent chance they may not just re-use the iMac panel but a big chunk of the chassis too. Just gut the logic board and put a smaller, much simpler one in there instead. Call that the new "Pro monitor".

The mini gutted and coming back with the exact same form factor... wouldn't be surprising for them to repeat that. Especially, if they are putting effort into adjusting the Mac Pro case and want to minimize Industrial Design team resource utilization. The monitor is a 'side project' to the Mac models and reusing the iMac baseline would crank up the reuse of R&D that has higher priority.
 

mavericks7913

Suspended
May 17, 2014
812
281
There are lots of phone makers so Apple should just quit the phone market. There are lots of folks who make keyboards and mice so Apple should just quit making discrete keyboards, mice, and track pads? The fact that there are competitors isn't as material as whether Apple can compete and sell enough to be profitable (and worth investing the funds to be in the market). Why would folks buy from Apple? If the Mac was a good enough reason to by the computer Apple has gotten over a major hurdle. They are an option that is "on the table". The Apple keyboard , mouse , and/or trackpad probably fits and works with the Mac. The display will fall into the same presumptive category of "just works".

The Apple display will be a "default" for composing a complete Mac system for more than a few buyers. Apple doesn't have to "kill" the other vendors. They just have to sell enough to be worth the investment. That's it.




The one cable solution will matter. Apple doesn't sell any wired keyboards or mice anymore. More than a few folks like having fewer cords to deal with. TypeC in either DisplayPort alt mode or Thunberbolt v3 alt mode moves a two ( or three in laptop space ) cords solutions into a one standardized cord solution. That has value and traction.



Professional enough for folks to earn an income with them. When Apple says "pro display" they are talking about folks who make money with the Mac system (including the display). They aren't talking about the penultimate exhaustive feature check list that covers every imaginable possible usage.



The NEC PA271Q I linked in earlier is $1,299 and at the same resolution than the old Thunderbolt Display docking station ( 2560x1440 ). The Apple model has less and costs less. Is the new NEC suitable for 4K editing work? In several cases, no Is it not suitable for any professional work? Again, no. And NEC seems to think it is useful somewhere since they need a new monitor middle of last year.

More folks grumbled at the cost of the display being stuck in time with fixed features at least as much as the price point threshold.



In the "old" days Apple was only selling one, maybe 2, monitors. Most of these other folks are selling 10, 20, 30 ... monitors. Finding some feature that Apple wasn't covering isn't hard. Having a monitor product is more a "nice to have" for Apple than absolutely required.




You have the wrong pronoun about. That should be an 'I". It csn't be refering to me because I didn't say that at all. The two references I made to Eizo...

" NEC , Ezio, Dell, HP , etc. " and " need a Eizo or top end PA class NEC monitor for? "

were in the context of multiple vendors. So how I was singling out Eizo as the only option is a deep mystery. Typo in the first group list, yes. What you have done is created a misdirection from the point I brought up and don't have a rational answer for. That there are Pros who don't need any of those top end "super features" monitors (e.g., audio , software, dataviz , etc. ).




The farther the Mac Pro is placed from the monitor the more this is actually a feature that will matter. It won't increase in stature to be the primary feature, but it is important. if the Mac Pro's usb sockets are relatively harder to get to (e.g., the Mac Pro is under/below the disk ) than the monitor's ports then those monitor ports become value add if have a wider range of uses. Running solely a DisplayPort (or HMDI) specific cable to the monitor will render the USB ports on that monitor useless. For those who want to also use the ports Thunderbolt is a value add. If want to charge devices off the monitor... again value add if the monitor has a variety of charging features built in.

Does that solve world hunger? Nope. Are they a differentiating feature for a class of users? Yes.

There is a non-zero chance that the front ports will disappear from the next Mac Pro. Even higher if it somehow remains a literal desktop solution from Apple. The 4 TBv3 plus 4 Type USB Type A on the back (like the iMac Pro) may be all the next Mac Pro delivers. Mac Pro under/beside the desk those will be even harder to get to relative to the monitor's ports. Even if there are 1-2 on the front they'll probably be limited to USB 3 gen 1 (not gen 2 which the monitor would have at least one of via Thunderbolt ) .

It wouldn't be surprising for Apple to take the current iMac's 2 TBv3 plus 4 USB Type-A and stick that on the back of the monitor using approximately the same case with the computer logic board gutted down to thunderbolt and a reasonable USB controller for the Type As that Apple has a driver for they are happy with feed into a x1 PCI-e fed. Camera and audio fed into two of the other x1 feeds and call it done. (if want to use all three put a SDXC card reader on the back. Or piggy back the SDXC on USB and put the whole set of ports from the iMac back there with Ethernet. ). The camera , mic, speakers, etc. could be "Same stuff, different product " in almost the same 'container'. ( Apple will probably remove the power button and some other minor tweaks to balance it correctly since a bit lighter.)

More than decent chance they may not just re-use the iMac panel but a big chunk of the chassis too. Just gut the logic board and put a smaller, much simpler one in there instead. Call that the new "Pro monitor".

The mini gutted and coming back with the exact same form factor... wouldn't be surprising for them to repeat that. Especially, if they are putting effort into adjusting the Mac Pro case and want to minimize Industrial Design team resource utilization. The monitor is a 'side project' to the Mac models and reusing the iMac baseline would crank up the reuse of R&D that has higher priority.

1. Default by paying $1000 just for the monitor with a glossy panel? What a joke.

2. All graphic card vendors use DP instead of Thunderbolt 3 port. If Mac Pro is going to be modular, then supporting DP is way more important. Speaking about TB3 is meaningless in terms of graphic card connection since they don't like TB3 .
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
1. Default by paying $1000 just for the monitor with a glossy panel? What a joke.

Dogma is a joke. With modern panel construction techniques, HDR range of brightness, and intelligent ambient lighting adjustments, 'glossy' isn't the same thing it was 10=18 years ago. It is also a bit of chuckle for the folks purportedly the ultimate fanatics about color fidelity to also be fanatical about layers stuff on panel to partially suppress the light coming through the panel with those colors.


2. All graphic card vendors use DP instead of Thunderbolt 3 port. If Mac Pro is going to be modular, then supporting DP is way more important. Speaking about TB3 is meaningless in terms of graphic card connection since they don't like TB3 .

This is alot of contrived nonsense. Standard Thunderbolt 3 is a superset of DisplayPort data traffic. TBv3 isn't 'blocking' DisplayPort usage in any material fashion that rises above overly simplistic and almost enitrely superficial form over function observation. The function of DisplayPort is cover by TBv3 in all of Apple's current (and likely future) implementations. The next Mac Pro with TBv3 ports can hook to almost any 3rd party monitor with the right cable.
( you are poin to a form issue. For example, Macs with mini-DisplayPort sockets and monitors with full sized DisplayPorts. Get the right cable and it is a non issue. ). Same for TBv3 ports.

The generic graphic card vendors probably are not filling the contract for the default Mac Pro GPU subsystem. So they aren't particularly relevant to an Apple Mac Pro hooked to an Apple "Pro Display". It will just work.

Your "All" isn't all that connotatively true. ( the notion that "nobody is combining USB and video onto a single cable out of a graphics card". VirtualLink is yet another Alt mode where suppress the USB 2 channel to eek out some more bandwidth. )

https://www.cnet.com/news/nvidia-oculus-and-valve-agreed-on-a-new-one-cable-usb-c-vr-hookup/

with cards actually shipping.

"... Turing GPUs are designed with hardware support for USB Type-C™ and VirtualLink™*. VirtualLink is a new open industry standard being developed to meet the power, display, and bandwidth demands of next-generation VR headsets through a single USB-C connector. ..."
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/technologies/vr/

The issue of merging multiple cables into a fewer number is coming. It is a general trend that has real products with uptick associated with it. In the very narrow, "color grading" market it isn't going to come over the near term? No. ( That aspect is a context to single out Eizo as they are about the slowest adopter of changes in monitor connectors. Eizo will probably be in the last set of adopters to this trend line. ). However, that isn't the whole market.

Type-C isn't exactly equivalent to Thunderbolt, but the same doors that USB Type-C goes through Thunderbolt gains some traction. Over shorter distances a quality C-to-C cable is a "one cable to fit them all" solution. There are differences when length ( as with monitors to more remotely placed computers ), but that may not be as huge a cap over time. ( all the protocols have very similar very high speed versus long copper cable issues. Thunderbolt is just out in front on that issue. )


Now will the folks who declare that Apple's default GPU subsystem in the Mac Pro is "evil" buy an Apple Pro monitor ? No. Does Apple need them to have a viable product? No. Is Apple going to throw their "Pro monitor" under the bus so that more 3rd Party monitors vendors can have 100% of the Mac Pro market? I wouldn't bet on that at all. Is the Mac Pro only Mac they are targeting with this new monitor? Extremely probably not. They are probably going to target almost all recent Macs with this monitor. There is zero indication that the Mac Pro all by itself is a viable monitor market. Apple is probably building this monitor for the Mac ecosystem; not simply solely for the Mac Pro (or Mac Pro users ).
 

jtara

macrumors 68020
Mar 23, 2009
2,008
536
I think it will be pretty ho-hum. Exactly the display built-in to the iMac Pro. 5K. Which is a much-needed thing that will add to Apple's bottom line. Given the typical use cases for an iMac Pro, almost everyone who buys one uses an external monitor. Developers, photo editors, video producers, all need all the screen real-estate they can get. Apple is currently giving up revenue to display makers.

I predict it will look EXACTLY like an iMac Pro. You will not be able to tell them apart from the front.

Not that the iMac Pro display is really ho-hum. It's amazing, other than Apple's infatuation with reflective display surfaces. (Which does give a clearer appearance, but you have to control reflections in the room.)

Of course, in addition to pleasing iMac Pro owners, it will be a good choice for use with a recent Macbook Pro or Mac Mini (2018).

I doubt very much that it would be 8K. Apple doesn't make any products that support 8K. I could see 8K as a future variant in a year or two.

I suspect it may come in more than one physical size, and perhaps a choice of 4K/5K. There may be a side-benefit for all that comes out of this, in that they might update the display drivers to provide more scaling options to make 4K usable in more physical sizes than currently. The current situation is really ridiculous. There needs to be more flexibility about font sizing, and UI elements have got to be made predominantly in vector format, to work on any resolution and magnification.

I note that the iMac Pro does offer OK flexibility in this regard!
 

askunk

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 12, 2011
547
430
London
ok.. so far it seems we have gathered good convergence on:

* 27-30"
* 16:9 / 16:10
* HDR
* TB3 single cable connection
* USB-C Gen2 Hub
* 5K (8K less likely, even more if they implement ProMotion)
* no colour calibration
* glossy finish
* ultra-thin bezels

and a few of us think we will see higher frequencies than 60Hz, very likely 120Hz.

what it seems to be the more obscure points are:

* LCD or newgen qOLED?
* colour accuracy?
* integrated 1080p webcam/mic
* FaceID / TouchID
* additional I/O

Anyone has the rotten fantasy of an eGPU slot on the back of the display? :D
 
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