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Mascots

macrumors 68000
Sep 5, 2009
1,667
1,418
What now?
JavaScript is the modern foundation of our web experience today - with such a great responsibility, there can be abuses. JavaScript could be better, much better, but it's a pretty solid language given its roots and what it needs to cover. Any failures in usage and learning, by way of attitude or resistance are on the developer. People have used JavaScript to achieve some incredible things and, as an example, Node is nothing sort of great. PHP is awful, but it opened the gateway in a similar way.

A site seeing Mobile Safari and assuming that it is a -mobile- device without reading the rest of the summary, which includes notations for devices, is a failure on the developers part. Apple can do nothing about that since they provide everything for splitting them apart already... which does suck. And IMO, and after years of work in it, I think responsive web is best because you can be ready for things like split screen, new devices, and unexpected situations without much or any prep. And from the development side it's much more efficient and consistent. Other ways to differentiate the web introduce failures that make the web sucks for general users. But then again, I'm someone who will execute as much through CSS as possible - I say CSS has no limits! ;]

@Krev - and from my above statement, I have issues with M Safaris rendering, and how it constructs the pages during compile time that have led me into trivial scenarios while crafting intense styles. Edge case, but inconsistencies with other browsers for sure. And the more general scrolling-page-turn-white symptom of that problem.
But mainly, my issue is with the lack of documentation for the ends and outs that I've had to strive to learn and work around. For example, since the hover element is nonexist on iOS, hover can be intrepretted as tap one, and then the actual click on tap two but only if content is being shown or hidden and in certain ways - which works great in most situations - but is nothing sort of awful to work around when something unexpected happens. And random other mobile browsers don't work like that, meaning hacks for one or the other making things very fragile.
These ends and outs are a great cause of inconsistencies on sites where inputs don't work, or things just feel off and the lack of documentation available to help clear those out before they're even conceptualized is minimal
[doublepost=1461847850][/doublepost]
The crazy part is that a lot of these sites are really big corporations (Virgin America, for instance). Are the management so blind that they are unwilling to spare a few thousand to improve their customers' experiences via debugging? It's crazy to me, and absolutely upsetting that I feel so powerless to bring about such change.

Unless your company is built around it (a la Facebook), many of the leaders in large companies see it as a waste (when they have something 'good enough') or don't understand the amount of resources required. It takes a passion to drive those things and many of those with that passion aren't driving the company. And it takes effort, not because of mobile Safari, but because of all of the fragmented lenses we view the net through in general.
 
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xsdeus

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 24, 2012
152
68
San Diego, CA
As others stated, using Safari, means the site will think of it as a mobile device, i.e, an iPhone and not present the user with a site that's more suited for a larger display.

This is one of the drawbacks, I have with a "Pro" product that is running iOS. I know in this case, it may not be entirely Apple's fault but that doesn't change the issue in that the mobile site is being pulled up on a product that could use the desktop version.

I agree. I have no qualms about sites loading different pages optimized for touch input, but when developers screw up responsive design, what you end up with is a page optimized for a 5.5" screen (iPhone) showing up on a 12.9" screen that is more than 3 times as large.
 

brent12

macrumors member
Jun 24, 2013
39
13
A lot of the problems arise because sites categorize the Safari on iPad as mobile. If they just would automatically feed their regular desktop site when the browser ID reports in as an iPad browser, a lot of these problems would be solved.

I have a web-based accounting system integral to my livelihood that irritatingly does this, and subsequently ruins the UI usability as menus get pushed down and become unsighted because they put a big "Show mobile site" in the header menu for all iPad browsers. This happens even when requesting the desktop site, because the site is set up to display that stupid menu item regardless if the browser ID reports in as iPad, even the 12.9" iPad Pro, thought the principle is the same throughout the line-up, all the way down to the mini.

I encounter these things often enough, and even really good alternatives like iCab have enough limitations compared to Safari that they aren't viable options. (functionality of new tab links, menus, etc that work fine on Safari don't on the alternatives.)

iPad Safari just shouldn't be considered mobile for the purposes of the Web at this point.

Long press on the browser refresh button offers to tell website this is a desktop browser!
 

asleep

macrumors 68040
Sep 26, 2007
3,773
1,631
One last quick tip - In Safari on iOS, a long press on the "reload page" circled arrow will get you quick access to choices for "Request Desktop Site" and "Reload Without Content Blockers".

Thanks for all of that info,

And especially that last little tip. I missed that.
handshake.gif
 

MyopicPaideia

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2011
2,155
980
Sweden
Long press on the browser refresh button offers to tell website this is a desktop browser!
Yeah, but it doesn't change that actual browser ID - several sites I use show something that resembles the full desktop site, but insert undesirables in the UI that make menus and accessing full features a real pain in the &$$.
 

masotime

macrumors 68030
Jun 24, 2012
2,865
2,841
San Jose, CA
Yeah, but it doesn't change that actual browser ID - several sites I use show something that resembles the full desktop site, but insert undesirables in the UI that make menus and accessing full features a real pain in the &$$.

"actual browser ID"?

What websites are you referring to? Specific examples?
 

asleep

macrumors 68040
Sep 26, 2007
3,773
1,631
Wrong answer. Flash is quite literally one of the worst things ever to happen to the web...


You'll be happy to see...

Ars: HTML5 by default: Google’s plan to make Chrome’s Flash click-to-play
Top 10 sites will be whitelisted, everything else will default to HTML5
Google will be taking another step towards an HTML5-only Web later this year, as the systematic deprecation and removal of Flash continues.

In a plan outlined last week, Flash will be disabled by default in the fourth quarter of this year. Embedded Flash content will not run, and JavaScript attempts to detect the plugin will not find it. Whenever Chrome detects that a site is trying to use the plugin, it will ask the user if they want to enable it or not. It will also trap attempts to redirect users to Adobe's Flash download page and similarly offer to enable the plugin

There will be a few exceptions to this policy, with Google planning to leave Flash enabled by default on the top 10 domains that depend on the plugin. This list includes...
 

SoYoung

macrumors 68000
Jul 3, 2015
1,548
956
"actual browser ID"?

What websites are you referring to? Specific examples?

Also, just to point out that the load desktop option on mobile safari did not work for every site. A good bunch of websites just reload the mobile version when you try to do that.

And by browser id we mean, the website still think you are on mobile safari, thats why it doesn't work properly. A good app to force websites to load the browser id you want is iCab. I always use this app when I want to really force a page to load in desktop mode, plus you can load versions for multiple browser like safari, chrome, firefox, explorer etc.
 
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masotime

macrumors 68030
Jun 24, 2012
2,865
2,841
San Jose, CA
Also, just to point out that the load desktop option on mobile safari did not work for every site. A good bunch of websites just reload the mobile version when you try to do that.

And by browser id we mean, the website still think you are on mobile safari, thats why it doesn't work properly. A good app to force websites to load the browser id you want is iCab. I always use this app when I want to really force a page to load in desktop mode, plus you can load versions for multiple browser like safari, chrome, firefox, explorer etc.

Specific examples of these "good bunch of websites"....?
 

pika2000

Suspended
Jun 22, 2007
5,587
4,903
Flash is dead. Android does not even support Flash anymore.
Ever since I had the original iPad, I actually found that the lack of Flash to be a non issue.

If I had an iPad Pro, my biggest worry would be the reliance of a regular computer for troubleshooting. If I bought the iPad Pro, it should be a truly standalone device. If it still needs to be plugged to iTunes for problems, it's a showstopper for me.
 
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Hal~9000

macrumors 68020
Sep 13, 2014
2,184
2,183
If I had an iPad Pro, my biggest worry would be the reliance of a regular computer for troubleshooting. If I bought the iPad Pro, it should be a truly standalone device. If it still needs to be plugged to iTunes for problems, it's a showstopper for me.

The only situation I can think of that you'd need a computer is to either:
  1. Jailbreak it
  2. Restore it after you jailbreak
Anything else seems like can be done right on the iPad itself, or fixed with a simple "Erase All Content & Settings".
 
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SoYoung

macrumors 68000
Jul 3, 2015
1,548
956
You need iTunes for more things, like if you want to install betas on your iPad for exemple, you will need it to make back ups and if you want to go out of the beta program and re install the current iOS version. You also need iTunes if an upgrade over the air get stuck at the apple logo (ok, it just happen one time in like, 5 years, but still, I was glad to have the option when I needed)

I lové my pro and I, too, think it can replace a laptop for majority of everyday task, but it still depends on a real computer to solve more serious problem, or if you want to install beta's. I hope someday, iOS device will be 100% independent device.
 

xraydoc

Contributor
Oct 9, 2005
11,033
5,493
192.168.1.1
Also, just to point out that the load desktop option on mobile safari did not work for every site. A good bunch of websites just reload the mobile version when you try to do that.
Sites that don't serve up the desktop page when requested are specifically hard-coded to serve the mobile page to the iPad regardless of what the device's browser is asking the website to serve.

As far as I'm concerned, these websites are downgrading on purpose and I will avoid them whenever possible.
 
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marcociccone

macrumors member
Sep 29, 2014
66
21
I think it's a shared responsibility. On one side a lot of vendors still have a desktop/mobile website, and not a reponsive one. On the other side, I think Apple should change Safari's User Agent into the iPad Pro (at least the 12.9) because it's size is like a laptop. But overall I think at the end it's just vendors' ignorance as they still reason on a mobile/tablet/desktop world, and not a universal world with different screen sizes.
 

bensisko

macrumors 65816
Jul 24, 2002
1,471
1,307
The Village
You need iTunes for more things, like if you want to install betas on your iPad for exemple, you will need it to make back ups and if you want to go out of the beta program and re install the current iOS version. You also need iTunes if an upgrade over the air get stuck at the apple logo (ok, it just happen one time in like, 5 years, but still, I was glad to have the option when I needed)

I lové my pro and I, too, think it can replace a laptop for majority of everyday task, but it still depends on a real computer to solve more serious problem, or if you want to install beta's. I hope someday, iOS device will be 100% independent device.

If you're installing Beta versions of the OS, or performing other developer tasks, I would consider that a unique case. I haven't connected any of my iPads to a computer since the day they implemented over the air updates (the exception being to use it as a second screen for my laptop with Duet Display).
[doublepost=1464092890][/doublepost]
Flash is dead. Android does not even support Flash anymore.
Ever since I had the original iPad, I actually found that the lack of Flash to be a non issue.

If I had an iPad Pro, my biggest worry would be the reliance of a regular computer for troubleshooting. If I bought the iPad Pro, it should be a truly standalone device. If it still needs to be plugged to iTunes for problems, it's a showstopper for me.

It is for all intents and purposes, though I don't understand why it HAS to be.
 

pika2000

Suspended
Jun 22, 2007
5,587
4,903
Just look at the 9.3.2 bug.
If Apple cannot even guarantee a complete standalone functionality for troubleshooting problems, it's hard for me to accept the iPad Pro as a Pro device, let alone a "post PC" device. What kind of post PC device if it still needs to be tethered to a PC when it is having problems?
It is for all intents and purposes, though I don't understand why it HAS to be.
 

MyopicPaideia

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2011
2,155
980
Sweden
Just look at the 9.3.2 bug.
If Apple cannot even guarantee a complete standalone functionality for troubleshooting problems, it's hard for me to accept the iPad Pro as a Pro device, let alone a "post PC" device. What kind of post PC device if it still needs to be tethered to a PC when it is having problems?
What does any of this have to do with this thread, which is about mobile Safari?
 

neteng101

macrumors 65816
Jan 7, 2009
1,148
163
I'm seeing a lot of websites not properly testing, and winding up using JavaScript in ways that works on the desktop or their special browser the one poorly paid web guy likes, but not on mobile.

That's still a problem - for the iPad Pros to be taken more seriously they need to have desktop-like parity and rendering capabilities. Its ok if they don't support Flash but if it works on desktop Safari, it should work on the iPad Pros too. I don't think that's too much to ask for. There should be no disparity between Macs and iPad Pro/iOS versions of Safari other than maybe limiting extensions but I think they can even add extensions to mobile Safari (incl. Flash, etc) but require them to be installed/vetted via the App Store program.
 

matt2053

macrumors 6502a
Jul 8, 2012
554
121
True - I'm looking for a way to whitelist some sites.

I'm curious what your big concern is with Javascript? Literally about 99% of webpages use Javascript, it's certainly expected in today's internet. The modern web is essentially built on HTML, CSS and Javascript. And Safari (and other modern browsers) are all pretty darn good and preventing it from being used maliciously.
 

thingstoponder

macrumors 6502a
Oct 23, 2014
916
1,100
I'm not familiar with those sites, but I'd be willing to bet they are using Flash. It's a very popular development platform and it's just idiotic that Apple refuses to support it in iOS. I think I heard it was about a grudge Steve Jobs held against Adobe. I doubt there's any technical reason they couldn't support it, it runs on Mac, Windows and Android devices just fine. Let's hope they finally patch that hole in iOS 10!

It doesn't run on android. Thankfully Google has sense and they stopped allowing it.

Flash is garbage and it's dying out. Just because there's a few holdouts doesn't mean Apple needs to start supporting the bloated beast that is flash.
 
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