You could have saved yourself the trouble. SL upgrade disks are indeed full retail verisons.
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Lion should really be on a disc
- Thread starter NoSmokingBandit
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You could have saved yourself the trouble. SL upgrade disks are indeed full retail verisons.
If you have a Drop-In DVD version that came in the box with Macs sold just after Snow Leopard came out, the installer will search the hard drive for Leopard (or Snow Leopard) before it lets you install the OS.
I'm hoping the download is a bootable DMG and not a PKG. That would make it soooo much nicer, but still not great for those with slow connections. Apple better have their servers ready on launch day or it is going to get ugly.
I have another scenario to ponder.
Ma & Pa Kettle have an Intel iMac, shipped with 10.4.x. They've not purchased Leopard or Snow Leopard and won't in the next few months.
They then learn about Lion and decide to "take the plunge".
If Apple follow they're usual path, the previous version of MacOS will not be available for purchase. They don't know anybody else with a Mac.
What can they do?
Sure, IF they knew somebody running 10.6, surely they could purchase a downloadable/burnable/bootable disk image, but they don't.
Sure, they could purchase a second hand or old stock from the usual places ( eBay, CraigsList etc) but shouldn't Apple offer a path directly, ie physical media?
I agree with several posters that we don't yet know the full details, but the info so far does raise a few questions.
Ma & Pa Kettle have an Intel iMac, shipped with 10.4.x. They've not purchased Leopard or Snow Leopard and won't in the next few months.
They then learn about Lion and decide to "take the plunge".
If Apple follow they're usual path, the previous version of MacOS will not be available for purchase. They don't know anybody else with a Mac.
What can they do?
Sure, IF they knew somebody running 10.6, surely they could purchase a downloadable/burnable/bootable disk image, but they don't.
Sure, they could purchase a second hand or old stock from the usual places ( eBay, CraigsList etc) but shouldn't Apple offer a path directly, ie physical media?
I agree with several posters that we don't yet know the full details, but the info so far does raise a few questions.
Most Canadians have a 25gb bandwidth cap and $2.00/gb over charge, and not everyone has 5Mbit connection, the fastest connection speed in my area is 2Mbit, therefor, 250kbps download speeds.
This is disgusting.
This is disgusting.
I have suggestions for everyone who has a slow connection or a bandwidth cap.
- If you have one near by, go in to your local Apple Store and ask if it's okay for you to bring your system in to download Lion when it is released and explain why.
- Provide feedback to Apple via Mac OS X - Feedback. Remember to be polite and state your concerns.
I wonder if the wording here is key.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/how-to-buy/
"To upgrade on day one:" (emphasis is mine).
After "day one", perhaps physical media will be available. Apple is just taking the opportunity to push it out digitally as soon as the gold master is finalized?
http://www.apple.com/macosx/how-to-buy/
"To upgrade on day one:" (emphasis is mine).
After "day one", perhaps physical media will be available. Apple is just taking the opportunity to push it out digitally as soon as the gold master is finalized?
I wonder if the wording here is key.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/how-to-buy/
"To upgrade on day one:" (emphasis is mine).
After "day one", perhaps physical media will be available. Apple is just taking the opportunity to push it out digitally as soon as the gold master is finalized?
I noticed that too, and tend to agree with you: I'm sure it will be available on DVD eventually
Exactly the scenario I was about to post. Surely there will be something later that comes on physical media.
I wonder if the wording here is key.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/how-to-buy/
"To upgrade on day one:" (emphasis is mine).
After "day one", perhaps physical media will be available. Apple is just taking the opportunity to push it out digitally as soon as the gold master is finalized?
I think you may be right.
The other scenario here is what do corporate Mac shops do - have each machine download the Lion installation separately. That's not going to be an option. There just has to be physical media available at some point.
that IS the problem: downloading the OS! it's over 4GB! I'm on a limited bandwidth DSL service (3GB per month!!) with a speed of 30KB/s
exactly.... [refer to the comment of the previous quote]
I wonder if the wording here is key.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/how-to-buy/
"To upgrade on day one:" (emphasis is mine).
After "day one", perhaps physical media will be available. Apple is just taking the opportunity to push it out digitally as soon as the gold master is finalized?
I really do hope you are right!! *cross fingers*
I see three things happening here:
1) Users who will burn copies of Lion to a disc and sell it online.
2) Users who will turn to illegal sites because they cannot get the Mac App Store in the first place.
3) Users will never get Lion.
I should say SOME users, not all. Odds are that the amount of users who can and cannot get Lion the normal way are near or at half and half. Nevertheless, it does seem foolish for Apple to not release a DVD.
Perhaps at a later date, they will release a version of the MAS that is compatible with Leopard? That might not work out since the apps would be of different comparability, but it would be nice for those who cannot get the App Store.
Or at the very least a download link from the Apple Store.
This is of course assuming a disc is never released officially.
1) Users who will burn copies of Lion to a disc and sell it online.
2) Users who will turn to illegal sites because they cannot get the Mac App Store in the first place.
3) Users will never get Lion.
I should say SOME users, not all. Odds are that the amount of users who can and cannot get Lion the normal way are near or at half and half. Nevertheless, it does seem foolish for Apple to not release a DVD.
Perhaps at a later date, they will release a version of the MAS that is compatible with Leopard? That might not work out since the apps would be of different comparability, but it would be nice for those who cannot get the App Store.
Or at the very least a download link from the Apple Store.
This is of course assuming a disc is never released officially.
Solution: Mac Box Set. It was upgraded for iLife '11. Why not for new version of OS X and the new iWork Demoed?
I already own iLife and iWorks - I don't want to pay for those again. That's not a real solution unfortunately.
There will have to be a separate retail set for Lion at some point. Day 1 - I get that it will only be available digitally, but a few weeks in it will have to be on DVD.
I was proposing it was a solution to the problem presented by MacTech68, for those without Snow Leopard. But I imagine it would work for that situation as well.
Got ya. It would fix the 10.4/10.5 crowd - unless they've already paid for iLife and iWorks and are happy with the version of those applications they are currently running.
This is how I imagine it:
You download the 4 GB file, launch it, and it creates a recovery partition. That recovery partition acts as an install DVD, containing the Lion install and Disk Utility. With that you can format or upgrade your OS, the same as with a DVD. Is this not the way it was already with the preview?
You download the 4 GB file, launch it, and it creates a recovery partition. That recovery partition acts as an install DVD, containing the Lion install and Disk Utility. With that you can format or upgrade your OS, the same as with a DVD. Is this not the way it was already with the preview?
While I can see the down side of this, I see a lot of benefits as well. Pay just one price and install as many macs as you own. Currently I have 4 of them so I only pay one price.
Doing it as a download, keeps costs down. No packaging costs or distribution to stores ect.
Depending on how they are downloaded, I'm wondering if it will prevent hackintoshes from using lion.
Its too easy to get pay as you go credit cards, so not getting access to app store is moot.
Doing it as a download, keeps costs down. No packaging costs or distribution to stores ect.
Depending on how they are downloaded, I'm wondering if it will prevent hackintoshes from using lion.
Its too easy to get pay as you go credit cards, so not getting access to app store is moot.
The two major problems I see with Mac Store only for Lion is that
A) Leopard users are forced to upgrade to Snow Leopard via disc (so they can get the App Store), then they've got to download and upgrade to Lion.
B) You're left with no options for doing an install to a fresh HDD. Apple has touted that with Time Machine, after a drive failure you can simply pop in a new drive into your machine, and restore your data...but how the devil are you supposed to get the OS onto that new drive? Not only that, but what about people that upgrade their machines with new drives? In the Macbook Pro line and Mac Pro line are considered user serviceable, and HDD upgrades are common. Are they honestly going to force users to install 10.6 and then 10.7?!
At the end of the day, I'm all for making Lion available via the cloud, I think it's the best way for people to get the new OS...but there are certain situations in which that physical copy of the OS would be needed, even by the average user.
A) Leopard users are forced to upgrade to Snow Leopard via disc (so they can get the App Store), then they've got to download and upgrade to Lion.
B) You're left with no options for doing an install to a fresh HDD. Apple has touted that with Time Machine, after a drive failure you can simply pop in a new drive into your machine, and restore your data...but how the devil are you supposed to get the OS onto that new drive? Not only that, but what about people that upgrade their machines with new drives? In the Macbook Pro line and Mac Pro line are considered user serviceable, and HDD upgrades are common. Are they honestly going to force users to install 10.6 and then 10.7?!
At the end of the day, I'm all for making Lion available via the cloud, I think it's the best way for people to get the new OS...but there are certain situations in which that physical copy of the OS would be needed, even by the average user.
Lion sets up a recovery partition during installation. The world is moving away from physical media.
I think it will be available on dvd later
IMHO I think apple will release a dvd (or usb) version later. For all of the just in case situations that people immediately realized. Literally every forum on the mac os x lion release that I have looked through today (and it has been too many) looks exactly like this thread with everyone going OMG I can't download 4gb or ZOMG what if my hard drive crashes etc.
I find it VERY hard to imagine that in all the time apple spent working on this OS the situations EVERYONE here and on all the other tech forums immediately thought of did not occur to them. Although of course they probably also should have foreseen this response to their presentation today hmmm....
I'm not usually one to defend apple. They make plenty of mistakes but I really do believe that in this case we will at least have the option of making our own bootable version of lion and some kind of physical media will be available eventually cause otherwise they will have to sell physical media of an older operating system indefinitely which wouldn't make sense...(I'm on tiger/leopard and I missed 10.6 but I want lion)
What is more interesting is that this strongly suggests apple will be killing optical drives in the rest of the laptop line soon! (I have mixed feelings about this but overall I think it should be a good thing)
IMHO I think apple will release a dvd (or usb) version later. For all of the just in case situations that people immediately realized. Literally every forum on the mac os x lion release that I have looked through today (and it has been too many) looks exactly like this thread with everyone going OMG I can't download 4gb or ZOMG what if my hard drive crashes etc.
I find it VERY hard to imagine that in all the time apple spent working on this OS the situations EVERYONE here and on all the other tech forums immediately thought of did not occur to them. Although of course they probably also should have foreseen this response to their presentation today hmmm....
I'm not usually one to defend apple. They make plenty of mistakes but I really do believe that in this case we will at least have the option of making our own bootable version of lion and some kind of physical media will be available eventually cause otherwise they will have to sell physical media of an older operating system indefinitely which wouldn't make sense...(I'm on tiger/leopard and I missed 10.6 but I want lion)
What is more interesting is that this strongly suggests apple will be killing optical drives in the rest of the laptop line soon! (I have mixed feelings about this but overall I think it should be a good thing)