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This is a truly awful day for any Briton, I have family and friends in London. My deepest sympathy goes out to all those effected by todays events. As a frequent train user to and from London (including the stations and streets where todays events took place) it just shows how time can be so very cruel, a second here or there could have made todays events very different for some of the families involved. Had todays events taken place a week or so earlier I could have been a name in a paper. The sad fact is the world just isn't a safe place anymore with or without acts like this, it is unfortunate that innocent people of all races and religions get caught up in other people's power plays. History shows this has always been the case and I'm sure it will continue to be.

Although of little comfort, and I don't mean this to sound calous, today could have been a lot worse in terms of fatalities. Bombs seen in America, Spain, Africa have been suicide or precision attacks where someone has used their judgment to cause maximum casualties. If we leave the bus bomb out of the equation (we don't know whether that went off as planned or accidentally, was it meant for another train?) the others went off while the trains were either in tunnels or on relatively quiet sections of track. If one had gone off in the main terminal at King's X or Victoria, or even a place like Trafalgar Square the number of fatalities could easily have been in the 100's for each site. Although Islamic millitant groups have supposedly claimed responsibility for the attacks this has none of the self sacrificing martyr overtones previous attacks have had; this was a case of outright murder, committed by cowards who didn't even believe enough in what they were doing to show themselves.

As a country, but also a united free world, we must take this as yet another warning. The sad thing is there is no reason for this to stop because the people that commit these acts have no clear demands. 9/11 was not a response to a specific American act. It is sad that an ancient and beautiful religion such as Islam continues to be blackened by people who murder in its name even though there own religious leaders condemn the action. Even if we take no 'eye for an eye' (which I don't think would be the right response) action I feel it is only a question of time before something like this happens in a country again, what do you do about it? These people don't want to talk. They won't listen to there own people or even the true nature of their own holy writings as taught by their religious leaders.

Holy wars are nothing new but technology and communication have reached such a level that even a single person can reap terrible carnage if he so chooses. I'm not a religious person, I've never known where to place my trust or what to put my faith in. I've suffered from depression my whole life and events such as this serve only to reinforce my deminishing view of humanity as a whole. Have we really come to the point where we can hate each other so much we make it our lifes work to force our ideology upon others or destroy the things others strive to build. The world won't change because everyone feels their way is right, while people think like that they will never see that their actions serve only to perpetutate and accentuate the hate and desperation in others :(

I'm only young but I genuinely fear for what the furure holds.
 
psycho bob said:
This is a truly awful day for any Briton, I have family and friends in London. My deepest sympathy goes out to all those effected by todays events. As a frequent train user to and from London (including the stations and streets where todays events took place) it just shows how time can be so very cruel, a second here or there could have made todays events very different for some of the families involved. Had todays events taken place a week or so earlier I could have been a name in a paper. The sad fact is the world just isn't a safe place anymore with or without acts like this, it is unfortunate that innocent people of all races and religions get caught up in other people's power plays. History shows this has always been the case and I'm sure it will continue to be.

Although of little comfort, and I don't mean this to sound calous, today could have been a lot worse in terms of fatalities. Bombs seen in America, Spain, Africa have been suicide or precision attacks where someone has used their judgment to cause maximum casualties. If we leave the bus bomb out of the equation (we don't know whether that went off as planned or accidentally, was it meant for another train?) the others went off while the trains were either in tunnels or on relatively quiet sections of track. If one had gone off in the main terminal at King's X or Victoria, or even a place like Trafalgar Square the number of fatalities could easily have been in the 100's for each site. Although Islamic millitant groups have supposedly claimed responsibility for the attacks this has none of the self sacrificing martyr overtones previous attacks have had; this was a case of outright murder, committed by cowards who didn't even believe enough in what they were doing to show themselves.

As a country, but also a united free world, we must take this as yet another warning. The sad thing is there is no reason for this to stop because the people that commit these acts have no clear demands. 9/11 was not a response to a specific American act. It is sad that an ancient and beautiful religion such as Islam continues to be blackened by people who murder in its name even though there own religious leaders condemn the action. Even if we take no 'eye for an eye' (which I don't think would be the right response) action I feel it is only a question of time before something like this happens in a country again, what do you do about it? These people don't want to talk. They won't listen to there own people or even the true nature of their own holy writings as taught by their religious leaders.

Holy wars are nothing new but technology and communication have reached such a level that even a single person can reap terrible carnage if he so chooses. I'm not a religious person, I've never known where to place my trust or what to put my faith in. I've suffered from depression my whole life and events such as this serve only to reinforce my deminishing view of humanity as a whole. Have we really come to the point where we can hate each other so much we make it our lifes work to force our ideology upon others or destroy the things others strive to build. The world won't change because everyone feels their way is right, while people think like that they will never see that their actions serve only to perpetutate and accentuate the hate and desperation in others :(

I'm only young but I genuinely fear for what the furure holds.

Very good post. I for one feel the world has never been a safe place. If it's not one thing, it's another thing. It is never good to play with "what ifs" like you seem to have implied with the post. Things happened the way they happened today and no thoughts about "what if" will ever change that. I know the whole "what if" from tragic experiences all too well...and I hope none of the victims' families fall prey to this very hurtful proces of blaming oneself for the loss of a loved one.

Today's events have made me think of that movie the Village. Say some of us ran off to be old style isolationists...is that really the best thing? Tragedy will find you no matter where you are unfortunately...and society will always have its X-factor.

But do feel positive. Don't be depressed. Despite the terrible things that have happened today, London has shown the world how much of an awesome place it is to be. Some of our best attributes as Londoners have had the spotlight shown on them today. For example, people in distress asking for directions. I can't remember a time in London when I have not gotten an attempt at help with directions, even if the person doesn't really know where I need to go, they still do try to help their best. That isn't something that happens only during times of terror, but EVERYDAY. All around London.

And that's just one example I can think of offhand--there are many more around. Humanity is good overall...it's just that our X-factor has been made even more powerful than ever with today's technology unfortunately.
 
psycho bob said:
I'm only young but I genuinely fear for what the furure holds.

Me too, man, me too.

Can anyone who is a wee bit older comment on this? Stuff like this, 9/11, scenes from recent wars etc just seems so terrifying, and I do genuinely fear for what the future holds. I'm 25, and figure I could, in theory live for another 50 years or so, and who knows what could happen in that time? Those of you who are older and wiser - what do you think when you see stuff like this? There have been other incidents, other wars, do you think, well here's another one, it sucks but we've survived the others, or do you really fear for what the future holds?

Hope that makes sense. It's been a long say, and I can't sleep, and I may have inadvertently drank a beer....
 
First, condolences to our friends in England. You are all in our prayers.

Second, cut Music_Producer some slack, he or she is reacting emotionally to a senseless tragedy, as are we all. Perhaps biometric passports are a good idea in general (if laptops can be, why not those?); perhaps they are a crappy idea. Either way, it's too early to tell whether this would have made a difference in this circumstance, and I'm sure Music_Producer realizes that. However, it's natural to seize on a proposed "fix", especially in the heat of the moment.

I agree that obviously more can be done and should be done to help prevent this sort of thing in the future, but let's keep the blame where it belongs -- on the perpetrators, whoever they may be.

And psycho bob -- anarchists have been doing this sort of stuff for decades if not centuries, so it's not like humanity's going downhill all of a sudden... Am I cheering you up, or what? :eek:

Sorry, didn't mean to make light of things. Seriously, all we can do is try on our own, individual scale to be kind and make the world a better place.
 
Lau said:
Me too, man, me too.

Can anyone who is a wee bit older comment on this? Stuff like this, 9/11, scenes from recent wars etc just seems so terrifying, and I do genuinely fear for what the future holds. I'm 25, and figure I could, in theory live for another 50 years or so, and who knows what could happen in that time? Those of you who are older and wiser - what do you think when you see stuff like this? There have been other incidents, other wars, do you think, well here's another one, it sucks but we've survived the others, or do you really fear for what the future holds?

Hope that makes sense. It's been a long say, and I can't sleep, and I may have inadvertently drank a beer....

I know I'm nowhere near the wee bit older...and, in fact, am a wee bit younger, but I know what you mean. In a defeatist mood earlier today, I told my mum while I was talking to her that if people want to destroy the world, I wish they'd just get it over with instead of making everyone watch as they slowly do.

And my mum, much older and wiser than me had nothing to say to me about that. She said she fears for me and my future as she is concerned we may be upon the last of our days as a species. It is very scary to think about the future when you don't know whether you'll have one or not because of what's going on in the world.

I think things like this just reinforce the idea that time is precious. War, contagion, asteroids hitting us out of the sky, Yellowstone blowing us all up, all could cause us to be on the edge of the end times. I think it is important just to remember to take everyday as something that is a gift...from whatever you believe...god or biology or what-not...it truly is a gift.
 
fitinferno said:
Humanity is good overall...it's just that our X-factor has been made even more powerful than ever with today's technology unfortunately.

Good point, by the way. I think that is the problem. WWI was awful, but it was the soldiers that were affected. WWII meant that the 'new' technology started to affect civilians directly. (I know that's over simplified, BTW).

But you are right on 2 counts. Humanity is good overall, and you have to think of that. And what happened today shows a few people doing very bad things, and hundreds of people doing very good things in reaction.

And you are also right that we have to enjoy every day. Life is good, and we have to be thankful for that.
 
2jaded2care said:
First, condolences to our friends in England. You are all in our prayers.

Second, cut Music_Producer some slack, he or she is reacting emotionally to a senseless tragedy, as are we all. Perhaps biometric passports are a good idea in general (if laptops can be, why not those?); perhaps they are a crappy idea. Either way, it's too early to tell whether this would have made a difference in this circumstance, and I'm sure Music_Producer realizes that. However, it's natural to seize on a proposed "fix", especially in the heat of the moment.

Thank you!
 
2jaded2care said:
And psycho bob -- anarchists have been doing this sort of stuff for decades if not centuries, so it's not like humanity's going downhill all of a sudden... Am I cheering you up, or what? :eek:

Sorry, didn't mean to make light of things. Seriously, all we can do is try on our own, individual scale to be kind and make the world a better place.

Your quite right and we do need people to try and make light of the situation. Following 9/11 people couldn't have imagied that within in a few weeks it would be the subject of stand-up comedy routines. Now that doesn't mean to say we should forget about it but these things are out of our control we can only use it to influence the lives we live and make the bonds with the people around us stronger. I'm afraid the depressed side of me has a tendancy to take over especially as this has come on top of an already bad period but all that is for another time.

Looking back over history events like this were common place albeit limited in scale by the technology and resources of the time. In the history of the lawn that is our world man and all his actions will make up only a single blade of grass. Even in my life time events have occurred locally which provided as much cause for social unrest as these although on a smaller scale. I was brought up in Doncaster, a mining and working class city in the north of England where under Maggie Thatcher the very life was sucked out as trade moved abroad all of which lead to riots and crime. Even where I live now on the outskirts of Leeds in an area that was once low in crime you feel victimised just stepping out of your front door.

The world isn't going to hell but it is changing, maybe we just wish as we look through rose tinted glasses it was more like it was in the past because we long for the security we no longer see down the road. If the future was all written down like a history book would we find more solace in it?
 
fitinferno said:
Very good post. I for one feel the world has never been a safe place. If it's not one thing, it's another thing. It is never good to play with "what ifs" like you seem to have implied with the post. Things happened the way they happened today and no thoughts about "what if" will ever change that. I know the whole "what if" from tragic experiences all too well...and I hope none of the victims' families fall prey to this very hurtful proces of blaming oneself for the loss of a loved one.

It's very true, the 'what if' syndrome is more a relation of my mindset than anything else. That's what the illness does to you. An event like this though does make you realise just how randam these things can be which in a perculiar kind of way is quite comforting. Fail to set your alarm clock you might miss a car crash outside your house but then you could be struck down with a heart attack, the ony certain thing in life is you'll die.

I supose what I'm saying is; the 'what if' effect can work both ways, on one hand it can be a timely reminder of how precious life is but if you have a negative mindset it can be a real burden and prove to be an almost positive reinforcement of the beliefs one holds.
 
psycho bob said:
The world isn't going to hell but it is changing, maybe we just wish as we look through rose tinted glasses it was more like it was in the past because we long for the security we no longer see down the road. If the future was all written down like a history book would we find more solace in it?

Nicely said...I find this part of your post very interesting. It mirrors what many others have said too...what happened to our safety? And, as I've said in other posts, I think we have never had safety. But your talks of history and the such make it seem like maybe the case of back in the day when we felt safe was just that we were less informed. We didn't have internet to pop the news stories right onto our computer desktops, we didn't necessarily have reporters in other countries who could easily send their reports straight into our TVs as much, etc. In the same way that technology has changed to increase the severity of events like this, it has also changed to increase the advertisement of such events. The more stories we see lining up about it and the more stories we share with each other about it, the more fear that can build up from it and thus a higher sense of unsafety.

I remember one of my coaches talking about when he was young during the Cold War and always worrying if the end of the world could be right around the corner. It was very discomforting to listen to his story and I feel for the anyone that go through things like this.
 
london77e4zx.gif



(something really simple I put together for a forum I help run, no one poke fun, it's the thought that counts, I didn't have time to put a masterpiece together so quickly)

this is just awful, not at all something I ever would have expected. I feel awful. sickening, now american allies are being bullied by these ratty bearded wankers. :confused:
 
This is terrible. I recall the 9/11 attacks and today I feel the same shock, sadness and smoldering hatred. These cowardly attacks will never achieve the bizarre, twisted reality that the perpetrators - perverters of religion and murderers - claim to be "fighting" for. But in their failure they will cause so much death and ruin....I grow sick at the thought.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims.
 
I'm very to sorry to hear about the bombings today. I feel very bad for you guys over in England. Its just horrible what the world is comming to.

It is intresting though, that these types of bombings happen quite offen in the middle east and it seems that we just think "just another car bomb or suicide bombing", but when it happens to one of our countries its then that it really hits you how horrible of things that these extremists are doing.

I must say it is discomforting it that the terrorists attack you on your own soil and to see the damage that was done. I was in New York on 9/11 a block away from the Word Trade Center. I did not see the plane hit the building but I certainly heard it. When I had seen what happened I went to help all of the hurt people being a doctor. And when you see hundreds of wounded people its just so horrible.

I saw on the news all of the hurt people from the bombing and there injuries are just so horrible. Cuts and bruises are nothing compaired to burns. Burns are one of the most painful injuries you can get. These are injuries that will scar the people for the rest of there lives.

Again, my heart goes out to London. I just don't understand how a human can do these horrible acts to other humans with out shame.
 
My heartfelt condolences to all our UK friends.

My prayers and thoughts are with you all during this difficult time.

Please G-d they will catch the perpetrators in short order.
 
The thoughts of America are with all Brits tonight, just as yours were with us 4 years ago. I have complete faith that the citizens of London will bounce back from this, because if there is any city that can match the resolve of NYC, it is undoubtedly London. My only fear is that this is certainly not going to be the last of these attacks. I am 20, and I have little doubt that this conflict will continue to be fought by my children, and possibly thier children.

On a more optomisic note, I hope that the extension of the jihad to Europe will bring more sensibility to this conflict. Hopefully you will not be as easily swayed by emotion and "patriotism" as we Americans have been since 9/11. Perhaps your response will better address the root of the problem...that being the perversion of Islam by a small group of reactionaries (as was mentioned much more eloquently earlier). I hope that 7/7, though tragic, will be the beginning of the very slow end to this idio-flict.
 
fitinferno said:
And my mum, much older and wiser than me had nothing to say to me about that. She said she fears for me and my future as she is concerned we may be upon the last of our days as a species. It is very scary to think about the future when you don't know whether you'll have one or not because of what's going on in the world.
I know the feeling quite well. I experienced it one day four years ago when I woke up in time to see the second plane hit the World Trade Center on TV. But somehow, we as a race--the human race--find a way to pull through, pick up the pieces, and carry on. And I genuinely feel that as long as there are several billion good people on this Earth, we will find a way to not completely destroy ourselves. There is quite a bit of evil in the world, but the good outweighs it tenfold. It may be hard now being everything that has happened the last 24 hours, but keep positive. Don't be defeatist. You have almost the entire world standing with you.
 
iBlue said:
london77e4zx.gif



(something really simple I put together for a forum I help run, no one poke fun, it's the thought that counts, I didn't have time to put a masterpiece together so quickly)


iBlue, it's absolutely the thought that counts. As a Londoner, thank you. I'm amazed at all the messages of support and sympathy posted here and on other forums from all over the World. We really are a global village.
 
London's Euston Station being evacuated currently after a suspicious parcel was found..God make this end already!
 
Timers Used in Blasts, Police Say; Parallels to Madrid Are Found

link

Timers Used in Blasts, Police Say; Parallels to Madrid Are Found

LONDON, July 7 - Investigators searching for clues in the attacks here said Thursday that the three bombs used in the subway apparently were detonated by timers, not suicide bombers, and that a fourth device may have been intended for a target other than the city bus that it destroyed.

Senior police officials said they had not received a message claiming responsibility for the attacks from any group, and had made no arrests. But officials immediately drew parallels between the London bombings and the ones that struck commuter trains in Madrid 16 months ago, which were carried out by a Qaeda-inspired cell.

By Thursday night, there were far more questions than answers confronting Scotland Yard. One official said none of the scores of suspected terrorists being watched closely in England appeared to be involved.

Police and intelligence officials acknowledged that they were taken completely by surprise by the coordinated bombings, even though they had been anticipating a terrorist attack for years.

The officials said there was no warning or even a hint that an attack was imminent among the blizzard of intelligence accumulated in recent days by the Metropolitan Police and by MI5, the domestic intelligence services.

"There was no intelligence in our possession that these attacks were going to take place today," said Brian Paddick, deputy assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police. "We were given no warning from any organization that this was going to happen."
Counterterrorism officials in London said they were still trying to determine the type of explosives that were used. One official speculated that the No. 30 bus whose roof was blown off at 9:47 a.m. in Bloomsbury was demolished accidentally by a suicide bomber. But another theory gaining momentum was that the bomb exploded prematurely as a bomber was carrying it to an intended target, several American and British counterterrorism officials said.

The officials said that the three subway bombs appeared to have been detonated by timers, not cellphones or other remote triggers. The bombs on the trains were believed to be package bombs and are believed to have been left by the attackers who fled before they went off.

Officials refused to confirm or deny reports that two unexploded package bombs were recovered from trains. A senior American intelligence official said the British had conducted "at least one controlled explosion" of a suspicious package found after the attacks, but he said he could not confirm that the package was another bomb.
 
Its amazing how much courage and patience the English have displayed. Their ability to absorb such a dastardly act and go on with their lives should and must be admired. After 9/11 air travel in America was down..and never picked up.. for atleast a year! :eek: People in London are back on the subway and buses.. cheers!!!
 
Whilst I understand the need to discuss this in depth, please keep the politics out of this thread and in the thread specifically for the arguments in the political forum.

I've moved some posts over there if your wondering where they went.

(No, I'll just delete them by accident.... knob)
 
Music_Producer said:
London's Euston Station being evacuated currently after a suspicious parcel was found..God make this end already!
on bbc tv just now...

euston and charing cross both closed and reopened for one suspicious package each. liverpool street station currently closed for two suspicious packages, one dealt with already.

sounds to me like passengers accidentally left things behind.
 
Oh ok.. phew! And WinterMute..my apologies for the political bit..but I didn't know there was a political sub-forum in here too. (I usually look at the main page and the rumors posted up there)
 
Music_Producer said:
Oh ok.. phew! And WinterMute..my apologies for the political bit..but I didn't know there was a political sub-forum in here too. (I usually look at the main page and the rumors posted up there)

No problems, and I'm afraid I owe you and Zim and a couple of others an apology as I was moving your comments to the political thread and deleted them instead of moving them.... (doh!)

If anyone else is wondering where their posts went that's the reason.

If you'd like to make your points about biometrics again feel free...
 
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