Looking for first D-slr.

[compuwar]

Both the D40 and the D60 use Nikon's older CCD sensor technology which is quite noisy,

I think "quite noisy" is an over-exaggeration, especially in terms of the D40, which has larger pixels and a larger pixel pitch than the D60. Certainly the D40 has less noise than my D2x, and my clients and customers don't complain about noisy pictures. Every time I've used a friend's D40 I haven't gotten noisy pictures- in fact I don't think I've owned a digital camera that's less noisy than the D40, and I can count the number of times I've had noise issues.

Another thing that may or may not be important to some people in the D40/D60 versus Rebel XS discussion is that the XS has Auto Exposure Bracketing, and the D40/D60 does not.
May be important to you later if you decide to try HDR imaging.

My D2x has the best bracketing out there in terms of number of exposures it'll auto-bracket (9 shots,) and I still prefer to do it manually. IMO, auto-bracketing isn't worth even $20 more, especially if it's just two additional exposures.

 

[FX120]

I think "quite noisy" is an over-exaggeration, especially in terms of the D40, which has larger pixels and a larger pixel pitch than the D60. Certainly the D40 has less noise than my D2x, and my clients and customers don't complain about noisy pictures. Every time I've used a friend's D40 I haven't gotten noisy pictures- in fact I don't think I've owned a digital camera that's less noisy than the D40, and I can count the number of times I've had noise issues.

Regardless of your opinion of what the definition of noisy is, the D40 and D60 have considerably more noise with NR off, and a very apperent loss of detail with NR on when compared to the XS at equivilant sensitivities.

As for compared to the D2X, from what I have seen from both cameras I would say that the D2X offers better high ISO performance than the D40, even though it only has an expanded ISO 1600 option, it also does a better job with noise reduction processing, and doesn't completley destroy detail like the D40/D60 does.

My D2x has the best bracketing out there in terms of number of exposures it'll auto-bracket (9 shots,) and I still prefer to do it manually. IMO, auto-bracketing isn't worth even $20 more, especially if it's just two additional exposures.

I wish this forum had a "rolleyes" smiley...

Manually bracketing on a professional level DSLR with oodles of buttons, knobs and switches is much easier to do on the fly than it is on a entry-level DSLR where changing pretty much any function requires a trip into the menus. And again, you're applying the reasoning that because you're a professional, using professional gear, addtional features that *you* don't use aren't going to be useful to anyone else.

 

[PCMacUser]

I need to get popcorn for this upcoming argument.

 

[paulandre]

have you looked into the canon line of dslrs?

 

[compuwar]

Regardless of your opinion of what the definition of noisy is, the D40 and D60 have considerably more noise with NR off, and a very apperent loss of detail with NR on when compared to the XS at equivilant sensitivities.

Actually, you don't need to look at my opinion, you can simply look at the samples on DPR or Camera Lab's tests of each camera- if you look at them, you'll see that "considerably" is a complete stretch. Finally, "NR off" and "NR on" are what the JPEG engine will do, not what comes off the sensor.

Once again though, the noise profiles from the D40 are different than those of the D60- the continued attempt to lump them together doesn't bear out in the high ISO portions of the noise graphs at DPR, let alone in the real world.

As for compared to the D2X, from what I have seen from both cameras I would say that the D2X offers better high ISO performance than the D40, even though it only has an expanded ISO 1600 option, it also does a better job with noise reduction processing, and doesn't completley destroy detail like the D40/D60 does.

I've actually shot with both cameras, and the D40 is noticeably better at high ISO. In other words, you can "say" it all you want, but it's simply not true. Again, you can go to the DPR tests and see the difference at high-ISO quite easily.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/NikonD2X/page21.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40/page17.asp

Since I shoot in raw mode on the D2x and compressed raw on my friends' D40s, I can tell you that NR settings have nothing to do with the resolution differences between the cameras- the D2x simply has more resolution.

If you're a fan of JPEGs though, here's a real-world example of the D40 vs the D80 and XTi:

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/NikonD40/page4ca.shtml


Here's a comparison of the XS, XSi and XTi:

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_1000D_Rebel_XS/outdoor_results.shtml

You can see from the raw vs JPEG sample at the bottom that the XS JPEG engine is nothing to write home about in terms of sharpness.

I wish this forum had a "rolleyes" smiley...

Oh, me too

Manually bracketing on a professional level DSLR with oodles of buttons, knobs and switches is much easier to do on the fly than it is on a entry-level DSLR where changing pretty much any function requires a trip into the menus. And again, you're applying the reasoning that because you're a professional, using professional gear, addtional features that *you* don't use aren't going to be useful to anyone else.

Have you ever even touched a D40?

If you do the exact same process (meter, set the body on M and adjust the exposure and take your first shot) on the D40 as on the D2x, the rear command dial lets you change the shutter speed. In fact, the only difference between the two is that on the D40 you have to hold down an additional button and use the rear command dial to change the aperture (not something you do with an HDR) because it doesn't have a front command dial. So, you see it really has nothing to do with the extra buttons and switches on the D2x- same process, same dial, same number of steps, and you can take as many exposures as you want.