Lost computer privileges at school for year for going to macrumors...

[63dot]

In lunch today I got my laptop out (macbook) to go to Macrumors, someone found out I was on a forum... Now I lost my privileges to use a computer during school.

/Discuss

That's terrible. I can maybe understand if you are a minor, and they are worried about porn or hate sites, but you were at lunch, right? They have no right to punish you on that regardless of your age.

I am a graduate student and the school has considered shutting off internet access completely because students, all adults, cruise the net during class. The previous graduate program I was in did not allow for us to do research on the internet because they considered internet information more opinion than fact, but if they are referring to Macrumors, then I can agree with that.

As it stands, I pretty much study old school, textbooks and hand written notes, and while it's slower, it's more methodical and I get better results. But as to research on the internet, it's been great for me in this program, even on the graduate level. But the information I still find in the library is more accurate so I have mixed feelings about school and technology.

The internet was the information highway in its infancy, then became the porn highway, but there is no doubt that now it is the blog highway. I think I will spend a lot of time in the library through this graduate school program and while it's painful and slow, people have studied with books in graduate programs, colleges, and secondary school for well over 1000 years and it didn't kill them.

 

[Gray-Wolf]

For decades kids learned just fine without needing computers. I think they are more a distraction than a help. You can't put all the blame on the union. Look at the school boards and government that pass mandates that can't be reached.

In my day your notes were kept in a notebook, and your research was done in books. Computers for the most part were unheard of. By reading books, you learned both the subject of your study, as well as a few other things on other pages. You learned to think about a subject matter, and it fed your curiosity of related topics. Your mind was exercised. When you type a word in a computer, it searches for all related subject matter. You do nothing but read what is presented.

You miss the work of searching, thinking about a subject. And not all data in the computer represents what was originally writing about a topic. Some books have never been computerized.

I miss the old days. In my school, the success ratio was fairly high.

 

[yetanotherdave]

Well then all the more reason for you to make handwritten notes, in order to learn how to write legibly.

Some people just can't. I have dysgraphia, a form of dyslexia, I can't handwrite more than a couple of lines before my wrist starts to cramp, my handwriting is illegible beyond this point. It takes extreme concerntration to make the first few lines legible. This plagued me through school, high school, I failed a-levels because examiners couldn't read my writing, failed the same way at uni. Purely due to my handwriting. I know it's bad, I can't read my own handwriting.
Five years later, I find a doctor who is willing to help. I have a certificate stating that I have this, and if I ever go back to uni (hopefully soon), it should allow me to use a laptop all the way. 3 hour handwritten essay exams absolutely killed me, and for nothing as I knew there was no way ever anyone wouild be able to decipher it. And yes, I've tried many many things to improve my writing.

 

[telecomm]

Wow, I'm surprised at all the hostility towards computers in school. If I had had a laptop throughout university I'd still have access to all my class notes, etc., which would be a great resource.

As it stands, having moved a few times (not least across the Atlantic) all my notes are in notebooks in a storage unit on the other side of the ocean. Not anywhere near as useful as they would have been in electronic form. Not to mention the fact that they aren't searchable using Spotlight, etc.

 

[emt1]

Wow, I'm surprised at all the hostility towards computers in school. If I had had a laptop throughout university I'd still have access to all my class notes, etc., which would be a great resource.

As it stands, having moved a few times (not least across the Atlantic) all my notes are in notebooks in a storage unit on the other side of the ocean. Not anywhere near as useful as they would have been in electronic form. Not to mention the fact that they aren't searchable using Spotlight, etc.

They're just jealous that they didn't have what I have when they were in college. It's okay.

 

[63dot]

Some people just can't. I have dysgraphia, a form of dyslexia, I can't handwrite more than a couple of lines before my wrist starts to cramp, my handwriting is illegible beyond this point. It takes extreme concerntration to make the first few lines legible. This plagued me through school, high school, I failed a-levels because examiners couldn't read my writing, failed the same way at uni. Purely due to my handwriting. I know it's bad, I can't read my own handwriting.
Five years later, I find a doctor who is willing to help. I have a certificate stating that I have this, and if I ever go back to uni (hopefully soon), it should allow me to use a laptop all the way. 3 hour handwritten essay exams absolutely killed me, and for nothing as I knew there was no way ever anyone wouild be able to decipher it. And yes, I've tried many many things to improve my writing.

I have a classmate who is dyslexic so he has to use a computer to type notes and papers. That is a great use of a computer.

But as for research, I agree with others it's more of a hindrance than a help. A good approach could be to use the computer for writing notes and papers, and test taking, but spend a liberal amount of time at the library, and take advantage of the thousands of years of well thought out verbage in those books. Editors, experts, and rewrites ruled the day if anybody was going to get anything published in print. But on today's net, a rough draft goes online and people consider it gospel.

If you were going to publish something in print, if you had any hope of getting it printed, you had better have been an expert on the topic you wrote about. Online, there is no such requirement.

I think, however, the computer can be a great tool for online degrees and certificates and you can learn in a virtual environment. But to make full use of that, spend a lot of time with periodicals, research papers, and books in the library if you truly want to get your money's worth for your education. The goal should not be to get through school as easily and painlessly as possible. True effort will pay off, and even if it does not produce better grades than if you googled your way through school, the old school way of reading, writing, and going to the library will stick with you after you graduate. Because for most, once school is over, you will never be in a classroom again and believe it or not, you will eventually miss those days. Make the most of it while you are there since school represents only a quarter to a third of your life.

 

[r.j.s]

But on today's net, a rough draft goes online and people consider it gospel.

A rough draft isn't even needed anymore - blogs, which may or may not have any basis in fact, are considered gospel by many.

 

[63dot]

A rough draft isn't even needed anymore - blogs, which may or may not have any basis in fact, are considered gospel by many.

Initially, when I took my first class in a grad program, which anywhere is a ton of work, we were bummed when the program director told us never to use the computer for substantive research. But at that time, there was no internet authority on the subject of "entrepreneurship/management in non-profit corporations."

Now, in law school, the absolute authority, Lexus-Nexus, 2nd and 3rd restatements, and the Model Penal Code are all online so at least those are trusted sources that can be used and relied upon. It has made life easier and I have yet to need to hit the law library. Some key publications and opinions have not officially made it to the net yet, so I will have to spend time in the physical library, but I really don't mind.

One day, long into the future, all fields will have their official sources digitized and people from anywhere in the world can study any subject and have the most qualified publications online, and respected by all of academia. I don't think we are anywhere close to that yet. Just like TV didn't kill radio, the computer/internet will not kill the print industry and libraries. New school digital learning and old school learning with books will coexist side by side for a very long time.

I do see a time, long after I am gone, where there will be no radio, TV, or books, as well as no stores or office buildings and some sort of laptop and pda will overtake all the old standards. It could be a way to keep us telecommuting reducing the need to drive and pollute, or to process trees for paper, or to waste resources building business and office buildings. Entire cities can be dismantled and returned to nature and we can live in a "green" low carbon footprint world. I would love to see that now, but this type of massive change will take time.

Where I used to live we had a massive roadway system for the flourishing horse and buggy business and we had an impressive array of steam engines. The huge fishing industry was linked to the huge agricultural industry and the steam powered trains took the food to the rest of the nation. Today in the same town, horses in public are illegal, the steam railway system is rusting and not used, and the only buggies are in museums. What horses are seen are only in rural farms and only venture into the city for a horse show. Today's radio stations, tv stations, libraries, print publishers, retail stores and office buildings will go the way of the horse and buggy, and steam powered locomotives.

 

[MacNut]

We will still need a paper backup. What happens if we ever have a mega virus or something that wipes out all the computers. All the information is lost. We rely so much on computers and the cloud that we are setting ourselves up for a huge fail.

What if we ever had a cyber terrorist attack. How would that affect us.

 

[63dot]

We will still need a paper backup. What happens if we ever have a mega virus or something that wipes out all the computers. All the information is lost. We rely so much on computers and the cloud that we are setting ourselves up for a huge fail.

With massive redundancy, other operating systems, closed networks, info put onto digital media, PDAs, CDs and DVDs, I think we are safe there. For now, yes, we will need a paper backup, but eventually the need for paper will disappear. But I am talking 25, 50, even 100 or 200 years down the line. I don't think people will have to ditch their Georgia Pacific or Weyerhaeuser stocks just yet.

 

[GoCubsGo]

They're just jealous that they didn't have what I have when they were in college. It's okay.

I wouldn't call it jealousy at all. That is just another close-minded way of thinking. When you make such statements you're no better than they are.

I am 31. I got through high school without a laptop as it wasn't the way things were. It is not that I wouldn't have appreciated such things, it is simply that in 1991-1995 it was not standard or even an option. Laptops and cell phones were toys that would be taken if seen. The only course I believe would have been more difficult follow if I were taking notes on a laptop would have been math. Perhaps there are applications for this now, but to take notes and draw graphs that were displayed on the whiteboards (yes they existed in the 90's) just wouldn't have worked for me.

I went to college straight from high school but left within the year. No laptop. Again, not impractical just unheard of. When I returned to college years later laptops were practical and more common. I actually opted to use a Dell Axim plugged into a portable external keyboard to take notes. It was quite nice tbh. As I rounded up my undergrad and move to grad school I began using the laptop more and more. Lectures were indeed handed out both electronically via a system called Blackboard, and hard copy. You were not required to have a laptop, but it was "recommended".

The point here is this is not a discussion whether or not laptops belong in school. This discussion surrounds the conduct of a child in school who, by his own free will, violated the terms of use concerning the school's policy on internet use. The OP violated the rules and will suffer the consequences for the next year. It is an unfortunate extreme punishment, but since I have yet to see the OP display any sort of maturity in his explanations surrounding the policy, the punishment, and his actions I have to echo many statements here ... he broke the rules now he'll pay the price.

You emt1, clearly will have an answer for everything regardless. I'm going to say that you've seemed to have covered all your bases in ensuring your notes are protected as much as possible and you are happy with your setup. I do agree that it is not so much depending upon technology as it is taking full advantage of it. In some ways we're all a bit reliant on technology. I know I am.

 

[anjinha]

We will still need a paper backup. What happens if we ever have a mega virus or something that wipes out all the computers. All the information is lost. We rely so much on computers and the cloud that we are setting ourselves up for a huge fail.

What if we ever had a cyber terrorist attack. How would that affect us.

What if we have a fire or a flood or a big disaster and all our paper copies are destroyed?

 

[63dot]

The point here is this is not a discussion whether or not laptops belong in school. This discussion surrounds the conduct of a child in school who, by his own free will, violated the terms of use concerning the school's policy on internet use. The OP violated the rules and will suffer the consequences for the next year. It is an unfortunate extreme punishment, but since I have yet to see the OP display any sort of maturity in his explanations surrounding the policy, the punishment, and his actions I have to echo many statements here ... he broke the rules now he'll pay the price.

Wasn't he using the laptop during lunch?

What kind of policy allows a student not to be able to go online on their lunch break? That sounds unfair to me. I understand teachers and administrators who don't want students cruising online while they are in class and the teachers are trying to lecture. But what's wrong with going online at lunch?

 

[r.j.s]

Wasn't he using the laptop during lunch?

What kind of policy allows a student not to be able to go online on their lunch break? That sounds unfair to me. I understand teachers and administrators who don't want students cruising online while they are in class and the teachers are trying to lecture. But what's wrong with going online at lunch?

Chances are, forums are against the school's policy. Not just email.

 

[MacNut]

What if we have a fire or a flood or a big disaster and all our paper copies are destroyed?

That wont save a hard drive either. Important documents should be in a safe. That includes backup drives.

If the power goes out for a few weeks computers won't work.

 

[CalBoy]

<Enter grumpy old man>

OP, even though MR isn't a "bad" site (ie, you weren't watching porn at school), it also isn't specifically allowed by your school. You mentioned that your school's policy was to allow students to check school related mail only right? MR is not that at all, so they carried out a policy you knew about.

Now the better question is why you need a macbook in school to begin with. Unless you are taking a class that requires one (as in you're taking a class on software or something that's very specific to computers), you really don't need a computer during school hours.

I know that kids think computers are the greatest thing in the world (and they are very useful tools, don't get me wrong), but truth be told, you can learn more in most general subjects without a computer.

Take writing for example. Most students have become over reliant on spellcheck. I've spent enough time as an English tutor and ESL tutor to know when someone is relying on spellcheck and when someone knows how to edit their paper correctly, and your teachers do too.

And for the record, OP, I'm only a little older than you (senior in college), and I never take my notebook to class because I know it will distract me, and because I know I will have a harder time absorbing the material. Take it from someone who has been there and done that, computers are not the be all and end all. Use this suspension of your privileges as an opportunity to become a stronger student as opposed to a stronger computer user.

 

[mr.stinki]

We're not even allowed to bring our laptops to school...

I do it anyway...Keynote presentations are just SOOOO much better than Powerpoint....

And we can't use cellphones or any electronic device PERIOD. Not even during lunch, or passing period.

 

[CalBoy]

We're not even allowed to bring our laptops to school...

This is a general policy many schools adopt because it makes it easier to handle the situation. Even if you are very responsible and only want to use your laptop for presentations, there are likely many others who would not be so virtuous with their usage.

I do it anyway...Keynote presentations are just SOOOO much better than Powerpoint....

There is room for certain exceptions, but at the end of the day your grade (and more importantly, your education) isn't going to be fundamentally different if you use Keynote or Powerpoint. One might be nicer looking than the other, but that won't change the substance you put into it, which is the entire point of a presentation.

 

[janey]

Well then all the more reason for you to make handwritten notes, in order to learn how to write legibly.

Thank you for being so considerate. My handwriting used to be gorgeous. When legible, some people still love it. Now, I have a hard time holding a pen still and writing with it. I'm compensating best I can in the only ways I know how (big fat super weighted pens and no coffee), and still some days I have problems.

I'm participating in nanowrimo next month and I was going to write my entire danged novel by hand with a gorgeous fountain pen (purchased after holding a dozen fountain pens in my hand to see how heavy they were, with no consideration for any other feature) I recently purchased, but merely writing out an outline made me reconsider.

I don't have as much of a problem typing, and I can type damned fast. It's a tool that helps me very much, and I will take advantage of it best I can.

We will still need a paper backup. What happens if we ever have a mega virus or something that wipes out all the computers. All the information is lost. We rely so much on computers and the cloud that we are setting ourselves up for a huge fail.

What if we ever had a cyber terrorist attack. How would that affect us.

Jeez, you're really pulling out a whole bunch of extremely unlikely scenarios out. I can't imagine everyone backs up the way I do, but some things make your statement unlikely: mega viruses would be happier taking advantage of computers, not wiping them out unless it was someone targeting a specific computer or group of computers with significance to them (e.g. retributive ex-girl/boyfriends/wives/husbands and the like). Cyberterrorism (ha ha) wouldn't very likely target you and me, it would target government and major business networks. And none of this would affect any offline computer or unconnected device. Plus the scenario of such malware spreading so quickly and so widely would mean that every single security professional, sysadmin and more would have to have been asleep or dead for a long time with all of the software and hardware protections bypassed or disabled. Offsite offline backups are a good idea for important documents. And I'd imagine there were bigger problems than a test should something be so successful, it would affect a lot of people way more than 9/11 did.

That wont save a hard drive either. Important documents should be in a safe. That includes backup drives.

If the power goes out for a few weeks computers won't work.

And you're liable to go burn those handwritten notes taken in class as fuel should power ever go out for that long, not use them to study for a test that would be cancelled. And again, you have a hell of a bigger problem than a test should the power go out for that long.

All of these are extremely, extremely unlikely scenarios.

Take writing for example. Most students have become over reliant on spellcheck. I've spent enough time as an English tutor and ESL tutor to know when someone is relying on spellcheck and when someone knows how to edit their paper correctly, and your teachers do too.

My entire education outside of elementary school (well, sort of including that as well) required that I type up whatever was to be turned in in English class. In fact, outside of basic homework, I'm having a hard time thinking of a class where it was completely acceptable to submit handwritten papers. I don't believe bringing a computer to class has an impact on that. Also, while I love my spellcheck, I am a stickler for correct grammar and spelling. Just today I cringed at http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/79fe3/microsofts_surface_is_for_sell_but_it_isnt_cheap/

Take it from someone who has been there and done that, computers are not the be all and end all. Use this suspension of your privileges as an opportunity to become a stronger student as opposed to a stronger computer user.

I know that people in certain niche groups have no choice but to use something like a laptop in class (like I/you mentioned previously about computer specific classes, and someone else with dysgraphia), but I still believe lots of people can benefit from doing so. The only reason why I could see this as a bad idea is that a lot of people are tempted not to do anything related to class on said devices, and that temptation is way stronger in the likes of high school and the first couple years of college than anywhere else.

If one chooses to only play games and mess around in class, it's an abuse and should be discouraged. However, there are plenty of legitimate uses and users

 

[Jelite]

When you say "macrumors" you mean "hardcore porn", amirite?

 

[CalBoy]

T
My entire education outside of elementary school (well, sort of including that as well) required that I type up whatever was to be turned in in English class. In fact, outside of basic homework, I'm having a hard time thinking of a class where it was completely acceptable to submit handwritten papers. I don't believe bringing a computer to class has an impact on that.

You're right, but I was thinking more along the lines of taking notes in class.

That's usually one of the most common reasons students give for wanting to take a laptop to class, and I think it encourages even more apathy in regards to spelling and grammar.

Also, while I love my spellcheck, I am a stickler for correct grammar and spelling. Just today I cringed at http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/79fe3/microsofts_surface_is_for_sell_but_it_isnt_cheap/

Sure, you and I may be concerned about spelling and grammar, but is the average high school student? I'd venture to guess no.

However, your point is well taken; it isn't spellcheck that is necessarily bad per se, but rather the laziness it can encourage.

I still believe lots of people can benefit from doing so.

I'm still very hesitant to believe that. In most subjects, one needs to learn fundamental skills first and then use more advanced tools (like calculators or word processors) to be more efficient. Have you talked to a high school student lately? Many of them are very intelligent but lack an understanding of fundamental mechanics (in any subject, not just writing).

I must admit I also look at this from the lens of an educator since I've been involved in that field for some time. Lay the foundation with sweat and toil (ie, no computers or calculators) and later on that student will reap the benefits.

The only reason why I could see this as a bad idea is that a lot of people are tempted not to do anything related to class on said devices, and that temptation is way stronger in the likes of high school and the first couple years of college than anywhere else.

Definitely. I'm sure that the school's policy was based largely on that concern as well.

If one chooses to only play games and mess around in class, it's an abuse and should be discouraged. However, there are plenty of legitimate uses and users

No question, but it goes to the old argument of proportions. How many high school students do you think are going to be responsible when they bring their laptop to school? I'd say a small minority at best. From the standpoint of the school and the teachers, it's best to simply bar them altogether. It might be unfair for that small minority, but so are other policies we direct at young people (driving, voting, the lottery, smoking, drinking, etc).

I'm just hoping the OP understands this from an administrative perspective rather than simply being indignant. Then again, Twain's words always seem to come back every generation:

When I was sixteen, my father was the most ignorant man in the world. By the time I reached 21, I was surprised at how much he had learned in five years.

 

[GoCubsGo]

Wasn't he using the laptop during lunch?

What kind of policy allows a student not to be able to go online on their lunch break? That sounds unfair to me. I understand teachers and administrators who don't want students cruising online while they are in class and the teachers are trying to lecture. But what's wrong with going online at lunch?

Policy is policy. If the policy in force is "during school hours" then during school hours would have clearly included lunch hours. Lunch hours, especially if you're a student who is not permitted to leave campus at lunch (at my school you had to be a Junior or Senior), then the lunch hour is the school's hour. Is it fair? Gosh no, I never said it was. Most of the time policy isn't fair for everyone. You're a lawyer or a law student I believe, you can most certainly understand "policy". Again, the OP continues to fail to provide detail in the policy. Just a few posts that end with one too many "lol's". I'm going back to my original posting here and saying he is suffering from Dick Cheney Memory™.

 

[lwood1]

iPhone.

 

[teflon]

Yes. It's called taking notes. Or research, or typing papers... there are a number of reasons that computers would be useful. Why do you think Apple offers an education discount?! What a ridiculous question!

Actually education discount isn't offered to high school students.

We will still need a paper backup. What happens if we ever have a mega virus or something that wipes out all the computers. All the information is lost. We rely so much on computers and the cloud that we are setting ourselves up for a huge fail.

What if we ever had a cyber terrorist attack. How would that affect us.

It is extremely unlikely that this would happen. However, we could type everything then print it out if you're so hell bent on having a hard copy. Much neater that way.

I'm surprised at how opposed to technology some schools are. None of the high schools that I went to were opposed to technology at all. Many teachers allowed music players during class, ringing cell phones are usually ignored, and no one ever had a problem with laptops.

 

[dukebound85]

Actually education discount isn't offered to high school students.



It is extremely unlikely that this would happen. However, we could type everything then print it out if you're so hell bent on having a hard copy. Much neater that way.

I'm surprised at how opposed to technology some schools are. None of the high schools that I went to were opposed to technology at all. Many teachers allowed music players during class, ringing cell phones are usually ignored, and no one ever had a problem with laptops.

i do. they are annoying when taking notes as the typing noise is so irritating to me. i still dont understand why people use laptops for notes....i mean quickly draw that diagram on your computer....haha thought so