such a waste of time? What do you mean? We may not be satisfied with it, but the 1.42 is still the fastest mac there is... how is that a waste of time?
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such a waste of time? What do you mean? We may not be satisfied with it, but the 1.42 is still the fastest mac there is... how is that a waste of time?
Originally posted by Stella
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Stella you are simply wrong
stella you have to reclose the quote with the [/*Quote] ( withouth the *, )command instead of theWe shall see. I hope I am wrong. I don't think 970 processors will come around in June.
However, Microsoft have ported XP to 64 bit. Where are all the amd/intel 64 bit processors? They aren't here yet available to consumers, so the existence of a 64 bit OS doesn't mean availability of 64 bit processors.
I totally agree, G4 processors in new PowerMacs will kill sales, but I wouldn't put it past apple to do something like this!
Indeed the 970's do have Altivect. But read my original post again - i said i don't think 970 processors will be here this month. They *will* arrive at some point.
Originally posted by Stella
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Stella you are simply wrong
We shall see
However, Microsoft have ported XP to 64 bit. Where are all the amd/intel 64 bit processors? They aren't here yet available to consumers, so the existence of a 64 bit OS doesn't mean availability of 64 bit processors.
I totally agree, G4 processors in new PowerMacs will kill sales, but I wouldn't put it past apple to do something like this!
Indeed the 970's do have Altivect. But read my original post again - i said i don't think 970 processors will be here this month. They *will* arrive at some point.
Stella,
The 64-bit bit from Intel is called the Itanium, or Itanic as many call it. It has been available for sometime, getting a system is a different story as the manufacturers dont seem to want to sell them, but nonetheless, the chip is released. The AMD is currently not available.
Microsoft is one company, Intel is another, as is AMD and then add in all the peecee manufacturers, Microsoft is in the software (OS) group, Intel and AMD are in the processor group and the manufacturers are in the third group. So when Intel and AMD decided to use 64-bit processors, they had to get the other two groups to buy into them. Lets look at Apple. They are the OS group and the manufacturer and they deal with one processor company. Why would Apple waste the money to create a 64-bit OS? No one else could use it and it would be a waste of time and money to create just to let it get stagnant. Others have done this, like Sun Solaris of Itanic. It was created but has yet to be sold.
Actually its much simpler than that. The itanium is a server chip, period. The Power4 is a server chip, period. The 970 is a desktop/laptop/mini-server chip. There is no Itanium worth sticking in a desktop now. There is a 970 though.
Sorry this is wrong.
the Itanium will not run on 64xp.
MS made this os for a real, now-shipping, 64bit cpu from AMD called the opteron. http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030422/index.html
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_8825,00.html
this is the hammer chip that everyone has be waiting for, except in a xeon like status. when they ship the consumer level ones, all they will have diff is the cache.
sad part is; it is slow, and already gets its ass handed to it by the xeons.
Re: MWSF '02 - anyone
At the risk of restating a point made earlier by fukuhela, there is something that I think needs to be made clear here, before we all start making blood pacts against Apple if the 970 doesn't show.
There is an old adage that goes something like: "Hope for the best, plan for the worst."
Remember the G5.
Remember the 17" iMac.
Remember the Flat Panel iMac.
Remember the the PBG4.
All items that were thought in the can for so long and then never materialized until much later (or never in one case). Maybe my history is a little questionable, but I seem to recall that these all were considered givens at one show or another, only to get replaced by a solid, though not dramatic, upgrade which had a lot people (namely those frequenting rumor sites and taking them as absolute truth, amongst others) upset with Apple. Upset with them for doing no more or no less than they said they were going to do.
My point is that about the only we can say for sure is coming is some look at 10.3 (Panther). We cannot be sure of anything beyond that. History has taught us this. Nobody's saying that the 970s wouldn't be nice and I do sincerely hope they show up (and hopefully close the speed gap once for all, but again, I not going to declare anything 'till I see benchmarks), but we can't act like they are a given at this point. We simply don't know what state of development they're at.
Temperance, folks.
P.S. -- For the record, I have nothing against rumor sites. I read them every day and I do hang on every post a lot of the time. On the other hand, having read MOSR before so many keynotes, I've learned to take all rumor sites with a grain of salt. Even Think Secret has been wrong on occation.
At the risk of restating a point made earlier by fukuhela, there is something that I think needs to be made clear here, before we all start making blood pacts against Apple if the 970 doesn't show.
There is an old adage that goes something like: "Hope for the best, plan for the worst."
Remember the G5.
Remember the 17" iMac.
Remember the Flat Panel iMac.
Remember the the PBG4.
All items that were thought in the can for so long and then never materialized until much later (or never in one case). Maybe my history is a little questionable, but I seem to recall that these all were considered givens at one show or another, only to get replaced by a solid, though not dramatic, upgrade which had a lot people (namely those frequenting rumor sites and taking them as absolute truth, amongst others) upset with Apple. Upset with them for doing no more or no less than they said they were going to do.
My point is that about the only we can say for sure is coming is some look at 10.3 (Panther). We cannot be sure of anything beyond that. History has taught us this. Nobody's saying that the 970s wouldn't be nice and I do sincerely hope they show up (and hopefully close the speed gap once for all, but again, I not going to declare anything 'till I see benchmarks), but we can't act like they are a given at this point. We simply don't know what state of development they're at.
Temperance, folks.
P.S. -- For the record, I have nothing against rumor sites. I read them every day and I do hang on every post a lot of the time. On the other hand, having read MOSR before so many keynotes, I've learned to take all rumor sites with a grain of salt. Even Think Secret has been wrong on occation.
Yeah - that's why http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/techinfo/planning/techoverview/default.asp says the following (my emphasis added):
Hmm...MacPrices.com's Power Mac tracker seems to say differently, everything seems to be in stock..maybe they'll update next week or so..
http://www.macprices.com/powermactracker.shtml
http://www.macprices.com/powermactracker.shtml
I'm in the same boat.
Except I just bought a dual 1.42 EXPECTING the 970s to come out soon. Whatever they say about the 970s when they come out, no one can say that this 1.42 isn't fast. I'm not going to regret getting this machine. Stable, fast, quiet. (warm though)
PLUS I have NEVER had luck with a first generation chip. My 7100 was slower than my quadra 650 and it never ran smooth. Then I got the G4 when it came out and my B&W G3 kicked it's butt on almost every task. That G4 was always giving me problems. I have been very disappointed in each 'new' chip.
I'll get the second generation 970 or a second gen 980 when those comes out. By then most apps should be written for 64bit. Plus the bugs should be worked out by then. (IMO)
I LOVE this dual 1.42!
Now I'm off to play some Unreal Tournament 2003 (techdemo)
It looks to me like the 970 is a sure thing for WWDC. Here's why:
1. Apple NEEDS something big to boost their sagging powermac sales, and 10.3 aint gonna cut the mustard in that respect.
2. Hasn't IBM said that production was way ahead of schedule? That the chip was complete long before they thought it would be?
3. Why would WWDC be pushed back a month if Apple didn't have something REALLY sweet to announce?
4. Motorola doesn't have anything that's going to be ready by WWDC. Have they ever? Apple needs to kick Motorola to the curb, and they need to do it ASAP. If Motorola doesn't have anything more than an upclocked G4 by WWDC, you can bet your buns Apple will go with the better chip: The 970.
I'm very excited about WWDC this year. Anyone know if there will be a streaming broadcast of the Stevenote?
1. Apple NEEDS something big to boost their sagging powermac sales, and 10.3 aint gonna cut the mustard in that respect.
2. Hasn't IBM said that production was way ahead of schedule? That the chip was complete long before they thought it would be?
3. Why would WWDC be pushed back a month if Apple didn't have something REALLY sweet to announce?
4. Motorola doesn't have anything that's going to be ready by WWDC. Have they ever? Apple needs to kick Motorola to the curb, and they need to do it ASAP. If Motorola doesn't have anything more than an upclocked G4 by WWDC, you can bet your buns Apple will go with the better chip: The 970.
I'm very excited about WWDC this year. Anyone know if there will be a streaming broadcast of the Stevenote?
Originally posted by maradong
i m praying for the PPC 970...
who is not ?
Me too (athiest thread posts notwithstanding).
WRONG!!!!
http://www.hp.com/workstations/itanium/index.html
http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/pseries/hardware/workstations/
Power4 and Itanic workstations. Sun does the same thing. You have the USIII in a workstation.
http://www.sun.com/desktop/sunblade2000/
The 970 is a cheaper version of the Power 4. Like the IIIi is a cheaper version of the III. The Power4 has a huge amount of cache, which is very expensive. The US III has a large amount as well. So they have their lower end counterparts.
Noverflow,
Name one major manufacturer selling Operton workstations?
Stella,
You said this However, Microsoft have ported XP to 64 bit. Where are all the amd/intel 64 bit processors? They aren't here yet available to consumers, so the existence of a 64 bit OS doesn't mean availability of 64 bit processors.
Why would Apple create a 64-bit OS only too have it sit around??????? Answer, they wont. That is a lot of effort spent on nothing. So if you dont want to be patronized, dont ask a stupid question.
See above for availability to the consumer.
1. Yep. Recall Steve's statement at the stockholder meeting that they were aware performance was a major problem and would be discussing their relationship with Motorola.
2. As far as I know, IBM hasn't publicly said anything since last year, when they said the 970 would be available in the second half of 2003. That's a wide range and they'd only have to be slightly ahead of schedule for Apple to be able to ship 970 Macs at WWDC.
3. Agreed. This is the strongest evidence in my opinion. Delaying WWDC solely for Panther just doesn't make sense.
4. Motorola is gone at the high end. If not at WWDC, as soon as possible.
As it stands now I think there's a 75% chance that the 970 will be announced at WWDC, and a 50% chance at least one model will be available immediately.
Lanbrown -
Lanbrown, Please, READ MY POST CORRECTLY !!!!!
FIRSTLY, I said, I don't expect 970 THIS month. However, I expect them to arrive at some point. Apple are creating a 64bit operating for forthcoming 970 machines.
SECONDLY I *NEVER EVER* said that they won't arrive at all.
THIRDLY I NEVER asked ANY QUESTIONS!!! I was commenting.
Lanbrown, Please, READ MY POST CORRECTLY !!!!!
FIRSTLY, I said, I don't expect 970 THIS month. However, I expect them to arrive at some point. Apple are creating a 64bit operating for forthcoming 970 machines.
SECONDLY I *NEVER EVER* said that they won't arrive at all.
THIRDLY I NEVER asked ANY QUESTIONS!!! I was commenting.
Simple Question:
Do we know 10.3 will be 64-bit aware?
I've read so many posts in this thread with people screaming that 10.3 will be a 64 bit OS therefore the 970 must be on it's way.
Has it even been *confirmed* that 10.3 will bring 64 bit to the Mac desktop?
Do we know 10.3 will be 64-bit aware?
I've read so many posts in this thread with people screaming that 10.3 will be a 64 bit OS therefore the 970 must be on it's way.
Has it even been *confirmed* that 10.3 will bring 64 bit to the Mac desktop?
Not sure about the accuracy of this... Everywhere I checked lists a fair number of all models, including the dual 1.4's. (Fewer 1.4's than the others, but it is the top-end model.)
Online right now, Clubmac lists 215 in stock. (Probably at their distributer rather than in their own warehouse.)
Hopefully they're running low elsewhere and the G5 (or whatever its called) is coming quite soon.
Online right now, Clubmac lists 215 in stock. (Probably at their distributer rather than in their own warehouse.)
Hopefully they're running low elsewhere and the G5 (or whatever its called) is coming quite soon.
2. Hasn't IBM said that production was way ahead of schedule? That the chip was complete long before they thought it would be?
cough cough FATE cough
Hate to bust and bubbles but from Apple's own PR site:
CUPERTINO, California?March 21, 2003?Apple® today announced that it has rescheduled its 2003 Worldwide Developers Conference in order to provide developers with a more complete preview release of the next version of Mac® OS X, code named ?Panther.? Originally scheduled for May 19-23 in San Jose, the conference will now be held June 23-27 at San Francisco?s Moscone Center.
Granted if you're a hard core rumormonger you take "more complete preview" to mean hardware to back the software :-D.
IMHO I think we're looking to see WWDC as a starting point for 64-bit. Developers need to be coding 32/64-bit Hybrid apps now (since most of them are too lazy to code more altivec like they should) and Apple plans to SHOW (not ship, not off a DEVELOPERS CONFERENCE) their 64-bit solution, which is a 64-bit Project Builder suite, which i wonder if it will compile 64-bit code on a 32-bit machine. Hmm. But show off their 970s running 64-bit apps, not actually sell them at that time. Apple could've shown off 970s at WWDC if it was last month if they wanted to enough, Apple has had semi-stable (demo-able) 970s since early this year around 1.2ghz i estimate. Moto's 85xx series is already unimpressive and it's not out yet, clearly Moto plans to move towards 100% imbeedded where their crappy slow chips belong.
So: WWDC: see panther, want panther, see 970s, want 970s. You won't get either unless you bring a DVD-R and/or pay off some apply employee to take a walk ;-)
cough cough FATE cough
Hate to bust and bubbles but from Apple's own PR site:
CUPERTINO, California?March 21, 2003?Apple® today announced that it has rescheduled its 2003 Worldwide Developers Conference in order to provide developers with a more complete preview release of the next version of Mac® OS X, code named ?Panther.? Originally scheduled for May 19-23 in San Jose, the conference will now be held June 23-27 at San Francisco?s Moscone Center.
Granted if you're a hard core rumormonger you take "more complete preview" to mean hardware to back the software :-D.
IMHO I think we're looking to see WWDC as a starting point for 64-bit. Developers need to be coding 32/64-bit Hybrid apps now (since most of them are too lazy to code more altivec like they should) and Apple plans to SHOW (not ship, not off a DEVELOPERS CONFERENCE) their 64-bit solution, which is a 64-bit Project Builder suite, which i wonder if it will compile 64-bit code on a 32-bit machine. Hmm. But show off their 970s running 64-bit apps, not actually sell them at that time. Apple could've shown off 970s at WWDC if it was last month if they wanted to enough, Apple has had semi-stable (demo-able) 970s since early this year around 1.2ghz i estimate. Moto's 85xx series is already unimpressive and it's not out yet, clearly Moto plans to move towards 100% imbeedded where their crappy slow chips belong.
So: WWDC: see panther, want panther, see 970s, want 970s. You won't get either unless you bring a DVD-R and/or pay off some apply employee to take a walk ;-)
