Low rise apartments vs high rise apartments in Canada and the US culture differences?

[B S Magnet]

But that does not explain how LA that had explosive growth was able to do it.

1940	1,504,277

1950	1,970,358

1960	2,479,015

1970	2,811,801

1990	3,485,398

2000	3,694,820

Los Angeles - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And I’m sure LA had lot of poor and low income people not to say people coming from other countries and moving to LA Not having much money.

And other California cities had lots of growth post WW2.

OK. Let me share with you an analogy.

Toronto is a cherry.
Los Angeles is a lemon.

Canada is Prunus.
The U.S. is Citrus.

Both are trees bearing fruits.
One is deciduous, the other is evergreen.

One is found in cooler, temperate climates where it often snows.
One is found in perennially warm, sunny climates.

Both have their unique origins.

But aside from these both being trees bearing fruits,
they’re cherries and lemons.

🍒.
🍋.

You follow?

My turn to ask questions!

Could you tell us a little about yourself?

 

[Bubble99]

OK. Let me share with you an analogy.

Toronto is a cherry.
Los Angeles is a lemon.

Canada is Prunus.
The U.S. is Citrus.

Both are trees bearing fruits.
One is deciduous, the other is evergreen.

One is found in cooler, temperate climates where it often snows.
One is found in perennially warm, sunny climates.

Both have their unique origins.

But aside from these both being trees bearing fruits,
they’re cherries and lemons.

🍒.
🍋.

You follow?

My turn to ask questions!

Could you tell us a little about yourself?

That me know when you are serious to have discussion. You have not explain why Canada has so many high rise apartments all over Canada.

On a side note the sun belt cities have had major growth after WW2 and there is lots of low rise apartment in those cities.

This is culture thing it has nothing to do with housing cost, land value or sprawl.

In the US lot of the low income and poor are in apartment.

 

[B S Magnet]

I know Abbottsford from Highway thru Hell (aka as Highway Heroes Canada) and dated a girl from Markham, but her family had a SFH.

Yah, Markham, until the 2000s, was more or less entirely single-family houses.

The city developed a transit-oriented plan for the town centre and have been building higher mid-rise condo towers with modern, downtown-like avenues and sidewalks. I last visited there in 2015, and I remember quite a few new condo towers were slated to break ground in that cluster.

Once you travel east of Abbottsford on the Trans-Canada, the skill level one needs for driving, especially at night, really goes up a few notches. Or, in my case, it was also raining.

 

[B S Magnet]

That me know when you are serious to have discussion. You have not explain why Canada has so many high rise apartments all over Canada.

@Bubble99: I would not have voluntarily written at length the way I did today to answer your several questions — thoroughly and referenced — if I wasn’t serious. On the contrary: I am questioning your sincerity.

At this point, I think I’ll be pausing this conversation with you, as I don’t see you conversing any further in good faith. Have a good evening and, if you’re feeling really generous, sleep on it. Then come back in the morning and maybe go back through our conversation from today. Maybe spend some time reseaching some or several of the citations I linked for you.

I may come back to the discussion if I believe your participation is true, sincere, and in good faith.

Good night.

 

[Bubble99]

OK. Let me share with you an analogy.

Toronto is a cherry.
Los Angeles is a lemon.

Canada is Prunus.
The U.S. is Citrus.

Both are trees bearing fruits.
One is deciduous, the other is evergreen.

One is found in cooler, temperate climates where it often snows.
One is found in perennially warm, sunny climates.

Both have their unique origins.

But aside from these both being trees bearing fruits,
they’re cherries and lemons.

🍒.
🍋.

You follow?

My turn to ask questions!

Could you tell us a little about yourself?

Also you did not explain this.

Also is it most of America apartments 1 to 5 stories mostly made out of wood? Where Canada mid rise and high rise is made out of large concrete with fire safety in mind? The Canadian government may have ban those low rise apartments because they are cheaply made.

If so the cost for investors and developers to make apartment out of large concrete is very costly so it is cheaper to build high rise apartments because all those people in the apartment pay for the construction cost?

 

[AlaskaMoose]

a. Normally in the US city planning has zoning laws that high rise goes in high density areas and mid rise goes in medium density areas and low rise goes in low density areas. And high rise goes in the down town area.

b. Some cities may even have hight limit zoning to not block view of skyline of mountains

3. Canada may have non of this and any thing goes may explain why it is so different up there in Canada.

It would be so much easier for you to find all the answers by asking the city planners. They keep the construction records through the years.

In reference to "a" above: zoning laws, construction/safety codes, and things like that apply to both Canada and the US. Also, these laws are changed every few years. Again, take a look at Manhattan-for example, where you have high-rise apartment buildings. Why do you think this is? Manhattan is much like a narrow parcel of land where only a certain number of buildings can fit. In this case there isn't any other option but to go up. But you can also take a look in every one of the boroughs, and you will find a great number of very tall apartment buildings all over the place.

b. All cities and towns, even here in Alaska, have such limits. Even residents living in a mountain have to follow the construction rules. For example, the dwelling at a lower level than yours shall not obstruct your view. The same applies to you. In this case you shall not build a tall house that blocks the view of the neighbor above you on the mountain.

C. I am certain that Canada has similar construction and other rules, except that they use "metrics" and the US doesn't unless it is required (some areas of the military, space, the medical system, and so on.

Again, there are a lot of similarities in both the US and Canada, at least relation to the industry, construction, safety standards (including worker safety, and so on), hazardous waste/disposal, and on, and on. Canada is divided in provinces, while the US has States. The US is highly populated compared to Canada. But Canada by itself is quite a big chunk of land, too. Commerce between the US and Canada is quite important and large. Americans work in Canada, and Canadians work in the US. I don't know what else to tell you other than that, "you are assuming" possible differences between the US and Canada that don't exist. There are differences between the provinces, and there are differences between the states.

 

[B S Magnet]

It would be so much easier for you to find all the answers by asking the city planners. They keep the construction records through the years.

Yup. And even older construction records may be maintained in city archives and/or land registry offices. The latter are meticulous on documenting a running record of activity on a parcel of land.

In reference to "a" above: zoning laws, construction/safety codes, and things like that apply to both Canada and the US. Also, these laws are changed every few years. Again, take a look at Manhattan-for example, where you have high-rise apartment buildings. Why do you think this is? Manhattan is much like a narrow parcel of land where only a certain number of buildings can fit. In this case there isn't any other option but to go up. But you can also take a look in every one of the boroughs, and you will find high-rise apartments all over the place.

I’ve gotten the distinct impression Bubble99 is either unmotivated to delve into their own learning of how these things work (note to Bubble: there are people who will answer your call if you ask for help and ask constructive, well-thought-out, responsive questions); or (and I’m hoping this isn’t the case) has a deficit in aptitude for understanding abstract concepts.

b. All cities and towns, even here in Alaska, have such limits. Even residents living in a mountain have to follow the construction rules. For example, the dwelling at a lower level than yours shall not obstruct your view. The same applies to you. In this case you shall not build a tall house that blacks the view of the neighbor above you on the mountain.

Yup. In cities, planners — either or both the city planner and planner consulting for a developer — prepare shade analyses of proposed structures to assess their impacts on how the project’s shade, or shadow footprint will impact the amount of sunlight adjacent areas, like residences and parks, will receive during the winter, summer, and equinox at key times of day (typically 9a, noon, and 3p). These get depicted with isometric maps.

C. I am certain that Canada has similar construction and other rules, except that they use "metrics" and the US doesn't unless it is required (some areas of the military, space, the medical system, and so on.

Yah. As with most of the world, we use metric and °C(elsius) here. Y’all, along with Myanmar, and Liberia, use imperial and °F(reedom).

 

[Bubble99]

It would be so much easier for you to find all the answers by asking the city planners. They keep the construction records through the years.

That true but would B S Magnet not know if wood frame apartments meet the fire safety code in Canada or if it has to be all concrete? I’m the one thinking those cheaply made apartments in the US are ban in Canada because of fire safety. I’m the one thinking if wood frame apartments are ban investors and developers are not going to build 2 to 6 story all concrete apartments but build high rise apartments to pay for the construction.

Would B S Magnet not know if high density has to be built along city bus lines?

 

[B S Magnet]

That true but would B S Magnet not know if wood frame apartments meet the fire safety code in Canada or if it has to be all concrete?

If we go back to the first sentence in my first reply to Bubble99 [oh, wait, it’s you again oh nooo] last day which got this whole discussion going, the answer is both “yes, broadly”, and “yes, specifically, but after: a) taking into account a project plan specifically, and then, b) reviewing those specifications against current to municipal and provincial building codes, as well as core federal safety regulations maintained by the National Building Code and the National Research Council.”

My area of specialization isn’t site construction, but in public spacing design and, secondary to that, local-level and social planning. Site construction oversight tends to be the core purview of both an architect(s) and, depending on the scope, civil engineer and/or design-build firm to review blueprints.

Update: And here I was thinking I was replying to @AlaskaMoose . My bad!

I’m the one thinking those cheaply made apartments in the US are ban in Canada because of fire safety. I’m the one thinking if wood frame apartments are ban investors and developers are not going to build 2 to 6 story all concrete apartments.

I think I have a mental picture of the suburban American apartment complex form factor you’re describing, versus the apartment form factor being constructed around most urbanized, medium-density areas of Canada these days (note: at this time, 82 per cent of all Canadian residents live in areas which are classified as urban).

At first glance, the scale for each are similar, but core material materials, as well as styling, tend to appeal to the different aesthetic preferences of folks in each country.

That is: you rarely see construction around here which echo uniquely American(ized) architectural trends.

That also said: approved regulations for use of specific wood-based materials for structures (once reserved for steel beams or reinforced concrete) are being applied here for high-rise-scale residential housing, using materials like cross-laminated timber (CLT).

Would B S Magnet not know if high density has to be built along city bus lines?

Generally, it depends on what municipal and provincial goals are.

But more to the context of 2024, you’re going to be hard-pressed to find a municipality allowing for the construction of single-family detached/semi-detached dwellings or two-storey apartment complexes being built along an urban transit corridor (for bus, bus rapid transit, streetcar/trolley, light rail, etc.). That may have flown back in 1960 or even 1970, but lots of luck to anyone who wants to do that now.

Hope that answers some of your questions. Cheers.

Update: No more effort with you, Bubble99! You don’t even show you’re attempting to learn from any of this! I ought to send you over to my Patreon. I always welcome the extra scratch on the side.

 

[Bubble99]

I’m sorry but I have some more questions.

Was it available farmland in Canada or public transit ridership that Canadian cities and suburbs grow much more dense than the US?

We are talking 50s and 60s. Where in 1961 Canada had 18,238,247 people. I believe some thing like only 20% of the land is available for farming in Canada where if I’m not mistaken the US has way more available farmland than Canada.

Did lot of cities have anti sprawl measures in place in the 50s and 60s because of available farmland in Canada is so little because of the Canadian Shield and tundra land making up 80% of the land in Canada?

Some one said Canada had a massive shortage of housing in Canada and this was one of the reason they built so many high rise apartment. What a massive shortage of housing in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s? How did the US do it with out having massive housing shortage. The US had rust belt move and white flight move how did they do it with out a massive shortage of housing?

Why in the US is it more expensive to build high rise apartments but not Canada?

Was Canadian middle class weaker in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s unlike the US? Did not have the money to buy a house and to rent first. Did the US government make housing more available to people in the US than Canada.

 

[Clix Pix]

I’m sorry but I have some more questions.

Was it available farmland in Canada or public transit ridership that Canadian cities and suburbs grow much more dense than the US?

We are talking 50s and 60s. Where in 1961 Canada had 18,238,247 people. I believe some thing like only 20% of the land is available for farming in Canada where if I’m not mistaken the US has way more available farmland than Canada.

Did lot of cities have anti sprawl measures in place in the 50s and 60s because of available farmland in Canada is so little because of the Canadian Shield and tundra land making up 80% of the land in Canada?

Some one said Canada had a massive shortage of housing in Canada and this was one of the reason they built so many high rise apartment. What a massive shortage of housing in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s? How did the US do it with out having massive housing shortage. The US had rust belt move and white flight move how did they do it with out a massive shortage of housing?

Why in the US is it more expensive to build high rise apartments but not Canada?

Was Canadian middle class weaker in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s unlike the US? Did not have the money to buy a house and to rent first. Did the US government make housing more available to people in the US than Canada.

Bubble99, why is all of this so seemingly really, really important to you? How does it have an impact your own life in particular?

Frankly, (IMHO) MR, which is a primarily computer-and-tech-oriented site, is not exactly the most appropriate place in which to be asking these questions, anyway. Some of them veer into the potentially controversial area of social issues which are no longer regarded as casually nor permitted to be as vigorously discussed in threads as they had been in the past with the PRSI subforum.

You want answers? Why aren't you asking these questions on architectural or urban planning/design focused sites, where people who actually spend their time studying and actually earning a living doing exactly this sort of thing may hang out and be more willing and knowledgeable enough to truly engage in discussions around the questions you ask?

 

[Bubble99]

Bubble99, why is all of this so seemingly really, really important to you? How does it have an impact your own life in particular?

Frankly, (IMHO) MR, which is a primarily computer-and-tech-oriented site, is not exactly the most appropriate place in which to be asking these questions, anyway. Some of them veer into the potentially controversial area of social issues which are no longer regarded as casually nor permitted to be as vigorously discussed in threads as they had been in the past with the PRSI subforum.

You want answers? Why aren't you asking these questions on architectural or urban planning/design focused sites, where people who actually spend their time studying and actually earning a living doing exactly this sort of thing may hang out and be more willing and knowledgeable enough to truly engage in discussions around the questions you ask?

I thought may be B S Magnet can reply as he is a city planner and works in Canada.

I’m sure B S Magnet can say some stuff may be not all my questions will be answered.

 

[Richard8655]

Bubble99, why is all of this so seemingly really, really important to you? How does it have an impact your own life in particular?

Frankly, (IMHO) MR, which is a primarily computer-and-tech-oriented site, is not exactly the most appropriate place in which to be asking these questions, anyway. Some of them veer into the potentially controversial area of social issues which are no longer regarded as casually nor permitted to be as vigorously discussed in threads as they had been in the past with the PRSI subforum.

You want answers? Why aren't you asking these questions on architectural or urban planning/design focused sites, where people who actually spend their time studying and actually earning a living doing exactly this sort of thing may hang out and be more willing and knowledgeable enough to truly engage in discussions around the questions you ask?

Yes, this topic would be good for forums that specialize in urban planning and the like. But still interesting for this forum.

 

[B S Magnet]

Bubble99, why is all of this so seemingly really, really important to you? How does it have an impact your own life in particular?

They won’t answer that. For reasons. Maybe out of fear or something more banal, idk.

Frankly, (IMHO) MR, which is a primarily computer-and-tech-oriented site, is not exactly the most appropriate place in which to be asking these questions, anyway. Some of them veer into the potentially controversial area of social issues which are no longer regarded as casually nor permitted to be as vigorously discussed in threads as they had been in the past with the PRSI subforum.

They were just lucky to have run into an urbanist on a computer-and-tech-based forum. I was unlucky in that I hadn’t realized I was stumbling upon not a person self-motivated to learn and to ask good questions, but a person who said, after all was done, their name was Urban Nosferatu.

Consequently, I am now drained of all life. Please tell my kids I love them.

You want answers? Why aren't you asking these questions on architectural or urban planning/design focused sites, where people who actually spend their time studying and actually earning a living doing exactly this sort of thing may hang out and be more willing and knowledgeable enough to truly engage in discussions around the questions you ask?

There used to be such a forum, although its members were involved in some way with planning and not, generally, fielding many people from the general public. It also had a distinctly American slant — which was relevant in that laws around land use and governance structure there didn’t translate terribly well over to other regions where non-American practitioners and students worked and lived.

I thought may be B S Magnet can reply as he is a city planner and works in Canada.

My g-d. I’m not a “he”. For the love of Jane, do some basic diligence.

I’m sure B S Magnet can say some stuff may be not all my questions will be answered.

Then pay me with cash money, starting with a deposit. I can draw up a legally binding contract you can sign, if it pleases you.

I’m always happy to help to demystify urbanist things for folks who show an initiative to go do a bit of their own work and to ask smart, thoughtful questions whenever they can’t find the answers themselves. But that collegiality withers once it’s clear they’re disinterested and/or incapable of doing these basic things. I can’t help them with that.

As you presented yourself the other day to be the latter, I’m also not going to consult for you or to be your urban topics tutor for free — especially not on or via MR forums. I only happen to use Macs — I don’t just use them on TV. That’s why I participate here.

 

[Bubble99]

They won’t answer that. For reasons. Maybe out of fear or something more banal, idk.



They were just lucky to have run into an urbanist on a computer-and-tech-based forum. I was unlucky in that I hadn’t realized I was stumbling upon not a person self-motivated to learn and to ask good questions, but a person who said, after all was done, their name was Urban Nosferatu.

Consequently, I am now drained of all life. Please tell my kids I love them.




There used to be such a forum, although its members were involved in some way with planning and not, generally, fielding many people from the general public. It also had a distinctly American slant — which was relevant in that laws around land use and governance structure there didn’t translate terribly well over to other regions where non-American practitioners and students worked and lived.




My g-d. I’m not a “he”. For the love of Jane, do some basic diligence.



Then pay me with cash money, starting with a deposit. I can draw up a legally binding contract you can sign, if it pleases you.

I’m always happy to help to demystify urbanist things for folks who show an initiative to go do a bit of their own work and to ask smart, thoughtful questions whenever they can’t find the answers themselves. But that collegiality withers once it’s clear they’re disinterested and/or incapable of doing these basic things. I can’t help them with that.

As you presented yourself the other day to be the latter, I’m also not going to consult for you or to be your urban topics tutor for free — especially not on or via MR forums. I only happen to use Macs — I don’t just use them on TV. That’s why I participate here.

Well if I really wanted an answer I guess I could call city hall and speak to city planner and she or he could help me. But I thought well at least some of my questions would be answered in this forum.

Well it looks like B S Magnet is getting tired of the back and forth questions. I don’t know what more to say or what questions to ask at this point the last post above was the only thing I could think of. If farmland was not issue back in the 50s and 60s sprawl eating up farmland and sprawl was not issue or high public transit ridership had nothing to do with it than I’m not sure at this point why other than culture differences at this point.

Also B S Magnet said there was massive housing shortage and that why they build so many high rise apartment. I will like to know what housing shortage from 1950 to 1980s in Canada that long? how did the US not have housing shortage with rust belt city move and white flight move. And sun belt cities that had massive growth post WW2.

 

[Bubble99]

I believe Ontario does allow wood frame apartments up to 6 stories now in Ontario by looking at building code.

It unclear from my understanding if the building code allowed wood frame apartments in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

For some strange reason Victoria BC has lot of low rise apartments that you just don’t see other places in Canada and very much so in Ontario.

 

[B S Magnet]

I believe Ontario does allow wood frame apartments up to 6 stories now in Ontario by looking at building code.

It unclear from my understanding if the building code allowed wood frame apartments in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

For some strange reason Victoria BC has lot of low rise apartments that you just don’t see other places in Canada and very much so in Ontario.

This is your long-term homework assignment: read the entire textbook.

No charge.

Once you’re done with that textbook, start and read this entire textbook.

It’s free.

When you’ve read those two textbooks, start and read this entire textbook.

You’re welcome.

For all three textbooks, have TextEdit open and use it to take plenty of notes and to write down questions you have as you read each chapter. Use the texts to help to answer your own questions.

Take all the time you need.

Once you’re done with those three, I can supply more titles for reading.

Until then, you can ask all the questions you want, but I can’t lead a horse to water if it doesn’t want to drink.