The adaptor in first post should work now with NVMe SSD's because OS should support it. Since 10.13(?) it's ok! I have Late 2013 MBPr with the Apple connector like that adaptor. That is electrically a PCIe, just the connectors mixed. Next weeks mine will arrive, so I'll post what is the result!
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M.2 PCIe SSD adapter for Mac's
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I was told M.2 adapters leads to CRC errors that eventually kills the SSD…?
Mine is a Samsung 970 EVO and seems to be working fine except the replies below are from a thread about MP3 skipping on playback:
https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/577063/Audio+issues+-+files+on+separate+drive
Not one to diss free help but… Any truth in that…?
[doublepost=1562751239][/doublepost]My Samsung 970 EVO with copper heatsink (can't find a picture of the adapter):
Mine is a Samsung 970 EVO and seems to be working fine except the replies below are from a thread about MP3 skipping on playback:
https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/577063/Audio+issues+-+files+on+separate+drive
Not one to diss free help but… Any truth in that…?
[doublepost=1562751239][/doublepost]My Samsung 970 EVO with copper heatsink (can't find a picture of the adapter):
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This is the first I’ve heard of it. That said, anyone who claims OWC SSD’s to be “better”, leaves me dubious of their conclusions. I doubt there is merit to these claims with regards to the current lineup of the commonly used NVMe SSDs like Samsung and those with Phison controllers and quality adapters.
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Like we used to say, paper accepts everything.
With a Mac Pro 5,1, CRC errors are a possibility when you use cheap adapters, since the differential pairs of the PCIe signal lines could be of different lengths. This causes timing and impedance problems and it's a real issue but in a scale infinitesimal to what the ifixit poster was implying. With MacBooks Pro, iMacs and MP6,1 the problem is more mechanical than anything since the adapters from Apple pinout to M.2 are so short.
Another problem is thermals, no should use a M.2 PCIe blade without a heatsink.
Yeah he's insisting on it even when I posted that is more likely that my issue was due to file system (APFS vs HFS) and seems to have gone after I changed the file system.
Also not only I do have a quite beefy copper heatsink on my Samsung EVO 970 but here are some pictures of the adapter. It is basically a tiny PCB that 'rewires' the path from one standard to another with a connector attached to it - no resistors, capacitors or any components other than the connector:
And that was my answer that so far seems to have fixed it - still testing though:
TL;DR: avoid APFS. It’s promising on paper but too buggy.
Further development might change that but as it is it ain't worth it.
I’ve had issues with APFS before but thought it was user error: couldn’t install an APFS drive on a new machine that haven’t been upgraded to Mojave and wouldn’t ‘see’ the drive - an iMac so imagine the hassle of opening it up again as I didn’t have a Mojave USB ready since I wasn’t expecting to have that issue.
To this day I can’t run Mojave on a RAID zero system - the option is there on the install but it won’t work.
A friend is having lots of issues servicing Mac Pros - every time it gets an update its drives fail. So much so that he started to tell his clients he won’t service any machine with a system later than Sierra.
But till this latest problem I still haven’t realised it could all be due to APFS - automatic and ‘mandatory’ with High Sierra and Mojave.
So what I did and recommend if anyone wants Mojave running on HFS file system:
-Install carbon copy cloner on either Mojave or High Sierra on the Mac you having issues due to APFS;
-Get a external SSD with HFS file system big enough to get the system cloned into it - and clone it.
-Reboot, press option, boot into the external drive. Run disk utility, wipe internal drive as HFS, run carbon copy clone again and this time do it the other way around: clone from external to internal drive.
There you have it: Mojave running on HFS. Or High Sierra if that's what you want.
Still on testing stages but all seems to be running ok and the issues reported on original post are gone!
Just don’t know what will happen if there are any other updates but with Catalina soon to be released I don’t think Apple will put any more effort in updating an OS that’s soon to be ‘obsolete’.
And when Catalina does get released I’ll do the same as above to get it running on HFS.
Until further development and considering my issues and my friend's issues I can’t un-recommend APFS enough!
[doublepost=1562901664][/doublepost]Oh and since we're on it: what could be causing iTunes' MP3 playback to hiccup?
Seems to have fixed with file system changed but if that's not it what could it be…?
Also not only I do have a quite beefy copper heatsink on my Samsung EVO 970 but here are some pictures of the adapter. It is basically a tiny PCB that 'rewires' the path from one standard to another with a connector attached to it - no resistors, capacitors or any components other than the connector:
And that was my answer that so far seems to have fixed it - still testing though:
TL;DR: avoid APFS. It’s promising on paper but too buggy.
Further development might change that but as it is it ain't worth it.
I’ve had issues with APFS before but thought it was user error: couldn’t install an APFS drive on a new machine that haven’t been upgraded to Mojave and wouldn’t ‘see’ the drive - an iMac so imagine the hassle of opening it up again as I didn’t have a Mojave USB ready since I wasn’t expecting to have that issue.
To this day I can’t run Mojave on a RAID zero system - the option is there on the install but it won’t work.
A friend is having lots of issues servicing Mac Pros - every time it gets an update its drives fail. So much so that he started to tell his clients he won’t service any machine with a system later than Sierra.
But till this latest problem I still haven’t realised it could all be due to APFS - automatic and ‘mandatory’ with High Sierra and Mojave.
So what I did and recommend if anyone wants Mojave running on HFS file system:
-Install carbon copy cloner on either Mojave or High Sierra on the Mac you having issues due to APFS;
-Get a external SSD with HFS file system big enough to get the system cloned into it - and clone it.
-Reboot, press option, boot into the external drive. Run disk utility, wipe internal drive as HFS, run carbon copy clone again and this time do it the other way around: clone from external to internal drive.
There you have it: Mojave running on HFS. Or High Sierra if that's what you want.
Still on testing stages but all seems to be running ok and the issues reported on original post are gone!
Just don’t know what will happen if there are any other updates but with Catalina soon to be released I don’t think Apple will put any more effort in updating an OS that’s soon to be ‘obsolete’.
And when Catalina does get released I’ll do the same as above to get it running on HFS.
Until further development and considering my issues and my friend's issues I can’t un-recommend APFS enough!
[doublepost=1562901664][/doublepost]Oh and since we're on it: what could be causing iTunes' MP3 playback to hiccup?
Seems to have fixed with file system changed but if that's not it what could it be…?
Your problem is unrelated to APFS, APFS is used since iOS 11.3 in all iOS devices and every Mac since High Sierra. If APFS had a problem, millions of Macs and hundreds of millions of iOS devices would catch it. Look elsewhere, it's not APFS.
What's your Mac? A lot of officially unsupported Macs are having audio playback problems (stuttering) since 10.14.3.
[doublepost=1562902645][/doublepost]BTW, Apple remove bootable RAID support since Mojave. Seems Catalina DP3 started to support it again.
Mine is a 2015 iMac 27" so definitely not unsupported.
Neither are the Mac Pros my friend services and he just flat out started to refuse working on anything with OSX later than Sierra i.e.: he won't service if it has APFS anymore, too many issues.
Oh and iOS is VERY different than OSX as far as I know… Catalina might close the gap a bit more but still not there yet…
[doublepost=1562919778][/doublepost]I'm considering if overheating might be the issue then?
I mean the copper heatsink I have is thick but looking closely doesn't seem to have much gap for air to flow through so maybe it ain't enough (though the SSD itself had no heatsink at all so…)
Neither are the Mac Pros my friend services and he just flat out started to refuse working on anything with OSX later than Sierra i.e.: he won't service if it has APFS anymore, too many issues.
Oh and iOS is VERY different than OSX as far as I know… Catalina might close the gap a bit more but still not there yet…
[doublepost=1562919778][/doublepost]I'm considering if overheating might be the issue then?
I mean the copper heatsink I have is thick but looking closely doesn't seem to have much gap for air to flow through so maybe it ain't enough (though the SSD itself had no heatsink at all so…)
So I think it's official? The OWC Aura Pro X2 and N is officially compatible with the 2019 iMacs which is good news! Great for people who don't want to DIY!
Here's their latest YouTube video on how to install the Aura SSD on the iMac 2019
Here's their latest YouTube video on how to install the Aura SSD on the iMac 2019
Well here's more from the guy on iFixit:
"Each time you create a splice in a pathway you create a signal disturber. In computers we talk about CrossTalk as well as Adjacent-channel interference These are more likely the root issue. The higher the data rate the more the disturbance creates to the signal which in turns causes the low level CRC error.
Thats why it appears to be OK when you don't push your system but as soon as you do, the system craps out. Your SSD can handle at a slow rate but if you push it too hard that heat will cause them to fail. Here they fail as the constant CRC errors push the micro-controller to overheat as well as wear the cells.
Can you still use this SSD? For sure YES!!! But not internally! Get a USB to M.2 case for it.
Go back to your friend and ask him about the effect of crosstalk and adjacent-channel interference. I would like to hear what he thinks about that. Remember at lower data rates the effect is smaller! It's when you push the data rate up is when the connection breaks down."
[doublepost=1563261696][/doublepost]And like I told him:
I'm listening to MP3 on iTunes with only Outlook and some Cloud apps (DropBox and the like) running in the background how can this be considered 'pushing too hard'…?
Also is there any tool to check for CRC errors and confirm this? I'd be happy to…
"Each time you create a splice in a pathway you create a signal disturber. In computers we talk about CrossTalk as well as Adjacent-channel interference These are more likely the root issue. The higher the data rate the more the disturbance creates to the signal which in turns causes the low level CRC error.
Thats why it appears to be OK when you don't push your system but as soon as you do, the system craps out. Your SSD can handle at a slow rate but if you push it too hard that heat will cause them to fail. Here they fail as the constant CRC errors push the micro-controller to overheat as well as wear the cells.
Can you still use this SSD? For sure YES!!! But not internally! Get a USB to M.2 case for it.
Go back to your friend and ask him about the effect of crosstalk and adjacent-channel interference. I would like to hear what he thinks about that. Remember at lower data rates the effect is smaller! It's when you push the data rate up is when the connection breaks down."
You are the 'friend' he's talking about there I suppose lol
[doublepost=1563261696][/doublepost]And like I told him:
I'm listening to MP3 on iTunes with only Outlook and some Cloud apps (DropBox and the like) running in the background how can this be considered 'pushing too hard'…?
Also is there any tool to check for CRC errors and confirm this? I'd be happy to…
It's just stupid to continue this discussion. If the cross talk problems were real and widespread as this guy thinks, why all owners of Mac Pros, some with 4 or 8 NVMe blades installed don't have any CRC problems or why U.2 drives work without any cross talk with that long cables?
I have 5 PCIe blades installed now, 4 AHCI (AHCI PCIe drives are called SATA Express in Apple lingo, just check the interconnect) and one NVMe:
You can use DriveDX to check for any errors.
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I agree… It seems iFixit is turning into some sort of Apple Forum look-alike: every suggestion is always 'replace it with brand new' or 'get Apple original' and so on.
If that's what I were looking for I wouldn't be asking for help… Where's the 'I fix it' that's right in their name…? ¬¬
I did and it showed nothing on the M.2 drive but it does show 1 CRC error on the HDD.
So I guess my questions now would be:
1) should I be worried with that single CRC error on the HDD and if so can it be fixed?
2) why the heck do I get 'hiccups' when I'm listening my MP3s and watching my movies?
I'm puzzled never had this issue before in over 10 years as a Mac user…
Oh and thanks for the help so far
You should ask on the iMac forum, but your iMac problem seems similar to damaged MBP SATA cables. When the cable is damaged the south bridge SATA controller is blocked until the transmission is confirmed ok.I agree… It seems iFixit is turning into some sort of Apple Forum look-alike: every suggestion is always 'replace it with brand new' or 'get Apple original' and so on.
If that's what I were looking for I wouldn't be asking for help… Where's the 'I fix it' that's right in their name…? ¬¬
I did and it showed nothing on the M.2 drive but it does show 1 CRC error on the HDD.
So I guess my questions now would be:
1) should I be worried with that single CRC error on the HDD and if so can it be fixed?
2) why the heck do I get 'hiccups' when I'm listening my MP3s and watching my movies?
I'm puzzled never had this issue before in over 10 years as a Mac user…
Oh and thanks for the help so far
Test your iMac with an external USB/TB drive with macOS installed and all internal drives disconnected and check if the same problems happen again. Run Apple Diagnostics/ASD/etc and check for errors.
All adapters that have a PCIe 3.0 switch, like Highpoint SSD7101-A and brothers, show the link speed correctly as 8GT/s. The PCIe 3.0 switch transform internally PCIe 2.0 x16 to PCIe 3.0 x4.
But then... why the graphics card didn't do the same??? Don't they have an intérnalo switch too?
Ps: this is my last question for not inquiry in a off-toppic...
Someone commented on this before but seems the motive of this different from a PCIe 3.0 switch since pcietools don't show a switch on the GPU.
AFAIK, only Tesla boxes have PCIe switches but some high end USB cards with independent channels have basic PCIe switches.