M1 Bootable Backups!

[Mike Boreham]

This I did not know. Does this still work if the "other" Mac is an Intel based version ? And I suppose that the "other" Mac has to be at the same version of MacOS ? (Which a bootable external obviated)

I don't have an Intel Mac to test on, but I would expect it to work. There is no operating system on a data only clone. It is just data (and apps and settings etc).
The kind of problems you are asking about might apply if you were trying to install a system onto it or using it as a migration source, but not as a browsable read/write drive with data on it.

 

[applesed]

My main question is, if I do a backup of an M1 Apple computer, with latest version of SuperDuper or CC, can I boot off of that backup and install it onto the drive of a different M1 Apple computer?

 

[Mike Boreham]

My main question is, if I do a backup of an M1 Apple computer, with latest version of SuperDuper or CC, can I boot off of that backup and install it onto the drive of a different M1 Apple computer?

You can make a data-only clone with Superduper, CCC or Time Machine, and migrate from it onto the drive of a different M1 computer....same end result.

 

[applesed]

You can make a data-only clone with Superduper, CCC or Time Machine, and migrate from it onto the drive of a different M1 computer....same end result.

Thanks but I'm asking a different question, I think its my wording. Historically on Intel Macs you can clone (I meant to say clone before not backup) from one Intel Mac and boot off that drive and copy onto that other Mac from the external to the native drive, so that the 2nd Mac is identical in configuration/data as the first. Is there any reason you cannot do this today for Apple Silicon Macs with current versions of Superduper or CCC?

 

[Mike Boreham]

Thanks but I'm asking a different question, I think its my wording. Historically on Intel Macs you can clone (I meant to say clone before not backup) from one Intel Mac and boot off that drive and copy onto that other Mac from the external to the native drive, so that the 2nd Mac is identical in configuration/data as the first. Is there any reason you cannot do this today for Apple Silicon Macs with current versions of Superduper or CCC?

Booting M1 Macs from external drives is currently problematical which is why I gave the method recommended by Apple and CCC for achieving the same end result, ie that the 2nd Mac is identical in configuration/data to the first.

 

[Leon1das]

There are a lot of things that can go wrong on the boot drive other than it completely dying. So having a bootable backup could really come in handy.

Agree. Fact that BigSur on M1 can be reinstalled only with an active internet connection (even if installed from USB key) makes bootable backups super useful.

Without bootable backups - best next thing is having installed copy of BigSur on external SSD. If you also keep TimeMachine on the same ext drive (just different partition) you also have bulletproof system which can be activated if the main drive is corrupted.

 

[Fishrrman]

Here's an example of how a bootable cloned backup can be VERY useful.

My sister has a 2010 white MacBook. Still works well enough for her.

Several years ago:
I installed an SSD inside to replace the HDD.
I regularly used CCC to maintain a cloned backup on an external HDD.

A few years later:
One day, I had the MacBook on to do some maintenance while she was at work.
Don't know what happened, but the MB suddenly froze.
Tried to reboot -- nothing.
The internal SSD seemed completely dead... just "went dark".

I rebooted from the cloned backup, and disk utility showed "nothing at all" where the SSD was supposed to be.

So...
I had a spare SSD around.
I opened up the MB, swapped the dead SSD for a live one.
Then, rebooted from the cloned backup.
Initialized the SSD and used CCC to "re-clone" the cloned backup back to the new internal SSD.
After which, the MB booted up and looked "as it had looked before".

So, when the sister got home, she just picked it up and used it.

No other "course of repair" could have been easier.

Now, with an m-series Mac, if the internal drive fails, you might as well just throw the Mac away.
It won't be bootable from another drive, and the only way to "repair" it will be to replace the entire motherboard.
Easy enough to do on a cheap Mac, but what about that $4500 maxed-out MacBook Pro that a lot of users are going to buy (and boast about)?
Or one of the upcoming m-series Mac Pro's?

 

[Mike Boreham]

Here's an example of how a bootable cloned backup can be VERY useful.

My sister has a 2010 white MacBook. Still works well enough for her.

Several years ago:
I installed an SSD inside to replace the HDD.
I regularly used CCC to maintain a cloned backup on an external HDD.

A few years later:
One day, I had the MacBook on to do some maintenance while she was at work.
Don't know what happened, but the MB suddenly froze.
Tried to reboot -- nothing.
The internal SSD seemed completely dead... just "went dark".

I rebooted from the cloned backup, and disk utility showed "nothing at all" where the SSD was supposed to be.

So...
I had a spare SSD around.
I opened up the MB, swapped the dead SSD for a live one.
Then, rebooted from the cloned backup.
Initialized the SSD and used CCC to "re-clone" the cloned backup back to the new internal SSD.
After which, the MB booted up and looked "as it had looked before".

So, when the sister got home, she just picked it up and used it.

No other "course of repair" could have been easier.

Now, with an m-series Mac, if the internal drive fails, you might as well just throw the Mac away.
It won't be bootable from another drive, and the only way to "repair" it will be to replace the entire motherboard.
Easy enough to do on a cheap Mac, but what about that $4500 maxed-out MacBook Pro that a lot of users are going to buy (and boast about)?
Or one of the upcoming m-series Mac Pro's?

Some of that went out of the window long before M1 Macs, but M1 Macs look like they are taking it a step further. You could write the same story about many things in life today....."I used to be able to ------", especially in context of cars, but not many of us would wind the clock back.

 

[skypickle]

I know this thread is about bootable backups, but I am interested in being able to revert to earlier versions of the macOS. I tried using time machine but it would not restore the OS. Which software will make the an image of an m1 mac on an external drive ? Wouldn't I need to boot from a usb key or some bootable image to allow the image to be restored to the m1 drive?

 

[Apple_Robert]

I know this thread is about bootable backups, but I am interested in being able to revert to earlier versions of the macOS. I tried using time machine but it would not restore the OS. Which software will make the an image of an m1 mac on an external drive ? Wouldn't I need to boot from a usb key or some bootable image to allow the image to be restored to the m1 drive?

with M1 and Time Machine, there is no using Time Machine to go back in time with a different OS like you were used to. You will need to either use the Configurator 2 app if you have spare Mac, or create an install USB disc etc.

 

[Mike Boreham]

with M1 and Time Machine, there is no using Time Machine to go back in time with a different OS like you were used to. You will need to either ruse the Configurator 2 app if you have s are Mac, or create an install USB disc etc.

Indeed and even if you use Configurator and bootable install disks you won't be able to run an M1 Mac on anything earlier than Big Sur.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Indeed and even if you use Configurator and bootable install disks you won't be able to run an M1 Mac on anything earlier than Big Sur.

Speaking of the M1, I am eager to see what the new OS will be at WWDC.

 

[skypickle]

with M1 and Time Machine, there is no using Time Machine to go back in time with a different OS like you were used to. You will need to either use the Configurator 2 app if you have s are Mac, or create an install USB disc etc.

Thank you all for your replies. But suppose I am running 11.2.3 and I want to upgrade to 11.4 but have the ability to go back to 11.2.3. I can see why a bootable backup would be desirable. From what I've read , I should
1)get an external thunderbolt 3 drive (OWC Envoy Express Thunderbolt 3 Bus-Powered Enclosure for M.2 NVMe SSD with a samsung or crucial name),
2)format it with APFS,
3)back up documents and data using CCC, and finally
4)install big sur from a downloaded installer file from the app store.

This should provide a bootable external backup that I can use by holding option key during boot?

 

[Apple_Robert]

Thank you all for your replies. But suppose I am running 11.2.3 and I want to upgrade to 11.4 but have the ability to go back to 11.2.3. I can see why a bootable backup would be desirable. From what I've read , I should
1)get an external thunderbolt 3 drive (OWC Envoy Express Thunderbolt 3 Bus-Powered Enclosure for M.2 NVMe SSD with a samsung or crucial name),
2)format it with APFS,
3)back up documents and data using CCC, and finally
4)install big sur from a downloaded installer file from the app store.

This should provide a bootable external backup that I can use by holding option key during boot?

It should. I say should because it may not work every time. I was able to make a bootable BS drive from a T5 but, I haven't tested it in a real world setting as of yet.

 

[Mike Boreham]

Thank you all for your replies. But suppose I am running 11.2.3 and I want to upgrade to 11.4 but have the ability to go back to 11.2.3. I can see why a bootable backup would be desirable. From what I've read , I should
1)get an external thunderbolt 3 drive (OWC Envoy Express Thunderbolt 3 Bus-Powered Enclosure for M.2 NVMe SSD with a samsung or crucial name),
2)format it with APFS,
3)back up documents and data using CCC, and finally
4)install big sur from a downloaded installer file from the app store.

This should provide a bootable external backup that I can use by holding option key during boot?

The other thing we have recently learned from This article is that if the external is to have an older macOS version than the internal then you need Reduced Security in the Startup Security settings. Reduced Security is not needed if the external has same or more recent version. I have verified this.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Carbon Copy Cloner version 6 has been officially released. If you own version 5, you can upgrade for $20.

 

[skypickle]

So I got a crucial nvme and the owc name express. Formatted to APFS and loaded Big Sur onto it. Rebooted holding down option key did not show it. Tried to select it as a startup disk in the pref pane and got this error:

help?

 

[Apple_Robert]

So I got a crucial nvme and the owc name express. Formatted to APFS and loaded Big Sur onto it. Rebooted holding down option key did not show it. Tried to select it as a startup disk in the pref pane and got this error:
View attachment 1780922

help?

Bootable drives have been hit and miss on the M1. Even a drive that works today may end up refusing to work tomorrow.

 

[neilw]

Bootable drives have been hit and miss on the M1. Even a drive that works today may end up refusing to work tomorrow.

Based on Mike Bombich's writings on the topic, I have given up on a bootable backup for now. Doesn't seem worth the trouble. Using CCC6.

Maybe at some point in the future it will become more reliable, and I'll reconsider.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Based on Mike Bombich's writings on the topic, I have given up on a bootable backup for now. Doesn't seem worth the trouble. Using CCC6.

Maybe at some point in the future it will become more reliable, and I'll reconsider.

While some fellow members still see value in it with the M1, I don't think it is really practical for day to day considerations, especially with it being dependent on legacy control parameters. For some, old habits may be hard to give up. I think as long as one has user files backed up in several places and a USB / external drive installer handy in case internet is not available, one could get back up and running fairly quickly.

I decided life is too short to spend beta testing everything / trying to make a bootable work in every instance.

I went as far as getting a second and third laptop in case I had big problems with the M1 and had to send it off to Apple. I would still be able to get work done and visit MR. lol

 

[skypickle]

I need to be able to boot older OSes. My experience with macOS is that an update can trash whole swaths of applications rendering them flawed. Especially when doing development, having an older OS to test applications is useful. Anyway, I realized what I did wrong.

I was impatient.

I reformatted the drive and reinstalled Big Sur. I waited for the the install to complete. There were three big pauses and the first time around I thought the process was done when it was not.
During the initial install, when it finishes it asks you to reboot. You must say yes and wait (I tried rebooting manually so I borked the install) When the system finally finishes up, the screen goes dark gray(not back).
It hangs out here for awhile and then reboots. The progress bar is slow but when it completes, again the screen goes dark grey.
Again it reboots, the progress bar moves along a little more quickly, but still slower than normal. Halfwaythrough, the screen blanks. and then it comes back. The system reboots a third time.

Now the new config screens are presented-localization, assisted features, password. appleID, etc.
Now the external drive works.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I need to be able to boot older OSes. My experience with macOS is that an update can trash whole swaths of applications rendering them flawed. Especially when doing development, having an older OS to test applications is useful. Anyway, I realized what I did wrong.

I was impatient.

I reformatted the drive and reinstalled Big Sur. I waited for the the install to complete. There were three big pauses and the first time around I thought the process was done when it was not.
During the initial install, when it finishes it asks you to reboot. You must say yes and wait (I tried rebooting manually so I borked the install) When the system finally finishes up, the screen goes dark gray(not back).
It hangs out here for awhile and then reboots. The progress bar is slow but when it completes, again the screen goes dark grey.
Again it reboots, the progress bar moves along a little more quickly, but still slower than normal. Halfwaythrough, the screen blanks. and then it comes back. The system reboots a third time.

Now the new config screens are presented-localization, assisted features, password. appleID, etc.
Now the external drive works.

Glad you got it figured out. Many people on the forum over the years have made that same mistake. It happens to the best of us at times.

 

[Leon1das]

I think as long as one has user files backed up in several places and a USB / external drive installer handy in case internet is not available, one could get back up and running fairly quickly.

Sadly, no. Even with USB installer - you cant reinstall BigSur on M1 without internet.

I wrote on this already in one of my posts, at the time tested with BS 11.2.2. While installing (from offline installer) M1 Mac still needs to access the internet - otherwise installation stops in recovery after 3-4 minutes.

If you do online installation in Recovery: M1 Mac pulls 12Gb newest OS from Apple servers and then installs it.

If you do offline installation in Recovery: M1 Mac starts installing offline installer, but uses internet to check if there is newer OS available - in which case it downloads its full installer too and puts it on the Data partition (occupying 14Gb extra space on disk). This way - first time you reboot - it announces that updates are available and can be installed.

My issue here: Imagine going for a longer offline trip (flight) where your main OS gets corrupted or simply erased (as "Erase Mac" option is possible from Recovery with no password restrictions to anyone - also wrote on it)....
One would have soft brick untill getting access to internet - of substantial 12 Gb....

Thats what makes bootable external MacOS BS so handy.

Happy to be corrected if this changed after 11.2.2, as that version is still my daily driver.