You assume then that the utilization and charging patterns and natural battery degradation are all linear? As an engineer, I would challenge this answer as a really precise prediction.
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iPad Pro M1 iPad Pros- Still No Optimized Charging?
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You assume then that the utilization and charging patterns and natural battery degradation are all linear? As an engineer, I would challenge this answer as a really precise prediction.
With the same use there would be no difference between your seeing 102% or 105% because it would have the same degradation from new. It is impossible to have greater than 100% health.
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Why do you insist with this "impossible...100%" when I said clearly that the design capacity is a nominal (read: artificial) level that Apple sets below the effective capacity, which is the one that is measured...
True, degradation is definitely not linear, and battery capacity degrades faster over time, especially past certain thresholds. This does not mean that the other factors (high voltage and even worse too low voltage) do not accelerate the process, in addition to heat.
Exactly. Why a data collection over a 1-3 month period will in no way give you a precise prediction.
Ofcourse when those variables change on a timescale then the calculation changes also. But we would still have a really precise current prediction on the battery life expectancy. Li-ion battery tech is incredibly well known. It would not be a difficult calculation at all.
For example, We have now a mass produced M1 chip on the market that contains 16 billion transistors! Thats really incredible and mathematically/physically a far more difficult task than calculating some dumb battery life expectation. IMO
It's very hard to be precise over short periods of time with battery health. Even with battery voltage constant, which in itself is not realistic with a mobile device like an iPad, there are too many factors impacting the other big variable, heat.
The problem remains that lithium battery degradation is non-linear and life prediction is anything but precise. It is a difficult calculation - read the literature on it:
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1149/2.1271915jes
https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlehtml/2021/cp/d1cp00359c
https://www.researchgate.net/figure...on rate of lithium,, battery aging tests (Fig.
I know it is a non-linear degradation but I still refuse to believe that Apple is uncapable of calculating that. For example on the first Toyotas mass-produced Electric vehicle BZ4X:
”Toyota has guaranteed that the 71.4kWh lithium-ion battery unit will retain at least 70% of its capacity for up to 10 years or one million kilometers (620,000 miles) driven (while most manufacturers offer 8 years and 100-150,000 miles).”
Toyota’s first all-electric car boasts ten-year battery warranty
Toyota has announced the launch of it all-electric mid-size SUV, the Toyota bZ4X, which goes up to 317 miles on
www.whichev.net
How can Toyota make their quarantee and predictions up to ten (10) years or million km? And being a Toyota I bet they are pretty generous with those predictions. Think about the complexity of the conditions those batteries have to work with 150kW(!) fast-charging capability alone? Not to even mention the weather conditions and different driving habits.
I simply refuse to believe that making algorithms that predicts an iPad or iPhone battery life is that hard compared to many other things.
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I know it is a non-linear degradation but I still refuse to believe that Apple is uncapable of calculating that. For example on the first Toyotas mass-produced Electric vehicle BZ4X:
”Toyota has guaranteed that the 71.4kWh lithium-ion battery unit will retain at least 70% of its capacity for up to 10 years or one million kilometers (620,000 miles) driven (while most manufacturers offer 8 years and 100-150,000 miles).”
Toyota’s first all-electric car boasts ten-year battery warranty
Toyota has announced the launch of it all-electric mid-size SUV, the Toyota bZ4X, which goes up to 317 miles on
How can Toyota make their quarantee and predictions up to ten (10) years or million km? And being a Toyota I bet they are pretty generous with those predictions. Think about the complexity of the conditions those batteries have to work with 150kW(!) fast-charging capability alone? Not to even mention the weather conditions and different driving habits.
I simply refuse to believe that making algorithms that predicts an iPad or iPhone battery life is that hard compared to many other things.
I would hardly call Toyota's numbers a precise calculation. Why do you think Apple owes something similar? They have no need to.
Really? Thatˋs a quarantee of ten years minimum. Not just a prediction but a quarantee. Thats pretty f#####g precise!
That quarantee is also based on a calculations which are far more complex than any iPad would ever require. And this is just a one example.
It's probably the opposite. Much higher battery capacities should allow for a greater margin of error.
Toyota doesn't have to worry much about the weight either whereas it's a major concern for the iPad. Customers are already criticizing the 10-hr battery life. If they limit "full" capacity to 80% instead of 100%, ergo probably more or less 8 hrs battery life, that would make complaints from even worse.
That said, a user-customizable optimized charging mode would be appreciated. On my ThinkPad (Lenovo Vantage), I have it set to the default 75-80%.
I do sorta optimized charging by way of Shortcuts/Automation + Smart Plugs.
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Sorry, I was wrong, itˋs not a 70%. In reality its closer to 90%.
”Toyota developed the 2023 bZ4X battery to retain 90% of its original life. The 70% is the target number, but the automaker thinks 90% is attainable.”
The 2023 Toyota bZ4X Electric SUV Might Have a Ridiculous Warranty
When the 2023 Toyota bZ4X was announced, the automaker said it wants 90% battery capacity over 10 years. What will the warranty be like? Could it be unlimited?
www.motorbiscuit.com
That just makes their precision on calculations even more incredible.
What marging errors are you really talking about?
”Toyota developed the 2023 bZ4X battery to retain 90% of its original life. The 70% is the target number, but the automaker thinks 90% is attainable.”
Theres no ”marging errors” on 10 years/90% quarantee!
Sorry, I was wrong, itˋs not a 70%. In reality its closer to 90%.
”Toyota developed the 2023 bZ4X battery to retain 90% of its original life. The 70% is the target number, but the automaker thinks 90% is attainable.”
The 2023 Toyota bZ4X Electric SUV Might Have a Ridiculous Warranty
When the 2023 Toyota bZ4X was announced, the automaker said it wants 90% battery capacity over 10 years. What will the warranty be like? Could it be unlimited?
That just makes their precision on calculations even more incredible.
What exactly is it that you want Apple to provide you?
Toyota thinks 90% is achievable but they’re only guaranteeing 70% for 10 years. Seems to me they’re allowing for a pretty wide margin of error.
Also, that Toyota electric vehicle has a 70+ KWh battery. The largest iPad battery is just like 0.06% of that. The full battery capacity of the iPad is pretty much just a rounding error on Toyota’s calculations.
"Customers have to keep up with scheduled maintenance to ensure the battery operates at optimal levels." Wonder what that would be for an iPad.
If you carefully rethink about it, their promise is very impressive.
Toyota is one of those very few companies left in the whole world that gives us this kind of promise and hope.
I deeply respect them for doing so in this day and age.
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I looked up battery degradation on electric vehicles and it seems to me Toyota’s promise is better than other EVs but not by much in terms of years. The increase in mileage is quite notable, though.
Overview of EV Batteries | GreenCars
An electric battery is a device that stores chemical energy that is converted into electricity. Our team has provided this info so you can learn more.
greencars.com
Apple guarantees iPads to retain 80% for 1 year and 1000 cycles.
I have a 2016 iPad Pro 9.7 at 87% after 494 cycles and 2017 iPad Pro 10.5 at 84% after 459 battery cycles. Both of these were kinda abused: 10+ hours usage per day for 1-2 years with frequent drain to 0% (usually during marathon reading sessions). Also, SoCal summers with occasionally broken air conditioner. I can still squeeze 6-8 hours onscreen time from these depending on display brightness and type of usage.
Mind, at 1% per year, that Toyota would lose ~0.7 KWh/year (it’s not going to be linear but let’s go with that for simplicity’s sake). That’s the equivalent of ~20 iPad Pro 11”.
On mileage, Toyotas minimum quarantee is 620% better than average and 413% better than even Tesla. Thatˋs far more than just quite notable increase.
That is inspirational
To be a little more precise, they say exactly:
”Your battery is designed to retain up to 80% of its original capacity at 1000 complete charge cycles.”
Batteries - Service and Recycling
Learn about battery service and recycling for Apple devices. All rechargeable batteries need to be serviced eventually.
www.apple.com
Firstly, I am a little confused about what that phrase even means? To me it could mean just about anything. But if I would have to guess it could be ”80% or above capacity, under 1000 complete cycles, in less than a year”. Could you open up that phrase if you happen to know?
Secondly, is that kind of warranty something they can truly be a proud of? Or should they happily give a longer warranty if they really can stand behind their product?
On a flagship products, only a 1 year nominal warranty is…awfull.
On mileage, Toyotas minimum quarantee is 620% better than average and 413% better than even Tesla. Thatˋs far more than just quite notable increase.
That is inspirational
To be a little more precise, they say exactly:
”Your battery is designed to retain up to 80% of its original capacity at 1000 complete charge cycles.”
Batteries - Service and Recycling
Learn about battery service and recycling for Apple devices. All rechargeable batteries need to be serviced eventually.www.apple.com
Firstly, I am a little confused about what that phrase even means? To me it could mean just about anything. But if I would have to guess it could be ”80% or above capacity, under 1000 complete cycles, in less than a year”. Could you open up that phrase if you happen to know?
Secondly, is that kind of warranty something they can truly be a proud of? Or should they happily give a longer warranty if they really can stand behind their product?
On a flagship products, only a 1 year nominal warranty is…awfull.
Samsung tablets - 1 year warranty
Canon cameras - 1 year warranty
Nikon cameras - 1 year warranty
Yeah, they're all awful ...