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mactinkerlover

macrumors regular
Sep 20, 2020
173
113
You won't have security updates for eleven years, unfortunately.
Unfortunately, that is true. These machines will be made obsolete by the discontinuation of software support in the next few years. I'm keeping my M1 Max until I can afford more performance and the jump is big enough to justify it, I need it, or until software support runs out in the next few years.

Also, I have a feeling that patches will not work on apple silicon. So there will probably be no running unsupported OS on apple silicon like there was/is with older intel machines.
 

gadgetfreaky

macrumors 65816
Oct 28, 2007
1,402
531
I'm in the same boat as others in the M1 Pro camp. An M3 Pro appears to be a mix bag performance wise. When will we get review benchmarks?
 

Beau10

macrumors 65816
Apr 6, 2008
1,406
732
US based digital nomad
True, but MacBooks won't suddenly stop working after updates run out.

We have a 16" M1 Max but still keep our 2015 rMBP 13 around as an extra laptop for school work and the battery life is still surprisingly good for its age.

Of course it doesn't suddenly turn into a pumpkin. That said, one unsupported critical security update later, it may no longer be a good idea to have that device exposed to the internet.
 

Allen_Wentz

macrumors 68040
Dec 3, 2016
3,338
3,779
USA
wait for benchmarks. Also, depends on what your're doing. Are you editing tons of videos on Final cut? If you are then you shouldn't even be looking at the base model. Also why do you need the 24 gig ram? I'd rather go for the 14 inch M3Pro base model for the same price with 18gb of ram. In other words, I'd take the better cpu/gpu with 18gb than worse CPU/gpu with 24gb of ram. You're not getting more future proof with extra 6gb of ram.
Personally I consider 18 or 24 GB poor 4-6 year life cylcle planning for most here (too low). However 24 GB is 1/3 more RAM than 18, which does provide significantly "... more future proof with extra 6gb of ram."

You say you would "I'd take the better cpu/gpu with 18gb than worse CPU/gpu with 24gb of ram" but I strongly disagree. My 2016 MBP still drives apps reasonably except that it is badly lamed by having only 16 GB RAM. RAM limited, not CPU/GPU limited. At those low RAM levels the 1/3 more GB of 24 GB is hella preferable.

I replaced the 2016 MBP with an M2 MBP Max with 96 GB RAM, and that box now effortlessly does the heavy desktop lifting. I still use the 2016 box for simple email and browsing.
 
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Allen_Wentz

macrumors 68040
Dec 3, 2016
3,338
3,779
USA
I don’t “need” M3, but I need 4TB or even 8TB internal storage. That costs a fortune, of which I have to carefully save up for. By the time I save enough, I might be able to get M5 or sth. 1TB internal storage is so uncomfortable for me to use, when I don’t even have a single place to store my actual size photo library.
Talk to the folks at OWC. They will probably have good less expensive external storage solutions that wrok.
 

Beau10

macrumors 65816
Apr 6, 2008
1,406
732
US based digital nomad
Personally I consider 18 or 24 GB poor 4-6 year life cylcle planning for most here (too low)

For most? No one purchasing an 18gb machine that is fine for their purposes today will be left in the dust in 6 years unless their needs materially change. And it will continue to be rare for those purchasing 8gb machines.

RAM needs really haven't gone up for years now for the majority of use cases.

- Browsers like Chrome and esp. Safari have gotten more efficient. And it's hard to make webpages even more showy than they are. Maybe if WASM really takes off like wildfire? Doesn't seem to be the case it will.
- Things like working w/ PDF and Word processing is basically the same.
- VM/container needs have flatlined - the whole hosting a microservices architecture locally has been a trend for many years now, if you need it, you need it. If anything, the trend is to revert to monoliths or fuller fat services. Docker on MacOS is much more efficient now.

If you're doing a heavy amount of video production or photo editing, yes, more RAM than you need right now may be beneficial as megapixel and frame counts rise.

If you're a dev getting into machine learning, having more RAM allows you to run or train larger models. But even the latest Max isn't competition for an older A100 that can be rented in the cloud for a couple bucks an hour.

If AAA gaming becomes more a thing but you probably need a Max which has more than any high end video card... but it's still not going to compete with even a 4070.

This is part of the reason why we still see Apple use 8gb as the base for what 5-6 years at least now. It's definitely not ideal and it's nuts they didn't bump it to 12gb, but it's also not going to lead to a situation where the machine will suddenly be unusable in 3 years or whatnot.

If anything the situation is much better with Apple silicon w/ high bandwidth buses and fast SSDs so paging is actually reasonable:

"Unless you are configuring your MacBook Pro with the M1 Max chip, which starts with 32GB of memory, you likely do not need the $400 add-on. In real-world tests, the 32GB MacBook Pro is not significantly outperforming the 16GB model, even during intense workflows."

 
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Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
16,263
11,764
Talk to the folks at OWC. They will probably have good less expensive external storage solutions that wrok.
External storage via port DOES NOT WORK if such external storage needs to be permanently attached to the Mac, and Mac needs to move elsewhere, even temporarily. I tried, and it failed horribly Short of permanent data loss.
 

SnoFlo

macrumors regular
Feb 5, 2010
221
193
External storage via port DOES NOT WORK if such external storage needs to be permanently attached to the Mac, and Mac needs to move elsewhere, even temporarily. I tried, and it failed horribly Short of permanent data loss.
I managed to cheat a bit and added an extra 1TB of storage with a micro-SD card slotted into the SD card slot with this adapter:

Flush card adapter. The adapter sits flush to the side of the laptop, so you don't even know it's there.

Of course, the micro-SD card isn't going to be very fast. 2TB micro-SD cards were supposed to have shown up by now, but I haven't seen any sign of them.

** Edit ** Amazon has 2TB micro-SD cards now!
** Edit 2 ** One review reports the 2TB card to be fake. Dunno.
 
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Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
16,263
11,764
I managed to cheat a bit and added an extra 1TB of storage with a micro-SD card slotted into the SD card slot with this adapter:

Flush card adapter. The adapter sits flush to the side of the laptop, so you don't even know it's there.

Of course, the micro-SD card isn't going to be very fast. 2TB micro-SD cards were supposed to have shown up by now, but I haven't seen any sign of them.

** Edit ** Amazon has 2TB micro-SD cards now!
** Edit 2 ** One review reports the 2TB card to be fake. Dunno.
My current MacBook Pro doesn’t have SD card slot. Besides, those extra storage are destined for cloud storage, music library or photo library, all of which necessitates lots of read and write. I have no faith of those flash chips to last very long.
 
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Allen_Wentz

macrumors 68040
Dec 3, 2016
3,338
3,779
USA
Personally I consider 18 or 24 GB poor 4-6 year life cylcle planning for most here (too low). However 24 GB is 1/3 more RAM than 18, which does provide significantly "... more future proof with extra 6gb of ram."
For most? No one purchasing an 18gb machine that is fine for their purposes today will be left in the dust in 6 years unless their needs materially change. And it will continue to be rare for those purchasing 8gb machines.

RAM needs really haven't gone up for years now for the majority of use cases.

- Browsers like Chrome and esp. Safari have gotten more efficient. And it's hard to make webpages even more showy than they are. Maybe if WASM really takes off like wildfire? Doesn't seem to be the case it will.
- Things like working w/ PDF and Word processing is basically the same.
- VM/container needs have flatlined - the whole hosting a microservices architecture locally has been a trend for many years now, if you need it, you need it. If anything, the trend is to revert to monoliths or fuller fat services. Docker on MacOS is much more efficient now.

If you're doing a heavy amount of video production or photo editing, yes, more RAM than you need right now may be beneficial as megapixel and frame counts rise.

If you're a dev getting into machine learning, having more RAM allows you to run or train larger models. But even the latest Max isn't competition for an older A100 that can be rented in the cloud for a couple bucks an hour.

If AAA gaming becomes more a thing but you probably need a Max which has more than any high end video card... but it's still not going to compete with even a 4070.

This is part of the reason why we still see Apple use 8gb as the base for what 5-6 years at least now. It's definitely not ideal and it's nuts they didn't bump it to 12gb, but it's also not going to lead to a situation where the machine will suddenly be unusable in 3 years or whatnot.

If anything the situation is much better with Apple silicon w/ high bandwidth buses and fast SSDs so paging is actually reasonable:

"Unless you are configuring your MacBook Pro with the M1 Max chip, which starts with 32GB of memory, you likely do not need the $400 add-on. In real-world tests, the 32GB MacBook Pro is not significantly outperforming the 16GB model, even during intense workflows."

Good comments, but my expectation is that RAM utilization by OS/apps will continue to increase - just like it has for 40 years, nonstop. Apple did not jump from 16 GB available in my 2016 MBP to the 96 GB I put in my M2 MBP and now up to 128 GB available in less than a year because they expect RAM usage to stay the same. I base my RAM needs forecast on experience, but Apple literally has all the inside info.

IMO the low end and short life cycles justify 16-24 GB RAM levels. However higher end or longer planned life cycles should be building in higher amounts of UMA RAM.

It is not that boxes won't run OK on less RAM; the Mac OS makes pretty much anything work, as many point out (e.g. "I ran a zillion PS layers..."). IMO we should optimize our computer builds, not just have them work.

The point is that we buy $2k-$4k computers to compute with, and RAM (all of us should study up on how Apple's Unified Memory Architecture RAM works) is a key part of optimizing that computing operation. Not planning RAM properly for the full life cycle of the box is hamstringing that box just like putting low grade tires on a race car.
 

Allen_Wentz

macrumors 68040
Dec 3, 2016
3,338
3,779
USA
External storage via port DOES NOT WORK if such external storage needs to be permanently attached to the Mac, and Mac needs to move elsewhere, even temporarily. I tried, and it failed horribly Short of permanent data loss.
I fully agree. If one needs more than fully mobile 5-6 TB (an 8 TB drive maintained less than 80% full) then it is necessary to buy up to Apple's pricey 8TB SSD. Ouch.

I found however that modern portable external SSDs are tiny and that I did not need to have all that much pricey SSD space actually on board the MBP; 2 TB was fine for me. A couple of fast TB drives can live in the laptop case as necessary.
 

whitby

Contributor
Dec 13, 2007
397
402
Austin, TX
Staying put with my 16” M1 Max with 64GB and 4TB SSD given the appalling trade in values. But I might upgrade my 15” M2 MBA to the new M3 14” MBPro as the trade in is not too bad (still horrible but possibly I can live with it).
 
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nhbone

macrumors newbie
Nov 5, 2017
4
5
Florida
I love my 16" MBP with 16GB RAM and can't believe it performs so well with that much RAM. Even so, my laptop has a fair trade price for me, and that offset gets me into the 16" MBP M3 Max. Much of my day is spent in FCP and Photoshop, and the value proposition justifies the jump. I love the space gray color, but that's not why I'm upgrading. Right? No. It can't be why. Definitely not drawn in by the color. No. ... dammit.
 
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loby

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2010
1,882
1,514
16" M1 Max here; absolutely staying put. I'm still not getting over how ridiculously good this machine performs! (Heavy Photoshop, Logic Pro, Baldur's Gate 3, etc. for me.)
Same, good machine, but looking at the price after just two years, it would be a hard on the wallet upgrade.

Yes, the M3 is 2.5 times faster and the new GPUs makes my eyes water (being a content video creator), but putting out another $5,000 again since 2021 is a hard pill to swallow.

Came from an i9 32GB RAM 1TB SSD MacBook Pro 2018 and I still use it for some tasks. Still...very capable Mac, but of course the M1 runs circles around it.

But if I never bought a M1 MacBook Pro 2021, M1 Mini or M2 MacBook Air (a few weeks ago), then YES Upgrade.

I am Mac'd out for awhile.. LOL
 
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loby

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2010
1,882
1,514
My M1 Macbook Pro can do everything I need it to, if I'm going to upgrade it would have to be for a Mac Studio, as I don't really need a laptop, I just got it before everything else was released
Was in the same situation. Need more power for projects doing video editing and at the time there was no Mac Studio. Got the M1 MacBook Pro and I spit my coffee out the first time (not on the MacBook Pro) when I did not have to wait for encoding or rendering on the first project. Very, VERY happy with my M1 MacBook Pro (still).

Then...Mac Studio came out (surprise)...My left eye started to twitch....

M3 Mac Studio....need to start to save and dream up an excuse to tell my wife WHY I need it when it eventually is released...next year...
 
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platinumaqua

macrumors 6502
Oct 11, 2021
482
740
Staying with my current 2021 MBP 14" base chip/1TB/32GB.
I didn't even think my current MBP was worth the asking price of ~$2600 and the M3 cost the same to get the equivalent in RAM and SSD. So staying until something breaks, then I'm probably switching to a Windows laptop.
 
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phoenixbt

macrumors member
Sep 26, 2015
48
17
I’m on the fence too. I have a 16” M1 Max 4tb/64gb and was thinking of doing a 128gb m3 max, but the price jump is a lot to get that. Still considering an m3 max 64gb in space black, but I keep going back and forth on it. Curious to see the benchmarks
 
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Giant_enemy_crab

macrumors member
Nov 21, 2019
36
59
MBPs seem to be depreciating at around 1K per year. So for me, I rather just pay the 2K upgrade cost (after selling my M1 Max) and get the latest MBP, then have to pay 3K in 2024 or 4K in 2025.

Basically, it costs $1K per year to have the latest and greatest MBP. For what I do, the performance gains justify that expense.
 

nhbone

macrumors newbie
Nov 5, 2017
4
5
Florida
MBPs seem to be depreciating at around 1K per year. So for me, I rather just pay the 2K upgrade cost (after selling my M1 Max) and get the latest MBP, then have to pay 3K in 2024 or 4K in 2025.

Basically, it costs $1K per year to have the latest and greatest MBP. For what I do, the performance gains justify that expense.
I'm in the same boat. For those who need the power, getting a good amount on the trade and keeping up with the newer machine is worth it. The M1 was a paradigm shift from Intel, but in the era of Apple silicon, M1 to M3 is worth it. Also, I'm pretty sure the Space Black color increases memory bandwidth, extends WiFi reception and doubles the battery capacity.
 

nquinn

macrumors 6502a
Jun 25, 2020
829
621
It's really not THAT bad to upgrade more regularly. Especially if you are smart when you buy.

If you start with a refurb (-15%) or good sales (-15%) or buy apple gift cards at target for 15% back, you can absorb about 1/2 of the depreciation.

My M1 16"/32gb/1tb cost me around $3100, but I used about $1800 worth of gift cards I think that effectively saved me like $300.
 

Misheemee

macrumors 6502
Feb 28, 2020
374
333
It's really not THAT bad to upgrade more regularly. Especially if you are smart when you buy.

If you start with a refurb (-15%) or good sales (-15%) or buy apple gift cards at target for 15% back, you can absorb about 1/2 of the depreciation.

My M1 16"/32gb/1tb cost me around $3100, but I used about $1800 worth of gift cards I think that effectively saved me like $300.

I tried to save up apple giftcards, but Apple Pay kept using them for monthly subscriptions by default (I Couldn't change this?). How did you do it?
 

reklex

macrumors regular
Oct 17, 2021
134
211
Catujal
M1 Max 16” 10 CPU/32 GPU/64GB RAM

Rendering is already fast enough for how complex my projects in vfx, light graphic design and videography get.

my workflow is running smooth between different apps.

That rendering time cut in half I’d get with a base M3 Max is time I can use to learn a new skill or do errands in the house.

I’ll consider upgrading this machine if it dies on me and until that happens i’ll just keep replacing the battery.
 
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