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mattyjoe

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 12, 2020
20
107
Los Angeles, CA
From the evidence I've seen, I believe firmly that people are vastly overhyping the effects of the throttling in the M2 MacBook Air.

The YouTube review I've seen so far with the most thorough benchmarks is Dave2D's, and he went so far as to say that "if you're someone that wants a very powerful system and you're hoping that something super thin and super light could handle it, unfortunately, I would say that it can't." He also spends a good deal of time throughout the rest of the video highlighting the effects of the throttling as he saw them.

That's a rather extreme conclusion to make, from what I'm seeing. I will use his own graphs to demonstrate.

Screen_Shot_2022-07-14_at_1.38.53_PM.png


This is Dave's graph of the effects of throttling on the Cinebench score, comparing the M2 MBA to the M2 MBP (which has a fan). There are some important things to note here.

I calculated that a single run on the M2 would last anywhere from 1.5 to 2 minutes, based on its overall score. So 10 consecutive runs would take about 15-20 minutes. Remember, throttling is related to temperature over time, and the effects of it go up as your time under sustained load increases.

Cinebench pegs the CPU at 99-100% utilization on all cores for the duration of the test. So we're talking 15-20 minutes of that. If you've spent any time doing "Pro" workflows, and monitored your system usage, you would know that this amount of load, for that duration, is extremely rare. Even in a video editor, you rarely have a render that would peg the CPU to that degree, for that amount of time. You do also have the GPU cores to consider in that instance, but many renders for many users also would not take 15-20 minutes to complete. At the highest end, sure, with very complex timelines with hefty codecs. But the majority of users who do video work who would buy this machine? No.

On top of that, I think Dave is over-estimating the impact of the throttling. I calculated that on his x axis, each interval represents 562.5 points. So if you look carefully, you see that after 10 consecutive runs, the M2 MBA has dropped about 1125 points.

Screen_Shot_2022-07-22_at_12.39.41_PM.png


A drop of 1125 points puts it at about the same performance as M1's maximum performance, and this occurs after 15-20 minutes straight of 100% CPU load. 8783 to 7658.

So if you somehow have a workload that is pegging the CPU at 100%, or a combination of GPU + CPU that equals the same thermal output, for 15-20 minutes STRAIGHT, your performance STILL only drops to about the equivalent of M1's maximum performance. 8783 vs. 7743.

For the vast majority of users, their workloads will stay well within the zone where they are reaping the benefits of M2's performance increase. Even many sustained loads do not load up as much as Cinebench does. And for users who manage to push to the throttling point, their performance only goes down to about the performance of M1. Pushing past that point will be even rarer still.

So, as is always the case with throttling, the debate is not "Does the machine throttle or not?", it's "How much of an impact does throttling have?"

So far, I am not seeing any evidence that suggests that M2 MacBook Air users will have a poor experience. I think the effects of this throttling are far less than how it's being described. I also believe Apple would have weighed all of this themselves when testing this machine and determining how it would perform for its expected user base. For most users, it will still exceed their expectations, even while editing video and doing other "pro" workflows.
 
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I completely agree and it’s really frustrating that he didn’t compare the performance to the M1 MBA.

That would have clearly shown that even though the M2 MBA can’t keep up the added performance, it’s still faster than the unthrottled M1 Air.

You get sustained performance that’s always a little better than the M1 Air and burst performance that is substantially faster.

All while having a thin, light, cool, fanless laptop.

The throttling is not a flaw, but a very reasonable design decision and compromise.
 
Part of it is unreasonable expectations because Apple Silicon is so good. Can you imagine people talking about exxporting 8K video on one of the Intel Air with that crap Y series processor... Now that Apple put a super powerful processor people think then great it should be like the Mac Pro... Ummm no. The main focus is still on being light and portable as possible. They have a 14" MacBook Pro in the lineup for a reason and this isn't it. For what I do in my day to day use it doesn't even get warm. The battery life is crazy. I watched a two hour movie on it last night and didn't even bother plugging it in after. On any Intel laptop I've had it would have been plugged in for that movie.
 
I bought my M2 MBA for a thin, light, carry anywhere Mac. It's perfect for this, the best Mac I can remember since the old 11" MBA. For heavy lifting, I have a maxed out M1 Max 16" MBP. I even got the MBA in midnight and these finger print issues are almost a non-issue for me, does it show it more than a silver machine? Yes. But if your hands are even reasonably clean, I don't get finger prints on it.
 
Goes to show greed is endless.
Before M1 this kind of performance was unthinkable on any thin and light laptop. Yes part of that is because of more advanced fab processes, but I'm pretty sure that's not all. Intel and AMD did not offer and 8-core low power laptops, but today they have 8-core and 12-core chips, even though process density have not doubled at all. They do it now because that's the only way to compete with the M1.

Now it would seem that the expectation is for a thin&light laptop to do all the heavy production workloads that used to require 5cm thick 3kg workstation, which the MacBook Air somehow can do, but people are upset that it throttles from 4x faster than before, to 3.5x faster than before.
 
I'm eagerly awaiting my midnight MBA. The throttling drama is definitely silly — everyone was mindblown when the first M1s came out, they're still insanely overpowered relative to similarly-priced Intel machines, and you have to do such insane things to hit the M2 MacBook Air's ceiling. Things its target audience just won't do. I've got an M1 MacBook Air that I'm giving to my wife to replace her 2018 MacBook Proand an M1 iMac that I use as my daily work machine, so I'll get to see pretty directly what the performance differences are like (willing to bet for my day to day, it'll be unchanged).
 
The simplest solution is to recognize that YouTubers first and foremost need clicks to make money.

I use their videos to get a sense of what the products look like (especially when there are multiple colors to choose between) but by and large they are not a reliable source of technical information.
 
The simplest solution is to recognize that YouTubers first and foremost need clicks to make money.

I use their videos to get a sense of what the products look like (especially when there are multiple colors to choose between) but by and large they are not a reliable source of technical information.
Of course. But you very quickly see their conclusions spread to people looking to buy these products. I've been following tech to have seen this happen again and again. My goal is simply to try to help prospective buyers understand the truth.
 
The Mac Book Air is basic device for simple web browsing and simple thing like that! It's for old and young kids and not for audio/video production! I still don't understand some of web so-called tech writers can't seem to understand that fact is making me not to trust them anymore!
It can edit 4K video just fine. It's a more capable editing rig than most MacBook Pros before 2019.
 
The Mac Book Air is basic device for simple web browsing and simple thing like that! It's for old and young kids and not for audio/video production! I still don't understand some of web so-called tech writers can't seem to understand that fact is making me not to trust them anymore!

And professionals who have never needed (and will never need) to edit 20 minutes of (or any) video. I guarantee that there are way more of us in the world than there are YouTube-ers 🙄🙄

Can we please cut it out with the “for kids and grandmas” BS? Most computer users in the world (including most “technical” computer users) will be perfectly fine in—if not amazingly well-equipped for—their quite professional jobs with the M2 MBA.
 
The Mac Book Air is basic device for simple web browsing and simple thing like that! It's for old and young kids and not for audio/video production! I still don't understand some of web so-called tech writers can't seem to understand that fact is making me not to trust them anymore!
Your definition is far too narrow. The MacBook Air M2 is more than a basic device. It's a modern laptop capable of handling the needs of most people. This is my work computer. I use it for not only emails and browsing, but for a lot of work in Adobe Acrobat Pro (editing and OCR functions), Adobe Photoshop for heavy image editing, all the Office apps, video conferencing (Zoom & Teams), Music, Slack, and more - often with tons of those running in parallel at the same time. I upgraded to 16GB RAM, and 512GB SSD, and I think this computer will last me a very long time.
 
Your definition is far too narrow. The MacBook Air M2 is more than a basic device. It's a modern laptop capable of handling the needs of most people. This is my work computer. I use it for not only emails and browsing, but for a lot of work in Adobe Acrobat Pro (editing and OCR functions), Adobe Photoshop for heavy image editing, all the Office apps, video conferencing (Zoom & Teams), Music, Slack, and more - often with tons of those running in parallel at the same time. I upgraded to 16GB RAM, and 512GB SSD, and I think this computer will last me a very long time.
I think this gets to the crux of the issue. For A LOT of people the MBA is going to be their main computer for years to come for tasks a lot heavier than just "basic usage." It's not a cheap computer, and thus people expect it to perform well.

The M1 SOC in the OG Apple Silicon MBA was revolutionary. The throttling was accepted as it was clear they just stuck the new chip in the old chassis, removed the fan, and got great performance.

So why are people loosing their **** over the M2 (MBA)?
1. The reduction (by half) of the storage performance on the base, 256GB model (that will inevitably sell the most,) that can result in an extreme reduction in performance (far more than CPU/GPU throttling) when the machine has to page the SSD.
2. The fact that the M2 throttles a bit even in the MBP with a fan which is disappointing thermal performance compared to the M1.
3. The fact that Apple completely redesigned the MBA from the ground up and... it still throttles to a similar degree as the old design despite there being an "easy fix"

Of these problems I think #1 is by far the most serious in terms of the M2 MBA. If Apple hadn't crippled the SSD on the base model (to the point where in real world usage it can perform much worse than the 256GB M1 MBA,) I think people would be a lot more willing to let the throttling (#3) go. It doesn't help that both MBAs (M1 and M2) can be modded to have performance that either doesn't really throttle (M1) or throttles much less (M2.) Of course there are good reasons Apple doesn't build the machines like this but it does suggest that perhaps they could have done a bit more with the redesign to mitigate throttling while maintaining a fanless design

Anyway, at the end of the day, as someone who's not going to buy one of these machines for themself, but might find themselves considering (buying or recommending) one for others, I find myself in a spot I didn't think I'd be in. On the one hand, the M2 MBA is a really nice, modern design, and I'd thus have a hard time recommending the M1 MBA (without hefty discount.) On the other hand, given the problems the base M2 MBA can have when it pages out to the SSD, I'd also have a hard time recomending the base M2 MBA, especially when its more (much more in some countries) expensive.

As a product, this should have been an easy home run for Apple (in terms of sales I'm sure it still will be.) But Apple chose to pinch pennies and is being called out on it. It is what it is and I don't know why people are so salty about it. Yes its still a great machine despite the flaws... but unlike its immediate predecessor it has flaws that push people to buy-up and that BS deserves to be called out.
 
So why are people loosing their **** over the M2 (MBA)?
1. The reduction (by half) of the storage performance on the base, 256GB model (that will inevitably sell the most,) that can result in an extreme reduction in performance (far more than CPU/GPU throttling) when the machine has to page the SSD.
2. The fact that the M2 throttles a bit even in the MBP with a fan which is disappointing thermal performance compared to the M1.
3. The fact that Apple completely redesigned the MBA from the ground up and... it still throttles to a similar degree as the old design despite there being an "easy fix"
I think it's cuz of the crazy inflation we're currently in, a lot of prices have gone up like double where as people expect to pay the same amount for a brand new laptop, it's just not going to happen. They would have to increase the price to like 1500 anyway but they know that can't work so instead they decided to offer the crippled models at lower price point so it could be presented as a smaller price increase.

2. it doesn't matter because the M2 is faster under the SAME POWER consumption. the fact that it can go even faster than that by using more power, is a benefit and NOT a problem. In fact having no ability to go above your sustained thermal envelope like the M1 is wasted potential for these chassis that were designed for much higher power chips.

3. There is simply no good way to increase the thermal envelope of a fanless design, because the only ways to passively radiate more heat is with bigger surface area, or higher surface temps, which you can't have. The thermal pad mod is not a "fix", you cannot sell a product with that mod because it has the potential to get too hot on the surface. They could add a heatsink to increase thermal mass, but that could only delay the onset of throttling with no increase in sustained performance. Which benefits almost nobody but makes it heavier for everybody.
 
I think this gets to the crux of the issue. For A LOT of people the MBA is going to be their main computer for years to come for tasks a lot heavier than just "basic usage." It's not a cheap computer, and thus people expect it to perform well.

The M1 SOC in the OG Apple Silicon MBA was revolutionary. The throttling was accepted as it was clear they just stuck the new chip in the old chassis, removed the fan, and got great performance.

So why are people loosing their **** over the M2 (MBA)?
1. The reduction (by half) of the storage performance on the base, 256GB model (that will inevitably sell the most,) that can result in an extreme reduction in performance (far more than CPU/GPU throttling) when the machine has to page the SSD.
2. The fact that the M2 throttles a bit even in the MBP with a fan which is disappointing thermal performance compared to the M1.
3. The fact that Apple completely redesigned the MBA from the ground up and... it still throttles to a similar degree as the old design despite there being an "easy fix"

Of these problems I think #1 is by far the most serious in terms of the M2 MBA. If Apple hadn't crippled the SSD on the base model (to the point where in real world usage it can perform much worse than the 256GB M1 MBA,) I think people would be a lot more willing to let the throttling (#3) go. It doesn't help that both MBAs (M1 and M2) can be modded to have performance that either doesn't really throttle (M1) or throttles much less (M2.) Of course there are good reasons Apple doesn't build the machines like this but it does suggest that perhaps they could have done a bit more with the redesign to mitigate throttling while maintaining a fanless design

Anyway, at the end of the day, as someone who's not going to buy one of these machines for themself, but might find themselves considering (buying or recommending) one for others, I find myself in a spot I didn't think I'd be in. On the one hand, the M2 MBA is a really nice, modern design, and I'd thus have a hard time recommending the M1 MBA (without hefty discount.) On the other hand, given the problems the base M2 MBA can have when it pages out to the SSD, I'd also have a hard time recomending the base M2 MBA, especially when its more (much more in some countries) expensive.

As a product, this should have been an easy home run for Apple (in terms of sales I'm sure it still will be.) But Apple chose to pinch pennies and is being called out on it. It is what it is and I don't know why people are so salty about it. Yes its still a great machine despite the flaws... but unlike its immediate predecessor it has flaws that push people to buy-up and that BS deserves to be called out.
This is a sensible look. I think a lot of people are or will be fine with the new air. One thing that was concerning to me was the gpu comparison 8 core to 10core which was disappointing. There was also a comparison I saw of the M1MBA and M2MBA both 8cores when playing a game there was hardly any difference, which for me was kinda a killer as the m1 air was okish for my needs and gaming needs but the knowing that the 10core wouldn't provide me much improvement I ended up just getting a 14 inch. Unfortunate but maybe the next version will be able to provide what I need.
 
The biggest problem I see is people expecting Pro performance out of an Air.

It’s a MacBook Air for a reason! It’s lighter and smaller than a Pro. In my world, that’s the primary appeal, which is why I bought it.

Everything else is just icing on the cake. There is so much hate going around. Most of it coming from M1 Air owners. They are here to remind us that their SSD is faster in the 256 base form. Great. Congrats. Can we move on now?

I opted for 1 TB with 24 GB. Yes, I could have gotten a faster MacBook Pro 14” for that price. But guess what? - It’s not as lightweight and portable!

No regrets here preordering the new M2 Air because it’s the best looking, fastest, most portable MacBook there is when configured properly.
 
This is a sensible look. I think a lot of people are or will be fine with the new air. One thing that was concerning to me was the gpu comparison 8 core to 10core which was disappointing. There was also a comparison I saw of the M1MBA and M2MBA both 8cores when playing a game there was hardly any difference, which for me was kinda a killer as the m1 air was okish for my needs and gaming needs but the knowing that the 10core wouldn't provide me much improvement I ended up just getting a 14 inch. Unfortunate but maybe the next version will be able to provide what I need.
This is IMHO another big piece of the frustration. The M1 Air/Pro were truly revolutionary machines. They offered unparalleled performance and battery life, and they did so at a reasonable price. There was honestly nothing else like them on the market. Thus any failings they had could be excused as them being (amazingly great) first generation products.

The M2 MBA/MBP by contrast, exist in a much more well defined/developed Apple Silicon product stack. Thus any flaws are seen not as the quirks of a "first generation one of a kind product," but as a cost cutting measure to push certain people higher up the product stack.
 
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