M2 Platform Wish List and Predictions

[leman]

Apple makes all of its Mac money on the BTO upgrades. Can anyone find another $1000 laptop on the market that comes with only 8 GB of RAM?

Plenty. Look at any premium business laptop in that segment. Few examples:

- Lenovo X1 Carbon gen9 starts at $1400 for 8GB/256GB and that's for low-DPI display and entry-level CPU
- Surface laptop 4 is $999 for 8GB/256GB with a crappy AMD CPU (you pay $1499 for 16GB/512GB and mid-range Intel CPU)
- Dell XPS 13" is $1,219 for 8GB/256GB version

etc.

Apple's pricing and configurations are very competitive

P.S. Dell and Lenovo websites are utterly terrible. I feel sick.

 

[Macative]

Plenty. Look at any premium business laptop in that segment. Few examples:

- Lenovo X1 Carbon gen9 starts at $1400 for 8GB/256GB and that's for low-DPI display and entry-level CPU
- Surface laptop 4 is $999 for 8GB/256GB with a crappy AMD CPU (you pay $1499 for 16GB/512GB and mid-range Intel CPU)
- Dell XPS 13" is $1,219 for 8GB/256GB version

etc.

Apple's pricing and configurations are very competitive

P.S. Dell and Lenovo websites are utterly terrible. I feel sick.

They all have touch screens, which raises their prices considerably. Find one without.

 

[leman]

They all have touch screens, which raises their prices considerably. Find one without.

Touch screen is a standard feature in a modern premium Windows laptop. And no, it doesn't raise their price considerably — they are prices the same as the respective older models without the touchscreen.

 

[Macative]

Touch screen is a standard feature in a modern premium Windows laptop. And no, it doesn't raise their price considerably — they are prices the same as the respective older models without the touchscreen.

Ok, find one without a touchscreen that is over $1000 and has 8 GB of RAM.

 

[robco74]

Keep moving those goalposts...

 

[leman]

Ok, find one without a touchscreen that is over $1000 and has 8 GB of RAM.

Lenovo X1 doesn't have a touchscreen. BTW, touchscreen option is $30 more, so much to "considerable cost"

 

[bobcomer]

Touch screen is a standard feature in a modern premium Windows laptop. And no, it doesn't raise their price considerably — they are prices the same as the respective older models without the touchscreen.

It's not quite a standard feature in Windows land. We haven't bought a touch screen laptop in about 8 years, and we are buying premium laptops. (Lenovo X1's, X13's usually, and yes, they make touch versions, but we don't buy them) None of us like touchscreens.

 

[leman]

It's not quite a standard feature in Windows land. We haven't bought a touch screen laptop in about 8 years, and we are buying premium laptops. (Lenovo X1's, X13's usually, and yes, they make touch versions, but we don't buy them) None of us like touchscreens.

I don't disagree. Just pointing out that premium lightweight business laptops more often have touchscreens these days than not.

 

[bobcomer]

I don't disagree. Just pointing out that premium lightweight business laptops more often have touchscreens these days than not.

I'm not sure about more often, but it's just a feeling.

As for 8G and 16G, 16G should be the low end, but it really doesn't bother me which is the low end, I buy what I need.

This last round I bought one with 16G and 2 with 32G. (And my Studio has 64G, and my home desktop has 128G, I like lots of RAM, the more the better.

 

[leman]

As for 8G and 16G, 16G should be the low end, but it really doesn't bother me which is the low end, I buy what I need.

Well, we can of course discuss what should be what and what not (not that I disagree with you), but right now we are talking about what's actually available. And the 8GB/256GB config seems to be pretty much the common starting point for premium business laptops, with prices around $1000 (sometimes even higher, especially if you want a better display).

 

[jdb8167]

The first AX chip was the A5X in 2012. Quickly replaced by the A6X the same year. Next was A8X 2 years after. In the timeline of AX chips we've mainly gotten the even numbered ones, with a few odd numbered ones sprinkled in:

A5X (45nm) - March 2012
A6X (32nm) - October 2012
A8X - (20nm; TSMC takes over here) - October 2014
A9X - (16nm) - September 2015
A10X - (10nm) - June 2017
A12X - (7nm) - October 2018
M1 (5nm) - November 2020

It's clear they coincide with die shrinks more than a yearly or dual-yearly schedule, although it seems from this that 2 year cycles are way more common.

I think it's sensible to make a guess that the M2 could be based on A16 cores given this list. I am curious if this report will come to fruition though. It wouldn't be the first time they've done something like this, with the A10 being 16nm but the A10X being 10nm. However it either means Apple would use risk-production chips, which seems unlikely.

Thanks for the correction. For some reason the A6X and A5X aren’t listed as predecessors of the A8X in the Wiki articles. Maybe because they were manufactured by Samsung and not TSMC.

 

[thenewperson]

Thanks for the correction. For some reason the A6X and A5X aren’t listed as predecessors of the A8X in the Wiki articles. Maybe because they were manufactured by Samsung and not TSMC.

Yeah I found that quite odd when I checked. I think what’s happening is that they’re simply going by what was in the last flagship iPad. Since it went A6X -> A7 -> A8X they just went with that.

 

[thenewperson]

- There was no M2 that followed the A15.

True, but that doesn’t really show anything since rumours already pointed to that being delayed and no MBA in 2021.

- It is already reported to be based on the A16.

As far as I’m aware, the reporting on the M2 seems to use A15 core names.

- Apple doesn't update Macs quickly, and isn't going to update their chips until it is worthwhile. Like, the performances gains to be had from a new fab process.

True. Since the A16 is rumoured to be based on 4nm, an A16-based 4nm M2 makes a lot of sense.

 

[Macative]

True, but that doesn’t really show anything since rumours already pointed to that being delayed and no MBA in 2021.

It was never delayed, people just didn't know what Apple was doing. And what they were doing was making a large family of high performance M1 chips. M2 was never on the table at all until late 2022, the same time frame as the 4nm A16.

 

[cp1160]

I might be!

But I think the A15 improvements on the A14 are surely going to carry across, which accounts for a lot of the CPU speed improvements and battery.

Centre stage is basically software and working on the Mac in the Studio Display so seems likely to come across in some fashion.

The rest isn't as sure, but if M2 has a bit more IO then HDMI 2.1 and a faster SD Card reader seem like fairly likely upgrades that can be made as a result.

M1 is remarkable, but the single threaded performance that was amazing in 2020 isn't as good in early 2022. I think that's the main area I want to see gains

Given the performance of the M1 chip and the change agent it was, what aspects of its performance today is holding you back compared to 2020? Is it the fastest rip roaring thing out there? No and it never was if that is the basis of comparison since a AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3990X 64-Core, 128-Thread will tear anything else to shreds. And melt your nice laptop to a silvery pool of molten aluminum.

Where does power lie your equation? I'm getting amazing battery performance on my 16" MacBook Pro M1 Max. The best? No. Amazing for the performance? yes.

What is the application that fails you? Share some perspective and I can agree. Will it rip through an 8K video like butte? No. Yes, I can process Canon 8K video, so I know. The M1 Max MBP to edit up to 30 streams of 4K ProRes video or up to seven streams of 8K ProRes video in Final Cut Pro. Its amazing. An M1, not so much.

 

[ian87w]

It's not quite a standard feature in Windows land. We haven't bought a touch screen laptop in about 8 years, and we are buying premium laptops. (Lenovo X1's, X13's usually, and yes, they make touch versions, but we don't buy them) None of us like touchscreens.

Touch screen on Windows laptops were just a crutch for the crappy trackpads where you couldn’t even scroll properly, thus swiping on the screen is easier. Once the trackpads are improved, nobody really uses the touch screen on their laptops.

 

[bobcomer]

Touch screen on Windows laptops were just a crutch for the crappy trackpads where you couldn’t even scroll properly, thus swiping on the screen is easier. Once the trackpads are improved, nobody really uses the touch screen on their laptops.

I don't like trackpads or touch on any computers, and yes that means Apple one's too. To me, a trackpad is all mush.

I use mice.

 

[ian87w]

I don't like trackpads or touch on any computers, and yes that means Apple one's too. To me, a trackpad is all mush.

I use mice.

Apple’s trackpad is arguably the best one out there. The only issue I have with the ones I tried is that the default speed is too slow and for some reason Apple doesn’t enable tap to click by default. Windows laptops trackpad are only decent recently. They have always been atrocious.

 

[Tagbert]

I hope 16GB doesn’t become the base. I’ll buy 16GB on my next MacBook, but hopefully the longer Apple sells 8GB as standard the more effort they will put into memory optimization.

Ian87w wants a default option with 16GB because where they are Apple doesn’t sell BTO versions.

 

[Tagbert]

It just seems odd to me that only the Studio Display gets this feature on the Mac (perhaps it gets it because it's basically an iPad internally), plus the MBP notch is massive relative to the actual camera, so there seems to be space for a more sophisticated camera setup (albeit not much depth).

Center Stage requires a higher resolution camera than the one that currently fits in a MBP/Air lid. Center Stage works by doing a shifting crop out of a larger image. the higher res cameras like the iPad and iPhone require too much depth to fit in the current laptop lid.

 

[playtech1]

Given the performance of the M1 chip and the change agent it was, what aspects of its performance today is holding you back compared to 2020?

I think the M1 Macs have been Apple's best products in years (perhaps the 2012 retina MBP being the most recent Mac that is similar). But I also think Apple cannot rest on its laurels and am excited for what M2 might bring.

If we get, say, a 20% speed boost with M2, that's not a fundamental change in functionality for anyone. But it doesn't take too many 20% speed gains before they add up to a major leap forward in what we can do with these tools.

 

[DrCC]

I'd say it won't be called the M2 but the M1X, M2 by its name will be "better" than M1 Pro/Max, an M1X can easily slot under the the M1 pro/Max and still be an evolution of the M1.
Apple has done this before with the A series, they might do it again.

 

[Tagbert]

I'd say it won't be called the M2 but the M1X, M2 by its name will be "better" than M1 Pro/Max, an M1X can easily slot under the the M1 pro/Max and still be an evolution of the M1.
Apple has done this before with the A series, they might do it again.

“M2” would only be considered better than an M1 Pro/Max to someone who takes a superficial look at it or who only needs single-core performance. Someone who really needs the performance of a Pro chip will look at actual performance measures. Someone who is distracted by the higher number probably does not need the extra multi-core performance and a (hypothical) M2 would be the right choice for them anyway.

How long would there need to be an “M1X”? There will always be periods when some models have newer chips than other models. Due to the work to build higher performing chips, they usually come out after the lower end chips. At some point the lower end chip will have a higher number than the higher performance chips. This happens now with the Intel chips. Xeons typically come out many months later than the laptop chips or the desktop chips.

 

[TiggrToo]

I'd say it won't be called the M2 but the M1X, M2 by its name will be "better" than M1 Pro/Max, an M1X can easily slot under the the M1 pro/Max and still be an evolution of the M1.
Apple has done this before with the A series, they might do it again.

They already did it - the M1 Max, M1 Pro and M1 Ultra can all be seen as X variations.

It’s two years on, no reason why it won’t be a new number - besides they all but said that they’re now done with the M1 chip announcements.

 

[bfChris2]

I will say that Center Stage in a MacBook is *highly* unlikely, though: laptop displays are much thinner than an iPad or iPhone, meaning there’s a lot less depth there to fit a good, wide-angle, high-resolution camera. They can barely fit a reasonably-good 1080p webcam in the 14”/16” MBPs, a Center Stage webcam would be a whole new level of technical challenge.

Is the thickness issue why we don’t have FaceID on the M1 MacBook Pro with notch? I never understood why the notch, but no FaceID. Thanks for finally explaining the reason!