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I’ll wait.

Patagonia comes to mind, but your overall point stands.

Don’t let your iterative familiarity trip you up on the generally recognized understanding of what revolutionary signifies. For real.

If you want to talk sincerely about “revolutionary”, maybe turn to someone who’s bore witness to a couple of computing hardware revolutions (and a few software ones, as well) during her lifetime.

What would you say was revolutionary? I think of the iphone but as far as I recall, other than multi-touch, most of that had been done before -- apple just did it way better and more seamlessly.

Maybe going to a GUI like the Apple Lisa or Macintosh? Those were the first GUIs that reached consumers but the tech had been done about a decade before by Xerox. But to the public I'd say that was revolutionary.

It will be interesting to see if moving to a CUI, as Windows 11 with AI Copilot is kicking off today, will be considered revolutionary. Of course, that might not be called revolutionary since it's iterating on other conversational AI.

Regardless, I'll have no take on that anytime soon because I haven't used Windows in 20 years and don't plan to start now 🤣
 
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What would you say was revolutionary? I think of the iphone but as far as I recall, other than multi-touch, most of that had been done before -- apple just did it way better and more seamlessly.

The personal microcomputer [1] was one. No one manufacturer wins that claim. Transistor miniaturization, probably the progenitor revolution [0?], can claim that one (codified into a fairly predictable model known as Moore’s law).

The World Wide Web was another [2]. Technically ARPANET could be here, but it was the former to have made the latter’s breakthroughs legible and accessible to non-computer science engineers. The former is what propagated the standards and breakthroughs of the latter so rapidly and completely in just five or so years. (Seriously, if you, reading this, were both born after, say, 1993, this one cannot be overstated).

Post-1983 “1G” analogue mobile phones (i.e., the generation after “mobile-radio phone”s, aka “0G”) were one [3]. This was a slower revolution, but one with profound implications as it was the first to, quote-unquote, “democratize” or mass-commodify handheld mobile communications.

Realizing the capacitive/“glass” UI in a portable form factor, as you note with the iPhone, was one [4], even as “glass” UI has a history with roots in the 1980s and first appearing, in a form familiar to us, as consumer products in 1993 (namely, the IBM Simon and the Apple Newton).

I don’t, however, believe this was a revolution with, ultimately, a positive outcome for humanity, given the way this was woven deliberately, inextricably (and synthetically) and, by-then, already-large manufacturers, with the tendrils of another revolution, “Web 2.0”, to emerge during the dawn of this millennium [5]. Apple here do get credit for being one of those manufacturers. (As Laurie Anderson foresaw, pithily, in the closing of 1986’s “Language Is a Virus”, revolutions like Web 2.0/social media need not be positive or beneficial for the general health of a society. They only need to be disruptive to that society fundamentally. Some revolutions can set back many other elements of a healthy society in a mess of other ways.)

More important than the “glass” UI, however, was reduced instruction set computing, or RISC [6]. This was a significant leap forward from complex instruction set computing, or CISC. Although one thinks of PowerPC, ARM, and Silicon when they think RISC, this revolution began with the IBM 801 in 1975. Credit here, however, should be shared by the IBM 801 and the Acorn RISC Machine, later to become ARM.

Advanced machine learning/neural networks/AI [7], happening as we speak, with consequences yet to be fully revealed or known, is probably the latest and last revolution to emerge within my lifetime. Watching that unfold in real time is a whole thing (i.e., “what a time to be alive”).

Those are the seven to come to mind. No, there’s an eighth, which you got very close to recognizing for its sincere origins.


Maybe going to a GUI like the Apple Lisa or Macintosh? Those were the first GUIs that reached consumers but the tech had been done about a decade before by Xerox. But to the public I'd say that was revolutionary.

I’ma say no to anything from Apple.

If credit to the GUI revolution belongs anywhere, PARC get it [8]. Apple, under Jobs, paying a visit to PARC, cribbed it unabashedly.

Apple are less, historically, of a revolutionary force and more of drawing from innovation elsewhere and, fortuitously, being in the right place at the right moments to, pardon the pun, produce fruits of those cribbings — to capitalize on those fruits — to propel them to where they are now (which, as we know, almost wasn’t the case on a couple of occasions during the first twenty years of their history). They learnt to crib with flair, as well, but credit to that industrial design belongs to the Dieter Rams and Frog Designs of the world, not with the Ives. Apple lucked out in ways other companies (arriving just before or after, or being in the wrong geography at nearly the right time) didn’t.

(Yes, hard work paid off, but hard work is pretty widespread everywhere one looks, and much of that doesn’t pay off.)


Regardless, I'll have no take on that anytime soon because I haven't used Windows in 20 years and don't plan to start now 🤣

Windows is an evolutionary dead-end OS. It remains propped up by businesses because it’s long been too big to fail. Apple should take heed of this, as the further they move away from BSD/Darwin (née, OpenDarwin), “it just works” (including playing nice with other protocols and other companies’ products), and the larger the market share they enjoy, the more they lock themselves into an evolutionary dead end, especially as they and their signature products, too, become “too big to fail”. 💁‍♀️
 
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I've got a couple of old iMacs that need upgrading, but that 256 base hard drive is just a no go. Not willing to spend that much for something with only 256. Should be 512 minimum. It's 2024 almost.
 
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I feel like people who care about the size of the SSD and the amount of RAM aren't going to be interested in an iMac in the first place. They probably buy a Mac Studio or a MacBook Pro.
Two other Macs, which can't be upgraded. Makes sense! Since Apple doesn’t care at all to build modular expandable computers, all the critique of the iMac is hollow. By the time you chose a Mac, you already agreed it would be thin and sealed. You don’t go to a Porsche dealer and complain that the 911 in particular doesn’t have much trunk space. Not even the new Mac Pro gets extra RAM slots and it’s not a thickness or heat issue. All this complaining about the All-in-One form factor would make more sense if there even was a Mac, which was truly adaptable. But if all the Mini and Studio can do is run an external monitor, well the iMac can too. 🤷
 
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Your quote had " ... and secondly because Pencil 2 is the replacement for Pencil 1. ..."

The problem is that the Pencil 1 and Pencil 2 systems are a non intersection in the older legacy iPads.

Things are closer to Pencil 1 is for old stuff that was more affordable and Pencil 2 is for higher end stuff. new USB-C pencil will eventually be more affordable pencil for everything in the actively sold iPad line up. The only quirk now is the iPad Gen 9 is still the low price , volume leader.

The new Pencil is likely the start of Apple selling two options for an Apple brand Pencil and not overly segregating the options. The new Pencil is not a 'replacement for Pencil 1' because it skips that segregation tract.
( It is just cheesy that Apple didn't make the new pencil work with Gen 9. There is likely zero technical reason there for that. If they could make a lighting Pencil 1 work with the iPad Gen 10 via an adapter, then making a USB-C pencil work with an adapter to Gen 9 should not have been a problem. Apple just doesn't want to put money into doing the work. that's it. )

With iPad sales drifting ( and/or sagging) Apple can't afford to get rid of the regular $249-289 Gen 9 specials that run very regularly.
I’m pretty doubtful Apple plans to keep the 9th gen iPad around very long. It’s pretty old, and incompatibility with the USBC Pencil kind of supports that Apple is moving on from it. But they’ll keep Pencil 1 around as long as the 9th gen is sold and maybe even longer.
I’m curious though if anyone has tried using the USBC Pencil with 9th gen with an adapter (assuming one exists). Is it verified that it doesn’t work?
But anyway, once Lightning is gone, the Pencil/iPad situation should be pretty simple and clear. The only bummer will be that base iPad (10th gen onward) won’t have the option of using the more expensive Pencil with pressure sensitivity, unless Apple either adds wireless Pencil support to the base iPad or USBC connector to the more expensive Pencil. But considering they put the front camera on the long side of the 10th gen iPad and named the cheaper Pencil the “USBC Pencil”, neither seem likely.

But anyway we’re kinda getting off topic from the thread.
 
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I've got a couple of old iMacs that need upgrading, but that 256 base hard drive is just a no go. Not willing to spend that much for something with only 256. Should be 512 minimum. It's 2024 almost.
You know, there’s a drop-down on the order page that will fix that for you. As has been stated many, many, many times… just because it’s not enough for you, doesn’t mean it’s not enough for EVERYONE.

I used to upgrade from 128GB base to 256GB, because after you install macOS and apps 128GB does leave precious little space. But on the 3 Macs that I’ve owned with 256, it’s rare to ever exceed 128 worth of storage, unless for example I create a separate volume for a Beta or similar. iCloud is the main reason.
 
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Glad the iMac got the M3. And, I can live with the somewhat limited ports and 2 TB storage option.

What I don't understand are the RAM options. I get the "base" model getting a meager amount so that they can advertise at a low price point. But, for custom orders, why limit the RAM to 24 GB? Ideally, I would like at least 40 GB. At the prices Apple charges for additional memory, this would be almost all pure profit for them for the people who ordered it.
 
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Over 2 yrs on, I am still a happy bunny😉. Love my mid-model Yellow, it’s a beauty to behold. Needless to say I am in for the long haul, and I have absolutely no justification to upgrade presently
 
Over 2 yrs on, I am still a happy bunny😉. Love my mid-model Yellow, it’s a beauty to behold. Needless to say I am in for the long haul, and I have absolutely no justification to upgrade presently
I also have the Yellow iMac; it wasn't a colour I'd considered, but then I saw one in an Apple shop and it looked great. The room it is in is a proper strong bright blue, so it complements the decor perfectly. I also like the purple,but not sure if that would work so well. The orange is lovely too. The blue and green are ok, a bit subdued, but one 'colour' I wouldn't have gone for is silver; it's so ubiquitous it's become clichéd and boring imo. So nice to have a bit of colour. And like you, I have no intention of replacing it for a good while yet; my rule for replacing electronic items is when they no longer work properly/as needed any more. The 2012 MacMini it replaced (which itself was an 'interim' machine bought s/h to replace an ancient and creaking 2006 MacPro in 2020) was nearing the end of its service life (it was on OS 10.15.7, the last iteration it could run), so I expect this iMac to last me another 4-5 years yet really. Given the sterling service offered by my previous Macs, I'm sure it'll do the job for some years to come. And it'll look great!
 
What I don't understand are the RAM options. I get the "base" model getting a meager amount so that they can advertise at a low price point. But, for custom orders, why limit the RAM to 24 GB?
Additionally to 8 GB there are now also 12 GB RAM chips. The maximum amount of memory chips on the motherboard is two. 2 × 12 = 24.
 
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I think it’s pretty clear from having watched the M3 introduction and looking at the overall product line, Apple expects the people who need more resources than are offered by the 24 inch iMac to buy a Mac Studio, or even a Mac Mini (which can be configured with up to 32gb RAM and an 8TB SSD).

I used 27-inch Retina iMacs for audio production and video editing from early 2015 up until a few weeks ago. I loved the design and convenience, but (probably made worse by the top-end CPU/GPU configurations I was purchasing) the thermals were always a problem when working at high CPU load. Really that computer was a compromise, and if something like the Mac Studio/Studio Display had existed in 2015 I absolutely would have bought that instead of the iMac.

The design and color schemes of the M1/M3 iMacs strongly signals to me that Apple has reverted to the original (relatively) “cheap and cheerful” approach to the product.

And I guess in all of this it needs to be kept in mind that desktop computers aren’t exactly a growth segment…the number of product choices Apple decides to offer are up against probable expectations of flat or declining sales for the whole category.
 
Glad the iMac got the M3. And, I can live with the somewhat limited ports and 2 TB storage option.

What I don't understand are the RAM options. I get the "base" model getting a meager amount so that they can advertise at a low price point. But, for custom orders, why limit the RAM to 24 GB? Ideally, I would like at least 40 GB. At the prices Apple charges for additional memory, this would be almost all pure profit for them for the people who ordered it.
I've ordered 24GB with mine as this machine will need to last me many, many years. I suppose the reason why you won't get any more than 24GB is because that's the current 'high end' option for this particular Mac & M3 chip. Naturally anyone wanting a lot more horsepower should go for M series Pro/Max/Ultra hardware.

Maybe in the future a iMac Pro will be available with Pro/Max chips with higher RAM options for those that need it?
 
I have a 27-inch 2019 iMac with i5 9600K chip, 64GB of RAM, a 1TB SSD and 8GB of dedicated video/graphics memory. ... Now, I need think about whether I’m going to wait for an M3 Pro Mac Mini and pair it with a third-party monitor, save up for an Apple Studio and pair it with a Studio Display… or just leave the ecosystem.
Personally, I think you'd be happily surprised with an M2 Pro Mac Mini + Studio Display or similar if you wanted to upgrade now; or if you wanted to wait, then an M3 Pro Mac Mini.

The M2 Pro Mac Mini 10CPU/16GPU/32GB/1TB is a very capable machine, and currently comes in at $1,899US. The Apple Studio Display would set you back another $1,599, so you'd be in it for $3,498US, which is admittedly no small outlay. Since I use mine for business, and I put it on an Apple installment plan, it doesn't feel as painful to pay for.

For reference, I moved up from a late 2014 iMac 27" Retina with 4GHz quad-core i7/32GB RAM/1TB SSD and AMD Radeon M295X with 4GB VRAM. That was over $4k when new. In 2021, I replaced it with a VESA-mounted iMac M1/8CPU/8GPU/16GB/1TB which totally blew the iMac i7 away in everything except the display. So naturally, I added a VESA-mounted Studio Display and now that's my main admin setup. I absolutely love it.

Let us know what you get and what you think when the time comes, Biro!
 
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I think we miss the days where entry level iMac 27' had price ~1800$ and upgradable RAM. It looks like those days are over. Now only display costs as much as whole computer back then. Mac studio + Studio display is twice the price of iMac from past. That is the problem.

New iMacs 24' are nice, but can they fill the gap created by axing iMac 27'? I don't think so. Replacement for that iMac cost much more (Mac studio + studio display). Is it better computer? Certainly. But the price is too high for many.
I had a coworker in our IT department who kept ordering Mac Studios for audio/video workstations at our university. He had never used one himself, though, and I kept telling him "For Pete's sake, man, just get Mac Minis! They are way more capable than you think."

Lots of people think Studios are necessary to replace the power of the 27" iMacs; I totally disagree, based on personal experience with all of them in everything from standard desk/web/text work to audio and video editing (for education).

I almost lost it when that same coworker ordered two Pro Display XDRs to go with two Mac Studios in one office where they only use Audacity and other audio apps to digitize and edit old audio recordings. Can you imagine?!
 
Personally, I think you'd be happily surprised with an M2 Pro Mac Mini + Studio Display or similar if you wanted to upgrade now; or if you wanted to wait, then an M3 Pro Mac Mini.

The M2 Pro Mac Mini 10CPU/16GPU/32GB/1TB is a very capable machine, and currently comes in at $1,899US. The Apple Studio Display would set you back another $1,599, so you'd be in it for $3,498US, which is admittedly no small outlay. Since I use mine for business, and I put it on an Apple installment plan, it doesn't feel as painful to pay for.

For reference, I moved up from a late 2014 iMac 27" Retina with 4GHz quad-core i7/32GB RAM/1TB SSD and AMD Radeon M295X with 4GB VRAM. That was over $4k when new. In 2021, I replaced it with a VESA-mounted iMac M1/8CPU/8GPU/16GB/1TB which totally blew the iMac i7 away in everything except the display. So naturally, I added a VESA-mounted Studio Display and now that's my main admin setup. I absolutely love it.

Let us know what you get and what you think when the time comes, Biro!
I have thought about an M2 Mini. If I go this route, I suspect it will be the base Pro model with 16GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD. Otherwise, the price rises fast to the level of a base M2 Max Mac Studio - which, with standard 32GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD upgrade, is another option. I’ll probably decide by Christmas or the end of the year.
 
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I also was geared up for a new IMac but the M3 max storage is 2TB. My old machine has a 3 TB fusion drive. It wont run the latest OS but I can get by. Apple post Steve Jobs throws a lot of curves. Will wait a bit see if they upgrade the Mac Mini. As soon as I order one they will upgrade the IMac.
Here's how I solved that problem for two of my iMac M1/1TB machines that needed the storage. Since they are both VESA-mounted, I bought a couple of Samsung T7 Shield 2TB drives and slipped each one into the gap on the back of the iMac where the VESA mount arm plate attaches to the iMac. A short USB-C cable to the port on the back of the iMac, and voila! I never see the drives physically, but they are there on my Mac's desktop.

Where there's a will, there's a way, so they say. Let us know what you decide to do!
 
I’m on the side advocating 8GB memory is plenty for a huge percentage of people.

You know, there’s a drop-down on the order page that will fix that for you. As has been stated many, many, many times… just because it’s not enough for you, doesn’t mean it’s not enough for EVERYONE.

I used to upgrade from 128GB base to 256GB, because after you install macOS and apps 128GB does leave precious little space. But on the 3 Macs that I’ve owned with 256, it’s rare to ever exceed 128 worth of storage, unless for example I create a separate volume for a Beta or similar. iCloud is the main reason.

+1

While I may upgrade my 2009 iMac eventually which works perfectly fine for my use I'm not even using 100GB of my 500GB SSD. I did upgrade the memory to 12GB admittedly. It's a little slow but no problems to be honest. The screen may not be as sharp as the new machines but it's no big deal. Each time a new machine is released I think about upgrading... but it isn't broken, other than the CD drive.

Still using my original iPhone SE. In fact my work phone is an iPhone 5. Not really in a hurry to upgrade.
 
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I think it’s pretty clear from having watched the M3 introduction and looking at the overall product line, Apple expects the people who need more resources than are offered by the 24 inch iMac to buy a Mac Studio, or even a Mac Mini (which can be configured with up to 32gb RAM and an 8TB SSD).

I used 27-inch Retina iMacs for audio production and video editing from early 2015 up until a few weeks ago. I loved the design and convenience, but (probably made worse by the top-end CPU/GPU configurations I was purchasing) the thermals were always a problem when working at high CPU load. Really that computer was a compromise, and if something like the Mac Studio/Studio Display had existed in 2015 I absolutely would have bought that instead of the iMac.

The design and color schemes of the M1/M3 iMacs strongly signals to me that Apple has reverted to the original (relatively) “cheap and cheerful” approach to the product.

And I guess in all of this it needs to be kept in mind that desktop computers aren’t exactly a growth segment…the number of product choices Apple decides to offer are up against probable expectations of flat or declining sales for the whole category.
This. The iMac Pro ain't coming back.

When the iMac Pro originally launched in 2017 (for $5K, mind you), soooo many people here moaned that Apple should give us a a nice 5K 27" standalone display and a 'pro' Mac mini so we wouldn't be hampered with the limitations of a AIO.

Guess what? Apple gave us just that! Yet here we have people complaining yet again. We literally have the best of both worlds. A <$1500 'family' AIO PC that is rock-solid and will last 10 years, as well as <$2500 options that let you dial up the power and the upgrade scenarios.
 
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