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macphoto861

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 20, 2021
496
444
TL;DR – the CPU is throttled to ~60% during Lightroom exports, no such throttling during heavy load tests with other apps.


Details:

Lightroom Classic is what I primarily use my computer for, so when I received my 16" M3 Max 14c, I was disappointed in the test I ran (a series of 500 Sony A1 images, exported to JPEGs)... it was better than the M1 Max, but not nearly as much as I was expecting. The M1 Max did the job in 9:37, while the M3 Max took 8:59. Later, I repeated the test, and got varied results in the 6-8 minute range. Observing the temperature and CPU/GPU load data, a fairly predictable pattern is visible:

1) It starts out with both the CPU and GPU running strong... images are exported at a rate of about 2 per second

2) Temperature rapidly starts to increase, reaching about 100C after 30-60 seconds

3) Fans start to ramp up, temperature begins to come down

4) CPU usage drops dramatically, to about 20% (though on some runs this stage would be 40-60%), GPU drops a bit, temperature drops to 60-70C, fans spin down, export rate slows to under 1 per second

5) After a few minutes in that state, CPU usage tentatively starts to increase to 70-90%, temperature slowly increases in turn, but no noticeable fan increase

6) As temperature reaches about 85C, CPU usage drops to around 60%, where it seems to reach somewhat of an equilibrium, with the GPU in the 80% range, still no audible fan... export rate has leveled off at about 1 per second


Now, one run finished in a mere 4:39(!)... that one was done first thing this morning, when the computer was completely cold, which presumably enabled it to stay at a higher CPU usage for longer (for the other runs, I let it cool down to an idle temperature of 50-60C). So, this seems like this is thermal throttling, right? Heavy load, computer gets hot, CPU throttles.

A few mysteries though. When it reaches that "equilibrium" state, the fans are not audibly running, so it's got plenty of headroom to accommodate more load.

Secondly, running another test that consisted of a video export from FCPX (mostly GPU) along with another app to put an additional load on the CPU, it behaved more like you would expect it to... temperature around 100-105C, fans running, CPU and GPU both pegged, and it stayed in this consistent state indefinitely. If the Lightroom scenario was the system throttling, why did similar throttling not also occur during this other test? Or, to put it differently, if it can handle this heavy stress test without significant throttling (or even if it is throttling a bit, it's at least TRYING to keep performance up by running the fans), why didn't it do so during the Lightroom export?

One other observation... while this export is going on (with LR's CPU usage staying around 60%) if I then initiate a "build previews" in LR, the CPU usage pegs again, and stays there (with fans spinning up). So, the capacity is there, just for some reason LR is not using it continuously during export.

High power mode doesn't make an appreciable difference... if there's any improvement, it's small enough to be lost in the variability of each test.

Lastly, briefly going back to the M1 Max, I do see similar behavior, but not as severe as this (need to run some more tests on that machine though, I've been focused mainly on the M3).
 

Adult80HD

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2019
701
837
Hmmm. I have done some extensive testing with my 16" M3 Max on LRC and not seen this at all. Are you on the latest version of Lightroom and MacOS? There was a MacOS 13.1.1 update for the M3.

Also, try putting it into High Power mode when plugged in and see if that makes a difference?

FWIW, my 16" is the 16/40 version with 128GB of RAM.
 

macphoto861

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 20, 2021
496
444
Hmmm. I have done some extensive testing with my 16" M3 Max on LRC and not seen this at all. Are you on the latest version of Lightroom and MacOS? There was a MacOS 13.1.1 update for the M3.

Also, try putting it into High Power mode when plugged in and see if that makes a difference?

FWIW, my 16" is the 16/40 version with 128GB of RAM.
Interesting. Yes, I'm on MacOS 14.1.1, and LRC 13.0.1, and mine is the 14/30 model with 36gb RAM.
 

macphoto861

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 20, 2021
496
444
Photoshop and LRC have been problematic with the M3 Max for me. I have been experiencing freezing, slow response, glitches, and extended save times. I wonder if it’s a software problem rather than an M3 Max limitation?
I haven't tried PS yet, but in general LRC is working fine during editing, it's just this bizarre behavior during exporting.
 

HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
7,290
3,341
May not be relevant but did a 500 .cr2 to .jpeg export on an M2 Studio Ultra which took 1 minute 49 seconds. Maximum temperature was 68C dropping ~20 degrees to 45C when export was completed. Maximum CPU load was 1800% or so. GPU wasn't used.
 
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macphoto861

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 20, 2021
496
444
Here are screenshots of what I’m seeing... the width of the graphs represents about the first 5 minutes or so of the export. Note the “sine wave” temperature of the M3 Max compared to the gradual rise and relative flatness of the M1 Max temperature, and the substantial and prolonged dip in the M3 Max’s performance cores utilization, compared to M1 Max that, although fluctuating, generally stays around 80%.

During the remaining few minutes of the M3 Max’s export (after this screenshot was captured), the temperature and CPU usage both level off at just a little bit lower than where they are at the right edge of this chart (still fluctuating, but averaging about 90 degrees C and 60% CPU).


Screenshot 2023-11-12 at 5.33.32 PM.png
 
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macphoto861

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 20, 2021
496
444
May not be relevant but did a 500 .cr2 to .jpeg export on an M2 Studio Ultra which took 1 minute 49 seconds. Maximum temperature was 68C dropping ~20 degrees to 45C when export was completed. Maximum CPU load was 1800% or so. GPU wasn't used.
That reminded me of another interesting tidbit that I forgot to mention. As part of my troubleshooting, I tried disabling the GPU in LRC's settings, but it appeared to still be used during exports. That occurred on both the new M3 Max and old M1 Max.
 

Adult80HD

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2019
701
837
May not be relevant but did a 500 .cr2 to .jpeg export on an M2 Studio Ultra which took 1 minute 49 seconds. Maximum temperature was 68C dropping ~20 degrees to 45C when export was completed. Maximum CPU load was 1800% or so. GPU wasn't used.
Not really relevant, but it's odd the GPU wasn't used on your machine. It should be unless you're on an old version of LR or have turned off Auto on the "Use Graphics Processor" and then disabled "Use GPU for Export." The default is for Lightroom to use the GPU for exports and has been for a while now.
 

Onimusha370

macrumors 65816
Aug 25, 2010
1,039
1,506
Anyone had any issues with Lightroom CC? Will be trying it out tomorrow when my maxed out 16 inch arrives - really hope there aren't any issues
 

macphoto861

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 20, 2021
496
444
Anyone had any issues with Lightroom CC? Will be trying it out tomorrow when my maxed out 16 inch arrives - really hope there aren't any issues
Ahhhhh.... your comment prompted me to try the export with LRCC (which I generally don't use because it's not conducive to my particular workflow). Those same 500 images exported in a bit over 5 minutes (which is the speed I was expecting), and the CPU/GPU were nearly fully saturated the entire time, without wild swings in temperature and utilization that I saw during the LRC export.

Screenshot 2023-11-12 at 7.07.24 PM.png
 

Onimusha370

macrumors 65816
Aug 25, 2010
1,039
1,506
Ahhhhh.... your comment prompted me to try the export with LRCC (which I generally don't use because it's not conducive to my particular workflow). Those same 500 images exported in a bit over 5 minutes (which is the speed I was expecting), and the CPU/GPU were nearly fully saturated the entire time, without wild swings in temperature and utilization that I saw during the LRC export.

View attachment 2311484
Thanks for doing this. Looks like the issue is confined to LRC then - hopefully there's a patch soon to fix it.
 
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Onimusha370

macrumors 65816
Aug 25, 2010
1,039
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Spoke slightly too soon... I've got some issues in Lightroom CC when using the XDR externally. When using the Pro Display XDR (1600 nits) preset in settings, I get a flickering effect in Lightroom CC where my pictures will alternate between being dim and bright, roughly every few seconds. I managed to fix this by turning off the GPU acceleration in Lightroom but that didn't feel like a good solution. I tried switching the display preset to Apple Display (P3-500 nits) and that seems to have fixed the issue for now.

Does anyone have any similar experience with this (either LRCC or LRC?) - I wonder if it's an issue with migration, i.e. I'm coming from a 2021 MBP which had a 500 nits SDR maximum, I wonder if somehow the profiles might have got in a mess somehow? Interesting how turning off GPU acceleration fixed the issue as well, perhaps its just a minor GPU bug on M3 Max that needs a Lightroom patch... Either way, will live in the 500 nits preset for now as a workaround.
 

macphoto861

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 20, 2021
496
444
Spoke slightly too soon... I've got some issues in Lightroom CC when using the XDR externally. When using the Pro Display XDR (1600 nits) preset in settings, I get a flickering effect in Lightroom CC where my pictures will alternate between being dim and bright, roughly every few seconds. I managed to fix this by turning off the GPU acceleration in Lightroom but that didn't feel like a good solution. I tried switching the display preset to Apple Display (P3-500 nits) and that seems to have fixed the issue for now.

Does anyone have any similar experience with this (either LRCC or LRC?) - I wonder if it's an issue with migration, i.e. I'm coming from a 2021 MBP which had a 500 nits SDR maximum, I wonder if somehow the profiles might have got in a mess somehow? Interesting how turning off GPU acceleration fixed the issue as well, perhaps its just a minor GPU bug on M3 Max that needs a Lightroom patch... Either way, will live in the 500 nits preset for now as a workaround.
Sorry, can't help you there... I don't use an external display.
 

Adult80HD

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2019
701
837
Spoke slightly too soon... I've got some issues in Lightroom CC when using the XDR externally. When using the Pro Display XDR (1600 nits) preset in settings, I get a flickering effect in Lightroom CC where my pictures will alternate between being dim and bright, roughly every few seconds. I managed to fix this by turning off the GPU acceleration in Lightroom but that didn't feel like a good solution. I tried switching the display preset to Apple Display (P3-500 nits) and that seems to have fixed the issue for now.

Does anyone have any similar experience with this (either LRCC or LRC?) - I wonder if it's an issue with migration, i.e. I'm coming from a 2021 MBP which had a 500 nits SDR maximum, I wonder if somehow the profiles might have got in a mess somehow? Interesting how turning off GPU acceleration fixed the issue as well, perhaps its just a minor GPU bug on M3 Max that needs a Lightroom patch... Either way, will live in the 500 nits preset for now as a workaround.
I will test my M3 Max with a ProDisplay XDR tomorrow and report back; I have several to try it with.
 

torifile

macrumors regular
Aug 10, 2020
158
161
Anyone had any issues with Lightroom CC? Will be trying it out tomorrow when my maxed out 16 inch arrives - really hope there aren't any issues
I’m going to give it a good workout with denoising some DNG files from my m11. On my M1 MBA, they would take 2 minutes each. On my M2 MBA, 1 minute.
 

Onimusha370

macrumors 65816
Aug 25, 2010
1,039
1,506
I’m going to give it a good workout with denoising some DNG files from my m11. On my M1 MBA, they would take 2 minutes each. On my M2 MBA, 1 minute.
Yeah it's crazy how good these machines are right? I've been denoising a ton of ARWs from a Sony A7RV today and it's night and day compared to my old M1 Pro. Depending on the file it was around 15 seconds each on the M3 Max, compared to around 45 seconds on my M1 Pro. Pretty awesome!
 

torifile

macrumors regular
Aug 10, 2020
158
161
Yeah it's crazy how good these machines are right? I've been denoising a ton of ARWs from a Sony A7RV today and it's night and day compared to my old M1 Pro. Depending on the file it was around 15 seconds each on the M3 Max, compared to around 45 seconds on my M1 Pro. Pretty awesome!
On the 60MP files from my M11, the M3 Max (14/30, 36 gigs RAM) took 25 seconds to denoise vs. 2 minutes for the M1 (16 gigs RAM), 1 minute for the M2 (16 gigs RAM) and 45 seconds for the M3 Pro (18 gig version). Damn.
 
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HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
7,290
3,341
Not really relevant, but it's odd the GPU wasn't used on your machine. It should be unless you're on an old version of LR or have turned off Auto on the "Use Graphics Processor" and then disabled "Use GPU for Export."

Lightroom Classic 13.0.1. Turned off auto, changed to Custom and clicked GPU for export. No change.
 
Last edited:

macphoto861

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 20, 2021
496
444
Lightroom Classic 13.0.1. Turned off auto, changed to Custom and clicked GPU for export. No change.
And it’s interesting that my machine is behaving exactly the opposite… GPU is used even if I disable it in the settings.
 
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