M5 Ultra in a MacBook

[AltecX]

So to preface this it's been a while since I've looked into how this hardware actually works so I may be explaining something that already exists in some form.

We know that the Ultra chips would be hard to cool in a laptop form factor, but what if they designed an Ultra chip that functioned like this specifically for the MacBooks.

A Mobile M5 Ultra that would mostly function identically like an M5 Max, but would under some work loads spin up the extra Ultra cores, that would normally be parked, and max out peak speed at say say 75% of the normal Ultra/Max thread speed. That way during most normal use you'd get typical Max power draw, but when doing a job that it knows needs Cores over raw speed it would help push through those work loads. When clock speed is needed more it turns the "ultra" cores off and just runs like a normally Max instead with teh higher cock speed.

Maybe its already doing something like this?? So I'm just explaining how things already work not sure.

 

[dblissmn]

I'd be wondering what a vapor chamber can do for the cooling in addition to the twin fans. I'm inclined to think it's not a very good idea -- for one thing I think the MBP could stand to have vapor chambers as it is, never mind doubling the processor core count.

 

[JPack]

What you've described has been happening gradually for the past 25 years. Intel/AMD started frequency scaling back in the early 2000s. In 2008, Intel's first gen i5/i7 chips used per-core power gating. By 2015 (Skylake), Intel was doing per-core frequency control. Today, these are all basic features in all notebook and desktop chips including M1.

M5 Ultra in a notebook doesn't exist because M5 Max already exceeds 100W when all CPU and GPU cores are loaded. Apple doesn't want to make a 1-inch thick MacBook and make you haul around a 200W adapter.

 

[theorist9]

M5 Ultra in a notebook doesn't exist because M5 Max already exceeds 100W when all CPU and GPU cores are loaded. Apple doesn't want to make a 1-inch thick MacBook and make you haul around a 200W adapter.

Yeah, the closest Apple came to making a portable workstation form factor was the 17" MBP, and we know that didn't sell well enough, since Apple discontinued it.

 

[MayaUser]

I'd be wondering what a vapor chamber can do for the cooling in addition to the twin fans. I'm inclined to think it's not a very good idea -- for one thing I think the MBP could stand to have vapor chambers as it is, never mind doubling the processor core count.

Agree.active cooling outperforms the vapor chamber.
vapor chamber is good just for passive cooled devices

 

[Zest28]

So to preface this it's been a while since I've looked into how this hardware actually works so I may be explaining something that already exists in some form.

We know that the Ultra chips would be hard to cool in a laptop form factor, but what if they designed an Ultra chip that functioned like this specifically for the MacBooks.

A Mobile M5 Ultra that would mostly function identically like an M5 Max, but would under some work loads spin up the extra Ultra cores, that would normally be parked, and max out peak speed at say say 75% of the normal Ultra/Max thread speed. That way during most normal use you'd get typical Max power draw, but when doing a job that it knows needs Cores over raw speed it would help push through those work loads. When clock speed is needed more it turns the "ultra" cores off and just runs like a normally Max instead with teh higher cock speed.

Maybe its already doing something like this?? So I'm just explaining how things already work not sure.

Bunch of non-sense. Just because Apple sucks at making laptops, doesn't mean it can't be done. Other laptop manufactures have no problem cooling 400W of power no problem at all.

Give the M5 Ultra to Lenovo and you will see they can make it work no problem at all.

 

[dmr727]

Bunch of non-sense. Just because Apple sucks at making laptops, doesn't mean it can't be done. Other laptop manufactures have no problem cooling 400W of power no problem at all.

Not everyone is a gamer. As @JPack said, Apple has no interest in building an inch thick laptop with a massive power brick.

 

[Zest28]

Not everyone is a gamer. As @JPack said, Apple has no interest in building an inch thick laptop with a massive power brick.

What you mean thick? My Lenovo Legion Pro i7 is pretty much the same size as my 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro while having superior cooling. It even fits into the same 16" laptop bag that I bought for the 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro.

And it doesn't need a "massive powerbrick" as it has Thunderbolt 5, so you can use any charger, except if you want to do gaming at maximum settings at 240 FPS.

Only Apple needs to build a super thick brick to cool a M5 Ultra, while Lenovo can do this in the same size as the 16" MBP no problem.

 

[JPack]

What you mean thick? My Lenovo Legion Pro i7 is pretty much the same size as my 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro while having superior cooling. It even fits into the same 16" laptop bag that I bought for the 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro.

And it doesn't need a "massive powerbrick" as it has Thunderbolt 5, so you can use any charger, except if you want to do gaming at maximum settings at 240 FPS.

Only Apple needs to build a super thick brick to cool a M5 Ultra, while Lenovo can do this in the same size as the 16" MBP no problem.

It's not the "same." Lenovo is much thicker at over 1-inch. It comes with a 400W power adapter that is nearly half the weight of the notebook.

https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/Legion/Legion_Pro_7_16IAX10H/Legion_Pro_7_16IAX10H_Spec.pdf

 

[Zest28]

It's not the "same." Lenovo is much thicker at over 1-inch. It comes with a 400W power adapter that is nearly half the weight of the notebook.


View attachment 2635546

View attachment 2635547

https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/Legion/Legion_Pro_7_16IAX10H/Legion_Pro_7_16IAX10H_Spec.pdf

It is not much thicker. I own both devices. They are pretty much the same size. Else it wouldn’t fit the laptop bags for my 16” MBP also.

Yeah, they put a 400W charger in it because the cooling is so top-tier, Lenovo can even overclock (go beyond the specs of NVIDIA) to reach even higher speeds than originally intended. It is called over clocking.

Shocking they put a charger in it (since Apple removes this from their products) and also have the capabilities to overclock high-end GPU’s in the same dimensions as a 16” MBP.

So you know a M5 Ultra is piss easy for companies like Lenovo to include in laptops the size of a 16” MBP.

 

[JPack]

It is not much thicker. I own both devices. They are pretty much the same size. Else it wouldn’t fit the laptop bags for my 16” MBP also.

Yeah, they put a 400W charger in it because the cooling is so top-tier, Lenovo can even overclock (go beyond the specs of NVIDIA) to reach even higher speeds than originally intended. It is called over clocking.

Shocking they put a charger in it (since Apple removes this from their products) and also have the capabilities to overclock high-end GPU’s in the same dimensions as a 16” MBP.

Lenovo is much thicker and heavier, equivalent to adding an iPad. When you spread that across the footprint of a 16-inch notebook, it's far more bulky.

A notebook bag isn't a glove. It's intended to fit accessories like a power adapter and a mouse, so of course it'll fit thick and thin notebooks.

MBP 16 is 0.66-inch and includes a 140W adapter. Enthusiasts buying Lenovo gaming notebooks are willing to make far more sacrifices such as weight, footprint, including carrying a 1kg power adapter.

 

[Zest28]

Lenovo is much thicker and heavier, equivalent to adding an iPad. When you spread that across the footprint of a 16-inch notebook, it's far more bulky.

A notebook bag isn't a glove. It's intended to fit accessories like a power adapter and a mouse, so of course it'll fit thick and thin notebooks.

MBP 16 is 0.66-inch and includes a 140W adapter. Enthusiasts buying Lenovo gaming notebooks are willing to make far more sacrifices such as weight, footprint, including carrying a 1kg power adapter.

You do realize it has USB-C and Thunderbolt ports so you don’t need to bring the 400W charger with you on a business trip?

And you are wrong. Laptop bags have a protective sleeve inside that has a snug fit with the laptops it is intended for. You cannot put a mouse and keyboard in that protective sleeve inside laptop bags.

And you don’t make any sacrifices as it doesn’t take up any additional space in the bag as it is inside the exact same sleeve as the 16” MBP.

The only sacrifice is if I plan to travel with only a Remarkable Pro or a 13” MBA where I can bring much smaller bags. But a 16” MBP doesn’t fit those smaller bags either.

 

[dmr727]

I'm sure your Lenovo is a fantastic gaming machine, but if you honestly think it's essentially the same size and weight as a MBP, you're clearly not Apple's target audience. Gamers never have been.

 

[Zest28]

I'm sure your Lenovo is a fantastic gaming machine, but if you honestly think it's essentially the same size and weight as a MBP, you're clearly not Apple's target audience. Gamers never have been.

In the real world, they are pretty similar. You don’t notice a difference at all.

Yeah, I guess I’m not Apple’s target audience when I have a 16” M1 MacBook Pro + Apple Studio Display, M2 MacBook Air and a M4 iPad Pro.

And the Lenovo I originally bought for gaming, but end up using it as a “workstation” in the end as some software just runs better on Windows.

Also some professional hardware (like the Access Virus TI) only works on the PC as Apple broke compatibility with “M1” and I hate to throw away that device

 

[JPack]

You do realize it has USB-C and Thunderbolt ports so you don’t need to bring the 400W charger with you on a business trip?

And you are wrong. Laptop bags have a protective sleeve inside that has a snug fit with the laptops it is intended for. You cannot put a mouse and keyboard in that protective sleeve inside laptop bags.

And you don’t make any sacrifices as it doesn’t take up any additional space in the bag as it is inside the exact same sleeve as the 16” MBP.

Only the 13” MacBook Air is the one that is thin and more portable as it actually fits into smaller bags (the 16” MBP doesn’t fit in these small bags too).

The reality is Lenovo includes a 400W adapter and Apple includes 140W in the box.

Do the math and calculate the volume (L x W x H) of both computers.

• Lenovo Legion Pro 7: 2.2L - 2.7L (134 to 164 cubic inches)
• Apple MacBook Pro: 1.5L (90 cubic inches)

All your hand waving arguments go out the door when we look at the actual numbers. Lenovo is 50% to 80% greater in volume. Lenovo also weighs 20% more than MacBook Pro 16. You might not notice the difference, but plenty of other people do.

 

[dmr727]

Yeah, I guess I’m not Apple’s target audience when I have a 16” M1 MacBook Pro + Apple Studio Display, M2 MacBook Air and a M4 iPad Pro.

If Apple sucks at making laptops, why do you own two?

 

[conmee]

The Lenovo is a great gaming and even mobile workstation rig. But it is not "the same" size and weight as a 16" MBP. That's just factually incorrect @JPack is posting actual dimensions. Give Lenovo the same size/weight constraints that Apple works with and Lenovo won't have the same success with high performance and larger cooling solution. Conversely, sure Apple can put an upcoming M5 Ultra in a MBP chassis if they decide thickness and weight aren't important. If a MacBook Ultra can be 1 1/2 lbs heavier and 3/4 inch thicker than the current 16MBP chassis, then yes, the M5 Ultra will do just fine in a laptop.

 

[Zest28]

The Lenovo is a great gaming and even mobile workstation rig. But it is not "the same" size and weight as a 16" MBP. That's just factually incorrect @JPack is posting actual dimensions. Give Lenovo the same size/weight constraints that Apple works with and Lenovo won't have the same success with high performance and larger cooling solution. Conversely, sure Apple can put an upcoming M5 Ultra in a MBP chassis if they decide thickness and weight aren't important. If a MacBook Ultra can be 1 1/2 lbs heavier and 3/4 inch thicker than the current 16MBP chassis, then yes, the M5 Ultra will do just fine in a laptop.

I’m not saying they are the exact same weight but calling a 16” MBP thin a Lenovo laptop is miss leading as you gain nothing in terms of portability in the real world. They are close enough that they fit in the exact same bags / sleeves.

Only the 13” MacBook Air offers a real upgrade.

You guys just look at some spec sheets but never travelled with both these devices. You don’t speak from 1st hand experience.

Honestly, my 16” M1 MacBook Pro is permanently docked to my Apple Studio Display and I travel only with the M2 MacBook Air or the Lenovo, as the 16” MBP offers nothing.

 

[QuarterSwede]

Just because Apple sucks at making laptops, doesn't mean it can't be done.

Now THAT’S a hot take. Lol.

And no, Lenovo is not great at making laptops. I have a newer, 2026, work issued 16” E15 Core 7 Ultra (or whatever) and it’s no where near as fast or cool running (the fans kick on doing mundane tasks like Outlook, Teams, and some Chrome). Plus it creaks already at one of the palm rests because it’s plastic.

 

[Zest28]

Now THAT’S a hot take. Lol.

Apple makes great iPhone chips, but their laptops have always been bad.

Always thermal throttling with weak AMD GPU's while PC manufacturers were able to put out small 14" thin laptops with powerful hardware. I always bought the base MacBook Pro back in the days, because the high-end model would overheat / thermal throttle so badly, it would downclock to the same speed as the base model.

The Mac division of Apple basically got saved by the iPhone division, giving Apple laptops beefed up iPhone chips that don't require much cooling.

If you give the same iPhone chips to other PC manufacturers, they can easily put out amazing M5 Ultra laptops. But that will never happen because it is not possible from an engineering perspective, it is because that is not the business model of Apple.

 

[conmee]

I’m not saying they are the exact same weight but calling a 16” MBP thin a Lenovo laptop is miss leading as you gain nothing in terms of portability in the real world. They are close enough that they fit in the exact same bags / sleeves.

Only the 13” MacBook Air offers a real upgrade.

Maybe I misread the thread. I thought the original thesis was that Lenovo would have no problem getting an M5 Ultra to work in a 16" laptop form-factor. And that is true if they don't live by the same size/weight constraints as Apple.

As far as portability and fitting into the same bags/sleeves, I'll grant you that the additional size of the Lenovo doesn't prohibit it from working with many of the same bags/sleeves. I don't see anything controversial in that. But the extra weight of a 16" MBP is already "heavy" for many folks and the Lenovo is even heavier. In that respect, I can see some considering the 16" MBP "more portable" by comparison. Compared to the 14" MBP (3.5lbs) my 16" MBP (4.7lbs) feels like a beast so if it were an additional 1.25-1.50lbs heavier than it currently is (like the Lenovo is 5.67lbs), I'd likely have gone with a 14". For me, a laptop stops being easily/conveniently portable after exceeding 5lbs (not counting whatever sized power brick). My 16" MBP 4.7lbs is already pushing it. And I do workout and go to the gym, so it's more a matter of being annoyingly heavy during travel than impossibly heavy.

 

[subjonas]

In the real world, they are pretty similar. You don’t notice a difference at all.

Yeah, I guess I’m not Apple’s target audience when I have a 16” M1 MacBook Pro + Apple Studio Display, M2 MacBook Air and a M4 iPad Pro.

You may not notice or care about the difference in size and weight yourself, but you can't generalize that to everyone. I have a 16" MBP too and would hate for it to get any bigger or heavier as it's already pushing the limit of my tolerance, and any more performance it would gain from getting bulkier would be diminishing returns for me.

Even if you have a 16" MBP, you're not the real target audience for it if you're dissatisfied with it and you wish it to change in a major way that would make most of the actual target audience for it majorly dissatisfied. In that case, you're more of a fringe outer circle target. It just happens to fit enough of your usage that you found it worth buying for lack of better option.

There's probably no way any of us here can prove how many people want what change, but I believe the satisfaction rate on the 16" MBP is high and the burden of proof lies on the person who wants the product to change.

 

[subjonas]

If you give the same iPhone chips to other PC manufacturers, they can easily put out amazing M5 Ultra laptops.

If they could, it would be because they would be playing by a different set of constraints, not because they're somehow inherently smarter. Engineering is all about trade offs, and good engineering business is all about choosing which set of trade offs will benefit and appeal to the most customers. Some PC manufacturers could put an M Ultra chip in a laptop, sure, but the laptop will have trade offs in some combination of size, weight, battery life, noise, heat, power efficiency, cost, form factor, material, aesthetics, etc., and will almost surely benefit and appeal to a smaller group of customers than the 16" MBP does (and this is before factoring in OS software preference).

 

[Zest28]

You may not notice or care about the difference in size and weight yourself, but you can't generalize that to everyone. I have a 16" MBP too and would hate for it to get any bigger or heavier as it's already pushing the limit of my tolerance, and any more performance it would gain from getting bulkier would be diminishing returns for me.

Even if you have a 16" MBP, you're not the real target audience for it if you're dissatisfied with it and you wish it to change in a major way that would make most of the actual target audience for it majorly dissatisfied. In that case, you're more of a fringe outer circle target. It just happens to fit enough of your usage that you found it worth buying for lack of better option.

There's probably no way any of us here can prove how many people want what change, but I believe the satisfaction rate on the 16" MBP is high and the burden of proof lies on the person who wants the product to change.

A M5 Ultra MBP is the target audience of Apple. Because the Apple audience mainly buys laptops, not desktops.

And to be honest, Apple has no business selling desktops because it has none of the advantages that desktop has, which is upgradability and repairability. With real desktops, you can just replace the GPU if a new one comes out and you are done. With Apple "desktops", you need to buy a whole new machine.

There are more people that would buy a M5 Ultra MBP then a M5 Ultra desktop.

 

[dwhankner]

M5 ultra in a Mac mini world be super cool.

Even an m5 max would be cool. I’d buy one.
I’m in to portable and small with big power

Why I think the Mac Pro is not going to be around much longer