Mac Mini + Apple TV = Many questions

[OllyW]

Thanks!
Do you think once the new ATV is out maybe there is a chance to be hacked and bring this functionality?

It's difficult to say, the current hacks are OS X based so they can't be used on the new model.

The new Apple TV is running a variant of iOS so at least the Jailbreak community will have a head start. A lot is going to depend on how much flash memory is available for adding new features.

 

[Icaras]

I am in the same conundrum.
I think the Mini is perfect for my needs of using as media player, accept a variety of formats and 1080p. But the cost and the lack of a more sophisticate UI(like ATV UI) is a downer. I know Plex is out there but I heard is not that easy to use.
I really need something VERY SIMPLE to use so wife and kids can use it without getting frustrate.

This is exactly one of the reasons why I began this thread. The intended setup won't be just for me, but others in the family that aren't that techy, and I know wouldn't want to mess with a desktop interface on the big screen. And the truth is, I would want to keep it that way for myself as well.

I would rather stick to ATV's UI as the primary front UI for all the couch-family viewing/listening. I should have mentioned before that I have no specialized needs for additional, non apple formats. In fact I will only be streaming MP4s for video and MP3s and AACs for audio. Very simple. Nothing more. For that I think the ATV is perfect.

I think if you're not working with a Mac Pro or other power hungry PC desktop tower, than you might not want to consider a Mini? Simply stream the content from your laptops might be just good enough. I am just sort of dancing around the idea of a much more discreet and energy efficient machine to house that content and perhaps the contents of all Macs in the house, to stream, hence the Mac mini.

My idea of having a Mini as a companion to the ATV though, at least gives us the option of connecting it directly to the TV if you personally decide to do more than just front row stuff on the couch.

And again, I think $99 is a killer deal in my opinion. That's much easier to swallow than the previous $229 price tag.

 

[gugy]

This is exactly one of the reasons why I began this thread. The intended setup won't be just for me, but others in the family that aren't that techy, and I know wouldn't want to mess with a desktop interface on the big screen. And the truth is, I would want to keep it that way for myself as well.

I would rather stick to ATV's UI as the primary front UI for all the couch-family viewing/listening. I should have mentioned before that I have no specialized needs for additional, non apple formats. In fact I will only be streaming MP4s for video and MP3s and AACs for audio. Very simple. Nothing more. For that I think the ATV is perfect.

I think if you're not working with a Mac Pro or other power hungry PC desktop tower, than you might not want to consider a Mini? Simply stream the content from your laptops might be just good enough. I am just sort of dancing around the idea of a much more discreet and energy efficient machine to house that content and perhaps the contents of all Macs in the house, to stream, hence the Mac mini.

My idea of having a Mini as a companion to the ATV though, at least gives us the option of connecting it directly to the TV if you personally decide to do more than just front row stuff on the couch.

And again, I think $99 is a killer deal in my opinion. That's much easier to swallow than the previous $229 price tag.

Unless you have multiple TVs I see no reason to buy a Mini and ATV. In my case I just have one 60" plasma as the only TV so just the Mini will do it.
I just can get my head to justify paying $700 for it for just a media player. There is also the Boxee Box coming soon as maybe a possible alternative. We'll see. I would really like to stick with an all Apple solution but I am open to another brand if they indeed can offer many of the function the ATV is missing now.

 

[Icaras]

Unless you have multiple TVs I see the reason to buy a Mini and ATV. In my case I just have one 60" plasma as the only TV so just the Mini will do it.
I just can get my head to justify paying $700 for it. There is also the Boxee Box coming soon as maybe a possible alternative. We'll see.

But you didn't start with the ATV, you started with the mini, so you're only adding $99 now for the ATV...

And I agree, the idea is much more justified if you own multiple TV sets that want to be connected. You could keep that mini connected to the 60" TV if it's your primary home viewing system, then if you add TVs in house, simply add ATVs to those and stream from the mini.

 

[tbayrgs]

Unless you have multiple TVs I see no reason to buy a Mini and ATV. In my case I just have one 60" plasma as the only TV so just the Mini will do it.
I just can get my head to justify paying $700 for it for just a media player. There is also the Boxee Box coming soon as maybe a possible alternative. We'll see. I would really like to stick with an all Apple solution but I am open to another brand if they indeed can offer many of the function the ATV is missing now.

Yeah, I'd have a much harder time justifying the purchase to the wife now than I did just a year ago when I was able to pick up a refurb for $499 and upgrade the RAM and HDD myself. The fact that the kids can also use the computer on the big TV helped soften the $ blow.

 

[DJinTX]

I am in the same conundrum.
I think the Mini is perfect for my needs of using as media player, accept a variety of formats and 1080p. But the cost and the lack of a more sophisticate UI(like ATV UI) is a downer. I know Plex is out there but I heard is not that easy to use.
I really need something VERY SIMPLE to use so wife and kids can use it without getting frustrate.

I totally know where you're coming from. My wife is savvy and would pick it up, but there is nothing more frustrating than having to give houseguests a tutorial on how to use our TV when we are not here. And then they still don't understand some things. So simple is a necessity.

 

[DJinTX]

I would rather stick to ATV's UI as the primary front UI for all the couch-family viewing/listening. I should have mentioned before that I have no specialized needs for additional, non apple formats. In fact I will only be streaming MP4s for video and MP3s and AACs for audio. Very simple. Nothing more. For that I think the ATV is perfect

Same here. All of my media is in iTunes, so the ATV is a viable solution. Although I just keep thinking how I will have to have my MacBook running iTunes in the other room if I want to stream something. I'm not sure why this is bothering me because right now if I want to stream music to my airport express in the living room, I also have to have my computer running, so its the same really. I may have to find an older Mac Mini on ebay to act as my ATV server.

Or, if the jailbreak guys can crack the ATV, maybe they can add the functionality of allowing it to connect an external HD to the USB port for music? Hmmm, i wonder if this would work.

 

[gilford]

40GB! That's ridiculous! This is including all the features as well, right?

Nope, thats the film and the DD 5.1 soundtrack! You can compress down to 720p and probably shed 30gb but why bother? Storage is so cheap! I would rather fork out £100 on 2TB and have the luxury of putting my Blu Rays in the attic and have them available instantly via Plex

Thanks for the advice. Yea, it seems generally speaking, that the Mac mini is preferred as the definite HTPC and most definitely offers greater control and flexibility than the ATV.

Do you have any other Macs or computers in the house with their own iTunes libraries? Do you sync all of them to the mini somehow? Looks like I'd like the mini but I'm a little wary of having to update the mini's library from time to time as I plan to have all media from all Macs combined on it.

Yes, I have a 27" iMac in my home office Its easy to get all your stuff across, I just consolodated my iTunes library to an external and put that on the Mini, that way I had an exact replica on both computers. We buy and import all our music on the iTunes in the office so I got a nifty little (FREE) app called ARSync which auto copies any changes made to the iTunes music folder, GENIUS! For purchased stuff you can use iTunes Home Sharing

Sounds like it might be a lot of maintenance that I may not want to keep up with. Is this the advantage of having a NAS?

I wouldn't bother with a NAS personally, I much prefer just using USB externals plugged straight into the mini

A lot of other people use NAS's but personally I cant be bothered.

 

[srexy]

The thing is that Plex IS easy to use. It's the setup that takes a little while but now with the release of Plex .9 it's infinitely easier.

By default it's setup to use the apple remote but the Harmony remote is really the way to go. Bear in mind also that any Mini above 2.0ghz will be plenty powerful enough for your HTPC needs which opens up the possibility of recurve if you can manage without HDMI.

I have a mini attached to our main viewing tv but it also doubles as the server for he rest of the house serving up Plex on IOS for the iPhones, iPhoto for the 2 other macs and media for the 1st gen aTV in our bedroom. Of all the devices the aTV sees the least action.

 

[Seydlitz]

The thing is that Plex IS easy to use. It's the setup that takes a little while but now with the release of Plex .9 it's infinitely easier.

I'm baffled in the extreme. What is so hard about setting up Plex/XBMC? It's just download, install and GOGOGO! Older versions also worked perfectly fine out of the box (Even on Linux and Windows^^)

No need for tweaks, no need for hacks. It eats any fileformat, has a superb simple UI.

For me the idea that setting up a mini as dedicated iTunes server to stream to an Apple TV is quite daft. It's an extra complicating step which will only hamper your abilities, as the Mac Mini is so much more powerful, flexible and capable of being a full fletched media center. And the most important part... it's incredibly easy.

 

[srexy]

I agree that Plex is in and of itself very easy to use (NOW!) but in terms of a seamless media player it's going to be tricker to setup than aTV - there are several steps to making Plex appear as just another source for the TV.

 

[Seydlitz]

I agree that Plex is in and of itself very easy to use (NOW!) but in terms of a seamless media player it's going to be tricker to setup than aTV - there are several steps to making Plex appear as just another source for the TV.

And please do tell what those steps are?

Strangely enough I always just installed it on a machine and it was done... So what arcane setup did you need?

 

[8CoreWhore]

The Mac Pro can be on (but not the monitor) and use very little energy. If you look at Activity Monitor while all your apps are closed and no other activity, they'll be at or near 0%. All the other componants are stopped at well... graphics card, HDDs, etc.

iTunes does not have to be open. So, you have your music and videos on a HDD in the MP, not even spinning, until aTV makes a request... so the HDD spins up and delivers the video. At that point, the CPU's still are quiet. The CPU in the aTV does all the work.

Energy really isn't a problem. Compare that increase cost (very minimal) to the cost of getting a Mac Mini. You'd have to run that MP for years before reaching $700 in energy cost.

So the content sits passive on the MP using no energy until the aTV ask for content, then it spins up a little - but no more than any other alternative.

 

[srexy]

And please do tell what those steps are?

Strangely enough I always just installed it on a machine and it was done... So what arcane setup did you need?

The sarcasm is unwarranted.

I'm merely pointing out that the aTV is fairly plug and play - you plug it into your tv and bingo you have another source that boots straight into a spouse friendly interface where he or she will be able to access media.

Obviously a Plex setup is going to require additional steps that may involve a keyboard and mouse, apple remote or Harmony with keymapping. You can't just plug a Mac into the tv and expect it to miraculously transform itself into a plex media player.

I love plex and have set it up as a spouse friendly media player. It wasn't as easy as my aTV and as I had to create both a custom keymapping and a custom Harmony profile to tie in all my HT components - it wasn't easy period.

 

[J&JPolangin]

...my setup on my bedroom 42" LCD pannel is the prev gen 2.53Ghz mini ($507 NIB) from our base PX the day the new models came out... they just put the old aTV's on sale for $119 and I was thinking about getting one but after going thru this thread I don't know if its even needed?...

In the living room I have a 2 year old HP a6650f AMD quad 2.2Ghz CPU w/ 6Gb RAM and 2Tb internal mirrored HDD's also...

 

[Seydlitz]

The sarcasm is unwarranted.

I'm merely pointing out that the aTV is fairly plug and play - you plug it into your tv and bingo you have another source that boots straight into a spouse friendly interface where he or she will be able to access media.

Obviously a Plex setup is going to require additional steps that may involve a keyboard and mouse, apple remote or Harmony with keymapping. You can't just plug a Mac into the tv and expect it to miraculously transform itself into a plex media player.

I love plex and have set it up as a spouse friendly media player. It wasn't as easy as my aTV and as I had to create both a custom keymapping and a custom Harmony profile to tie in all my HT components - it wasn't easy period.

No, I was very curious. I wanted to know what you had to do besides installing it.

Now I know the difference: the harmony. But that will remain the same if you use an Apple TV, you will need to program it. Had you used an Apple remote you would be done out of the box (just as an ATV). And before you retort.. I have a Harmony and apple remote. Trust me, apple remote works out of the box on a Mac Mini (plex or XBMC), whereas a harmony needs to be programmed for *shock* an ATV. The work is therefor... the same.

Plex+Mac is easy. You had the added issue of a programable remote... but that would go with any HTPC device you add, so it's wrong to say that Plex is hard to setup.

The reason why I bring this up is the myth that Plex/XBMC is hard to setup. It's just ready to go as soon as you hit install.

 

[tbayrgs]

No, I was very curious. I wanted to know what you had to do besides installing it.

Now I know the difference: the harmony. But that will remain the same if you use an Apple TV, you will need to program it. Had you used an Apple remote you would be done out of the box (just as an ATV). And before you retort.. I have a Harmony and apple remote. Trust me, apple remote works out of the box on a Mac Mini (plex or XBMC), whereas a harmony needs to be programmed for *shock* an ATV. The work is therefor... the same.

Plex+Mac is easy. You had the added issue of a programable remote... but that would go with any HTPC device you add, so it's wrong to say that Plex is hard to setup.

The reason why I bring this up is the myth that Plex/XBMC is hard to setup. It's just ready to go as soon as you hit install.

Not if the naming conventions one used for their TV shows and Movies didn't fit what the scrappers (now, scanner) would recognize. I'm not sure if Plex 9 is more user-friendly that way as I have my library properly configured but when I first installed Plex 8, most of my media wasn't properly recognized by the scrappers because I wasn't using filename formats that Plex liked and thus, the laborious task of renaming everything. Plex has a reputation for being notoriously flakey with naming conventions, especially for TV shows(and especially for more obscure TV shows). You may have to manually tag media in iTunes (if that matters to you) but either way, if it's in your iTunes library, it's immediately viewable on your TV.

 

[DJinTX]

I think what makes ATV more attractive for some is not that Plex is difficult to install or use, but that the ATV just presents a more seamless experience.

At the beginning, usage is basically the same. To use the ATV or Plex, you first have to switch your A/V source(s), either manually or with universal remote. From there is where it differs.

For the ATV, you are then immediately immersed in the UI and ready to go. If you use Plex, you first see a desktop and must locate the Plex app and wait for it to launch. Also, I think you can more readily be unexpectedly removed from the UI in Plex because the app can freeze or encounter an issue and crash. This means either restarting the Mac, and/or relaunching the app. In my experience this doesn't really happen with the ATV. While I think the Plex interface is a bit cluttered, it is still much better than alot out there, and very usable. For some users I think it just comes down to wanting a more seamless experience and never seeing behind the curtains that there is a computer there.

 

[Seydlitz]

For the ATV, you are then immediately immersed in the UI and ready to go. If you use Plex, you first see a desktop and must locate the Plex app and wait for it to launch. Also, I think you can more readily be unexpectedly removed from the UI in Plex because the app can freeze or encounter an issue and crash. This means either restarting the Mac, and/or relaunching the app. In my experience this doesn't really happen with the ATV. While I think the Plex interface is a bit cluttered, it is still much better than alot out there, and very usable. For some users I think it just comes down to wanting a more seamless experience and never seeing behind the curtains that there is a computer there.

The whole problem is that you are a partly wrong here.

1. An Ion with XBMC boots up immediately into XBMC
2. An Apple TV with Linux and XBMC boots up into XBMC
3. I had to restart the old Apple TV a lot more than my Mac Mini with XBMC. Now that was largely because I was asking too much from it, but it's tell-tale that I had less issues when I hacked it and got more "oomph".


XBMC and Plex don't start automatically under a Mac Mini/MB, but if you push the menu button on your remote it boots XBMC/Plex. So no leaving the couch.

So it's true you are "plagued" with a OS UI in the first few seconds IF you use OSX. But it's hardly distracting (one remote click) and does not even exist if you use Linux.

On the leaving the UI. I'm not exaggerating that I never experienced a crash to desktop in either XBMC and Plex. Considering the myriad of files i throw at it this is extremely impressive. If you look at the XBMC and Plex fora, crashes to desktop are seldom mentioned. As these errors will show up on fora if they exist it seems safe to say that these are very stable products indeed.

On the scraper. You got me... Plex had scraper issues, not sure if it has improved. I use XBMC and it has less scraper issues.

Oh and before we get the "LINUX IS HARD" mantra. Just download a Live CD from XBMC. All of us here can do that. It takes less time than registering on iTunes