Mac mini FUD

[macdos]

Far better to dictate to others how they should use computers and decry anything else - including a factory default from the manufacturer as not being "proper" or "reasonable" I suppose?

Default from manufacturers of TV screens is to use motion smoothing to get that soapy opera effect for sports events. Makes movies look surrealistic, but if you are OK with that, who am I to ”decry” your ”preference”?

You can use your computer anyway you like, but my purpose was to explain the reasons why it is a bad idea to use non integer scaling. But if you are hell-bent on working against physics, you are welcome… (and in a laptop, that works wonders for battery time, too!)

 

[Ploki]

So, we're in agreement that this is basically an idealogical issue then. Great.

Yes, using some scalable system that allows using the resolution of the display without needing to do double-pixel rendering would be great. But we don't have that, and suggesting that because that isn't available, the only "proper" or "reasonable" thing to do, is to use exactly 1x or exactly 2x scaling, is ridiculous.

Scaling as it's done now seems like a workaround not a proper implementation of technology. It's not ideological rather than technical issue.

I do prefer running native if possible and will certainly do so on the UltraFine 4K. It's just not practical on the 15" MBP, they should've introduced a 3360*2100 (1680*1050) screen like the pre-retina highres screen x2.
Many Windows makes offer 3840*2160 displays as option, don't know what the big deal is.

It just seems like they went "eh, the GPU can take, lets just scale it"

in the meantime iPad Pro runs 264PPI at 12.9".

 

[Stephen.R]

Default from manufacturers of TV screens

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

You can use your computer anyway you like

But it's not as "proper" or "reasonable" as squinting at text I can't read or having text the size of the print in a kids "my first words" book?

why it is a bad idea to use non integer scaling

There are two factors there - appearance, and performance. The first is a subjective matter, and the second has been shown to not be an issue for a single 4K display on a 2018 Mini provided it has enough memory. The problem isn't that you "explain" - the problem is that you present your views as absolute statements of fact. Remember not so long ago when you questioned why people would even use 2x scaling - surely everyone wants to use 4K at 1x on their 21" displays, right?

Scaling as it's done now seems like a workaround not a proper implementation of technology.

Given how long previous major tech 'migrations' have taken (I ran 64 bit apps on a 2003 PowerMac, how long has it taken for all developers to ship 64bit?) can you really blame them for shipping a usable workaround?

The analogue would be if they'd never shipped rosetta to allow PPC apps to run on Intel, or if they'd never included the Classic environment - and instead just insisted all developers everywhere must rewrite/recompile their apps to support the new technology being used.

I do prefer running native if possible and will certainly do so on the UltraFine 4K.

And that's a screen where it's potentially viable to use it that way - the vast majority of displays available do not have adequate PPI to make that realistic for me, or I'd imagine a lot of other people.

For all we know Apple are working on some new version of resolution independence for macOS, and we'll be able to run our screens at 1x but get super smooth text and UI. Until that's released, and developers catch up and release updates to take advantage of it - we have a usable solution.

It's not ideological

Your specific arguments aren't really what I take issue with - it's the ones from other people, claiming that any other use is not "proper" or "reasonable" - here's a slightly hacky solution to a problem, but no. You should just live with the problem because the solution isn't "pure". That's what those arguments boil down to.

It's a pretty good example of "perfect is the enemy of good".

 

[WilliamG]

There's so much FUD in this forum that I can't help but reconsider my Mac mini purchase.

Sure it’s usually the vocal minority that post negative reviews. But is the Mac mini a lemon? Is video lag and coil whine an issue? Is 16gb RAM a bare minimum necessity? Is there a shortage of good 4K displays that scale efficiently?

My needs are pretty basic. No heavy coding or VR work. Mostly 2D Adobe apps like PS, Illustrator. But I wonder if a 5K iMac with dGPU might be a better buy. Or even wait for 2019 iMac refresh.

My 2018 mini experience has been less than stellar, and I'll be returning mine today.

You know something is wrong when you can clone the install from the 2018 mini back to a 2014 mini, and the 2014 mini has no issues at all, - no crashes, no hangs - nothing.

I know deep down in there the 2018 is a more capable machine, but for my uses the speed is less important, and stability is imperative. The 2018 mini needs a good few firmware updates if you ask me.

 

[Ploki]

My 2018 mini experience has been less than stellar, and I'll be returning mine today.

You know something is wrong when you can clone the install from the 2018 mini back to a 2014 mini, and the 2014 mini has no issues at all, - no crashes, no hangs - nothing.

I know deep down in there the 2018 is a more capable machine, but for my uses the speed is less important, and stability is imperative. The 2018 mini needs a good few firmware updates if you ask me.

Dang.
I did a fresh setup on my.
but also booted it from a clone of previous MBP install.
And directly from a disposable external OS installation i have for testing things i wouldnt want on my system. (#yolo system, everything goes)

it works fine on all three

 

[apolloa]

I would like to know for sure:

Does the i7 really overheat, like when playing games in Windows.

Would the i5 be sufficient for old Windows games like Crysis 1, and other normal tasks plus maybe a bit of messing out with 3D animation, but only for my own personal fun. Hobby like.

Does the T2 chip crash the Mini every 5 seconds or is it fine, will an EGPU crash the Mini with the T2 chip?

But their seems to be some mixed info on this site regarding some of these questions? So if anyone could clear up through the FUD that would be great.

 

[Stephen.R]

Does the T2 chip crash the Mini every 5 seconds or is it fine

There’s a lot of middle ground there. Clearly some units have issues with the T2. Ive had two crashes I believe caused by it, but it went for a while without any and then two in reasonably close time frame.

If you want to play games I don’t think this is the machine for you.

 

[PeterJP]

1. If you are in need of a new display (5K etc), then getting a 2017 iMac is the way to go.

I think the mac mini is also an option in this case. If you get one with another 5k screen (e.g. Iiyama at 600 euro), you still save about 600 euros. That's enough to get a DIY upgrade to 32GB + a 2TB external SSD and still have some change.

So why am I doing it? Purely because the PDF font rendering of Preview is TERRIBLE on macOS since Snow Leopard era on non-retina screens. I do a lot of PDF work, so it really bothers me.

Are you certain the crappy rendering isn't just caused because Apple disabled sub-pixel rendering for text? Maybe you could avoid all that extra rendering for every pixel on your screen by re-enabling it. Here's an article I found by quickly googling it.

 

[F-Train]

Does the T2 chip crash the Mini every 5 seconds or is it fine, will an EGPU crash the Mini with the T2 chip?

But their seems to be some mixed info on this site regarding some of these questions? So if anyone could clear up through the FUD that would be great.

Here is a thread on using the mini with an external video card. So far, it has over 33,000 views. Not one of the 431 posts talks about an external card crashing the mini: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/external-gpu-egpu-resources.2154653/

If you make your decisions based on giving equal weight to everything said in Internet forums, you will never purchase any computer of any brand.
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If you want to play games I don’t think this is the machine for you.

There are lots of people, myself among them, using the mini with an external video card to play games. Among other things, I am running X-Plane, which is notoriously demanding of resources.

9 to 5 Mac has published three articles plus videos on doing this, including with Boot Camp/Windows, in just the last three weeks. This is the first of the three videos:

 

[Ploki]

I would like to know for sure:

Does the i7 really overheat, like when playing games in Windows.

Would the i5 be sufficient for old Windows games like Crysis 1, and other normal tasks plus maybe a bit of messing out with 3D animation, but only for my own personal fun. Hobby like.

Does the T2 chip crash the Mini every 5 seconds or is it fine, will an EGPU crash the Mini with the T2 chip?

But their seems to be some mixed info on this site regarding some of these questions? So if anyone could clear up through the FUD that would be great.

buying a mac for games is not really the best decision one can make.
a medium tower with a GPU will be cheaper.
Why do you need a mac?

no, i7 doesn't overheat under load.
Yes i5 would be fine for games.
I don't know about eGPU but i had no T2 related crashes on my 2018 mini.

 

[F-Train]

buying a mac for games is not really the best decision one can make.
a medium tower with a GPU will be cheaper.
Why do you need a mac?

no, i7 doesn't overheat under load.
Yes i5 would be fine for games.
I don't know about eGPU but i had no T2 related crashes on my 2018 mini.

If you read his post, he is talking about buying a Mac for general use and wants to know if he can play some games on it.

The post has nothing to do with purchasing a dedicated gaming machine.

 

[radus]

I own 2 Mac Mini 2018 i7, doing some medical research.
If you want to work only with OS X and / or Windows the Mac Mini 2018 is a very good solution.
It is very speedy and stable, i7 does not overheat. External GPU is stable and speedy.

Linux will only run on a VM. I could not install it neither on the internal SSD nor on an external SSD (USB / Thunderbolt).
It did not boot an external linux - ssd, where linux was installed on a different system.

 

[tyche]

I've finally made the move from my trusty 2010 21.5" iMac (3.5 Ghz i5, 16gb, ssd) to a 2018 mini (i5/16/512). It's only been 3 days but about 6-8 hours each for usage.

Is it a lemon? No. Does it have issues that appear to plague most 2017+ apple computers? Yes unfortunately I won't deny that. Apple's recent hardware designs are terrible whether it's drivers for tb3/usb-c, shielding of bluetooth, T2 design issues, etc. It will mostly come down to what you're attaching and possibly what you're doing.

I haven't had any crashes but I do get the delay waking the monitor from sleep. I wish it would just work like a Windows pc (zing) but waiting ~5 seconds I will accept. I just put a longer delay before they sleep for now.

My mini is whisper quiet. I haven't heard it make any noise and it sits beside my monitor. However, I haven't done anything like a handbrake conversion. I use XCode, VMware and various utilities mostly.

Do you need 16gb? I would say yes. With just a few applications open I can see it using between 4-6gb. I feel it's just a better minimum these days to go for 16gb. No one optimizes code anymore and the bloat is real.

My connections are 2 monitors (24" Dell 1920x1200's), one hdmi, one dp. One uplink from the monitor usb hub the mini. The mouse, keyboard and speakers all plug into the usb monitor hub. I use wired ethernet. And I plug one usb drive in when I make a clone image backup but remove it after.

So in my set up, it runs well, the displays look good. It's doing everything I want and I'm quite happy with it. I would have considered a 5k iMac (2017 model) but the cost was too high and I wanted 2 monitors and I prefer 24" 16:10 for coding.

That's my long two cents.

 

[Ploki]

If you read his post, he is talking about buying a Mac for general use and wants to know if he can play some games on it.

The post has nothing to do with purchasing a dedicated gaming machine.

yeah i just mean most of his questions related to gaming.
might as well buy a cheaper mac and a gaming machine tho

 

[F-Train]

Do you need 16gb? I would say yes. With just a few applications open I can see it using between 4-6gb. I feel it's just a better minimum these days to go for 16gb. No one optimizes code anymore and the bloat is real.

If one has an immediate need for 16GB of RAM, or anticipates a need in the near future, I think that it is best to purchase a mini with 16GB preinstalled. Doing it oneself doesn’t save enough money to make it worth the hassle or the risk. It is a different matter if we are talking about 32GB of RAM, which I have myself, where the saving from doing it oneself is significant.

However, there is an argument for waiting, and installing 16GB of RAM oneself down the road, if there is no immediate need and the additional US$200 cost is an issue. Given a choice, as a matter of budget, between the i7 processor and 16GB of RAM, and given my own needs, I would choose the processor and install more RAM when funds are available. I can’t change out the processor, but I can add RAM.

I have owned both 2018 i5 and i7 minis with 8GB of RAM. This works fine for general use, and indeed for hobbyist use of applications like Lightroom, Photoshop, Final Cut Pro X and Logic. Also, Activity Monitor data on RAM use is misleading. The mini will use as much RAM as is available. With 8GB of RAM, the computer will use 6GB+ with a few applications open. With 16GB of RAM, it may well use over 8GB for the same applications. This does not mean that 8GB is inadequate. It just means that the mini is using what’s available.

I believe that for most people, an i5 mini with 8GB of RAM and the integrated graphics will work just fine, including for things like ordinary photo and video processing. That is not speculation on my part. I’ve done it and tested it, and indeed there are a few threads in this forum in which I’ve posted about my experience with that configuration. To the extent that we are now at a “consensus” that everybody, except for the most mundane tasks, needs an i7 and 16GB of RAM and dedicated graphics, in my view the consensus is just plain wrong.

 

[Spectrum]

...

Unfortunately not. The subpixel rendering on or off makes little difference to fonts in preview. The engine is just terrible for some reason. It looks as if the screen isn't in focus. Adobe Reader is much clearer. Unfortunately I have other apps that use PDFkit, so my workaround sorts out the rendering system wide.

 

[Szcziggy]

I believe that for most people, an i5 mini with 8GB of RAM and the integrated graphics will work just fine, including for things like ordinary photo and video processing. That is not speculation on my part. I’ve done it and tested it, and indeed there are a few threads in this forum in which I’ve posted about my experience with that configuration. To the extent that we are now at a “consensus” that everybody, except for the most mundane tasks, needs an i7 and 16GB of RAM and dedicated graphics, in my view the consensus is just plain wrong.

Can confirm this. I never felt short of CPU power with those tasks. I think that for most people the i7 is just over the top. The i5 base model was my sweet spot and I think would be for most people, too. It has 6 cores and 256GB storage at a "reasonable" (in Apple terms) prize point.

 

[BlandUsername]

Can confirm this. I never felt short of CPU power with those tasks. I think that for most people the i7 is just over the top. The i5 base model was my sweet spot and I think would be for most people, too. It has 6 cores and 256GB storage at a "reasonable" (in Apple terms) prize point.

I looked at it that way also, except I added the RAM right away for my VMware install. Very nice to have 8GB for the Mini and 8GB for the VM with both on the flash. You might think its pricey that way, but I priced a Dell mini business computer similarly built and price was about the same, and the mini at least is OSX

 

[apolloa]

There’s a lot of middle ground there. Clearly some units have issues with the T2. Ive had two crashes I believe caused by it, but it went for a while without any and then two in reasonably close time frame.

If you want to play games I don’t think this is the machine for you.

That’s not too bad having two crashes. And your wrong about gaming, all you need is an EGPU and it can game as well as any PC, it can run an EGPU with an RTX 2080 if you so whish and have bonkers speed and resolution.

Here is a thread on using the mini with an external video card. So far, it has over 33,000 views. Not one of the 431 posts talks about an external card crashing the mini: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/external-gpu-egpu-resources.2154653/

If you make your decisions based on giving equal weight to everything said in Internet forums, you will never purchase any computer of any brand.
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I know about that thread but haven’t seen that post so thanks for pointing it out, but I doubt I’ll get a LG 5K monitor so I doubt that issue will affect me, I hope?

I want a monitor with speakers built in.

I just wondered if the i5 was alright for older games? I see it as running cooler then the i7?
Did you run your EGPU and play games on the i5? I sant remember if you did or not?
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buying a mac for games is not really the best decision one can make.
a medium tower with a GPU will be cheaper.
Why do you need a mac?

no, i7 doesn't overheat under load.
Yes i5 would be fine for games.
I don't know about eGPU but i had no T2 related crashes on my 2018 mini.

Why do I need a Mac? Because they are reliable well built and last for years and better then a PC. And I gave up building them years ago... I worked in IT and have built hundreds of computers...

And a Mac has been proven time and time and time and time and time again it’s perfectly capable of playing games. Plus all you need is a EGPU and you can have a Mac that can challenge some very expensive games machines, and that includes the Mac Mini..

Why is their this stigma surrounding Mac and games? Theirs some FUD right there..

Ok perhaps a better question would be how well would an i5 mini run Cinema 4D? As I said as a hobby. Unless you can get freebie restricted versions of cut down Maya or 3DS Max these days?

 

[Szcziggy]

I just wondered if the i5 was alright for older games? I see it as running cooler then the i7?
Did you run your EGPU and play games on the i5? I sant remember if you did or not?

I think that the i5 is capable of running more modern games as well. The bootle neck would be the GPU but as you mentioned a eGPU solves this

 

[mamcx]

I have a i5 * 6 cores/16GB/512Gb config.

I'm a developer, and run Xcode, visual studio Mac, IntelliJ, SublimeText, Visual Studio Code, Docker, Sql Server, Postgres, Safari, Firefox Developer Edition, Terminal with 4 long-running process (with .net, python, rust), iOS emulator, Android Emulator.... plus utils like Skype...

All at the same time.

Is fine.

------
P.D: The only complains I have with the mini: Wish storage/ram were cheaper, and a better graphic card for my ocasional games.

 

[Ploki]

I just wondered if the i5 was alright for older games? I see it as running cooler then the i7?

i7 doesnt overheat. I doubt that i5 under load will run all that cooler.

Why do I need a Mac? Because they are reliable well built and last for years and better then a PC. And I gave up building them years ago... I works in IT and have built hundreds of computers...

And a Mac has been proven time and time and time and time and time again it’s perefectlt capable of playing games. Plus all you need is a GPU and you can have a Mac that can challenge some very expensive games machines, but including the Mac Mini..

Why is their this stereotype surrounding Mac and games? Theirs some FUD right there..

Oh nevermind then, seems that you know what you're doing.
You need some tinkering to get eGPUs working in Windows or nvidia in macos in but you should be ok

I have a i5 * 6 cores/16GB/512Gb config.

P.D: The only complains I have with the mini: Wish storage/ram were cheaper, and a better graphic card for my ocasional games.

RAM is cheap.
But I just discovered i don't have a security torx 6 at home, so my cheap 32GB of RAM is on top of the mini doing nothing till i pick one up.

 

[F-Train]

I just wondered if the i5 was alright for older games? I see it as running cooler then the i7?

Did you run your EGPU and play games on the i5? I sant remember if you did or not?

I used the i5 and an RX 590, which is a somewhat updated RX 580, with X-Plane 11. As you may know, X-Plane is very demanding of both CPUs and GPUs. I thought that the i5/590 handled X-Plane fine provided that I stayed clear of areas (e.g. Manhattan) that are highly detailed graphically, and therefore hard on X-Plane performance even on very strong computer systems.

For a number of reasons, unrelated to games, I now have an i7 and an RX Vega 56. The performance increase in X-Plane is noticeable, but I don’t think that I can pinpoint how much that has to do with the i7 and how much the Vega GPU.

On the question of CPU temperature, I am fine with the i7 temperatures that I’m getting, as reported by Intel’s Power Gadget. There are people who claim that the Intel/Apple engineers don’t know what they are doing and that the i7 CPUs will have a short lifespan. Personally, I have more faith in the engineers than in forum commenters, and in any event I have AppleCare+
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You need some tinkering to get eGPUs working in Windows or nvidia in macos in but you should be ok

An AMD external video card plus Boot Camp works fine with the mini. There is no tinkering required. See the video in post #34 above for a demonstration. This is contrary to statements on certain Apple support pages and apparently not true of Mac laptops. However, it is clear at this point that an AMD card plus Boot Camp works with the mini on a plug and play basis.

It is not currently possible to use Nvidia video cards. However, there are some posts in the last couple of pages of the eGPU thread that I mentioned earlier about statements from Nvidia support staff to the effect that Mojave support for Nvidia cards is coming.

 

[Ploki]

An AMD external video card plus Boot Camp works fine with the mini. There is no tinkering required. See the video in post #34 above for a demonstration. This is contrary to statements on certain Apple support pages and apparently not true of Mac laptops. However, it is clear at this point that an AMD card plus Boot Camp works with the mini on a plug and play basis.

Thanks!
I'm short on eGPU cash right now tho, fudged everything on the two macs. but good to know for future... That GTA V has been waiting for me a LONG TIME.

 

[F-Train]

Thanks!
I'm short on eGPU cash right now tho, fudged everything on the two macs. but good to know for future... That GTA V has been waiting for me a LONG TIME.

Yes, this is good news. In addition to 9 to 5 Mac, which in the last month has published three articles and three videos on using an eGPU with Boot Camp on a mini, a number of participants in the long thread on eGPUs have confirmed that they are doing it themselves, apparently on a plug and play basis.