Mac Mini is now $800....

[LeeW]

What I don't like is the 128GB and soldered SSD on the motherboard board. If it fails, it's a paperweight.

Ok, but this is the case for every device that has soldered SSD, it's really not just Apple, there are few laptops today that have upgradeable components under the hood. Especially in the ultrabook style which is the most popular.

Are you ok then with a device that has the RAM and CPU soldered on? They all have the potential to fail.

The cost of replacing the mainboard in the MM will be at a more reasonable albeit still relatively expensive repair than a MBP for example.

 

[blairh]

They really were, and with good reason, just like I have been sitting in 2018 waiting for my new MM to arrive and watching all these discussions, I was doing the same in 2014 with the previous device. And the criticism was flowing much more than it was today in terms of price and spec. And with good reason.

People are going to complain regardless. I think it's impossible to push against the fact that the consumer benefitted from a $500 Mac. If you or others didn't like what it offered, that's fine. But I think Apple could have and should have offered a new Mini at this price point. They still sell that awful MBA for $1,000.

 

[Smashmax]

People are going to complain regardless. I think it's impossible to push against the fact that the consumer benefitted from a $500 Mac. If you or others didn't like what it offered, that's fine. But I think Apple could have and should have offered a new Mini at this price point. They still sell that awful MBA for $1,000.

Apple knows WAY more than you do.

You are on the polar opposite end of the spectrum when compared to Apple and selling products.

 

[MRrainer]

The SSD should not fail. I would suggest Apple Care and if it hasn't failed in those three years, it will run till the end unless you have a use-case that tears through its DWPD/TWB at multiples of the usual values.

Though, of course, Apple doesn't give DWPD/TBW for its SSDs, AFAIK.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

Ok, but this is the case for every device that has soldered SSD, it's really not just Apple, there are few laptops today that have upgradeable components under the hood. Especially in the ultrabook style which is the most popular.

Are you ok then with a device that has the RAM and CPU soldered on? They all have the potential to fail.

The cost of replacing the mainboard in the MM will be at a more reasonable albeit still relatively expensive repair than a MBP for example.

As someone who likes to build my own PC's, nope I don't own one and won't buy any device with those constraints.

 

[ipponrg]

People are going to complain regardless. I think it's impossible to push against the fact that the consumer benefitted from a $500 Mac. If you or others didn't like what it offered, that's fine. But I think Apple could have and should have offered a new Mini at this price point. They still sell that awful MBA for $1,000.

When I look at the price point for the Mac mini and the components it has in there, I don't think they're targeting the old mac mini users. It seems to be cannibalizing base model iMacs. I would've picked one of these up for a Plex server easy at $500.

I'm disappointed of the price point, but it is what is. We'll see how this plays out for them in the next few years.

 

[blairh]

Apple knows WAY more than you do.

You are on the polar opposite end of the spectrum when compared to Apple and selling products.

I love this retort. It's incredibly lazy and pointless. You can say this to anyone objecting to anything Apple does. Congrats.

 

[OLDGUYWITHAHIFI]

I was really excited watching the keynote and then they showed a picture of the new Mini, and then I noticed the base specs. 128gb in this day and age is insulting. Just the OS, and some programs can chew up a fair amount of space. Add some music and photos and it's full.

128gb plus the cloud may be fine for some people but I think they would be the minority. The most frustrating part is Apple is still offering 128gb in a DESKTOP!

I don't know about anyone else, but I use a desktop as my main computer or home base if you will. They should have started with 256gb. It's not like they are not still making a ton of money by gouging us on memory and storage upgrades.

 

[plucky duck]

If you agree to what's being offered on the table, then you're basically acknowledging their sales and marketing tactics are within reason and they will continue to work in that direction and perhaps test the boundaries further during the next roll out. If you're OK with that, then everyone's happy. If you're not OK with that, then definitely vote with your wallet.

What's essentially has happened here is that the base config is no more, and they start everybody who buys into a Mac Mini at the mid tier level.

 

[Smashmax]

I love this retort. It's incredibly lazy and pointless. You can say this to anyone objecting to anything Apple does. Congrats.

It’s not lazy nor pointless. I already explained that the price point is great for what you get and that the storage size is perfectly fine for many people.

You keep complaining as if you know more than all the people who are actually buying the product, you do not. Your complaints are unwarranted, Apple did not make a mistake, they did exactly what they should have. You are wrong, dead wrong.
[doublepost=1542522980][/doublepost]

I was really excited watching the keynote and then they showed a picture of the new Mini, and then I noticed the base specs. 128gb in this day and age is insulting. Just the OS, and some programs can chew up a fair amount of space. Add some music and photos and it's full.

128gb plus the cloud may be fine for some people but I think they would be the minority. The most frustrating part is Apple is still offering 128gb in a DESKTOP!

I don't know about anyone else, but I use a desktop as my main computer or home base if you will. They should have started with 256gb. It's not like they are not still making a ton of money by gouging us on memory and storage upgrades.

Again with this same ignorance.

I have what you stated, the OS, some programs, and 15 years worth of pictures which is about 15 gigs. With all of those pictures on the computer it equals 48gigs, leaving 73 free.

I use my computer for both personal and business. 128GB is plenty for a huge amount of people. If you are going to be saving so many movies or songs on a desktop computer, simply opt for a larger drive. But there is no reason why we should have to pay for one when we don’t need or want it.
[doublepost=1542523205][/doublepost]

If you agree to what's being offered on the table, then you're basically acknowledging their sales and marketing tactics are within reason and they will continue to work in that direction and perhaps test the boundaries further during the next roll out. If you're OK with that, then everyone's happy. If you're not OK with that, then definitely vote with your wallet.

What's essentially has happened here is that the base config is no more, and they start everybody who buys into a Mac Mini at the mid tier level.

I paid $2,500 for my first Apple computer around 32 years ago, $800 today for what you get in the new Mini is absolutely awesome.

 

[plucky duck]

It’s not lazy nor pointless. I already explained that the price point is great for what you get and that the storage size is perfectly fine for many people.

You keep complaining as if you know more than all the people who are actually buying the product, you do not. Your complaints are unwarranted, Apple did not make a mistake, they did exactly what they should have. You are wrong, dead wrong.
[doublepost=1542522980][/doublepost]
Again with this same ignorance.

I have what you stated, the OS, some programs, and 15 years worth of pictures which is about 15 gigs. With all of those pictures on the computer it equals 48gigs, leaving 73 free.

I use my computer for both personal and business. 128GB is plenty for a huge amount of people. If you are going to be saving so many movies or songs on a desktop computer, simply opt for a larger drive. But there is no reason why we should have to pay for one when we don’t need or want it.
[doublepost=1542523205][/doublepost]
I paid $2,500 for my first Apple computer around 32 years ago, $800 today for what you get in the new Mini is absolutely awesome.

For sure, computer prices back in the days were off the charts! Technology in laptops were about a generation behind their desktop counterparts, yet costing more than a desktop of that time period, crazy right??

Cost in real dollar terms has indeed gone down over time, computer itself is a commodity than many people have access to at the various price points, it may or may not be a Mac but the market is definitely open to many.

As a business model, they're in the business to profit, to see how they can gain the most by providing the minimal that's deemed widely accepted by the masses, in this case its 128GB storage for the Mini.

 

[rmoliv]

Why would anyone spend more than $2K when with that money one can buy say an iMac with a discrete GPU and better overall specs? To buy a Mac mini I would have to buy a keyboard, trackpad/mouse and monitor. I guess I will pass this one. A lower price point at about $500 would make much more sense. Can anyone justify the bump in price? Sorry for the rant...

 

[LeeW]

People are going to complain regardless. I think it's impossible to push against the fact that the consumer benefitted from a $500 Mac. If you or others didn't like what it offered, that's fine. But I think Apple could have and should have offered a new Mini at this price point. They still sell that awful MBA for $1,000.

I agree, there is a market for a $500 Mac, but nothing can change the fact Apple is not interested in that segment of the market anymore and have made that clear. They are focussing on other users.

Will they loose customers by not having that entry level MM? Probably but it's their decision to make and accept whatever the consequences of that action are.
[doublepost=1542537691][/doublepost]

Why would anyone spend more than $2K when with that money one can buy say an iMac with a discrete GPU and better overall specs? To buy a Mac mini I would have to buy a keyboard, trackpad/mouse and monitor.

Many of us don't want an AIO, prefer two monitors, already have them as well as the keyboard and mouse. Don't need a discrete GPU for our workflow and so on.

I could have an external GPU if I really needed it, today I don't but the option is there, yes it's more cost but then I am not stuck with that same internal dPGU for the life of the machine.

Applecare is half the price of an iMac or MBP. It will cost me less than $100 to replace a monitor, out of warranty on an iMac it's what? $600 possibly more. I could get the whole logic board replaced for that money out of warranty on the 2018 MM and have change.

 

[hans1972]

Well it's been $500 for the past 4 years. That's the point.
[doublepost=1542497018][/doublepost]
My pushback is that there will always be a market for a desktop Mac at $500. If it were to exist. But now it no longer does. iOS devices are not desktops.

Most consumers wanting to switch from Windows to a Mac, are notebook users. The number of people (except gamers) who are using desktops is small and dwindling.

A lot of people buying the Mac Mini were iOS developers who just needed the cheapest Mac possible to run Xcode without a hassle. They are now forced to pay at least $800. Half of new Mac users are from China, and I would not be surprised if many of these are iOS developers.

Another factor worth considering, is that having a cheap Mac, also steals sales from more expensive Macs. If the Mac Mini is a great and cheap Mac, why would anyone spend a lot of money on iMacs, iMac Pros and Mac Pros?
[doublepost=1542552466][/doublepost]

128gb plus the cloud may be fine for some people but I think they would be the minority. The most frustrating part is Apple is still offering 128gb in a DESKTOP!

Why do the base model has to fit a majority? Apple offers different configuration and different models for this very reason.

Lots of people with a professional line of work would not store anything important locally, or only locally, because it is a risk in case of failure or theft, or because of security.

In addition, having services like iCloud Photo Library and Apple Music, reduces the need for local storage for a lot of users.

Some people like to have everything stored on their main computer but there are other ways to do it. For a lot of them 128Gb is enough. Also the future direction seems to me more and more cloud, so I would think that the need for local storage will not increase for a lot of people in the next 5 years.

 

[blairh]

Most consumers wanting to switch from Windows to a Mac, are notebook users. The number of people (except gamers) who are using desktops is small and dwindling.

A lot of people buying the Mac Mini were iOS developers who just needed the cheapest Mac possible to run Xcode without a hassle. They are now forced to pay at least $800. Half of new Mac users are from China, and I would not be surprised if many of these are iOS developers.

Another factor worth considering, is that having a cheap Mac, also steals sales from more expensive Macs. If the Mac Mini is a great and cheap Mac, why would anyone spend a lot of money on iMacs, iMac Pros and Mac Pros?
[doublepost=1542552466][/doublepost]

Why do the base model has to fit a majority? Apple offers different configuration and different models for this very reason.

Lots of people with a professional line of work would not store anything important locally, or only locally, because it is a risk in case of failure or theft, or because of security.

In addition, having services like iCloud Photo Library and Apple Music, reduces the need for local storage for a lot of users.

Some people like to have everything stored on their main computer but there are other ways to do it. For a lot of them 128Gb is enough. Also the future direction seems to me more and more cloud, so I would think that the need for local storage will not increase for a lot of people in the next 5 years.

There is still a huge audience for desktops. An affordable Mini would make total sense for countless people. Apple's move with the new Mini shows they clearly don't care about this and only they have the specific reasons why.

Apple had a $500 Mini for the last 4 years. Now it's gone. If having such a cheap Mini was an issue for Apple, it wouldn't have lasted 4 years.

 

[LeeW]

Apple had a $500 Mini for the last 4 years. Now it's gone. If having such a cheap Mini was an issue for Apple, it wouldn't have lasted 4 years.

What they have had for the last 4 years is a Mac Mini that came in various configurations, that does not tell us the base configuration was selling in sufficient numbers to justify its existence in 2018.

The trashcan has been in existence for 5 years now, struggling to believe it's selling in any significant numbers in 2018. Existing only because there is nothing to replace it yet and they have a stock pile to get through.

Anyway, circular thread now, always coming back to the same point that is never going to result in a $500 MM being available for sale.

 

[PJivan]

Off course, last entry level mac mini was a trojan horse for educations, aimed to showcase that even on mac you can have an horrible experience. That dual core and 5400rpm mechanical drive were a hell of a combo!

 

[LeeW]

That dual core and 5400rpm mechanical drive were a hell of a combo!

Twice people that I have recommended go down the Mac route in recent years have done what I told them not to do, buy that $499 MM. And both jumped back off within a week citing a horrible experience, not with macOS, they loved it, with performance.

Switchers don't want worse performance than they currently have on their PC, 9/10 that is exactly what they will get.

 

[theluggage]

In 2012 the entry dual core Mini was $600, 4GB RAM and a painfully slow 5400RPM 500GB hard drive.

My mistake on the price - but still $200 less than $800. In 2012 you wouldn't have expected SSD as standard. Doubling the RAM over 6 years wouldn't be unexpected either.

I'm not sure how one can't at least acknowledge that the Mini is now a completely different machine versus previous years.

Only in that they've gone for desktop processors rather than mobile - but then desktop processors are significantly cheaper in terms of bangs-per-buck than mobile ones - plus Apple have gone for a downmarket i3 rather than the mid-market i5. Yup - its got 4 cores but the *desktop* i3s all start at 4 cores now - and 6 for the desktop i5s. One might almost think that Apple went for the 4-core i3 purely to justify a higher "price point" for 6 cores.

From Intel's Ark site, the i3-8100 in the Mini is $117 whereas the nearest 2018 equivalents to the mobile, low-power i5 -3210M in the 2012 would be something like the i5-8210Y ($281) or the i5-8250U ($297). Now, those prices are probably nothing like what a large customer like Apple actually pays, so I'm not going to play the silly "add up the published prices of the parts" game, but is reasonable to assume that they give an indication of the relative costs.

So, no, the $800 Mini not some new "pro" class of machine - its specs are thoroughly mediocre for a 2018 machine with desktop processors and its quite probably cheaper to build than the 2012. The GPU is barely adequate for driving modern screens using *2D* apps - from other threads, it sounds like you need a RAM upgrade to run a pair of scaled-mode 4ks smoothly because of the shared VRAM - and the 128GB HD, however fast, is definitely on the skimpy side if you're installing a couple of pro apps or running a VM. The $1099 i5 model is a bit more like it (or call it $1299 by the time you've added 16GB RAM).

You can have my mechanical keyboard when you pry it from my cold dead hands!

Actually, your mechanical keyboard will probably work fine with an iPad via a USB-C-to-A adapter. The problem with the iPad is the lack of mouse/trackpad support: touch screens are great for some applications but useless for others.

 

[harriska2]

Why would anyone spend more than $2K when with that money one can buy say an iMac with a discrete GPU and better overall specs? To buy a Mac mini I would have to buy a keyboard, trackpad/mouse and monitor. I guess I will pass this one. A lower price point at about $500 would make much more sense. Can anyone justify the bump in price? Sorry for the rant...

Because I can’t get used to the mac’s keyboard or mouse and I have a 4k monitor. I plan to use a 15 year old usb mouse and keyboard that I really like and remap keys so that my pc brain can move to macos. I’ve been copy/pasting with ctrl c/v for too many years.

 

[pl1984]

If they did that, they would likely have to swap out the SSD for a spinning HD and that would slow down the user experience - at least it does on the Late 2014 model. At any rate, Apple would have to change something to make the price difference worth choosing the current $799 model.

Worst case scenario.. it's just going to take us a little longer to save up for the new model. That's really all it boils down to.

I can purchase a retail 256GB SATA SSD for $35.00. Surely Apple can buy that same capacity in bulk for half that cost.

 

[harriska2]

There is still a huge audience for desktops. An affordable Mini would make total sense for countless people. Apple's move with the new Mini shows they clearly don't care about this and only they have the specific reasons why.

Apple had a $500 Mini for the last 4 years. Now it's gone. If having such a cheap Mini was an issue for Apple, it wouldn't have lasted 4 years.

The difference between a 2014 spinning hard drive $500 machine and 2018 ssd $800 machine is likely to be startling. When we put a 256 ssd into our 2010 mac mini I was shocked at how different it was. That 2010 is now loading mojave. I’m learning macos for the first time in over 30 years with computers. It’s fun and a bit rejuvenating. Thank goodness my husband has a long background with all things Apple.

 

[pl1984]

Ok, but this is the case for every device that has soldered SSD, it's really not just Apple, there are few laptops today that have upgradeable components under the hood. Especially in the ultrabook style which is the most popular.

Are you ok then with a device that has the RAM and CPU soldered on? They all have the potential to fail.

The cost of replacing the mainboard in the MM will be at a more reasonable albeit still relatively expensive repair than a MBP for example.

It's understandable RAM and disk is soldered onto the motherboard for mobile devices, especially ultrabook devices, due to space and weight constraints. Those constraints are not nearly as applicable for desktop systems.

 

[294307]

I can purchase a retail 256GB SATA SSD for $35.00. Surely Apple can buy that same capacity in bulk for half that cost.

Yes, they are cheaper but they are also slower. And that's why they don't use them.

 

[LeeW]

It's understandable RAM and disk is soldered onto the motherboard for mobile devices, especially ultrabook devices, due to space and weight constraints. Those constraints are not nearly as applicable for desktop systems.

Agreed, the person I was responding to was making the point it's a paperweight if the SSD or Ram fails, that's the case for more than less devices these days, socketed components will become less and less of a 'feature' in the future in all but what I would consider true desktop machines, which I don't consider the MM to be.