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aiyaaabatt

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Aug 25, 2013
391
64
What kind of temps are you guys getting? Feel free to share your system specs and what kind of temps you're seeing.

I've got the M4 Pro (14C) with 64GB ram and 1TB SSD. With an ambient temp of 23C, I'm getting around 39-40C idle, and 82C max temp (Die 1 is my hottest Die) when running Cinebench R23 CPU multicore (10 min). Using TG Pro to monitor temps.
 
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jjl1579

macrumors newbie
Dec 9, 2023
4
7
on your TG Pro, did you get to max fan speed during the test? On my m2 mini Pro 12 core, I found the best tgpro setting was on Automax. seems to keep things cooler without always maxing out the fan. when the fan is on max speed, can you hear it, I hardly hear my M2 Mini Pro at max 5000 rpm. I get about the same temp as you at idle
 

aiyaaabatt

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Aug 25, 2013
391
64
During Cinebench R23 CPU multicore test, using TG Pro (system fan settings) my max fan speed reached about 3150 RPM, and I can definitely hear it.
 

mikeboss

macrumors 68000
Aug 13, 2009
1,546
866
switzerland
I got my Mac mini M4 (non-Pro) today and I'm considering returning it. I ran a re-encode (H.264 -> H.265, using the CPUs, not VideoToolbox) and the fan ramped up to about 2100 RPM (idle is 1000 RPM). after 10-15 minutes the CPUs started to throttle. max. clock speed of the P-cores is 4464 MHz. I saw them drop to approximately 3300 MHz at one point! in the end the clock settled at around 3800 MHz. I never saw this (CPU throttling or the fan ramping up) with Mac mini M1 or M2 (also non-Pro). they should've kept the design of Mac mini (and its cooling system) as it was.
 

waloshin

macrumors 68040
Oct 9, 2008
3,505
270
Conebench is there to push your machine harder than you likely ever will. 83 Celsius is nothing compared to Intel 13790k, 13900k easily hitting 100 without liquid cooling…
 

AAPLGeek

macrumors 6502a
Nov 12, 2009
736
2,281
I got my Mac mini M4 (non-Pro) today and I'm considering returning it. I ran a re-encode (H.264 -> H.265, using the CPUs, not VideoToolbox) and the fan ramped up to about 2100 RPM (idle is 1000 RPM). after 10-15 minutes the CPUs started to throttle. max. clock speed of the P-cores is 4464 MHz. I saw them drop to approximately 3300 MHz at one point! in the end the clock settled at around 3800 MHz. I never saw this (CPU throttling or the fan ramping up) with Mac mini M1 or M2 (also non-Pro). they should've kept the design of Mac mini (and its cooling system) as it was.

What are you ambient temps?
 

AAPLGeek

macrumors 6502a
Nov 12, 2009
736
2,281
I got my Mac mini M4 (non-Pro) today and I'm considering returning it. I ran a re-encode (H.264 -> H.265, using the CPUs, not VideoToolbox) and the fan ramped up to about 2100 RPM (idle is 1000 RPM). after 10-15 minutes the CPUs started to throttle. max. clock speed of the P-cores is 4464 MHz. I saw them drop to approximately 3300 MHz at one point! in the end the clock settled at around 3800 MHz. I never saw this (CPU throttling or the fan ramping up) with Mac mini M1 or M2 (also non-Pro). they should've kept the design of Mac mini (and its cooling system) as it was.

Have you tested this under the low power mode? It would likely be slower, but I'm wondering how much. And if the fans ramp up at all.
 

Mitohondri

macrumors newbie
Nov 15, 2024
3
2
I think the issue has something to do with the GPU and not the CPU on the SoC. If we take a look at the Cinebench test, the SoC is under 98% utilisation and tops at 90 C.

While World of Warcraft is at 55% utilisation but goes over 100 C, while Diablo 3 is at 47% and tops to 89 C

WoW temperatures are always over 100 C no matter if the resolution is 4K, 1440p or 1080p

Will try to see other games today
 
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Mitohondri

macrumors newbie
Nov 15, 2024
3
2
Today i got a suggestion from reedit, to cap fps in wow. So I did, and that made temperatures in WoW not go above 75 C.

For me personally, this resolved my issues with temperatures, since i dont have any problems in any other games or workloads.

Low power mode is trash, to be honest. the performance in every aspect is cut 80%. I would never use it
 

AAPLGeek

macrumors 6502a
Nov 12, 2009
736
2,281
I sure did! power efficiency in Low Power Mode is insane, the SoC consumes less than 7 Watts during HandBrake re-encode. here's the Geekbench score: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/8799758
the fan stays at 1'000 RPM all the time.

That's great, but how much slower is the handbrake re-encode? If it's not much, I think LPM could be an effective way of handling sustained activity while minimizing the fan noise.

BTW, it's odd that your single core score is effectively halved in LPM, while some others here have reported only ~15% loss. See here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/geekbench-post-em-up-how-fast-is-your-mini.2442821/
 
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mikeboss

macrumors 68000
Aug 13, 2009
1,546
866
switzerland
That's great, but how much slower is the handbrake re-encode? If it's not much, I think LPM could be an effective way of handling sustained activity while minimizing the fan noise.

BTW, it's odd that your single core score is effectively halved in LPM, while some others here have reported only ~15% loss. See here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/geekbench-post-em-up-how-fast-is-your-mini.2442821/

the CPU (M4) running in Low Power Mode delivers about 55% of the possible speed.

the scores posted are from M4 Pro Mac minis. mine's an M4 (non-Pro).
 

Easttime

macrumors 6502a
Jun 17, 2015
708
506
Since getting the M4 iStat Menus is only showing SSD temp, not CPU or GPU. Anyone else seeing that?

UPDATE: I see iStat Menus is up to version 7, paid upgrade on Apple Store. I installed it, showed all the sensors after I installed their helper app. All good, nice upgrade.
 
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blufrog

macrumors regular
Dec 19, 2014
205
89
Max Tech on YT did some thermal testing, and the CPU maxed out around 105 deg. C. It showed signs of throttling at this point, but not much.

I think we are in an era where maximum performance is not constant, but floats around some nominal value.

The latest AMD processors are thermal-limited to 100 deg. C and designed to run at the thermal limit rather than a clock speed limit. The "max clock" is 4.8 GHz, but you won't necessarily get that under sustained load.

I suspect Apple are probably doing something similar - 4.4 GHz "max clock" with the long-term SUSTAINED clock speed being a bit lower.

We are at a point with silicon in general where we are hitting physical limits. Until we can find better solutions to thermal management, or find some way to reduce heat generation, this will be the new behavior of high-end processors for the forseeable future.

It's not bad; just something we aren't used to.

Best way to think about it is burst performance, and sustained performance. We seem able to get burst performance for around 10-15 minutes before throttling occurs. Form factor matters here too, and the Mini seems the best so far. I expect this to improve even further with the Studio.

I'm actually debating if there are ways to improve the thermals without modifying the case, such as raising the computer off the desk on a cold plate, and helping the seperation of the exhaust air from the inlet air with baffles, to help prevent warm-air recirculation.

The front ~3/4 of the circumference appears to be the inlet air, with the exhaust air coming out the back ~1/4. That means in a typical home office, warm air gets blasted at the wall, and reflected back towards the inlet.
 
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!!!

macrumors 6502a
Aug 5, 2013
723
997
The latest AMD processors are thermal-limited to 100 deg. C and designed to run at the thermal limit rather than a clock speed limit.
This has been the case for over a decade.
Until we can find better solutions to thermal management
I heard the M4 maxes out at something like 45W? The old mini could handle about 65W while staying silent. This isn't some sort of engineering limit, it's Apple going straight back to being obsessed over making the smallest possible computer. I'm sure the old form factor could have handled all the heat from the M4 without making noise. But no. Straight back to the awful Intel mini experience of immediate throttling and noisy fan.
 

turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
17,459
40,310
This isn't some sort of engineering limit, it's Apple going straight back to being obsessed over making the smallest possible computer. I'm sure the old form factor could have handled all the heat from the M4 without making noise. But no. Straight back to the awful Intel mini experience of immediate throttling and noisy fan.

Yep -- exactly what I expected when I saw the "new! redesigned! super small!" rumors

No idea why people were excited about making an already really small computer ... even smaller
 
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Ray2

macrumors 65816
Jul 8, 2014
1,175
494
Why I feel more comfortable waiting for the next Studio and taking a pass on the mini. I like Macs that respect my work environment. It’s worth paying for an over spec'd Mac for me.
 
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