Mac mini vs. AppleTV

[Passante]

Before AppleTV was out I set up a Core Solo Mac mini as a dedicated media server using FrontRow as GUI. I have an ext drive that stores my media along with a backup drive. I taught my main A/V remote all the Apple remote commands.

It seems to me there is no real difference between this kind of set up and AppleTV. Or am I wrong? I've only used AppleTV for a few seconds in the store so if I'm missing something please tell what added benefit I'd get by using AppleTV instead.

The biggest difference is about $200 plus the cost of the wireless keyboard and mouse. There is no doubt that the mini is much more flexible than AppleTV. But for just viewing video content (including eyeTV recorded stuff0 and pictures nothing is simpler or cheaper than AppleTV. Plus my wife can use it when I'm not there.

 

[ftaok]

Correct, my TV is 1366x768. I think it only appears blurry because the pixels are so much bigger than a computer display. It's not bad though. The mini does not have the option for 1366x768.

Fair enough. I was just pointing out the fact that LCDs tend to look "fuzzy" when not used at their native resolution. This is because the computer has to scale the information to fit the odd number of pixels. In any case, it's a moot point since the mini seems unable to output 768p.

I suppose I could buy a copy of EyeTV software if Miglia's isn't good enough. Hopefully it will be.

I'm not sure if the new Miglia device is supported by EyeTV. I know their older devices are, but this new one is sort stuck in EyeTV limbo.

I've considered the HDHomeRun. Not sure how it would perform over Ethernet. Unfortunately I got one of the first new Airport Extremes which does not have gigabyte ethernet. Would that have an effect?

I don't have one of these, but I have read where people have connected them to a standard 10/100 router and HD streams work fine, even using 11g.

Now, maybe streaming 2 HD feeds at 1080i on 11g will choke the network ...

ft

 

[ftaok]

The biggest difference is about $200 plus the cost of the wireless keyboard and mouse. There is no doubt that the mini is much more flexible than AppleTV. But for just viewing video content (including eyeTV recorded stuff0 and pictures nothing is simpler or cheaper than AppleTV. Plus my wife can use it when I'm not there.

Personally, I think the aTV is one slick device. I would already have one, except for 2 things.

1. DVDs ripped as Video_TS folders are not supported. Sure, I could convert to MPEG-4 or h.264, but that takes up time and computing resources to convert. Support for VIDEO_TS MPEG-2 right out of the box would have been great.

2. Native HD files recorded from EyeTV or other devices are not supported. Again, I could convert the file, but it just seems unnecessarily fussy.

I can live with the 720/24p limitation ... well, maybe not. 1080i MPEG-2 support would be the minimum for me. Too many 1080i broadcasters out there.

Maybe rev 2 will address these features.

ft

 

[peeaanuut]

i have a vizio tv and it has both HDMI and a vga port. I plugged the mini into the vga port and it recognized the "monitor" and i had no over/underscan issues. Would I be better to plug it into HDMI or stick with the VGA port or would I run into issues?

Im assuming the mini would recognize the TV as a monitor just as it would with the VGA port but I could be wrong. Am i?

 

[macjonny1]

Personally, I think the aTV is one slick device. I would already have one, except for 2 things.

1. DVDs ripped as Video_TS folders are not supported. Sure, I could convert to MPEG-4 or h.264, but that takes up time and computing resources to convert. Support for VIDEO_TS MPEG-2 right out of the box would have been great.



ft

Another advantage of the mini....I use DVD Assist on my laptop, a program that lets you view video_TS folders on your front row interface.

 

[TuckBodi]

Personally, I think the aTV is one slick device. I would already have one, except for 2 things.

1. DVDs ripped as Video_TS folders are not supported. Sure, I could convert to MPEG-4 or h.264, but that takes up time and computing resources to convert. Support for VIDEO_TS MPEG-2 right out of the box would have been great.

2. Native HD files recorded from EyeTV or other devices are not supported. Again, I could convert the file, but it just seems unnecessarily fussy.

I can live with the 720/24p limitation ... well, maybe not. 1080i MPEG-2 support would be the minimum for me. Too many 1080i broadcasters out there.

Maybe rev 2 will address these features.

ft

#1 is not true as nitoTV allows you to watch Video_TS on the ATV (and ISO's and DVD's on an attached USB DVD player for that matter).

Not sure what format you mean for #2 but I'd be surprised if nitoTV, ATVFiles or the cool Sapphire plugin couldn't handle it.

For EyeTV and 1080i here's a good write-up from the Apple Discussion Boards:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5143313

Here is one way to get high quality HD content onto your AppleTV for little more than buckets full of your time and storage. (There are much more space efficient ways, but this is the easiest to document here.)

Programs Required: EyeTV 2 + ATSC Tuner (for recording HD OTA broadcasts), MPEG Streamclip, JES Deinterlacer, QT Pro

For 1080i Content
1. Record over the air HD broadcast via EyeTV Hybrid or something similar.
2. Using MPEG Streamclip output a QT movie using MotionJPEG or PhotoJPEG as the CODEC. You can also use MPEG Streamclip to scale down to 720i at this step. NOTE: Do Not deinterlace the footage yet!
This step creates a massive new file but the quality is stellar. (Ex. 23gb for one 22min 720p television show.)
3. Taking your newly created monster file, use this as your source file for JES Deinterlacer and choose “Inverse Telecine” as the project. JES Deinterlacer is a great, free tool that allows you to easily do an inverse telecine on many types of footage. This is the best way to convert 30fps footage back to 24fps. 24fps is also a requirement for QT Pro to keep HD footage at HD resolutions when using the Export to AppleTV preset. (I.e. Even if your footage is 720p it will downconvert to SD if the frame rate is anything other than 24fps or 23.98fps.) JES will create another gargantuan file of equal size and quality to your first file, but now it will be in perfect-looking progressive scan, 24fps. More detailed instructions on this tool are available in its help file.
4. Take your 2nd gargantuan file, and compress it via QT Pro using the AppleTV preset and voila, you have a great HD file that is just as good looking as any of the HD trailers on Apple.

 

[ftaok]

Im assuming the mini would recognize the TV as a monitor just as it would with the VGA port but I could be wrong. Am i?

Depends on the TV. Most of the newer TVs are designed with computers in mind. However, there are a few that have flaws like overscan on HDMI and such.

Personally, if you have it working with VGA, why bother changing. Leave good enough alone.

 

[ftaok]

#1 is not true as nitoTV allows you to watch Video_TS on the ATV (and ISO's and DVD's on an attached USB DVD player for that matter).

Maybe I should have been more explicit, but I meant that MPEG-2 and VIDEO_TS aren't supported out of the box. I'm not interested in doing any hacks, no matter how easy. I can't be bothered dealing with possible breaks by Apple. But if others are having success with these hacks and work arounds, more power to them.

Not sure what format you mean for #2 but I'd be surprised if nitoTV, ATVFiles or the cool Sapphire plugin couldn't handle it.

What I mean is that the aTV can't handle 720p/1080i broadcasts that I could record using EyeTV. Of course I could convert it to an aTV supported format, losing time and quality, but that just defeats the purpose.

 

[w8ing4intelmacs]

Maybe I should have been more explicit, but I meant that MPEG-2 and VIDEO_TS aren't supported out of the box. I'm not interested in doing any hacks, no matter how easy. I can't be bothered dealing with possible breaks by Apple. But if others are having success with these hacks and work arounds, more power to them.

What I mean is that the aTV can't handle 720p/1080i broadcasts that I could record using EyeTV. Of course I could convert it to an aTV supported format, losing time and quality, but that just defeats the purpose.

You can set up the eyeTV recording to automatically convert to AppleTV (and it even puts it in iTunes as a TV Show automatically). I've never timed the conversion, but I have my server downstairs and that's all it does.

 

[ftaok]

You can set up the eyeTV recording to automatically convert to AppleTV (and it even puts it in iTunes as a TV Show automatically). I've never timed the conversion, but I have my server downstairs and that's all it does.

This is exactly why I would favor a mini over an aTV. I don't want to spend the time converting standard 720p/1080i MPEG-2 broadcasts to a format that the aTV supports.

No matter how efficient the h264 codec is, the video quality will never be better than the original source, which in this case would be 720p/1080i MPEG-2. Why spend the time converting when hard drive space is so cheap?

ft

 

[Javdogjavdog]

Trying to figure this out.

So I plugged in a VGA cable, which caused some loss in saturation but fixed the overscan issue and rebooting issue.

I am considering a used original Mini very strongly right now and have a free VGA input on my HDTV. I have read all the posts and can't figure out what the consensus is on the following issues.

Does using the VGA cable wash out the color (loss in saturation) as a rule?

Also, what about connecting a Firewire Bluray or HDDVD drive to the mini, will this give true Bluray or DVD quality through the VGA?

I was also wanting to surf the net on the TV, but it sounds like this tends to be blurry as a rule, or does it depend on the TV?

From my experience, a solo chokes on H264 HD clips 720 and up. Can't play 1080 for beans. The duos can do it fine though.

I am also confused on this last point. Can't an iPod play H264 video just fine onto a TV with its TV Out function? Why would it choke a mini?

Jav

 

[ftaok]

I can't answer all of your questions, but I'll take a stab at a couple of them.

Also, what about connecting a Firewire Bluray or HDDVD drive to the mini, will this give true Bluray or DVD quality through the VGA?

Well, since there is currently no compatible BD or HD-DVD drive for the Mac, I'll issue a guess. I would say that over VGA, the BD/HD-DVD movie would be limited to 960x540 due to lack of HDCP handshakes over VGA. I don't think that you can get full 1080p using an analog connection.

Now, since I don't think that any Macs are HDCP compliant, I would guess that a mini would be limited to 960x540 using the DVI connection as well.

I was also wanting to surf the net on the TV, but it sounds like this tends to be blurry as a rule, or does it depend on the TV?

As long as you match the native resolution of the TV, you'll be OK. So yes, it does depend on the TV.

I am also confused on this last point. Can't an iPod play H264 video just fine onto a TV with its TV Out function? Why would it choke a mini?

Because the iPod plays back 640x480 h264 files. The mini would easily handle these files. The h264 files that would choke a mini (e.g. 1920x1080p) would probably melt an iPod.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

If only an ATV would mount/play an ISO. I've built up two XBMC's and for the $ they are great, but ugly/slightly noisy. The ATV would be a much slicker device to have in the cabinet and the lack of fan noise would be nice.

 

[MovieCutter]

I am also confused on this last point. Can't an iPod play H264 video just fine onto a TV with its TV Out function? Why would it choke a mini?

Jav

No all H264 files are created equal

 

[w8ing4intelmacs]

There's the overscan issue. My Mac Mini doesn't play nice with my plasma, but AppleTV works perfectly with it (the plasma). Too bad the new minis don't have hdmi built-in.

 

[timeslip]

No hack, it comes down to a tight integration at an attractive price point. I am finding barely used or like new condition Apple TV's on Craigslist for $200-240 now. (40gb of course).

If you hack the ATV, then it really closes the gap and makes you wonder (at least makes me wonder) which one is really the better buy. I had an Home Theater PC before, and while I loved the resolution I got from it, I would always get complaints from the gf that she did not know how to operate it. I am leaning more towards the Mac Mini if I can swallow the initial price, as I also need a fileserver as well.

 

[Pigumon]

Quite a few months later....

Greetings, I am speaking from the future, 10 months since the last post of this thread.

Anyway, has anyone used one of the simple hacks available for the Apple TV to eliminate the need to convert video formats, enabling the use of TS_Video folders, etc.?

It seems the hack really makes the Apple TV the equal of the mini as far as compatibility, but it's easier to use for non-tech people, cheaper, and will play on any tv.

Just to show where I'm coming from, I have a mac mini 2gHz which can play 720P but frame rates drop significantly (down to 6 fps depending on the scene) when trying to watch 1080P. So I don't really see how a mac mini has better video than apple tv. I guess when looking at photos...