Mac or PC

[Sesshi]

Why do you guys keep stating that WinXP crashes all the time, like it's some universal fact? I usually run my XP work machine 1-2 months between reboots and it never crashes.


I suggest you try a dual core WinXP machine before writing stuff like that.

My view on the "dilemma" presented in the original post is the following:

If WinXP works for you and you don't feel like spending the extra money on a fancy enclosure and better OS, then go for a PC. Simple as that. The fact that WinXP has worked so well for me is one of the reasons that I haven't gone for a desktop Mac yet. That, and the fact that there isn't any reasonably priced mid tower. I was kind of hoping that Jobs would present one today, but I see that I'll have to wait.

Like you, I have no issues with Windows reliability and aside from install issues I don't believe my current main Windows desktops have ever crashed, which is more than I can say for my current main machine, a MBP fitted with an external monitor (although to be fair, the crashing has usually been after I've moved it around and woken/slept it and connected/disconnected the monitor a few times). However Windows is less responsive in multi-app situations. And less productive.

The other issue is that you have to look at the whole machine. A Mac Pro in the way it's designed is not comparable to say taking a Dell example, a Dimension (which in itself is probably better designed/engineered than a machine you throw together yourself). It is a Precision. Spec up one of those and the two aren't that different in terms of price because of the way they're built.

Regarding other posts "Your own powerhouse" is not always necessarily so. You don't build your own to get true professional performance these days - you do it more often than not to get best gaming performance, which is far easier to achieve. I have a dual Opteron 270 machine built from parts at not inconsiderable expense and with plenty of attention to detail, and yet on poking arond inside the Dell Precision (and by inference the Mac Pro) there's a major difference in system throughput and a vast difference in the engineering of the innards which should further contribute to the stable running of the system.

My real issue with Apple at the moment is support: If Apple can't build 100% reliable hardware, I don't fully mind as long as the support is good. The fact that Applecare is crap when things go wrong is what is currently making me wait around for Mac Pro fault reports to propagate.


To the OP: You had a machine which served you well for 5 years. The likelihood of the same happening with a PC is somewhat less, and my guess is that you would have had to upgrade sooner. If I were you, I would hang around with your current setup for just a little while longer and buy a second revision or whatever it is called Mac Pro, as I will most probably be doing too. Whether it's just my experience or not, I've come to the conclusion given my current Apple purchases that it pays to let other people have all the problems with new machines first.

 

[triotary]

Well said Sesshi, but I don't agree that a home built system is unnecessary not comparable to a Dell system, as long as the builder knows what he is doing. I have seen so many dell, hp and compaq systems failed and their customer support is as bad as apple. The question is which customer support isn't?

Is it really true that Windows is less responsive in multi-app situations and less productive???

But for now, what I'm going to do now is WAIT...

 

[Unspeaked]

As I said in my first post, I work instensively on the adobe suite and I handle a lot of RAW images too.

That makes it simple: you don't want any currently shipping Mac.

Either:

1) Buy a PC

2) Buy a PowerMac G5 before they're all gone.

or

3) Wait until next spring when Adobe CS3 comes out.

 

[Unspeaked]

My real issue with Apple at the moment is support: If Apple can't build 100% reliable hardware, I don't fully mind as long as the support is good. The fact that Applecare is crap when things go wrong is what is currently making me wait around for Mac Pro fault reports to propagate.

Amen, brother.

Apple quality control and AppleCare are like Jack and Jill.

The former went tumbling down the mountain a few years ago, and the latter went tumbling after in a heartbeat.

 

[triotary]

That makes it simple: you don't want any currently shipping Mac.

Either:

1) Buy a PC

2) Buy a PowerMac G5 before they're all gone.

or

3) Wait until next spring when Adobe CS3 comes out.

G5 is very expensive compares to a Mac Pro. A Dual-core 2GHz PowerPC G5 will runs me only $200 cheaper than a MacPro Quad-core 2GHz

 

[Sesshi]

Well said Sesshi, but I don't agree that a home built system is unnecessary not comparable to a Dell system, as long as the builder knows what he is doing.

As I said, you've probably only seen the cheap PC's that Dell makes, which are broadly comparable to a well-built enthusiast PC in terms of how components are laid out, etc. A Dell or HP workstation / Mac Pro are however totally different kettles of fish. Take a look inside a G5/Mac Pro or a Dell Precision and you'll see what I mean. I picked out a spec for my Opteron system and got one of my friend's engineers to build it. We spent nearly two days just mapping out the airflow inside the case and what cables / routing to use based on that. But honestly, comparing the innards of that Opteron system to the Precisions I'm now starting to use, it still looks like a toy. You cannot compare your average homebuild where the case/loom/PSU budget is $400 or so as an absolute maximum to one of these machines.

 

[dextertangocci]

You buy a Mac for one of the two reasons below, none other:

- Macs are pretty
- Macs (legally) run OS X

Anything else anyone says is full of crap :] Thanks.

You are such an intelligent person

 

[hulugu]

the software is not the issue here, but the extra money for owning a mac hardware.

But, the software is the gateway to the hardware. You could have a PC worthy of running an AI, but without the software it's just a brick.


Edit: Noticed you didn't just mean software in general but rather the differences between XP and OSX.

I've heard varying stories about XP, most of them bad, some of them very bad, and occassionally good ones. You're the last case and thus you should decide two things: what OS allows you to be the most productive; and how soon do you need the machine, and what do you really need.
If OSX allows for the most productivity than whatever gains you might find with the 'better' hardware of a comparable PC might not be worth the lost time. Then again, the opposite could happen.

Just think about what you want the computer to do for you and then think of the best case scenario, then buy as close to that as you can afford in the time you have alloted.

We're buying Mac Pros now with AppleCare because we've always had fantastic experiences with AC and I'd expect the Mac Pro to have fewer issues because of the engineering tolerances in a MacBook/MBP are much more severe.
Notice the iMacs have been relatively complaint free.

 

[hulugu]

As I said, you've probably only seen the cheap PC's that Dell makes, which are broadly comparable to a well-built enthusiast PC in terms of how components are laid out, etc. A Dell or HP workstation / Mac Pro are however totally different kettles of fish. Take a look inside a G5/Mac Pro or a Dell Precision and you'll see what I mean. I picked out a spec for my Opteron system and got one of my friend's engineers to build it. We spent nearly two days just mapping out the airflow inside the case and what cables / routing to use based on that. But honestly, comparing the innards of that Opteron system to the Precisions I'm now starting to use, it still looks like a toy. You cannot compare your average homebuild where the case/loom/PSU budget is $400 or so as an absolute maximum to one of these machines.

This is one of the best descriptions I've read about the differences between home-brewed and store-bought machines.

 

[JMG]

2) the video card has no effect on 2D graphics work or most video editing

3) the intel chips of old sucked but the new ones pretty much dominate the market, apple mocked the pentium but new macs don't and never will use a pentium.

keep fooling yourself

 

[JMG]

You can multi task video rendering while you're doing everything else with no slow-down on OSX

that's probably the most false statement I have ever read.

 

[Mord]

keep fooling yourself

try proveing me wrong.

http://www.barefeats.com/mbcd4.html

 

[generik]

try proveing me wrong.

http://www.barefeats.com/mbcd4.html

A workstation vs a laptop?

1) desktop hdd > laptop hdd
2) maybe OSX has buggy power management? because we all know how people run apps to stop whining and mooing on their machines.

GG to the results of your benchmarks.

 

[Mord]

look at the MB Vs macbook pro, the graphics have near zero impact on everything on that page, as i said graphics cards only impact 3d apps, and very select 2D stuff, not photo shop or any vector graphics app, they are all cu bound.

 

[JMG]

try proveing me wrong.

http://www.barefeats.com/mbcd4.html

wow... those results involve either rendering, exporting, importing or some cpu handled operations. You said the video card has no effect in 2d and video editing. Have you considered the fact that photo/video editing is more than rendering and exporting? there is a thing called playback that can be taken into consideration. That's how you are wrong, and now you have backpedle and said "most" apps.

Also the Pentium chips of the past are no joke. just because apple wises up and starts using intel doesn't give them a free pass from knocking intel in the past.

 

[Mord]

it's why i said most video editing, only a few functions in apple pro software use the video card, motion is a large exepction, but it's the common misconception that graphics cards have any effect on vector graphics apps like photoshop, and 90% of video editing is cpu bound, hence the use of the word "most"