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PowerPCFan

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Mar 5, 2022
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Hi! I have a Macintosh LC III with a 25 MHz Motorola 68030 processor, and a Motorola 68882 co-processor. The highest operating system supported is Mac OS 7.6.1, but do you think it's possible to get at least Mac OS 8.1 or even Mac OS 9 on it without any serious lag or any hacking? I wanted an OS that was newer, and I had already used and tested MacOS 9 in QEMU, so it's familiar to me and I think is more useful than Mac OS 7. Also if there's any websites or places that I can get an Apple ADB Keyboard/Mouse set for under $30, that'd be great! Thanks for the help!
 

WriteNow

macrumors 6502
Aug 27, 2021
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I can't say if OS 8.1 would run, but I have heard stories of it running on unsupported Macs, for whatever that's worth. That said, even if it could be done, I have to think the performance might be, ah, lackluster, based on my memories of using a Macintosh Performa that was basically a renamed LC III. I liked that computer, but it felt like System 7.x was as much as it could handle. But I suppose this is one of those "your mileage may vary" deals.

OS 8.5 and above required a Mac with a PowerPC processor.
 
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velocityg4

macrumors 604
Dec 19, 2004
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You can do 8/8.1 on an LC III. Since it is 32bit clean. But will require some minor ResEdit hacking. Why not try it? It's not like you'll hurt anything. Just have to reinstall the OS if you screw up.

Now I'm sort of curious if it is possible on 32 bit "dirty" Mac with a ROM patch like the Mac ROM-inator II.

Definitely won't work with 8.5 or later.

You can try eBay for the keyboard and mouse. But don't search for ADB keyboards. You need to search for specific model numbers or specific model names. Otherwise you won't get many results.
 

PowerPCFan

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Original poster
Mar 5, 2022
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You can do 8/8.1 on an LC III. Since it is 32bit clean. But will require some minor ResEdit hacking. Why not try it? It's not like you'll hurt anything. Just have to reinstall the OS if you screw up.

Now I'm sort of curious if it is possible on 32 bit "dirty" Mac with a ROM patch like the Mac ROM-inator II.

Definitely won't work with 8.5 or later.

You can try eBay for the keyboard and mouse. But don't search for ADB keyboards. You need to search for specific model numbers or specific model names. Otherwise you won't get many results.
I think I'll try the hacks to get 8.1 on the Lc iii. I don't plan on trying anything higher than 8.1, but good to know that all MacOS all the way up to 8.5 will work. For the keyboard, I was searching Apple ADB keyboard and mouse set, and I got many results, but all said Extremely Rare and were priced at about $150 USD! The model number trick worked. Thank you so much for all the help.
 
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velocityg4

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Dec 19, 2004
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I think I'll try the hacks to get 8.1 on the Lc iii. I don't plan on trying anything higher than 8.1, but good to know that all MacOS all the way up to 8.5 will work. For the keyboard, I was searching Apple ADB keyboard and mouse set, and I got many trsults, but all said Extremely Rare and were priced at about $150 USD! The model number trick worked. Thank you so much for all the help.
No, 8.5 won’t work. Just up to 8.1. Anything higher requires PowerPC.

Glad to help.
 

PowerPCFan

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Mar 5, 2022
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How exactly do I download the required software to do this? It's not like I can just open a browser and go to a website on a computer from 1993.....
 

Berenod

macrumors regular
Apr 15, 2020
125
170
How exactly do I download the required software to do this? It's not like I can just open a browser and go to a website on a computer from 1993.....

Those are floppy image files.
I use an old pentium II laptop with a 3,5" floppy drive, then using winimage (a bit of Google gives you many sources) you can dump the images you download from winworldpc directly onto an empty 3,5" floppy.
The LCiii uses standard 1.44mb floppy's, so no problem there.

I download the image files using a modern PC, put them on a USB thumbdrive and use that to transfer them to the pentium 2 laptop, and then onto the 3,5" floppy.

With very old vintage tech, many times you need "intermediate" slightly less vintage material, to make the "bridge" between modern internet connected computers you use to source and download those old OS's and software and the actual vintage machine!
 
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dmr727

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Dec 29, 2007
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I think you'll find the performance of 8.1 to be less than ideal on an '030. But it certainly doesn't hurt anything to try it for yourself and see what you think.
 
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alectrona6400

macrumors regular
Mar 1, 2019
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Apple stripped all 68k native code from the Mac OS starting with 8.5, so it's not possible to run anything past 8.1 on a 68k chip, let alone a 68030. Probably best to stick with System 7 on such a chip, considering the 68030 wasn't officially supported on 8.1 for reasons.
Still, it's fun to try out 8.1 on a 68030, especially on a newer compact Mac.
 

PowerPCFan

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Original poster
Mar 5, 2022
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I haven't decided whether I should do 8 or 8.1 or just stick with 7.6 but how would I even get any OS on there? I have some floppy drives, but no floppies. I have 0 CDs and 0 CD drives. I have no other macs that have a SCSI connector for HDD, this is my only one. I don't even have a keyboard, mouse, monitor, or even a hard drive at all!
 

Berenod

macrumors regular
Apr 15, 2020
125
170
I haven't decided whether I should do 8 or 8.1 or just stick with 7.6 but how would I even get any OS on there? I have some floppy drives, but no floppies. I have 0 CDs and 0 CD drives. I have no other macs that have a SCSI connector for HDD, this is my only one. I don't even have a keyboard, mouse, monitor, or even a hard drive at all!
Well, that's what happens when you get into retro computing :) !
It is not the easiest, nor the cheapest hobby.
But hugely rewarding when you can get an old machine like that running again.

Do realize that those are not really machines you can have much practical use for those days in our modern world!

You'll have to learn to be resourceful and be willing to spend some money on the needed bits and pieces.
Scouring 2nd hand sites and eBay for what you need will have to become 2nd nature, as well as patience.
Wanting to buy something very quickly will likely end up costing you big money, usually shortly after you buy something you see someone virtually giving it away for free because they have no use for it.
In your case register on forum's specialized in the Motorola 68000 era Apple equipment, over here you'll find all you need for PPC machines, the Motorola ones, not so much. https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php is one such forum.
 
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Berenod

macrumors regular
Apr 15, 2020
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I'll write you up some, hopefully money saving, tips, it's a sunny sunday here, so why not :)

- Monitor:
Try to find the correct Mac video port to VGA adapter. Using this you can connect pretty much any regular monitor (even LCD) as long as it has a VGA input.
Example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/PTC-Beige-...witches-DB15-Male-to-HD15-Female/323278828744
Some Amazon sellers have them as well...
You'll have to find out how to set the dip switches correctly so the LCIII knows to put out VGA signal at a useable resolution for the monitor you will be using.
Normally all the LC's are capable of this. Warning, a generic DB15 to HD15 adapter (without the dipswitches) will not work properly, or at all!
Probably a much cheaper option then finding an original and working Apple monitor!
A thread on this forum about just this:

- Keyboard/Mouse:
Search Ebay! Actually, using the real model number of the keayboard usually gives you cheaper sellers compared to general "adb keyboard" searches.
For your LCiii that would be (I think anyway) the "Apple Keyboard 2" or model M0487
Same for the mouse!
Example, in my search a 19$ keyboard showed up! Just be carefull, those keyboards came with detacheable cable, so many are sold without the cable!

Or if you just need a cable:

Don't be shy to use the "or best offer" option with those sellers!

-Recap:
If you are going to spend some money on it, please, get it recapped. Those boards are full with capacitors of an age/era, where the question is not "will they leak" but rather "when will they leak". Even if they are good now, they will start leaking in the near future!

When they leak, the liquid goo comming out is corrosive and will start eating away at the copper traces, rendering your Mac soon totally dead, often even unreapairable (apart from replacing the complete affected board).
As well, they will by now be nowhere near rated capacitance, resulting in unstable operation, weird symptoms, sometimes needing several boot attempts before actually starting up, purely because of worn capacitors.

-Hard drive:
Those SCSI harddrives are pretty much all on their last legs. They are mechanical devices and they simply wear out eventually. Getting close to 30 years old, so they did make them pretty good as quite a few are actually still running!
Good, working ones are becoming more expensive with time, and you will never know when buying one how many years, months or even just days they will keep working.
There are quite a few SD to SCSI adapters (actually better called SCSI emulators) on the market.
With your LCIII you have two options, an internal one, which hooks up to the SCSI cable now going to your existing SCSI hard drive, or an external DB25 one, which you can just plug into the SCSI DB25 port on the back of your MAC.
This gives you one heck of an advantage I will describe in the next item (Basilisk).
For your Mac, the BlueSCSI is becoming rather popular! They are a bit less expensive then the competition, but with the limitation that they mainly only work on Macs, and not so much on other machines with SCSI drives (like vintage synthesizers for example).
I prefer the external one, mainly for the convenience of easily popping in and out the SD card.
Find your seller here:

-Basilisk II
This is an emulator which you can install on pretty much any modern machine (both Windows, Linux and Mac).
One very usefull feature is that you can create a "blank Mac drive" and make it visible in the emulated Mac system (I mainly use 7.5.5).
In the emulator you can then for example install one of the OS's on that Mac drive.
Then you can reboot the emulator using that fresh MacHD you just created and installed an OS on, so you are sure it works.
When booted into the emulator you can also make all your windows drives visible (" My Computer", when using Windows as host of course), so you can then very easily copy and paste any Mac software you have downloaded from the internet with your modern Windows computer onto the Mac HD in you emulator.
You can run installers for the software so they get installed onto that MacHD you just created.

When all that is done, from the comfort of your fast modern PC, you can just copy the MacHD image onto the SD card, pop it into the BlueSCSI and boot your vintage Mac just like you booted the emulator from that image.

This is a link to a youtube video with a very detailed tutorial on how to achieve the above I've just described, along with all the necesery links to needed downloads in the description of the video (apart from the needed ".rom file", you'll have to Google that one, some copyright issues apparently there, I found easily what I needed anyway).


Software and OS:
Pretty much all the old software you can use on those old machines is archived, so it never gets lost.
Or on this one you can also find a fair bit:

You will have to learn about the type of files of that era and be able to recognize them and know how to use them!
.img disk (floppy) images, .bin installers, .sit compressed files (and accompanying "Stuffit" software of the correct generation), to be able to unpack those files.
Apple did kind of made a mess of that one though, with Stuffit upgrades and uncompatible filetypes between the different versions ;)

So, if as you say you have no keyboard, mouse or monitor, without the cost of a VGA monitor (which you can get for next to nothing), you are looking at roundabout following expenses to get going:

VGA adapter +- 20 US$
Mouse/keyboard, with a bit of luck about 50$-70$
BlueSCSI, if you have no experience in soldering, fully built DB25 version, around 50$

Without shipping of course, above is assuming you are in the US, Europe likely to be about 10-15% more expensive.
 
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alectrona6400

macrumors regular
Mar 1, 2019
221
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Getting close to 30 years old, so they did make them pretty good as quite a few are actually still running!
Good, working ones are becoming more expensive with time, and you will never know when buying one how many years, months or even just days they will keep working.
I have a Maxtor 7120SR from December 1992 that is still kicking, albeit a little slowly. I've had that drive in 2017 and it's already been through a considerable amount of things. I do plan to replace my SCSI drives with adapted SCA drives I already own, though.
 
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PowerPCFan

macrumors 6502
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Mar 5, 2022
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Another question: Is there an adapter I can use to convert SCSI to IDE? I have tons of IDE drives, but no SCSI drives. I don't think there is, but that would be a lifesaver if it did exist.
 

velocityg4

macrumors 604
Dec 19, 2004
7,340
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Another question: Is there an adapter I can use to convert SCSI to IDE? I have tons of IDE drives, but no SCSI drives. I don't think there is, but that would be a lifesaver if it did exist.

I think Acard made one to go to 160 pin SCSI. But they're really expensive now.

Your best bets, for price, are getting a 68 or 80 pin SCSI HDD and a 50 pin adapter. Just be aware some drives have needs for a pricier adapter. I got a bunch of "new" 20+ year old 80 pin SCSI drives for cheap. But the $12 adapters didn't work. After tons of research. I found out I needed a fancy $30 adapter. I think it was a termination issue but don't recall the specific reason.

Another good option is SCSI2SD. I have one of these. The documentation sucks. So, getting it configured was a journey. But it works well and I can use new SD cards. They aren't cheap either. But nothing for these old Macs, storage wise, are cheap. Even the used and ancient SCSI drives aren't cheap. I only bought the ones I did because they were still sealed.

SCSI2SD maker. Get the V6 as they are way faster than the V5. I got a V5 because I wanted an external unit, I think the V6 are also easier to configure.

There's also SCSI to Compact Flash. But the old ones are getting hard to find. Plus they are generally a lot more expensive than the SCSI2SD. Plus a modern SD card is way faster than those old Macs can utilize anyways.
 
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