Mac Pro 2010 vs. Mac >2013

[ActionableMango]

Why are people still demanding internal spots for hard drives? Actually, the new Mac Pro offers better expansion.

Personally I like internal storage because it is fast, cheap, quiet, efficient, and doesn't result in a tangle of cables and power supplies. I like directly-connected external storage because it is handy to move around between computers and swap spares into a fire safe or off-site. I like network attached storage because it's always on and always available to all devices on the network.

I use all three and I see merit in all three. There are 7 billion people on this Earth, and not everyone will have the same priorities, needs, or preferences as you do.

People keep saying the new design is better than the old design for expansion. I just don't see it. The advantages in the new design are power efficiency, compactness, quietness, and fewer fans to fail.

But expansion? Expansion is the advantage of the old design--optical bays, HDD bays, PCIe slots, more CPU sockets, and more RAM sockets. Had Apple simply updated the old design we could have had Thunderbolt in addition to all that. The new design reduces expansion in numerous and significant ways.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^Not only Expansion, but UPGRADABILITY! My CPUs, GPU are both Upgraded. Seven storage devices and Two optical drives all mounted internally and I have USB 3.0. Also my SM951 will outrun a nMP.

Lou

 

[Reticuli]

This "debate" of cmp vs nmp has derailed topics constantly on this board
It comes up repeatedly even in topics where it is neither welcome or productive

 

[flowrider]

^^^^Please read the OPs question! IMHO, Mango's and my posts were on point. Sorry if you don't agree!

Lou

 

[mtasquared]

What OS do you run? If you're a musician El Capitan (which you'd get with a nMP) doesn't work with a lot of audio units and interfaces. I'd wait till this is fixed.

 

[Demigod Mac]

Put in a Titan X or 980 Ti and your machine will run circles around the nMP.

http://barefeats.com/imac5k17.html

 

[Derived]

Why are people still demanding internal spots for hard drives? Actually, the new Mac Pro offers better expansion. Thunderbolt makes internal spinning HDD pointless since you should get close to the same speeds.

This. I don't get it. There's not exactly a lot of room inside a cMP either, for storage at least. Everyone on here acts like you need to buy the 64 TB G-Speed Studio with the nMP or something, they seem to forget that external storage is cheap and plentiful...and much easier to swap out...

 

[Simon R.]

This. I don't get it. There's not exactly a lot of room inside a cMP either, for storage at least. Everyone on here acts like you need to buy the 64 TB G-Speed Studio with the nMP or something, they seem to forget that external storage is cheap and plentiful...and much easier to swap out...

Seriously? I have 7 SSD's in my cMP. You need at least two external enclosures like the Blackmagic to house those with the nMP. I am not saying that I won't eventually go nMP - but as long as they are in some ways less powerful than the 2009 Mac Pro I have, in some ways surpasses it by a few %, and in many ways a lot less upgradable/expandable, I won't pay 1,5-2x what I paid for my 2009 Mac Pro.

Wake me up when it makes sense for me (working as a composer - I don't need 2 GPU's...) to make the switch.

 

[Demigod Mac]

Thunderbolt enclosures are many things, but "cheap" is not one of them.

 

[Reticuli]

^^^^Please read the OPs question! IMHO, Mango's and my posts were on point. Sorry if you don't agree!

Lou

I never said the replies weren't relevant to the topic, only that the topic itself has been debated to death here.
By all means though, keep flogging that dead horse.

 

[lowendlinux]

This. I don't get it. There's not exactly a lot of room inside a cMP either, for storage at least. Everyone on here acts like you need to buy the 64 TB G-Speed Studio with the nMP or something, they seem to forget that external storage is cheap and plentiful...and much easier to swap out...

The problem come in because it's your only option. We all have external storage whether it be back-up drives , NAS, or SAN. With the new MP you have external main and external backup but I do agree the old MP doesn't have a great deal of internal storage either.

 

[flowrider]

I never said the replies weren't relevant to the topic, only that the topic itself has been debated to death here.

Actually you did:

It comes up repeatedly even in topics where it is neither welcome or productive

But your right, Hence my first post, right after the OP, but since a bunch of different members jumped on board, I jumped in too!

Lou

 

[h9826790]

6 SATA port + 3 PCIe slots (each slot can install up to 4 SSD internally) in the cMP is not a lot of storage inside a single Mac? Especially when compared to the nMP?

Yes, I don't need 64T storage. I am just a normal user, not computer related professional, but I still have around 6T of data (that's excluding the backup, and I've already tried my best to compress all videos / photos as much as possible). Is 1T nMP internal storage enough for me? NO. Is that 4HDD bay can provide 4x6T enough for me? YES, more than enough at this moment, and that's quite a lot.

Anyway, this is just my personal opinion.

 

[Reticuli]

If you're interested in a Mac Pro there's my advice.
Sit down and read the technical specs of both the nMP and the various cMP years.
Consider your use case. Do you need add-in cards, additional storage? Are you likely to want to upgrade the CPU/GPU(s)?
Is form factor important?
Is energy efficiency important?

Choose the Mac Pro which suits you best, enjoy your purchase and move on with your life.
If I had £1 for every MR post loudly proclaiming the superiority of one MP format over another (from both nmp and cmp users) I could buy both just to troll both sides of the "debate"

You don't owe anyone here a justification of your purchase decision, so please can we keep the X vs Y posturing nonsense to a minimum and focus on stuff which actually matters? Surely I'm not the only one sick of the Mac pro versus threads by now

 

[handheldgames]

of course the nmp has the fastest pcie storage options. unless you consider the cMP can do with a 4 slot x16 pcie ssd card running in raid 0.

 

[Reticuli]

of course the nmp has the fastest pcie storage options. unless you consider the cMP can do with a 4 slot x16 pcie ssd card running in raid 0. View attachment 598594

Insane speeds, what was the total cost?
I'm running 4x SATA SSDs in Raid0 using a thunderbay 4 mini enclosure. Total cost was around 1k, speeds below

 

[handheldgames]

Insane speeds, what was the total cost?
I'm running 4x SATA SSDs in Raid0 using a thunderbay 4 mini enclosure. Total cost was around 1k, speeds below

the quad m.2 adapter is 300+shipping and sm951s have a street price of 375ish for each bump in speed/storage. the max config comes in under 2k. the benchmark numbers are from an upcoming article on barefeats.

 

[Reticuli]

the quad m.2 adapter is 300+shipping and sm951s have a street price of 375ish for each bump in speed/storage. the max config comes in under 2k. the benchmark numbers are from an upcoming article on barefeats.

Very nice

 

[Demigod Mac]

128GB SM951 goes for $129:
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SM951-128GB-AHCI-MZHPV128HDGM-00000/dp/B00VELD5D8/

Haven't taken the plunge because I'm not 100% convinced the performance jump would make a massively noticeable difference in most of my real-world, day-to-day scenarios compared to an Accelsior E2. Plus I'd miss having those eSATA ports.

 

[Derived]

The problem come in because it's your only option. We all have external storage whether it be back-up drives , NAS, or SAN. With the new MP you have external main and external backup but I do agree the old MP doesn't have a great deal of internal storage either.

To some extent I can totally understand why after years of using internal storage, moving to external would be costly and annoying...however it seems like that is overall a much more flexible setup. Overall, I see the benefits in both types of setups, and overall it seems like people get overly defense about whichever setup they choose. I mean really, you're limited to 8 drives in the cMP, and that's if you ditch both opticals and put in special adapters. And even then you're not going to have a very cohesive solution. Meanwhile a well-designed 8-drive external enclosure via TB will be very nice to use. I mean don't get me wrong I'm about to pickup a cMP myself...but if I had the money, I'd have no hesitation getting a nMP (after the update) and picking up some decent external storage.

 

[flowrider]

I mean really, you're limited to 8 drives in the cMP, and that's if you ditch both opticals and put in special adapters.

I think you may be forgetting the PCIe slots. I have seven drives in my Mac Pro. An SM951, 2 SSDs on an Apricorn Duo x2, 2 SSDs mounted in the HD Bays, and 2 HDDs mounted in the HD Bays. And I still have 2 optical drives. Prior to the SM951, I had Eight storage devices with my 2 optical drives. If I wasn't using a PCIe slot for a USB 3.0 card, I could have 2 more internal SSDs. The cMP is really more flexible than you give it credit for.

Lou

 

[Demigod Mac]

OS X can also be quite finicky when it comes to externals (especially when they spin down, and some drive firmwares override OS X's energy saver setting). Would much rather have an array of internals for regular storage.

 

[Derived]

I think you may be forgetting the PCIe slots. I have seven drives in my Mac Pro. An SM951, 2 SSDs on an Apricorn Duo x2, 2 SSDs mounted in the HD Bays, and 2 HDDs mounted in the HD Bays. And I still have 2 optical drives. Prior to the SM951, I had Eight storage devices with my 2 optical drives. If I wasn't using a PCIe slot for a USB 3.0 card, I could have 2 more internal SSDs. The cMP is really more flexible than you give it credit for.

Lou

Here's the thing though - USB 3 isn't optional anymore, it's a necessity. And given that the cMP doesn't have it as standard, you're immediately writing off one of the PCI-E slots for that purpose. Also, many decent GPUs take up more than one slot. So, 2 slots for GPU, 1 slot for USB 3...that leaves you one. Which, ideally, you'd use for hardware RAID. Of course, everyone's needs are different, and you can't really make blanket statements. However, there really isn't anything the cMP can do that the nMP can't do, apart from take newer GPUs (with caveats). nMP has TB, HDMI, USB 3, and current-spec WiFi/Bluetooth built-in, so there's no real need to add anything on. All you'd need to add on is storage, which is done easily with a single TB enclosure and cable. This weird notion that a nMP has all these external cables and boxes is silly, as really the only external portion is the storage. Now, for some this is unacceptable, but it's really not that big of a deal. Like you said, the cMP is very flexible in terms of storage, and I totally get that. However I also think the nMP is more flexible than people give it credit for. Just a thought.

 

[VAGDesign]

Here's the thing though - USB 3 isn't optional anymore, it's a necessity. And given that the cMP doesn't have it as standard, you're immediately writing off one of the PCI-E slots for that purpose. Also, many decent GPUs take up more than one slot. So, 2 slots for GPU, 1 slot for USB 3...that leaves you one. Which, ideally, you'd use for hardware RAID. Of course, everyone's needs are different, and you can't really make blanket statements. However, there really isn't anything the cMP can do that the nMP can't do, apart from take newer GPUs (with caveats). nMP has TB, HDMI, USB 3, and current-spec WiFi/Bluetooth built-in, so there's no real need to add anything on. All you'd need to add on is storage, which is done easily with a single TB enclosure and cable. This weird notion that a nMP has all these external cables and boxes is silly, as really the only external portion is the storage. Now, for some this is unacceptable, but it's really not that big of a deal. Like you said, the cMP is very flexible in terms of storage, and I totally get that. However I also think the nMP is more flexible than people give it credit for. Just a thought.

The bottom PCIe slot on all cMPs is double spaced. Means that all dual slot GPUs don't get the space needed from the slot above.
Now about the USB 3 and BT4/WiFi AC, see my sig.
HDMI is provided by the modern GPUs, I have one on my 7950, along with 2 mDP and 2 DVIs.

Also on my 2,1 I have FW 400 and 800, Optical in/out, Ethernet ports and accessibility on USB/FW on the front. New MP has all it's ports on the back.

TB to my workflow is no use, all the above, are. Many users prefer compatibility to the past with additional tech from today, but TB isn't one of today I need/want as many others too, can live without it for long time.

I could design a New nMP to show Apple the path users like me need. I am sure, many of you would love it. But this ain't gonna happen because Apple pays millions to its Senior iMac/iPhone/iOS/MacOS X designer who have some conflicts with the needs of many professionals who don't want their beloved company to spend working hours to create Emojis instead of new hardware that just works

 

[nigelbb]

Nobody has addressed a fundamental reason to purchase a nMP is that you can buy a new one with a 3 year onsite manufacturers warranty. A cMP is going to be used & years old. The quality of work done on any upgrades will be unknown & there will be no warranty.