MP 7,1 Mac Pro 2019 16 core... feels sluggish... anyone?

[stoobysnax]

Bought my 16 core MP 18 months ago... And while its definitely a multi-core beast, able to do huge Logic Pro sessions (my full time job)... it's just kinda sluggish feeling.

Openings files, opening plugin windows, zipping files... I get the feeling that the chips are constantly "hanging up" or that the single core is slower than advertised (and it's not even that fast anyways)...

I'm eyeing these new 16" M1 Max MacBooks, and wondering, how much faster will my computer feel with single core chips that fast... I will give up some multi-core (which I RARELY ever come close to maxing out)...

Anyways, it's so frustrating... I've tried reinstall apps... it's just kinda "meh"...

Anyone else have this issue?

 

[4wdwrx]

The clock speeds are lower as the core count increases unfortunately, therefore in normal usage, it is like a CPU from 5 years ago.

Since Apple Silicon is the future, Apple software team most likely has reduced the development and optimization for Intel.

I can't wait to see the M1 Max review. It will be very impressive.

 

[Romanesco]

You’re not alone. My 16-core doesn’t feel like flying either.

 

[SecuritySteve]

Bought my 16 core MP 18 months ago... And while its definitely a multi-core beast, able to do huge Logic Pro sessions (my full time job)... it's just kinda sluggish feeling.

Openings files, opening plugin windows, zipping files... I get the feeling that the chips are constantly "hanging up" or that the single core is slower than advertised (and it's not even that fast anyways)...

I'm eyeing these new 16" M1 Max MacBooks, and wondering, how much faster will my computer feel with single core chips that fast... I will give up some multi-core (which I RARELY ever come close to maxing out)...

Anyways, it's so frustrating... I've tried reinstall apps... it's just kinda "meh"...

Anyone else have this issue?

Given how close the 16 core is to the M1 Max, you likely would only feel performance boosts. I think since Logic Pro is deep in the Apple Ecosystem and already optimized for ARM, you would do well to switch early.

The only thing you should consider is that we should see ARM desktop chips next year. Those chips will undoubtedly be speedier than their mobile counterparts. This will replace the 27" iMac and Mac Pro in the lineup, which will complete the transition to ARM from x86 intel chips.

 

[stoobysnax]

You’re not alone. My 16-core doesn’t feel like flying either.

Pretty frustrating for a machine this expensive.

Now I’m torn between going all in on an M1 max, or waiting for the new AS Mac Pro. I feel like the longer I wait the quicker the 7.1 is gonna drop in value. May just go for the switch.

 

[Dt990]

While I'm not a 16-Core user, I did notice that the internal SSD wasn't the speediest, granted I bought the smallest SSD and often they're slower. Booting off my Samsung 970 feels zippier.

 

[LEOMODE]

I believe the single core is all about the same throughout most of the current CPUs these days. I do agree with Dt990 above that, the only way to feel a tangible single-core difference would be the SSD. And the larger SSD's you have, the faster speed it has (until you feel them up all the way). I used to have Mac Pro 5,1 with 6 core and in terms of day-to-day tasks, I couldn't really feel any difference in loading. And that one was what, a 10-year-old chip?

 

[stoobysnax]

I believe the single core is all about the same throughout most of the current CPUs these days. I do agree with Dt990 above that, the only way to feel a tangible single-core difference would be the SSD. And the larger SSD's you have, the faster speed it has (until you feel them up all the way). I used to have Mac Pro 5,1 with 6 core and in terms of day-to-day tasks, I couldn't really feel any difference in loading. And that one was what, a 10-year-old chip?

Not really true re: single core... My 16 core Mac Pro has a Geekbench of 1120... The M1's and M1 pro / max are around 1700-1750 range... That is a massive jump in performance.

 

[LEOMODE]

Not really true re: single core... My 16 core Mac Pro has a Geekbench of 1120... The M1's and M1 pro / max are around 1700-1750 range... That is a massive jump in performance.

I wouldn't really focus on those numbers. They seem like a 56% increase but in reality, not all programs and tangible usages will have a 56% jump in performance every time, is what I'm trying to tell you. Especially when you were referring to "Openings files, opening plugin windows, zipping files", I don't think a 56% increase will benefit you that much in real typical usage. As I said, in my day-to-day usage, including what you mentioned above, I haven't really felt any difference. The only differences I saw were when I was rendering, running up machine learning scripts, etc. on serious professional tasks.

Lastly, maybe you should've just gone my route. I chose a 12-core because it had the fastest clock speed out of all the other chips Apple offered for Mac Pro 7,1.

 

[stoobysnax]

I wouldn't really focus on those numbers. They seem like a 56% increase but in reality, not all programs and tangible usages will have a 56% jump in performance every time, is what I'm trying to tell you. Especially when you were referring to "Openings files, opening plugin windows, zipping files", I don't think a 56% increase will benefit you that much in real typical usage. As I said, in my day-to-day usage, including what you mentioned above, I haven't really felt any difference. The only differences I saw were when I was rendering, running up machine learning scripts, etc. on serious professional tasks.

Lastly, maybe you should've just gone my route. I chose a 12-core because it had the fastest clock speed out of all the other chips Apple offered for Mac Pro 7,1.

Fair enough... But with that argument, then there should be no noticeable difference between your 12 core and the 16 core, no??

All I know is things feel sluggish on this machine... and seem to be so much snappier on the AS stuff, from my experience (and others experiences)... maybe I'm just fooling myself that there would be much of a difference.

Either way, a ton of my software isn't optimized yet (audio) so, it's kinda a no go for me right now anyways.

 

[LEOMODE]

Fair enough... But with that argument, then there should be no noticeable difference between your 12 core and the 16 core, no??

All I know is things feel sluggish on this machine... and seem to be so much snappier on the AS stuff, from my experience (and others experiences)... maybe I'm just fooling myself that there would be much of a difference.

Either way, a ton of my software isn't optimized yet (audio) so, it's kinda a no go for me right now anyways.

Right, the reason why I recommended you for 12 core vs 16 core was, it's cheaper and you wouldn't notice that much of a difference but gives you peace of mind that it has a higher clock to yield you faster performance for a single-core task.

I would try to get a different machine and compare it to your daily tasks (maybe like with the latest MacBook Pros and return it within 14 days). I currently have a MacBook Pro 13 M1 8 GPU (as per in my signature below), and I prefer Mac Pro any day. It's just more silent and power-efficient but Mac Pro is way more robust in various tasks I throw at it. MacBook Pro still lags in various situations.

 

[profdraper]

Bought my 16 core MP 18 months ago... And while its definitely a multi-core beast, able to do huge Logic Pro sessions (my full time job)... it's just kinda sluggish feeling.

Openings files, opening plugin windows, zipping files... I get the feeling that the chips are constantly "hanging up" or that the single core is slower than advertised (and it's not even that fast anyways)...

I'm eyeing these new 16" M1 Max MacBooks, and wondering, how much faster will my computer feel with single core chips that fast... I will give up some multi-core (which I RARELY ever come close to maxing out)...

Anyways, it's so frustrating... I've tried reinstall apps... it's just kinda "meh"...

Anyone else have this issue?

I too have a 16 core & about the same age. Something's not right with your system, for sure. I have no such issues and the box performs very well on any number of tasks incl large audio projects at 96kHz, lenghty 4k film projects etc. as well as the day-to day single core tasks you mention. FWIW, I certainly wouldn't jump to overhyped Apple Silcon portables. Maybe in a few years for a comparable mac pro & once Rosetta /compatibility is a thing of the past.

In my experience, this mac pro is a very, very good machine (albeit vastly overpriced). If you've already purchased however, I'd certainly stick with it. FWIW, I use Sensie to monitor performance, ram etc & there are also other tools to check what the box is doing when we put load on it.

Your don't online your exact spec, only the 16 core [mine is in the sig]. Here I'm assuming you have enough RAM and boot disk space. BTW, I have 192GB of Nemix ram, but that is rarely utilised above 11% or so. I have a pair of Vega GPUs, but that should have little impact on Logic, my use here is primarily for DaVinci Resolve.

So if its not hardware, I suspect this is a macOS issue. I found Catalina to be a bit of a dog, Big Sur better & now Monterey is excellent IMHO (improves on a few big Sur Bugs). I'm also making extensive use of Aggregate IO in my mixing /mastering stages & which includes external analogue summing - if anything was going to make it laggy, this would. Aggregate inlcudes a UA Apollo & multiple Antenlope Auido devices.

So, I still come back to the system.
First, reset the NVRAM (remove power for 20 secs or so) and then zap the PRAM (Cmd-Opt-P-R when booting).
If no improvement, then Possibilties:
1) an OS restore via Recovery or also the Internet recovery option; Also check the boot disk from here; then updating to the latest OS.
2) a clean install via booting off another disk, then formatting your primary boot & restore apps via Time Machine.
3) a clean install from scratch - go Monterey, then manually install all software, plus VIs etc. Lengthier, but could be worthwhile in the long term.

When resolved, use Carbon Copy Cloner to make a bootable image on a spare drive and re-image or boot from ths as necessary.

I hope this helps.

 

[stoobysnax]

I too have a 16 core & about the same age. Something's not right with your system, for sure. I have no such issues and the box performs very well on any number of tasks incl large audio projects at 96kHz, lenghty 4k film projects etc. as well as the day-to day single core tasks you mention. FWIW, I certainly wouldn't jump to overhyped Apple Silcon portables. Maybe in a few years for a comparable mac pro & once Rosetta /compatibility is a thing of the past.

In my experience, this mac pro is a very, very good machine (albeit vastly overpriced). If you've already purchased however, I'd certainly stick with it. FWIW, I use Sensie to monitor performance, ram etc & there are also other tools to check what the box is doing when we put load on it.

Your don't online your exact spec, only the 16 core [mine is in the sig]. Here I'm assuming you have enough RAM and boot disk space. BTW, I have 192GB of Nemix ram, but that is rarely utilised above 11% or so. I have a pair of Vega GPUs, but that should have little impact on Logic, my use here is primarily for DaVinci Resolve.

So if its not hardware, I suspect this is a macOS issue. I found Catalina to be a bit of a dog, Big Sur better & now Monterey is excellent IMHO (improves on a few big Sur Bugs). I'm also making extensive use of Aggregate IO in my mixing /mastering stages & which includes external analogue summing - if anything was going to make it laggy, this would. Aggregate inlcudes a UA Apollo & multiple Antenlope Auido devices.

So, I still come back to the system.
First, reset the NVRAM (remove power for 20 secs or so) and then zap the PRAM (Cmd-Opt-P-R when booting).
If no improvement, then Possibilties:
1) an OS restore via Recovery or also the Internet recovery option; Also check the boot disk from here; then updating to the latest OS.
2) a clean install via booting off another disk, then formatting your primary boot & restore apps via Time Machine.
3) a clean install from scratch - go Monterey, then manually install all software, plus VIs etc. Lengthier, but could be worthwhile in the long term.

When resolved, use Carbon Copy Cloner to make a bootable image on a spare drive and re-image or boot from ths as necessary.

I hope this helps.

Thanks this is great info.

I suspect you are right, in terms of the issue being software related on some capacity. And ya, it would be kinda dumb to ditch such a great machine for the new kid in town… although they do look sweet.

Mines…
16 core
Base graphics
64 GB ram
2TB stock droce
2x2tb owc m.2 drives

 

[stoobysnax]

I too have a 16 core & about the same age. Something's not right with your system, for sure. I have no such issues and the box performs very well on any number of tasks incl large audio projects at 96kHz, lenghty 4k film projects etc. as well as the day-to day single core tasks you mention. FWIW, I certainly wouldn't jump to overhyped Apple Silcon portables. Maybe in a few years for a comparable mac pro & once Rosetta /compatibility is a thing of the past.

In my experience, this mac pro is a very, very good machine (albeit vastly overpriced). If you've already purchased however, I'd certainly stick with it. FWIW, I use Sensie to monitor performance, ram etc & there are also other tools to check what the box is doing when we put load on it.

Your don't online your exact spec, only the 16 core [mine is in the sig]. Here I'm assuming you have enough RAM and boot disk space. BTW, I have 192GB of Nemix ram, but that is rarely utilised above 11% or so. I have a pair of Vega GPUs, but that should have little impact on Logic, my use here is primarily for DaVinci Resolve.

So if its not hardware, I suspect this is a macOS issue. I found Catalina to be a bit of a dog, Big Sur better & now Monterey is excellent IMHO (improves on a few big Sur Bugs). I'm also making extensive use of Aggregate IO in my mixing /mastering stages & which includes external analogue summing - if anything was going to make it laggy, this would. Aggregate inlcudes a UA Apollo & multiple Antenlope Auido devices.

So, I still come back to the system.
First, reset the NVRAM (remove power for 20 secs or so) and then zap the PRAM (Cmd-Opt-P-R when booting).
If no improvement, then Possibilties:
1) an OS restore via Recovery or also the Internet recovery option; Also check the boot disk from here; then updating to the latest OS.
2) a clean install via booting off another disk, then formatting your primary boot & restore apps via Time Machine.
3) a clean install from scratch - go Monterey, then manually install all software, plus VIs etc. Lengthier, but could be worthwhile in the long term.

When resolved, use Carbon Copy Cloner to make a bootable image on a spare drive and re-image or boot from ths as necessary.

I hope this helps.

You are on Monterey? Most of my audio software isn’t supported yet. Are you finding stuff works?

 

[profdraper]

You are on Monterey? Most of my audio software isn’t supported yet. Are you finding stuff works?

I've been running the betas for some time now on a separate boot disk, and mostly working from that because of no show-stoppers. SoftRAID had some driver issues early on - and that interacted with other drivers from Antelope audio. All of which was related to (annoying) authorisation gobbledegook with the macOS Security Panel. But now with a 6.2 SoftRAID release all is good, as is Monterey 12.01 GM.

Everything works for me: Nuendo, Wavelab, SpectraLayers, Luna, Logic, Mainstage, Digital Performer, FCPX, Resolve Studio, Native Instruments, Steinberg Absolute 5, UA plugs, Melda, Gullfoss, iZotope, Kalanghelm, Kush, Oeksound, various Plugin Alliance, Sonarworks, SoundToys, etc. Did the last 2x albums mix & master all with Monterey betas.

Nothing else comes to mind, but I have stayed updated with new patches as they came up. In any case, just stay with Big Sur if Monterey worries you. They're very similar. Still, I would have thought zero issues with Logic ....

 

[stoobysnax]

Ok thanks... Ya i knew Logic was fine... mostly worried about UAD and my multi-apollo / satellite setup... and recall of old sessions if needed.

 

[colinconn]

Bought my 16 core MP 18 months ago... And while its definitely a multi-core beast, able to do huge Logic Pro sessions (my full time job)... it's just kinda sluggish feeling.

Openings files, opening plugin windows, zipping files... I get the feeling that the chips are constantly "hanging up" or that the single core is slower than advertised (and it's not even that fast anyways)...

I'm eyeing these new 16" M1 Max MacBooks, and wondering, how much faster will my computer feel with single core chips that fast... I will give up some multi-core (which I RARELY ever come close to maxing out)...

Anyways, it's so frustrating... I've tried reinstall apps... it's just kinda "meh"...

Anyone else have this issue?

I worked at Apple Retail for three years and they would always pull this ****: Focus all development on the new hot thing, make it feel speedy and tight on launch day, then circle back and fix what they broke on older machines.

Give a patch, that sluggish behavior will magically vanish.

 

[colinconn]

You are on Monterey? Most of my audio software isn’t supported yet. Are you finding stuff works?

I'm on Monterey rocking Ableton Live 11, Reaper, Hindenburg, Fabfilter, iZotope, Wavefactory, and Universal Audio. Everything works, zero issues.

I've also got Windows 11 installed and that magically works too, no issues.

 

[bernuli]

The clock speeds are lower as the core count increases unfortunately, therefore in normal usage, it is like a CPU from 5 years ago.

Since Apple Silicon is the future, Apple software team most likely has reduced the development and optimization for Intel.

I can't wait to see the M1 Max review. It will be very impressive.

I had been thinking the slower clock speed on the higher core, and more to much more expensive CPUs would make the higher core Mac Pros seem sluggish in day to day tasks. However, looking at Geekbench 5 results on Single-Core Score, seems the opposite. The Single-Core Score goes up slightly with the higher core CPUs. This is the opposite of what I thought would be.

I am getting a 7,1 mostly for VMware and want a lot of cores to run numerous VMs concurrently. However I don't want the machine to "feel sluggish" with single thread tasks like opening files or apps and compressing with the built in Archive Utility or web browsing etc. Geekbench makes me think I OK with higher core count, but without comparing these machines side by side IRL it really hard to say for sure.

GB5S System
1145 Mac Pro (Late 2019) Intel Xeon W-3275M @ 2.5 GHz (28 cores)
1131 Mac Pro (Late 2019) Intel Xeon W-3265M @ 2.7 GHz (24 cores)
1120 Mac Pro (Late 2019) Intel Xeon W-3245 @ 3.2 GHz (16 cores)
1113 Mac Pro (Late 2019) Intel Xeon W-3235 @ 3.3 GHz (12 cores)
1015 Mac Pro (Late 2019) Intel Xeon W-3223 @ 3.5 GHz (8 cores)

 

[PowerMike G5]

Thanks this is great info.

I suspect you are right, in terms of the issue being software related on some capacity. And ya, it would be kinda dumb to ditch such a great machine for the new kid in town… although they do look sweet.

Mines…
16 core
Base graphics
64 GB ram
2TB stock droce
2x2tb owc m.2 drives

My 7,1 16-core has never felt sluggish. Like mentioned, I think you should look into proper optimizations in software before discounting this machine. Other threads have already shown the 12-core 7,1 being somewhat faster than the M1 X (although this was related to video work).

You should do a NVRAM reset, and make sure any sort of directories for cache, acceleration, etc. are set accordingly to maximize performance.

In terms of hardware, the 7,1 uses 6-channel RAM, and I had a pretty substantial increase in performance when I moved from 128GB RAM in a 10-stick configuration to 96GB RAM in a 6-stick configuration. How is your 64GB currently configured?

 

[stoobysnax]

My 7,1 16-core has never felt sluggish. Like mentioned, I think you should look into proper optimizations in software before discounting this machine. Other threads have already shown the 12-core 7,1 being somewhat faster than the M1 X (although this was related to video work).

You should do a NVRAM reset, and make sure any sort of directories for cache, acceleration, etc. are set accordingly to maximize performance.

In terms of hardware, the 7,1 uses 6-channel RAM, and I had a pretty substantial increase in performance when I moved from 128GB RAM in a 10-stick configuration to 96GB RAM in a 6-stick configuration. How is your 64GB currently configured?

Oh really?? Mine is 64GB in a 8-stick configuration... You really think moving to 6 would speed things up? Could I theoretically just take 2 out and re install them in a 6 configuration (obviously I'd have 16GB less ram testing this out) just to see if it speeds things up?

 

[stoobysnax]

I had been thinking the slower clock speed on the higher core, and more to much more expensive CPUs would make the higher core Mac Pros seem sluggish in day to day tasks. However, looking at Geekbench 5 results on Single-Core Score, seems the opposite. The Single-Core Score goes up slightly with the higher core CPUs. This is the opposite of what I thought would be.

I am getting a 7,1 mostly for VMware and want a lot of cores to run numerous VMs concurrently. However I don't want the machine to "feel sluggish" with single thread tasks like opening files or apps and compressing with the built in Archive Utility or web browsing etc. Geekbench makes me think I OK with higher core count, but without comparing these machines side by side IRL it really hard to say for sure.

GB5S System
1145 Mac Pro (Late 2019) Intel Xeon W-3275M @ 2.5 GHz (28 cores)
1131 Mac Pro (Late 2019) Intel Xeon W-3265M @ 2.7 GHz (24 cores)
1120 Mac Pro (Late 2019) Intel Xeon W-3245 @ 3.2 GHz (16 cores)
1113 Mac Pro (Late 2019) Intel Xeon W-3235 @ 3.3 GHz (12 cores)
1015 Mac Pro (Late 2019) Intel Xeon W-3223 @ 3.5 GHz (8 cores)

I think those Geekbench scores may test them out when only one core is maxing out?? Rather than, when the cores are working harder, in which case, the single core performance drops (again, from what I've heard, and I don't fully understand this stuff so, there's that also lol)

 

[profdraper]

Ok thanks... Ya i knew Logic was fine... mostly worried about UAD and my multi-apollo / satellite setup... and recall of old sessions if needed.

Also using UA Apollo x8 & octo satellite here, UAD 9.14. All good. Old Logic sessions, in my experience that's largely up to Logic (not the OS) which updates the session format as required. Other comments in this thread seem to mirror my earlier points that the 7,1 MP is likely fine. From past experience with macOS however, this does sound like a good case for a clean install of everything - or at least, try recovery & time machine in the first instance - problem with that can be that it does not always correctly pull across prefs and/or copy protection that is so common in pro audio apps /plugs /VIs. Depends what you are running.

That's what Apple do: any real 'control' of anything deep (recovery, BIOS, UEFI etc) they make it long-winded and obscure ... the 'magical' garbage they sprout & they really don't want users fiddling much, 'just watch the movie'. Very unlike other platforms in my experience where you can get 'down & dirty' but also at the expense of being able to break the thing. [I continue to use and enjoy Samsung /Android phone Z/Flip & Windows 11 laptop touchscreen convertible etc]. Much control here and little Apple BS & I'd prefer to keep it that way. And OS updates do not tend to keep breaking things. That said, for pro audio /recording studio, the mac pro is perfect in my view: great cooling, quite, lots of PCIe conectivity (I do not want bizzillions of break-out thunderbolt cables, to bizzillions of external peripherals with yet more PSUs & fans). And the OS: Aggregate Audio is excellent and this does not exist at this level on Windows (ASIO4ALL, VoiceMeeter etc have not remotely the same level of fuss-free, low latency etc).

If the mac is really 'broke' at the OS level, then the only way to fix that is to clean install everything from scratch (just like every Apple 'genius' nitwit seems to advise when the going gets tough). Before doing so: ensure all your software installers are archived, up to date & ready to go. Ditto any licence numbers, copy protect scenarios etc. When done, run everything up to build caches etc. Give it the once over with something like Onyx or Mac Cleaner. A fresh Time Machine it and a fresh CCC clone. A day or so, should then be great.

 

[PowerMike G5]

Oh really?? Mine is 64GB in a 8-stick configuration... You really think moving to 6 would speed things up? Could I theoretically just take 2 out and re install them in a 6 configuration (obviously I'd have 16GB less ram testing this out) just to see if it speeds things up?

Yeah you should be able to test this out yourself by doing this. You do lose more RAM, but the speed will be maximized. I gained almost 2000 more points on GB5 in multicore, single core being similar to pre-6 channel. Your results may vary.

 

[PowerMike G5]

I think those Geekbench scores may test them out when only one core is maxing out?? Rather than, when the cores are working harder, in which case, the single core performance drops (again, from what I've heard, and I don't fully understand this stuff so, there's that also lol)

The reason single core scores are basically the same across all of these CPUs, despite the core count, has to do with Intel's Turbo Boost I believe. It will raise the single for performance to a certain ceiling if it knows your current workload isn't multi-threaded. That's why the 2.5Ghz 28 core can have a higher single core score than the 8 core 3.5Ghz, despite the 1Ghz difference.