Mac Pro 3,1 vs 5,1 - performance

[Project Alice]

I think it works here too. Sure not the main forum, but a 5,1 is still an Early Intel Mac. (Pre Core-i, runs Snow Leopard)

Technically, it is supposed to go in the Mac Pro forum. However, I don’t think anyone in here minds, especially with questions regarding 3,1s and older.

 

[uller6]

I'm not going to argue about pricing, I'm just taking some exception to this (emphasis mine).

I used a Quad G5 alongside a 2.3DC G5 for three years. You probably knew that as you've been here on MR three years longer than I have. Anyway, any of my Macs or PCs that are powered-on stay that way. I don't turn my computers off and I don't allow them to sleep. I allow monitors to sleep, but that's it. So, with the exceptions of rebooting or powering down because I need to remove/add/replace parts or physically move computers, all my computers are running full power 24/7/365.

In all of this, do you know how much my electric bill went up during the years I was using the Quad and the 2.3DC? $20 a month.

Now, if $20 a month additional on your electric bill is a deal-breaker, you are either single or counting your pennies (or both). But compared to my 5-ton A/C unit (which broke), and my five portable A/C units that I've had to use since, this is nothing. My electric bill hits north of $500 a month during the summer. I live in Phoenix, Arizona. Do you know what's causing my electric bill to spike so high? It's sure not computers being left on sucking a lot of power. You know how I know that? Because during the winter my electric bill hovers around $100. For a two-story, three bedroom house.

So compared to my air conditioning, this is nothing.

Now, I use a MacPro 5,1 (a 4,1 updated). It too is left on 24/7/365. Between my 5,1 and my G5 Quad, which 'old tech' is doing the most sucking of power? Hint: it's NOT the MacPro.

Yes, compared to a much more modern Mac or PC, my MP is drawing a lot more power. But, if the most power hungry Macs ever made drive up an electric bill by only $20 a month, is the power draw of an old MP 5,1 really that much of a concern?

I didn't lose any sleep with what the Quad and the 2.3DC drew (plus all my other computers), I don't lose any sleep over what the MP draws either. This is really a non-argument to me.

I would argue that $20/month is a ton to pay to run a computer and this adds up fast, but we all have different thresholds of what is reasonable. You're paying for an entire Mac mini every ~3 years just to run a MP. Electricity is never going to get any cheaper. I did the math on this in 2015, got rid of my 3,1 since it ~200 watts even at idle. I replaced it with a 2014 Mac mini, which only uses ~5 watts running headless at idle. Now that's a negligible increase in my power bill, and the Mac mini has already paid for itself 3X (compared to running the 3,1).

 

[eyoungren]

I would argue that $20/month is a ton to pay to run a computer and this adds up fast, but we all have different thresholds of what is reasonable. You're paying for an entire Mac mini every ~3 years just to run a MP. Electricity is never going to get any cheaper. I did the math on this in 2015, got rid of my 3,1 since it ~200 watts even at idle. I replaced it with a 2014 Mac mini, which only uses ~5 watts running headless at idle. Now that's a negligible increase in my power bill, and the Mac mini has already paid for itself 3X (compared to running the 3,1).

My power bill this month is $112. During August it can climb over $550.

Now, if you tell me I can have around a $100 bill in August by turning off all my computers or replacing them with more efficient ones, then yeah, I'd probably figure out a way to do that.

But, again, most of that cost is my A/C. I have an early 1990s torchiere lamp in my garage. It draws 300w whenever I turn it on. So, my threshold of what is reasonable is definitely higher than others I suppose. I really don't see $20 a month extra any kind of a hit compared to the $400 or more my A/C tacks on during the summer.

 

[uller6]

My power bill this month is $112. During August it can climb over $550.

Now, if you tell me I can have around a $100 bill in August by turning off all my computers or replacing them with more efficient ones, then yeah, I'd probably figure out a way to do that.

But, again, most of that cost is my A/C. I have an early 1990s torchiere lamp in my garage. It draws 300w whenever I turn it on. So, my threshold of what is reasonable is definitely higher than others I suppose. I really don't see $20 a month extra any kind of a hit compared to the $400 or more my A/C tacks on during the summer.

Like I said, everyone's threshold for reasonable power bills is different. I live in an old, leaky, victorian house in DC and have been trying to reduce my utility consumption for the past 5 years. I've been steadily reducing both electricity use and gas use by ~20% per year, but the total cost is still going up ~15% per year. As of 2022-2023 I'm paying around $60/month in the winter and $150/month in the summer for electricity with the AC on.

Also, keep in mind that running a few tower computers, with their heat output, will also make your AC units run harder to compensate. A few years ago I upgraded two of my old window unit ACs to inverter-driven ACs, which did make a noticeable impact on electrical bills. Old window AC units are real hogs. I put in ductless mini split heat pumps last year to get rid of all the window units and the electric bill is now down ~30% during the summer cooling season. LED bulbs are amazing. They will pay for themselves with savings in ~3 months. That 300W torchiere could become a 30W torchiere with the same light output.

For me, it's about saving literally thousands of dollars per year.

 

[eyoungren]

Like I said, everyone's threshold for reasonable power bills is different. I live in an old, leaky, victorian house in DC and have been trying to reduce my utility consumption for the past 5 years. I've been steadily reducing both electricity use and gas use by ~20% per year, but the total cost is still going up ~15% per year. As of 2022-2023 I'm paying around $60/month in the winter and $150/month in the summer for electricity with the AC on.

Also, keep in mind that running a few tower computers, with their heat output, will also make your AC units run harder to compensate. A few years ago I upgraded two of my old window unit ACs to inverter-driven ACs, which did make a noticeable impact on electrical bills. Old window AC units are real hogs. I put in ductless mini split heat pumps last year to get rid of all the window units and the electric bill is now down ~30% during the summer cooling season. LED bulbs are amazing. They will pay for themselves with savings in ~3 months. That 300W torchiere could become a 30W torchiere with the same light output.

For me, it's about saving literally thousands of dollars per year.

I would replace our portable A/C units and window units if I could afford to fix the 5-ton A/C. We have central, the house was built in 2008. But the A/C unit inside the house rusted out and finally gave out in July 2020. I've been told that a 5-ton A/C is way overkill anyway, but I wasn't the original party that had the house built.

We are actually using LED bulbs. I replace as we go all the CCFLs that came with the house. That's a laziness factor - I hate changing bulbs and LEDs promise me I won't have to do it for a really long time.

At some point I intend to have someone come in and find all the leaks in the house. Our HOA mandated getting the house painted in late 2019 and they had to remove one of the door seals. Not sure if they ever put it back right, but I've checked and I can't find anything wrong. But once we can afford that and fixing the A/C then I'll know just how much I'm getting hit by the A/C and how much by the computers.

Incidentally, quite a few of them are outside in the garage. So, they are not affecting inside temps. I do have to shut them off during the summer though. As to the lamp, not ready to let that go yet. It's Halogen and it does a pretty good job at attracting and killing any bugs in the garage.

 

[friendofthai]

The 3,1 is the 2.8GHz 8-core version, while the 5,1 is the 2.8GHz 4-core version from 2010.

3.1 has much better value for money.

And you can use modern macOS with it. You can install Ventura with a Kepler card without video acceleration, install Musse kext, install a RX560 or even RX550(using ID spoofing) and reinstall OCLP root patch (use safe mode boot).
And then the system will work fine.
You can even overclock to 3.2Ghz using automatic overclocking solution during macOS startup:

GitHub - mkrasnorutsky/MacProOverclockUtility: Mac Pro 1.1, 2.1 & 3.1 Overclock utility

Mac Pro 1.1, 2.1 & 3.1 Overclock utility. Contribute to mkrasnorutsky/MacProOverclockUtility development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

But the system performance will increase greatly after you simply delete a single file at location:
/System/Library/Extensions/IOPlatformPluginFamily.kext/Contents/PlugIns/ACPI_SMC_PlatformPlugin.kext/Contents/Resources/MacPro3_1.plist

 

[840quadra]

Coming from an M1 MacBook Pro, or even an iPad, both of these machines are slow in many aspects* . With many applications often using single core, the old Xeon systems benchmarking mid 300s to 500s in Geekbench as compared to a MacBook M1 in the 2,000s, both machines can feel slow / throttled when using basic applications.

*As a collector I fully understand there is far more to these systems than simple benchmarks!

When you start to use applications that are Metal + SMP aware, the systems start to come into their own. When you start to fill them with large drives, PCIE cards, and turn on (or install) server services, these will do far more (and more attractively) than a newer Mac mini or laptop can within their own singular case. I honestly think of my 5,1 and 3,1 as being tractors of the house. They are stable, reliable, built well, and in some cases can be a bit slow but will always get the job done.

While I love my 3,1 machine, the more future forward SSE instructions, ability to support newer GPU models, and Hyper-threading really make the 5,1 a wise choice if you can only have one. I do feel fortunate to have both, having acquired my 4,1 (flashed 5,1) 8 years ago and was given an 8 core 3,1 last fall.

The 3,1 is a bit more media consumption but is also a backup to my 5,1 whenever I am in an upgrade cycle. Both computers are used (in turn) to run 6 - 7 server services I use in my home and away.

 

[mikiotty]

I ended up getting both 🤣
The 5,1 was really cheap and now rocks a X5690, 24GB of 1333MHz RAM, RX580, a PCIe NVMe SSD, two 2TB hard drives in RAID 1, an upgraded WiFi-BT card (with external antenna for BT) and macOS Monterey (tried Ventura and Sonoma but Monterey is so much better), all for under 150€.

The 3,1 was gifted to me as spares and, after replacing the logic board with a 40€ one from eBay, now runs Sonoma with a flashed R9 280X, 32GB of RAM and a 2TB RAID 1.
I use the 5,1 daily and I absolutely love it, while the 3,1 is used for testing and media consumption.