MP 1,1-5,1 Mac Pro 4,1 not booting or chime after attempted upgrades

[Inluminator]

I am hoping someone here will be able to help me solve an issue that I have run into with my Mac Pro 4,1. It was working before I attempted to upgrade it with the flash to 5,1 firmware completed.

What is had before attempted upgrade:
-single Intel 2.66Ghz 4 core W3520
-Nvidia gt120
-12gb of 1333mhz ECC ram (3x4gb)
-3 HDDs (2 x 1TB, 1 x 4TB)
-running High Sierra

What I had attempted to upgrade to:
-AMD Vega 56
-Intel 3.46Ghz 6 core X5690
-If these had worked I was going to update the OS to Mojave but didn't get that far

Strange behavior:
-no boot
-no chime
-no red lights for missing ram when they are removed

The first moment I ran into issues was when swapping out the graphics card since that was the first part I received just to test it out. Ever since I have been trying to find a combination where the computer will boot, to no avail. I even have cleaned the case out, replaced the 3V battery, check all the DIAG LEDs, and any resets that I could do (since no peripherals will work). I checked the heat-sink rivets and they are still good. I have been going through the service manual for the 4,1 to see if I can find anything that might help. I confirmed from the sellers that the parts I received were tested prior to purchase. I have looked what feels like everywhere for what the solution might be but still haven't found something that got the computer to boot again.

If anyone knows what I can do to help gets this computer running again I would be immensely grateful because I was planning on using this computer for video editing.

 

[h9826790]

I am hoping someone here will be able to help me solve an issue that I have run into with my Mac Pro 4,1. It was working before I attempted to upgrade it with the flash to 5,1 firmware completed.

What is had before attempted upgrade:
-single Intel 2.66Ghz 4 core W3520
-Nvidia gt120
-12gb of 1333mhz ECC ram (3x4gb)
-3 HDDs (2 x 1TB, 1 x 4TB)
-running High Sierra

What I had attempted to upgrade to:
-AMD Vega 56
-Intel 3.46Ghz 6 core X5690
-If these had worked I was going to update the OS to Mojave but didn't get that far

Strange behavior:
-no boot
-no chime
-no red lights for missing ram when they are removed

The first moment I ran into issues was when swapping out the graphics card since that was the first part I received just to test it out. Ever since I have been trying to find a combination where the computer will boot, to no avail. I even have cleaned the case out, replaced the 3V battery, check all the DIAG LEDs, and any resets that I could do (since no peripherals will work). I checked the heat-sink rivets and they are still good. I have been going through the service manual for the 4,1 to see if I can find anything that might help. I confirmed from the sellers that the parts I received were tested prior to purchase. I have looked what feels like everywhere for what the solution might be but still haven't found something that got the computer to boot again.

If anyone knows what I can do to help gets this computer running again I would be immensely grateful because I was planning on using this computer for video editing.

My recommendation is only do one upgrade at a time. Especially the things that may cause the computer can't boot.

Anyway, in your case, I suggest you put the W3520 back in first. Also, when you do this, carefully examine if you bent any pins in the socket by accident.

TBH, graphic card can cause no boot, but the cMP can boot headness. You can simply remove the graphic card and turn on your cMP. If no chime, then it's not the graphic card's issue.

If your cMP cannot POST with GT120 or without any graphic card. Then the biggest suspect is the CPU (or the socket). So, the next step should be swap the W3520 back in to confirm if the X5690 itself is faulty.

 

[h9826790]

I assume you have the latest High Sierra, which support Vega 56 by default.

So, if your cMP can boot with W3520. You can swap in the Vega and check if that works.

Once confirmed the Vega works as expected, you can re-try the X5690.

N.B. Since you are already running High Sierra, I assume you did the 5,1 BootROM upgrade correctly, and run High Sierra natively. But if you are running patched High Sierra, please dump out your 5,1's BootROM and double check if it's really a 5,1 firwmare now.

 

[Macschrauber]

It can be everything, from a faulty psu, backplane, cpu board or damage by taking it apart and cleaning.

It can be a firmware problem, one test could be: try to boot without the rtc battery plugged in.

Or it simply has not a 5,1 firmware so the new Xeon is not supported.

New parts could be defective or been destroyed by ESD.

My advice is to get a low price 4.1 as a test machine and test all parts. If it was cheep enough keep it for spares or sell it after the repair.

 

[mattspace]

It can be a firmware problem, one test could be: try to boot without the rtc battery plugged in.

What does that test / what's the result of booting without the battery?

 

[Macschrauber]

What does that test / what's the result of booting without the battery?

as @tsialex told it bypasses the NVRAM and so a problem in it could be tracked.

 

[carylee2002]

Ok...Go back to the beginning with your original setup. Make sure you have thermal paste on the CPU...if not it over heats and won't boot. Also make sure the heatsink is seated correctly on the CPU. If there is a gap, then that too is a problem. I always used Arctic Silver 5 for my thermal paste...but that is what I had around from past PC builds. IF that boots up then do make sure you flashed your 5,1 correctly. You can check that out by seeing the bios number when looking a system preferences and look at about your mac. Youtube has many videos on this. In addition try this method with only your system SSD installed and remove any other non system drives till it get working correctly.

 

[Inluminator]

My recommendation is only do one upgrade at a time. Especially the things that may cause the computer can't boot.

Anyway, in your case, I suggest you put the W3520 back in first. Also, when you do this, carefully examine if you bent any pins in the socket by accident.

TBH, graphic card can cause no boot, but the cMP can boot headness. You can simply remove the graphic card and turn on your cMP. If no chime, then it's not the graphic card's issue.

If your cMP cannot POST with GT120 or without any graphic card. Then the biggest suspect is the CPU (or the socket). So, the next step should be swap the W3520 back in to confirm if the X5690 itself is faulty.

I tried swapping back GPUs when I wasn't able to get the Vega 56 to work. Though I couldn't get the computer to boot by swapping back to the GT120. This was when I started to do some digging and experimented with what I learned to see if it would help me get the computer running again.

What I do know is it isn't the GPU because when I remove everything except for the processor I should be getting red lights for missing RAM but that doesn't happen. So I am not sure if it is the Backplane or something related to the CPU tray.

For High Sierra, Yes, it was the latest version that I had on the computer.

For the 5,1 BootROM, I was mindful to follow each step carefully and was confirmed to be working. Though now if I wanted to dump the 5,1 BootROM I would have to first be able to boot my computer.

Does that help clarify the issues I am running into?

 

[Inluminator]

It can be everything, from a faulty psu, backplane, cpu board or damage by taking it apart and cleaning.

It can be a firmware problem, one test could be: try to boot without the rtc battery plugged in.

Or it simply has not a 5,1 firmware so the new Xeon is not supported.

New parts could be defective or been destroyed by ESD.

My advice is to get a low price 4.1 as a test machine and test all parts. If it was cheep enough keep it for spares or sell it after the repair.

I did try booting the computer with and without the RTC battery. Still ran into the same issue of no boot or display.

My best guess is that it may be with the CPU tray or the Backplane. From what I have tested and read the PSU doesn't seem to be faulty. Power is consistent and functions as it should, no strange light behaviours or cutting of power.

The strangest thing I encountered has been when I was following the service manual and was working my way from square one, by adding one component in at a time. When it came to installing the CPU tray, with either processor, without any RAM, I was expecting to get the red LED lights indicating an error with the RAM but that doesn't happen.

 

[h9826790]

I tried swapping back GPUs when I wasn't able to get the Vega 56 to work. Though I couldn't get the computer to boot by swapping back to the GT120. This was when I started to do some digging and experimented with what I learned to see if it would help me get the computer running again.

What I do know is it isn't the GPU because when I remove everything except for the processor I should be getting red lights for missing RAM but that doesn't happen. So I am not sure if it is the Backplane or something related to the CPU tray.

For High Sierra, Yes, it was the latest version that I had on the computer.

For the 5,1 BootROM, I was mindful to follow each step carefully and was confirmed to be working. Though now if I wanted to dump the 5,1 BootROM I would have to first be able to boot my computer.

Does that help clarify the issues I am running into?

Got it.

So, did you swap the W3520 back in yet?

 

[carylee2002]

I did try booting the computer with and without the RTC battery. Still ran into the same issue of no boot or display.

My best guess is that it may be with the CPU tray or the Backplane. From what I have tested and read the PSU doesn't seem to be faulty. Power is consistent and functions as it should, no strange light behaviours or cutting of power.

The strangest thing I encountered has been when I was following the service manual and was working my way from square one, by adding one component in at a time. When it came to installing the CPU tray, with either processor, without any RAM, I was expecting to get the red LED lights indicating an error with the RAM but that doesn't happen.

Try starting with only one stick of ram in the 1st slot and see if it boot thats way...The starting process my not have gone as far into the startup because of lack of ram to save the computer.

 

[Inluminator]

Got it.

So, did you swap the W3520 back in yet?

Not yet but I will try that and keep you posted.

 

[Inluminator]

Try starting with only one stick of ram in the 1st slot and see if it boot thats way...The starting process my not have gone as far into the startup because of lack of ram to save the computer.

I will try that and see if that helps. I will share the results when done.

 

[Inluminator]

So I swapped back in all the original parts (W3520 and GT120) and turned on the computer but it still wouldn't boot or output video. What else can I try to narrow down the issue?

 

[h9826790]

So I swapped back in all the original parts (W3520 and GT120) and turned on the computer but it still wouldn't boot or output video. What else can I try to narrow down the issue?

Carefully check any bend pin in the CPU socket (you may need magnifying glass to do it properly).

 

[Inluminator]

Carefully check any bend pin in the CPU socket (you may need magnifying glass to do it properly).

Checked the pins and none have been bent. Any other possibilities?

 

[Gymnut]

When I did this with a dual processor 4,1 over 10 years ago it felt more art than science getting it back together. The stock CPUs are lidless and the CPUs we've been upgrading them with are not. If I recall, I added metal washers around both of the heatsink posts to accommodate for the increased height so as to not crunch the CPU/socket when I tightened them down. I measured the height of the stock CPU as well as the upgraded ones with a micrometer and found the right thickness and amount of washers. I also even went as so far as to count the number of full turns it took to loosen the heat sink screws when I did the disassembly and repeated the same for when I put the new processors in(I did this upgrade twice ending with the 5690s). It could be the heatsink isn't on tight enough and requires tightening; gently, of course and diagonally.

 

[Gymnut]

I should also add: I also added thicker thermal pads as well.

 

[Gymnut]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2009-8-core-mac-pro-cpu-upgrade.1505370/?post=16595556#post-16595556

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/done-it-nehalem-w5590-octad-3-33-ghz.781908/

Upgrading and Analyzing Apple's Nehalem Mac Pro

www.anandtech.com

 

[Macschrauber]

Aint we talking about a single CPU machine with heatsink In this thread?

 

[Macschrauber]

Worth a shot is cleaning the thermal pads residue around the voltage controllers with isopropyl alcohol.

let it dry long enough.

 

[Gymnut]

Fairly certain the same procedures would apply whether it be one CPU or two. When I first did the upgrade, the machine wouldn't boot and it was only after tightening down the heatsinks did it start up.

 

[Macschrauber]

The lever on the CPU socket does the pressure on a single or a 5.1 dual cpu board.

It's the first time I heard that it has an effect in a socket for a lidded CPU.

For a quick (just to hear the bong and shut down) test I sometimes just set the CPU in without the heat sink.

Never try this with a 4.1 dual tray, of course.

 

[h9826790]

Fairly certain the same procedures would apply whether it be one CPU or two. When I first did the upgrade, the machine wouldn't boot and it was only after tightening down the heatsinks did it start up.

Very different. The dual processor 2009 Mac Pro is the only model that use lidless CPU.

The single processor model always use normal lidded CPU. The CPU tightness is NOT controlled by the heatsink, but the socket has a clip to manage it.

Checked the pins and none have been bent. Any other possibilities?

Of course it can be hardware failure right at the time you upgrade the CPU. However, I tend to believe you damaged something during the upgrade.

Another possibility is that some dust getting into the connector between the logic board and the CPU tray, you may have a look, or just give them a good blow.

Anyway, if possible, please post a picture (as close as possible, as large as possible, as clear as possible) of the socket pins. So that other members can also help to check if any socket pin is bent / missing.

 

[Gymnut]

Ah, I stand corrected; I was always under the assumption that both the single and dual processor models used lidless CPUs.