Mac Pro 5.1 (2012) still worth it in 2018?

[Eneco]

Surprising you say Dual CPU is not a positive thing. I run Digital Performer... it makes full use of all cores (physical and virtual) in my dual-hex machine. I though just about all DAW software made good use of all cores; it's the nature of the beast: lots of independent tasks running simultaneously.

I din't say Dual CPU is per se a bad thing. It just won't make sense for the software I use (Nuendo). The manufacturer itself advises to use a single CPU. There are also some people reporting on the support forum about their performance having dropped after they upgraded to a multi CPU setup.

As long as your software can handle a dual CPU it's a good thing.

From that reseller you mentioned - Mac-Factory ? - you can also buy a PCIe card that holds two 2.5" SSDs, which should be (software) raid0 capable . Also one for a single SSD .
Assumably similar to OWC and Sonnet products, but a bit cheaper . Haven't tried them, though .

Or go with an NVME blade + cheap adapter, for files (not boot) and if you run a current OSX .
AHCI SSD blades are silly expensive right now ...

But do you need more speed than a fairly cheap single SSD on a SATAIII PCIe card will provide ?
Btw., the Crucial MX500 1TB SSD is at a pretty low price right now in Germany .

Yep, exactly that reseller. I was looking at the Sonnet Tempo Pro Plus. Will have to check the one of the reseller out. As far as I know you can get 500 MB/s max with a PCIe SATA SSD. That's what I'm getting with my MacBook right now and I'd like my new machine to be an upgrade. But as it seems too expensive I will have to go with a SSD Raid 0 or the single SSD.

The Samsung 860 is also quite affordable right now. Same price as the Crucial.

 

[DPUser]

I din't say Dual CPU is per se a bad thing. It just won't make sense for the software I use (Nuendo). The manufacturer itself advises to use a single CPU. There are also some people reporting on the support forum about their performance having dropped after they upgraded to a multi CPU setup.

That surprises me. Thanks for the info.

 

[Simon R.]

I am surprised that dual CPU doesn't work well in Nuendo - I use my Mac Pro for Logic and the upgrade from one 6-core to a dual 6-core has made a huge performance difference here.

 

[Eneco]

I am surprised that dual CPU doesn't work well in Nuendo - I use my Mac Pro for Logic and the upgrade from one 6-core to a dual 6-core has made a huge performance difference here.

Well, the Mac Pro is made by Apple as well as Logic is made by Apple. Of course they optimise their own software to run as good as possible on their own machines. With 3rd party software it's a whole different story.

 

[Simon R.]

Well, the Mac Pro is made by Apple as well as Logic is made by Apple. Of course they optimise their own software to run as good as possible on their own machines. With 3rd party software it's a whole different story.

Not really talking Logic per se - most of the CPU in my setup is actually used by 3rd party apps hosted to/connected to Logic: Vienna Ensemble Pro and Kontakt mainly. I would think the same performance gains would be seen with any DAW software if you use it for sample streaming/plugins.

 

[Eneco]

I'm in contact right now with the Steinberg support to figure out what configuration would be best for Nuendo. For 3rd party plugins I'm not really sure how much influence the hosting app has, to be honest. Maybe you're right. But nevertheless I think it's important for the DAW itself to run stable and smooth as it's processing all the signals in the end.

 

[Upgrader]

Hey folks,

Since Apple hasn't released any new hardware this year and the modulare Mac Pro seems miles ahead, I was wondering if, with all the upgrade options, the Mac Pro 5.1 is still worth it in 2018.

The Scenario

I'm a Composer and Sound Designer for Film / TV and Games. Right now I'm working (believe it or not) on a Macbook Pro (2013) hooked up to a Thunderbolt Display. So far this machine hasn't let me down, but working on games is a nightmare with the low speced GPU. Therefore I want to step up my game and invest in a real pro machine.

MacBook Pro 15" (Early 2013): i7 @ 2,7 GHz / 16 GB RAM / GT 650m / 500 GB SSD

The Candidates

iMac Pro: Well, the technical specs sound great, but the price is way off. Even though the basic version with 8 cores would be totally fine for me, it's still 4.800€ here in Europe. Just something I'm not really comfortable with spening on a non-upgradable machine.

Mac Pro (Trash can): A 5 year old machine with no upgrade options and a high price tag ... seems like the worst deal. Nope, that's not going to happen.

Mac Pro (2012): Even older than the trash can, but its huge advantage are the PCIe slots. it can be upgraded to my own needs even with the latest tech. Of course I may have to run special drivers but that should not be a problem. I would go for the 12 core 3,46 GHz version, 32GB RAM (for now), 1 TB SSD, a decent GPU and the USB 3.0 card.

The Question

I already calculated the costs and it would be around 1.500 €. Is it even in 2018 still a good deal to invest in such a machine? As far as I understand it, I can upgrade the RAM, the GPU, drives and USB-C by the time needing. Only the CPU will be limited to the available option.

Any help, experience or thoughts are appreciated.

I bought an 8 core 4,1 and flashed it to a 5,1 four years ago. In fact the whole reason I’m on this forum was to research and learn to enable my upgrade project. I upgraded the procs to dual 3.46ghz, added 48gb ram, installed 2 PCIe ssd’s. It was fun to do and a rewarding experience. I’ve recently upgraded the native GT120 to an AMD RX580 which has allowed me to upgrade from my Apple Cinema Displays to 2 Dell U2715H’s and run Mojave which gives even more life to the machine.

I use After Effects and Cinema 4D. AE is still crap at multi threading but using the Render Garden plugin will max out all 24 threads. It smashes renders and Mpeg h264 encodes. C4D also maxes the cores when rendering. I’d like a touch more single core speed on the day to day stuff but it’s not a deal breaker and I wish Adobe would hurry up and multi thread AE from the ground up. With NVMe drives receiving native boot support on Mojave 10.4.2 I predict I’ll get another 4 years out of this machine, maybe more. For £2500 overall cost it has been, and will continue to be, excellent value for money. Plus as a professional it’s all tax deductible.

I have eyed the iMac Pro and would love to buy an 8 core for the day to day single core speed and have the cMP as a render farm but the poor upgradability of the iMac Pro stops me. I’m looking forward to the next modular Mac Pro. If it’s a winner then my cMP will have served as a perfect stop gap.

 

[DPUser]

Not really talking Logic per se - most of the CPU in my setup is actually used by 3rd party apps hosted to/connected to Logic: Vienna Ensemble Pro and Kontakt mainly. I would think the same performance gains would be seen with any DAW software if you use it for sample streaming/plugins.

+1

 

[Eneco]

Thanks everybody for your advice. I'm a proud owner of a cMP since 2 months. The specs are in my signature. It has been absolutely worth it so far. With bootable NVMe drives ahead, modern GPU support and PCIe Slots I think this machine will serve me well in the future. The only bottleneck will be CPU. But as for now, I don't even come close to maxing out the cores.

 

[xxspirit4musicx]

You people don’t appreciate the Gravity of a straight forward answer. Him & I want to know an answer to this question: If we purchase an A-Grade “Mac Pro,” how many years will it function and last? If we keep it powered off for a long time, will that expand its lifespan? We need this question answered.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^There is no straight forward answer. Everyone is different, everyone has different needs, wants, levels of expertise, what they expect out of a computer and etc. I bought my 2010 after the Trash cans were released. I knew they weren't for me. It replaced a 2008 3,1 cMP. Everything has been upgraded and replaced. The PS just last week. The only internal component that's still in the machine is the OEM WD HDD. There other platter drive is a Seagate SSHD. The other 5 drives are all SSDs.

Would I buy one today - Yep. I cleaned cleaned mine out a couple weeks ago with compressed air. I still marvel at it's elegant design.

Lou

 

[startergo]

Thanks everybody for your advice. I'm a proud owner of a cMP since 2 months. The specs are in my signature. It has been absolutely worth it so far. With bootable NVMe drives ahead, modern GPU support and PCIe Slots I think this machine will serve me well in the future. The only bottleneck will be CPU. But as for now, I don't even come close to maxing out the cores.

You might wanna see the specs for the new mac mini on 30th of October. it may be a good candidate for your needs:
https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/mac-mini-2018-3472956/

 

[ObiJuan2080]

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Apple but this recent lack of GPU support from Apple for nvidia cards is a total prick move, I don't care what direction "The Market" is going in (eGPUs).

Right now I'm on High Sierra 10.13.6 and in order to get Mojave and extend the life of my MP 5,1 I have to either go AMD *barf*, downgrade to an older supported card or stay where I'm at with 10.13.6 maxing out the MP 5,1 which by todays tech, is kind of looking slow. I'm a filmmaker and photographer, I need an upgrade on my GPU, which currently is the GTX 980, as I'm looking to move to DaVinci Resolve, a GPU hungry software for colorist.

This lack of support is making me look in the direction of PC and now I'm looking to build one. I've already priced one out only using New Egg;


Processor: Intel Core i9-7940X Skylake X 14-Core 3.1 GHz LGA 2066 BX80673I97940X Desktop Processor

$1,129.99



Motherboard: GIGABYTE Z390 AORUS ULTRA LGA 1151 (300 Series) Intel Z390 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard

$239.24



RAM: CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000 (PC4 24000) Desktop Memory Model CMK32GX4M4D3000C16

$279.99



GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC Black Edition GAMING, 11G-P4-6393-KR, 11GB GDDR5X, iCX Cooler & LED

$1,250



Main HDD for OS and Applications: SAMSUNG 970 PRO M.2 2280 1TB PCIe Gen3. X4, NVMe 1.3 64L V-NAND 2-bit MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-V7P1T0BW

$393.38


Chassis: Corsair Graphite Series 760T Black Full Tower Windowed Case

$139.99


Power Supply: Seasonic FOCUS Plus Series SSR-850PX 850W 80+ Platinum ATX12V & EPS12V Full Modular 120mm FDB Fan 10 Years Warranty Compact 140 mm Size Power Supply

$134.12


$3,566.71 excluding taxes and that's just bare bones. The motherboard future proofs the computer as I tend to upgrade to the 18 Core 7980XE, 64GB of faster RAM and to the 2080Ti GPU later on in 2019, I might not even need to, to be honest. And it's going to be my offline editor cause let's face it guys, Windows isn't a bad OS until you connect it's frail, vulnerable @$$ to the internet. That's when the problems start. Like if the boy in the bubble took a chance, got out and inhaled...just once lol.

Taking a look at a comparable iMac Pro 14 core Xeon, 32GB 2666MHz and the default Radeon Pro Vega 56 with 8GB of HBM2 memory GPU, Apple is looking to charge $6,599 for the setup. I'm paying more for slower Ram and a less than stellar GPU. The only worth while thing here is the processor but that alone isn't enough to merit a $6,000+ price tag. I really don't want to switch over to PC but this decision, which is looking to be final by Apple, is really messing things up bad for my workflow. I might not have a choice. I won't make any final decisions until January of 2019, if by then Apple hasn't signed off on nvidia drivers, I have to switch over.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^If you want to build a Hackintosh, personally I don't, look here:

https://www.tonymacx86.com/buyersguide/building-a-customac-hackintosh-the-ultimate-buyers-guide/

I'm sticking with my 5,1 and my GTX 1080 for the near future, hoping Apple comes to it's senses.

Lou

 

[alphaod]

You people don’t appreciate the Gravity of a straight forward answer. Him & I want to know an answer to this question: If we purchase an A-Grade “Mac Pro,” how many years will it function and last? If we keep it powered off for a long time, will that expand its lifespan? We need this question answered.

I ran my 2009 Mac Pro (that I bought new) never turning it off (except for occasional service, upgrades, cleaning) for six years until I got my 2013 Mac Pro. Earlier this year, I took it out of my storage and did the MacPro4,1 to 5,1 upgrade with eBay X5690 processors, and I put in a RX580 removed from my eGPU and again it's running all the time, but less workloads now. I use it mainly for network Compressor duty and some VM stuff. It's still perfect to this day.

 

[pl1984]

Right now I'm on High Sierra 10.13.6 and in order to get Mojave and extend the life of my MP 5,1 I have to either go AMD *barf*, downgrade to an older supported card or stay where I'm at with 10.13.6 maxing out the MP 5,1 which by todays tech, is kind of looking slow. I'm a filmmaker and photographer, I need an upgrade on my GPU, which currently is the GTX 980, as I'm looking to move to DaVinci Resolve, a GPU hungry software for colorist.

IMO this is Apple discontinuing support for the cMP without officially discontinuing it.

 

[ObiJuan2080]

IMO this is Apple discontinuing support for the cMP without officially discontinuing it.

Deep down I kind of knew :/

 

[USmacs]

Hey folks,

Since Apple hasn't released any new hardware this year and the modulare Mac Pro seems miles ahead, I was wondering if, with all the upgrade options, the Mac Pro 5.1 is still worth it in 2018.

The Scenario

I'm a Composer and Sound Designer for Film / TV and Games. Right now I'm working (believe it or not) on a Macbook Pro (2013) hooked up to a Thunderbolt Display. So far this machine hasn't let me down, but working on games is a nightmare with the low speced GPU. Therefore I want to step up my game and invest in a real pro machine.

MacBook Pro 15" (Early 2013): i7 @ 2,7 GHz / 16 GB RAM / GT 650m / 500 GB SSD

The Candidates

iMac Pro: Well, the technical specs sound great, but the price is way off. Even though the basic version with 8 cores would be totally fine for me, it's still 4.800€ here in Europe. Just something I'm not really comfortable with spening on a non-upgradable machine.

Mac Pro (Trash can): A 5 year old machine with no upgrade options and a high price tag ... seems like the worst deal. Nope, that's not going to happen.

Mac Pro (2012): Even older than the trash can, but its huge advantage are the PCIe slots. it can be upgraded to my own needs even with the latest tech. Of course I may have to run special drivers but that should not be a problem. I would go for the 12 core 3,46 GHz version, 32GB RAM (for now), 1 TB SSD, a decent GPU and the USB 3.0 card.

The Question

I already calculated the costs and it would be around 1.500 €. Is it even in 2018 still a good deal to invest in such a machine? As far as I understand it, I can upgrade the RAM, the GPU, drives and USB-C by the time needing. Only the CPU will be limited to the available option.

Any help, experience or thoughts are appreciated.

You can't get a batter bang for your buck than a cheese grater with the upgrades you mention. They are still a staple workhorse for many pro users. I'm writing this on one.

 

[norda72]

I just upgraded my Mac Pro 5.1 Quadcore to 12 core (2x3,06 GHz), but I am deeply disappointed. I see no difference in speed with the new processor tray. I thought I should get a superfast machine with start up in a few seconds and installations much faster. Nothing happened. I guess it is the SSD-limitation on SATA III, but I am surprised that I haven´t noticed anything. Do I need more memory (32 GB is not much)?

 

[Upgrader]

I just upgraded my Mac Pro 5.1 Quadcore to 12 core (2x3,06 GHz), but I am deeply disappointed. I see no difference in speed with the new processor tray. I thought I should get a superfast machine with start up in a few seconds and installations much faster. Nothing happened. I guess it is the SSD-limitation on SATA III, but I am surprised that I haven´t noticed anything. Do I need more memory (32 GB is not much)?

I'm guessing by Quadcore you mean 8 core?

Re boot up times - nobody boots to their desktop in a few seconds. The way to improve your boot times is to install a PCIe adaptor card and SSD, ideally in slot 2. This is the most obvious way to observe a day to day speed increase.

Multi-Processor speed increases are noticeable if you use proc' hungry apps - so I can crunch through renders with all 24 cores maxed out in Cinema 4D or using Render Garden for AE. Or maybe try encoding in Handbrake or AME - you'll see an increase in power there.

32gb RAM is a decent amount depending on what apps you use. I use After Effects so 48GB works well for me.

 

[JeffPerrin]

I can't say how frustrating (and sad) it is that the cPM is the best Mac workstation you can buy in 2019. Brings me back to early 2012 when I needed to upgrade from G5 to Intel, wanting and expecting new technologies like Thunderbolt and USB 3. When the 2012 Mac Pro was released, I was so pissed off that I had to spend $2500 on a machine with three-year old tech (old CPU and GPUs, USB 2 and no TB)! Seven years later... here we are still wondering when Apple is going to give us the machine we want, NOT the machine they think we need?

 

[pl1984]

I just upgraded my Mac Pro 5.1 Quadcore to 12 core (2x3,06 GHz), but I am deeply disappointed. I see no difference in speed with the new processor tray. I thought I should get a superfast machine with start up in a few seconds and installations much faster. Nothing happened. I guess it is the SSD-limitation on SATA III, but I am surprised that I haven´t noticed anything. Do I need more memory (32 GB is not much)?

Unless you utilize software which can make use of the extra cores adding more is unlikely to result in any perceptible speed.

Booting a system is primarily disk bound therefore it is not surprising to hear you did not observe an improvement in boot times. The SATA-II (it is not SATA-III) is unlikely to be an issue with your boot time. OS loading primarily consists of random reads which do not approach the limitations of the SATA-II interface. Therefore moving to SATA-III or NVMe will not appreciably improve boot time (courtesy h9826790):​

As you can see the boot times for the three different interfaces are essentially the same (the rightmost bar represents the configuration you have).

What do you use your Mac Pro for? What software are you using?

 

[flowrider]

I just upgraded my Mac Pro 5.1 Quadcore to 12 core (2x3,06 GHz), but I am deeply disappointed. I see no difference in speed with the new processor tray. I thought I should get a superfast machine with start up in a few seconds and installations much faster. Nothing happened. I guess it is the SSD-limitation on SATA III, but I am surprised that I haven´t noticed anything. Do I need more memory (32 GB is not much)?

The answer above this post is the correct answer. But to add a bit. Your processors are also a bit slow. Surprised you went for a new processor board and chose X5675 CPUs. You would have had better luck with X5677s (3.46 4 core X2).

As far as boot goes - It actually takes longer to boot with an NVME SSD than an AHCI or SATA SSD.

Lou

 

[kohlson]

I see no difference in speed with the new processor tray.

When I upgraded my 4x2.93 CPU to a 6-core 3.33, my initial reaction was: meh. By that I mean it did not boot any faster, and apps seem to start at about the same speed.
But it did process Handbrake jobs faster (almost linearly so). And seems to improve some performance aspects of After Effects and FCPX.
I had already installed a SATA SSD, both in a SATA bay and on a PCIe slot. This easily made the most visceral difference, and improved boot times, too. Note that I can't seem to notice much difference whether installed in the SATA on the PCIe slot.
Regarding RAM, you'll know you need more if Activity Monitor shows that you are running out of it. If you're not even close to using it all, reducing RAM will improve overall boot time (less to check). And certain RAM configurations improve CPU-RAM link speeds, delivering 5-sh percent improved benchmark improvements.

 

[gugy]

I have a 12 core 2010 MP.
Still rocks but it's getting old.
That said my current GPU is not compatible with Mojave. So my plan for this year is to update the GPU, add more RAM and SSDs and finally get an USB-C card on my spare PCI-e.
This should get me another couple years of solid performance for my After Effects/Photoshop and 3D apps.
I am excited about the upcoming MPs but as I can see Apple probably will charge too much for it. If the iMacPro base is $5k, I think the MP will be the same. Add the monitors, etc. Oh boy. I guess better save for now and upgrade my current MP.