Mac Pro 5,1 "Build"

[Blakehoo]

Thanks, I've used Resolve for editing and am hopeful 14 has improved on a few issues I struggled with. How do you find it?

Resolve is good...

I'll also bet it keeps improving ...for the upcoming Mac Pro release.

You can count on Blackmagic having support (or at least a heads-up) from APPLE on new features.

BTW: I don't want to be the price police, 3 x 16GB RAM easily can be gotten for under US$150 shipped and 4 x 8GB for US$90.
Like I said, RAM is cheap. Do that first.

 

[devon807]

Finally got a decent GPU in the Mac Pro, no more 960, 5770, or dual RX 560's. Enter the RX 580

BruceX Is right around 19s as expected. Overall great performer so far, less heat output than the dual 560's. No UI lag or stutters like the 560's either. 4K Playback is a breeze, as well as editing.

 

[fendersrule]

RX 580's are even better when they are undervolted! There's so much voltage left on the table due to poor optimization from AMD!

 

[devon807]

RX 580's are even better when they are undervolted! There's so much voltage left on the table due to poor optimization from AMD!

How does one go about doing this?

 

[h9826790]

How does one go about doing this?

You have to find out how far you can go in Windows. Using AMD native software (Wattman) is good enough, basically just keep running benchmark (e.g. Unigine Heaven), then lower the voltage until it crash, then raise that voltage by about 10mV. It's good enough to treat that as the minimum stable voltage in general (if in doubt, run Furmark with that setting).

Then you need to dump the ROM from your RX580, edit the ROM image according to your finding. And then flash it back into your card.

Once you finish this process. The setting will stay on the card even you boot into MacOS.

 

[devon807]

I cant seem to get the RX 580 to work in bootcamp. Any ideas?

 

[h9826790]

I cant seem to get the RX 580 to work in bootcamp. Any ideas?

It should be very straight forward, just install the AMD driver then you are good to go. What's wrong in your case?

 

[devon807]

It should be very straight forward, just install the AMD driver then you are good to go. What's wrong in your case?

I'm getting a black screen every time I go to boot into W10, which drivers do I need? It works fine with the 5770

 

[Squuiid]

I'm getting a black screen every time I go to boot into W10, which drivers do I need? It works fine with the 5770

Did you install Windows in UEFI or Legacy mode?

 

[fendersrule]

EFI installation, no problem with first-time boot with RX 580 in Windows 10, or subsequent booting.

Black screen sometimes mean = give it more time. I had this issue, but only after I used a video card driver uninstall app, and basically it took 3-4 minutes of black screen for my login finally appeared upon a restart.
[doublepost=1507306138][/doublepost]

Finally got a decent GPU in the Mac Pro, no more 960, 5770, or dual RX 560's. Enter the RX 580 View attachment 723213

Here's my MSI RX 580 8G Reference's score:

 

[pierrox]

Interesting thread. I'm looking for a replacement for my GTX 980Ti and I'd like a "native" solution - i.e. no drivers to worry about, but I don't care about boot screen. Would be happy to still get good power in Resolve, but I mainly do editing with Media Composer, which doesn't really care about GPU - though it's not very happy with my Nvidia though, getting lots of glitches.

Currently on 10.12.6, not planning to move to HS until a few revs and until my apps of choice are fully working on it.
Should I go for a RX580 or a Vega RX 56?

 

[h9826790]

EFI installation, no problem with first-time boot with RX 580 in Windows 10, or subsequent booting.

Black screen sometimes mean = give it more time. I had this issue, but only after I used a video card driver uninstall app, and basically it took 3-4 minutes of black screen for my login finally appeared upon a restart.
[doublepost=1507306138][/doublepost]

Here's my MSI RX 580 8G Reference's score:

View attachment 723951

Is that 3-4 min black screen on happened on "restart"? Will it happen on a cold boot?
[doublepost=1507308269][/doublepost]

Interesting thread. I'm looking for a replacement for my GTX 980Ti and I'd like a "native" solution - i.e. no drivers to worry about, but I don't care about boot screen. Would be happy to still get good power in Resolve, but I mainly do editing with Media Composer, which doesn't really care about GPU - though it's not very happy with my Nvidia though, getting lots of glitches.

Currently on 10.12.6, not planning to move to HS until a few revs and until my apps of choice are fully working on it.
Should I go for a RX580 or a Vega RX 56?

If you don't really need that much GPU power, IMO, RX580 is much better than Vega 56.

The driver is more mature (even may be just tiny bit, it is more mature).

It has no power issue in cMP.

It's guarantee supported due to eGPU developer kit.

 

[fendersrule]

Can't recall. The 2-3 minute black screen happened after removing all the drivers using the tool (I wasn't in safe mode as I had problems getting into safe mode). I think it was upon a restart from MacOS into Windows. Windows probably just needed more time to initialize the graphics card without having any drivers installed. I have no other explanation for it.

 

[pierrox]

If you don't really need that much GPU power, IMO, RX580 is much better than Vega 56.
The driver is more mature (even may be just tiny bit, it is more mature).
It has no power issue in cMP.
It's guarantee supported due to eGPU developer kit.

That's good info, thanks for that!
Now I should try to get a Sapphire Pulse if I understand correctly what I read on this forum!

 

[Squuiid]

That's good info, thanks for that!
Now I should try to get a Sapphire Pulse if I understand correctly what I read on this forum!

Yep, the 8GB Pulse to be specific.

 

[h9826790]

That's good info, thanks for that!
Now I should try to get a Sapphire Pulse if I understand correctly what I read on this forum!

The PLUSE should be the most compatible one. However, any reference RX580 should work. In fact, I am thinking if I should get a Nitro+. I know that I am going to flash the card (not for EFI, but just downvolt it, or even try to make it "perform" like a PULSE in MacOS by some hex edit), so, dual ROM design is a much better choice for me.

 

[fendersrule]

No reason to overspend for a Pulse when you can just get the MSI reference. The pulse isn't impressive at all for the prices it's asking for with a measly boost clock of 1366. It's got a nice back-plate, but being that it's consistently $200 over the MSI makes it an easy "no".

I can confirm that the MSI RX 580 8G model is fully, 100% compatible with Sierra--aside from the PCi-e error and the incorrect "r9 xxxx" reading in "About this Mac". I tend to remember even the Pulse doing the same in Sierra. I think all of that is fixed in High Sierra.

Agreed with h98 in that having a dual rom system helps. Primarily helps if you want to downvolt while in MacOS. But if you're only in MacOS to do basic stuff, your card will be in idle mode anyways, so a downvolt won't be useful. Gaming with the RX 580 in MacOS is useless, even with a downvolt at this time. Frame rate on real, actual games, will be the same as with a 7950 from what I can tell. Synthetic benches will show a higher max FPS (and average), but will sometimes show a slightly lower minimum FPS. Downvolting with a RX 580 will help with having consistant GPU clock speeds, but the real trick (just as important) since the RX 580 is a thirsty card, is to be able to increase the power limit, which to my knowledge is not possible in MacOS. Can that be handled by a Bios flash as well?

 

[h9826790]

No reason to overspend for a Pulse when you can just get the MSI reference. The pulse isn't impressive at all for the prices it's asking for with a measly boost clock of 1366. It's got a nice back-plate, but being that it's consistently $200 over the MSI makes it an easy "no".

I can confirm that the MSI RX 580 8G model is fully, 100% compatible with Sierra--aside from the PCi-e error and the incorrect "r9 xxxx" reading in "About this Mac". I tend to remember even the Pulse doing the same in Sierra. I think all of that is fixed in High Sierra.

Agreed with h98 in that having a dual rom system helps. Primarily helps if you want to downvolt while in MacOS. But if you're only in MacOS to do basic stuff, your card will be in idle mode anyways, so a downvolt won't be useful. Gaming with the RX 580 in MacOS is useless, even with a downvolt at this time. Frame rate on real, actual games, will be the same as with a 7950 from what I can tell. Synthetic benches will show a higher max FPS (and average), but will sometimes show a slightly lower minimum FPS. Downvolting with a RX 580 will help with having consistant GPU clock speeds, but the real trick (just as important) since the RX 580 is a thirsty card, is to be able to increase the power limit, which to my knowledge is not possible in MacOS. Can that be handled by a Bios flash as well?

Yes, flash the VBIOS can control the power limit in MacOS.

 

[fendersrule]

That's great. I wonder if the Apple driver does nothing specific for the RX 580. My guess is that it keeps the power limit at +0, and it will force stock clocks (1340) regardless of your model, which it won't even hit consistently (more like 1150) due to the poor RX 580 voltage optimization. That's partly why the RX 580 performs "mediocre" in MacOS (mediocre means, closely same performance as 7950/680). The other huge part is really poorly optimized GPU drivers.

If you get the RX 580, I recommend +50ing the Power Limit, bump your clock to 1340-1360, and run an your mV @ 1060. 1040-1050 mV is very possible with 1340 stock speeds. I try to find the best for performance (to a degree) and don't worry too heavily lowest possible TDP. I'm not a miner, but a gamer. Finding the best of both worlds is fun, ain't it?

+50 power limit, 1360MHz clock, and 1060mV is more optimized for gaming. Probably a good reduction of 30 watts there (and much better, consistent performance). 1360MHz is held for all games or benchmarks 99.5% of the time. You may see a dip to 1350 every once in awhile, but it's rare and doesn't effect any benchmarks.

If you're OK with losing up to 1 FPS at 2k, then +50 power limit, 1340 clock, and 1040-1050mV would be a good target for the RX 580. Probably a good 35 watts reduction here.

Fan curves don't need to be touched. AMD has done a good job with this. Stock fan curves keep GPU temps in 70's range (with reference cooler). Thermal throttling won't even begin to happen until 90s are hit (I think), which probably won't ever happen unless you run your Mac Pro outside in the desert.

Either way the difference of undervolting the RX 580 is real. It's an absolute must if you use your GPU for anything at all. It's a win, win, win, win, and win, situation on all metrics.

Hopefully this helps. Check out my VR thread for more details related to gaming. Windows 10 benchmarks only though, since MacOS is unaffected....the MSI RX580 8G model does not have dual bios, and flashing a single bios card is a risky proposition. But I do like risks!

If you don't want to flash your card and spend most of your time in Windows 10, then I recommend using Wattman. DO NOT install Afterburner.

 

[devon807]

Did you install Windows in UEFI or Legacy mode?

How do you tell which installation? I used CD and bootcamp assistant

 

[fendersrule]

Best way is to have windows confirm for you: https://superuser.com/questions/946868/how-to-test-whether-windows-10-was-installed-with-uefi

But, I believe that using the regular method (bootcamp assistant), you probably have a Bios installation. Did you let the Black screen sit for awhile?

 

[devon807]

Best way is to have windows confirm for you: https://superuser.com/questions/946868/how-to-test-whether-windows-10-was-installed-with-uefi

But, I believe that using the regular method (bootcamp assistant), you probably have a Bios installation. Did you let the Black screen sit for awhile?

Ok, thak you for that link. Im am trying again now, but this time with the RX 580 installed, not the 5770.

 

[thomasthegps]

Finally got a decent GPU in the Mac Pro, no more 960, 5770, or dual RX 560's. Enter the RX 580 View attachment 723209 View attachment 723210 View attachment 723211 View attachment 723212 View attachment 723213

BruceX Is right around 19s as expected. Overall great performer so far, less heat output than the dual 560's. No UI lag or stutters like the 560's either. 4K Playback is a breeze, as well as editing.

From what I understand Apple's VDA api doesn't support hardware decoding on the GPU. Try downloading this video https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0Bxj6TUyM3NwjTmFBT2g2bV9zTlU
You'll probably see lag.

 

[devon807]

Thanks for all the help everyone! I got it up and running with W10. All it needed was a driver update, so I installed the 580 and 5770 at the same time so it could update.

 

[h9826790]

That's great. I wonder if the Apple driver does nothing specific for the RX 580. My guess is that it keeps the power limit at +0, and it will force stock clocks (1340) regardless of your model, which it won't even hit consistently (more like 1150) due to the poor RX 580 voltage optimization. That's partly why the RX 580 performs "mediocre" in MacOS (mediocre means, closely same performance as 7950/680). The other huge part is really poorly optimized GPU drivers.

If you get the RX 580, I recommend +50ing the Power Limit, bump your clock to 1340-1360, and run an your mV @ 1060. 1040-1050 mV is very possible with 1340 stock speeds. I try to find the best for performance (to a degree) and don't worry too heavily lowest possible TDP. I'm not a miner, but a gamer. Finding the best of both worlds is fun, ain't it?

+50 power limit, 1360MHz clock, and 1060mV is more optimized for gaming. Probably a good reduction of 30 watts there (and much better, consistent performance). 1360MHz is held for all games or benchmarks 99.5% of the time. You may see a dip to 1350 every once in awhile, but it's rare and doesn't effect any benchmarks.

If you're OK with losing up to 1 FPS at 2k, then +50 power limit, 1340 clock, and 1040-1050mV would be a good target for the RX 580. Probably a good 35 watts reduction here.

Fan curves don't need to be touched. AMD has done a good job with this. Stock fan curves keep GPU temps in 70's range (with reference cooler). Thermal throttling won't even begin to happen until 90s are hit (I think), which probably won't ever happen unless you run your Mac Pro outside in the desert.

Either way the difference of undervolting the RX 580 is real. It's an absolute must if you use your GPU for anything at all. It's a win, win, win, win, and win, situation on all metrics.

Hopefully this helps. Check out my VR thread for more details related to gaming. Windows 10 benchmarks only though, since MacOS is unaffected....the MSI RX580 8G model does not have dual bios, and flashing a single bios card is a risky proposition. But I do like risks!

If you don't want to flash your card and spend most of your time in Windows 10, then I recommend using Wattman. DO NOT install Afterburner.

All clock speed, power limit, and fan profile are controlled by the VBIOS in MacOS. The driver does not contain those parameter.

The test is very simple.

Run Luxmark at stock config, it will gives you are score and the GPU clock sleep as reference. Then, if …

Flash the card with a decent downvolt ROM. The score will go up straight away.

Flash the card with improper downvolt, it will crash when the benchmark start.

Flash the card with higher clock speed (assume no thermal throttling), the performance improved, and the new clock speed shows up.

Flash the card with higher clock speed and proper downvolt, the performance further go up.

Flash the card with power limit -20. Performance decrease straight away.

Flash the card with power limit +20 or +50 (depends on the card), the performance will go back up again with that single parameter changed.

Therefore, clearly all parameter in the VBIOS will be executed by the MacOS driver. And they are crucial.

I mod my R9 380 ROM a bit (just downvolt and keep power limit at +20, without touching the GPU core clock speed), it already make the card perform >10% better in MacOS.

For something like RX580, I am sure it can also compute a bit better in macOS if properly downvolt. However, not that critical.

But if that’s a Vega 56, and IF we can flash the ROM, highly likely we can make it just stay below the cMP’s mini 6pin shutdown limit. That can be a big difference for this card.