MP 1,1-5,1 Mac Pro 5,1 graphics card upgrade

[avro707]

I would return it unopened and get an 860 instead.
You don't want an item that 'might' work.

I might have to sell it, we are in lockdown so returning it to Victoria in Australia is very time consuming and difficult. I can buy an 860 anytime.

The video card has arrived earlier than expected but the power cables and the adapter cables (so I can use my Cinema Displays) have not arrived yet. So everything is at a pause for now.

 

[AlexMaximus]

I might have to sell it, we are in lockdown so returning it to Victoria in Australia is very time consuming and difficult. I can buy an 860 anytime.

The video card has arrived earlier than expected but the power cables and the adapter cables (so I can use my Cinema Displays) have not arrived yet. So everything is at a pause for now.

When it comes to SSD you may want to consider to buy a PCIe card for the newer form factor M.2 / NVME and put in the fastest slot #2 above the gpu. This will give you additional speed with 1500MB/sec. Those are a lot faster than the SATA version. Check out the sticky posts in the top section of the forum on SSDs. You will be very happy.
My MP 5.1 is easily the best computer I ever had. You will be very happy with the 580 as well.

 

[avro707]

When it comes to SSD you may want to consider to buy a PCIe card for the newer form factor M.2 / NVME and put in the fastest slot #2 above the gpu. This will give you additional speed with 1500MB/sec. Those are a lot faster than the SATA version. Check out the sticky posts in the top section of the forum on SSDs. You will be very happy.
My MP 5.1 is easily the best computer I ever had. You will be very happy with the 580 as well.

Thinking to get one of these:

msy.com.au | Best price and the name you can trust

Best quality computer pars & systems & services & lowest possible prices - the name you can trust

www.msy.com.au

If I get that one, will it work? And do I just need to buy that or some other adapter as well:

Like this? https://www.msy.com.au/auburn/expan...d-m-key-to-pci-e-x4-and-sata3-pci-e-card.html

Looking into it more, I might just not do anything for now until I get the new graphics card installed. Then I can get Mojave installed and the firmware update without going through hoops and hurdles.

 

[AlexMaximus]

Thinking to get one of these:

msy.com.au | Best price and the name you can trust

Best quality computer pars & systems & services & lowest possible prices - the name you can trust

www.msy.com.au

If I get that one, will it work? And do I just need to buy that or some other adapter as well:

Like this? https://www.msy.com.au/auburn/expan...d-m-key-to-pci-e-x4-and-sata3-pci-e-card.html

Looking into it more, I might just not do anything for now until I get the new graphics card installed. Then I can get Mojave installed and the firmware update without going through hoops and hurdles.

The Pro model is the fastest model that doesn't throttle, so you would be super fine. Since you want speed, you need to put this in slot#2, because its faster than all the other remaining slots. On the adapter I am not familiar with the example posted. It might work, but I didn't see any mentioning of OSX compatibility.
Since those new NVME are running very hot, I would look for a model with a larger heatsink. There are also plenty of heatsinks that can be retrofitted on standard single adapter cards. I have two adapter in my rig at the moment, both of them are great. I can recommend the I/O crest card which is a dual witch card for even more speed and a single adapter with heatsink from Aqua Computer called Kryo2.

 

[KeesMacPro]

Thinking to get one of these:

msy.com.au | Best price and the name you can trust

Best quality computer pars & systems & services & lowest possible prices - the name you can trust

www.msy.com.au

If I get that one, will it work? And do I just need to buy that or some other adapter as well:

Like this? https://www.msy.com.au/auburn/expan...d-m-key-to-pci-e-x4-and-sata3-pci-e-card.html

Looking into it more, I might just not do anything for now until I get the new graphics card installed. Then I can get Mojave installed and the firmware update without going through hoops and hurdles.

Note that if you consider a "straight" adapter card for just 1 blade, the speed will be limited to 1500MB/s .
In other words there's no advantage in getting a super fast blade, i.e. you could get e.g. Samsung 970 EVO/EVO Plus for a much lower price.
The max speed of the blade comes into play when you install a multiple blade bifurcation riser card e.g. HighPoint ,I/O Crest etc.
I agree with @AlexMaximus : the Aqua Computer Kryo m2 / m2 EVO is a high quality adapter card with 1 or 2 heatsinks for a very affordable price.

 

[avro707]

Note that if you consider a "straight" adapter card for just 1 blade, the speed will be limited to 1500MB/s .
In other words there's no advantage in getting a super fast blade, i.e. you could get e.g. Samsung 970 EVO/EVO Plus for a much lower price.
The max speed of the blade comes into play when you install a multiple blade bifurcation riser card e.g. HighPoint ,I/O Crest etc.
I agree with @AlexMaximus : the Aqua Computer Kryo m2 / m2 EVO is a high quality adapter card with 1 or 2 heatsinks for a very affordable price.

I ended up ordering a Highpoint which can do 4, it's one of the recommended ones so I'm now on the right path. I have to wait for all the bits and pieces to arrive. Mid next week I should be able to install the graphics card (when the power cable arrives) then do the NVME install and upgrade to Mojave.

Can hardly wait to see how quick it will be.

It's already quite fast now with the 6-core 3.46ghz and 32GB ram. I'm certainly very happy.

 

[Soba]

I ended up ordering a Highpoint which can do 4, it's one of the recommended ones so I'm now on the right path. I have to wait for all the bits and pieces to arrive. Mid next week I should be able to install the graphics card (when the power cable arrives) then do the NVME install and upgrade to Mojave.

Can hardly wait to see how quick it will be.

It's already quite fast now with the 6-core 3.46ghz and 32GB ram. I'm certainly very happy.

I have a Highpoint 7101 with several Samsung 970 Pro blades and it's extremely speedy. I think you'll be quite happy with the card.

A few more thoughts:

1) My RX 580 graphics card barely fits in slot 1 with the Highpoint installed in slot 2; the cards physically touched in my system and the graphics card fans could move almost no air. For much better cooling of both cards, I moved the graphics card to slot 2 and installed the Highpoint in slot 1. The graphics card blocks slot 3 in this arrangement, but it is worth the peace of mind. Cooking your graphics card or your NVMe blades can be an expensive mistake. Slots 3 & 4 are too slow to provide maximum performance of the Highpoint or the 580, so unless you want a bottleneck, you must use slots 1 and 2.

2) You will need to install your new graphics card to gain Metal support, then run the Mojave installer to update your BootROM for NVMe support (you do not need to actually install Mojave; you can quit the installer after the BootROM update), then install the NVMe blades, then install Mojave.

3) Your Mac Pro uses DDR3 RAM, which performs best with sets of 3 DIMMs, so you can potentially get a small performance gain (about 5%) by using only 3 DIMMs instead of 4. If 24GB of RAM will suffice for your work and you don't actually need 32GB, you can remove 1 DIMM and get a small performance improvement. Or you could get 3x16GB DIMMs for a total of 48GB, instead.

 

[avro707]

That is working. macOS Mojave is installing now. I ran Zwift for Mac OS on this and it ran absolutely highest resolution crystal clear and very smoothly. Pretty amazing. The GPU does sound like a jet fighter when it cranks up.

Now to navigate all the OpenCore stuff and find my way to macOS Big Sur.

I have Mojave installed on it now, but still with my old standard spinning HDDs. Even with that, it's damn fast now. Wow.

 

[Berenod]

That is working. macOS Mojave is installing now. I ran Zwift for Mac OS on this and it ran absolutely highest resolution crystal clear and very smoothly. Pretty amazing. The GPU does sound like a jet fighter when it cranks up.

Now to navigate all the OpenCore stuff and find my way to macOS Big Sur.

I have Mojave installed on it now, but still with my old standard spinning HDDs. Even with that, it's damn fast now. Wow.

At the moment I would stick with Mojave.
Big Sur apparently needs all that Late Bloom fiddling, it's still in "workaround" stadium, so not really a proper fix yet.

Mojave is still officially receiving updates likely for a few more months, hopefully when Apple stops support BS or Monterey will run properly.

Once you move to unsupported versions of MacOS you move into "experimental" territory!

 

[avro707]

Thanks for all the advice. I've not gone ahead with upgrading to Big Sur yet. I haven't actually got the Highpoint NVME card yet either.

I did grab a WiFi / bluetooth card to upgrade that and will give this a go when it arrives - that should get it as far up to date as possible.

My remaining wish is to find the LG Ultrafine 5K screen, the old 30" Apple A1083 Cinema Display HD I have is a bit troublesome and occasionally goes off and flashes the error light on start. Unplugging it and plugging it in again resolves it for a good while until next restart.

I haven't gone ahead with OpenCore yet as it looks a little tricky - but I'm guessing from everything I've read I should just go for https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/

 

[avro707]

I'm noticing with the cloned Mojave install running on the SSD, my CPU temps seem to be a bit higher, typically 10ºC more.

Is this something expected? They seem to fluctuate quite a lot from 40ºC something to 55ºC.

One thing, it's very, very fast now.

Edit: I think I've read a bit more now and it seems the CPU may have been bottle-necked by the old spinning HDDs, now it isn't restricted it can do more. It tends to go up and down a lot.

 

[KeesMacPro]

I'm noticing with the cloned Mojave install running on the SSD, my CPU temps seem to be a bit higher, typically 10ºC more.

Is this something expected? They seem to fluctuate quite a lot from 40ºC something to 55ºC.

One thing, it's very, very fast now.

Edit: I think I've read a bit more now and it seems the CPU may have been bottle-necked by the old spinning HDDs, now it isn't restricted it can do more. It tends to go up and down a lot.

Generally speaking the CPU and NorthBridge Temps are a bit higher with a NVMe installed, especially in a bifurcation riser card.
So your conclusion is correct, but your obsrvation that the T CPU goes up and down a lot could indicate insufficient contact between the CPU die and the heatsink (but that's hard to tell based on a description).
This can be solved easily by repasting the CPU.
IMO when at idle delta CPU diode-heatsink should be ~3degrees max.
If you want, post a screenshot of e.g. MacsFanControl with all fans set to auto and running at idle.

Good to hear all works fine, the cMP is an amazing machine and even ~ 10 years after its release still can be fast : - )

 

[avro707]

Good to hear all works fine, the cMP is an amazing machine and even ~ 10 years after its release still can be fast : - )

Thanks for the quick reply. I ran the computer flat out encoding a 4K video just to see what it did, it got up to 68ºC with all the 6 cores running flat out. I didn't keep it going for any longer once it got to that just to be cautious.

I'm not using any different fan controls, just whatever the Mac does itself.

I tightened the heatsink down to "touch tight" as instructed by Apple and applied AS5 in the asterisk pattern they recommended.

Using the iStat menus tool and using its fan controls just in the medium setting the temps all dropped pretty fast. I didn't realise the Mac cooling fans could speed up as much as they did. I've never heard them do that before.

Normally they are at "system controlled"

Just what sort of temps should I be seeing?

I used this command pmset -g thermlog with this report:

Note: No thermal warning level has been recorded
Note: No performance warning level has been recorded
2021-08-19 22:41:29 +1000 CPU Power notify
    CPU_Scheduler_Limit     = 100
    CPU_Available_CPUs     = 12
    CPU_Speed_Limit     = 100

 

[KeesMacPro]

Just what sort of temps should I be seeing?

I think you did an excellent job and all is working as supposed !

Referring to your question: If you have doubts about the CPU Temps , a good indication for insufficient contact between the CPU and heatsink is to open e.g. iStats menus and compare T CPU diode and T CPU heatsink : difference should be just a few degrees (at idle).

When stresstesting or under heavy load this diffference can be much more, this is normal.
However if you would see T CPU diode go up and down a lot at low/medium load , this implies bad contact too.

IMO a single CPU should run at idle somewhere at late 30's/low 40's and around low 50's at medium load ( Ambient Temp plays a role too).

 

[avro707]

That's pretty much what I'm seeing. In idle I'm seeing usually 40ºC, sometimes less. That's just doing general web work.

You are right on the iStat Menus - Heatsink temperature and CPU Diode temperature are only 3ºC difference.

Thanks to everyone here for the help - just great.

Next task is to get my loading screens back and a bootloader, but I don't want to install a whole new OS.

 

[avro707]

I just had a big crash - spinning wheel then everything froze up. Then on restart I couldn't even get the computer to boot - even the chime at the start wouldn't happen. I powered it off again and then it tried going into Windows on my bootcamp install. This is the second one of those kinds of lockups I've had.

I took the highpoint 7101a and NVMEs out and put my old Mojave Mac OS HDD back in again and it booted without problem.

I'm wondering if something with those SSDs is making it unstable. I'll run it like this and see how it goes with the old HDD.

It was fast...

 

[DFP1989]

I noticed there's a BNIB Sapphire Radeon RX 580 Pulse on Gumtree in Perth. They're asking $650 which is painfully expensive but it seems to be the most well regarded GPU for cMP upgrades.

RX580 worked well in the 5,1 when I was mucking around with one last year. At the time, I paid less than AU$300 brand new at a computer store in Melbourne (Scorptec).

 

[KeesMacPro]

I just had a big crash - spinning wheel then everything froze up. Then on restart I couldn't even get the computer to boot - even the chime at the start wouldn't happen. I powered it off again and then it tried going into Windows on my bootcamp install. This is the second one of those kinds of lockups I've had.

I took the highpoint 7101a and NVMEs out and put my old Mojave Mac OS HDD back in again and it booted without problem.

I'm wondering if something with those SSDs is making it unstable. I'll run it like this and see how it goes with the old HDD.

It was fast...

If the warranty is still valid, I would return the HighPoint to the seller and claim a replacement card.

 

[avro707]

If the warranty is still valid, I would return the HighPoint to the seller and claim a replacement card.

It's a brand new card. Unfortunately there is no way I can troubleshoot it in the logs because it won't boot up.

I'll see what I can do.

RX580 worked well in the 5,1 when I was mucking around with one last year. At the time, I paid less than AU$300 brand new at a computer store in Melbourne (Scorptec).

It does seem to be a good card.

 

[KeesMacPro]

It's a brand new card. Unfortunately there is no way I can troubleshoot it in the logs because it won't boot up.

I'll see what I can do.

Perhaps you could boot from the SATA with the HP installed as well, and see what's going on.
Watch out for Windows boot coups, it may brick your MP .
If possible remove the Windows blade before reinstalling the HP.

 

[avro707]

Perhaps you could boot from the SATA with the HP installed as well, and see what's going on.
Watch out for Windows boot coups, it may brick your MP .
If possible remove the Windows blade before reinstalling the HP.

I had no idea about the windows issue. Windows is on an old SATA Seagate HDD (a spinning one). I can take it out easily. Thanks again for the tips.

 

[MarkC426]

Did you use the 870 in the end?

 

[avro707]

Did you use the 870 in the end?

I didn't use that at all. The 2.5" Sata 870 Evo is not touched. I instead got the Highpoint 7101 and a pair of NVME Samsung 980 Pro. I cloned macOS Mojave from my old HDD (non SSD) over to one of the NVMEs using the Disk Utility restore. It worked very quickly for a bit but I started getting lockups - then it totally wouldn't start at all.

When I did another restart the Mac actually started in my old Bootcamp Windows 7 install. At that point I just stopped it, took the Highpoint out and put old HDD in and it booted up immediately with no dramas. No further issues.

I can't quite tell what caused those crashes - maybe it was the way I cloned it? Perhaps I should have done fresh install.

I put Opencore on the machine tonight - now I have my boot screens back again, very happy with that. And even happier with hardware acceleration for rendering video.

Maybe it's worth having a go at putting the Samsung 870 in and trying to put Big Sur on it - see how that runs. Have multiple operating systems, play around in Big Sur to see what it does and keep Mojave for the critical stuff.

 

[avro707]

Did you use the 870 in the end?

I have used SATA Samsung 870 Evo now. I have installed from scratch macOS Big Sur 11.2.3 on that.

I still have Mojave on the other disk and I’m able to boot into that if needed. So far big sur appears to run smoothly and without issue. It’s quick as well - probably being a fresh install helps. I’ve put office and Creative Cloud on there.

I noticed the WIFI has gone but I’ll have a fix for that when the wifi and Bluetooth card arrives.

Big Sur is really slick, a really polished operating system. It really is an improvement.

 

[Jegriva]

It looks like I can find a 8GB Sapphire Radeon RX580 8GB brand new - I understand it probably won't give me the bootup displays.

But then there is OpenCore here:

OpenCore on the Mac Pro

This guide explains how to use the excellent OpenCore boot loader to install, run, and update the latest version of macOS on the MacPro5,1, resulting in a clean, unaltered operating system just like on a supported Mac.

forums.macrumors.com

I hope I'm understanding it correctly. I'd like to get the 8GB version.

Thanks for the links above too.

I recommend the 580 too, but I was lucky enough to buy one during summer 2019 for 180€. Right now, they are veeeery overpriced.