Mac Pro 6,1 Cylinder - Fact Gathering.

[Umbongo]

I hadn't thought about it, but assuming the usual supsects don't change to other primitive shape form factors (HP Torus?, Dell Pyramid?, BOXX Sphere!, Promax Platonic?), is it somewhat safe to assume other workstation offerings will have twice the power possibilities from the get-go?

Not knowing if the MacPro will feature the top Xeon offering, other workstations would likely have twice the processing power potential, twice the physical RAM options, twice the GPU possibilities, twice the physical storage space (SSD vs. PCIe Flash, I know), similar USB 3.0 connectivity, no idea on HDMI, no idea on Thunderbolt, and would be obviously bigger, less quiet and in a box that is "tower-like"?

That's actually pretty exciting too.

Sorry for the hijack.

Yeah that's correct, and certainly if you get a system from a tier 2 vendor who tend to offer whatever components you want.

 

[pcd109]

my view of it....

It's amazing no one realize yet: THIS IS THE LEGENDARY xMAC FOLKS. Think of it:
- E5's - start at 4 cores;

- fire pro - from v4900 or w5000(entry level)

Can't help not to speculate(sorry) but starting price(quad core and dual v4900 or w5000; 4-8 GB RAM and 128GB flash) will be a shocking under 1900$. THIS IS THE xMAC we all asked for it since the 90's.... This is a fact no one seems to understand. The machine is build to suit prosumers, enthusiasts and pro's as well. Buy removing the hards, enclosures, pci-e, optical etc. it's far cheaper then 'classic' mac pro to fabricate. So now we can have a configuration running anywhere from under 2k to over 10k(with dual fire pro w 9000). But, again, IT"S a FACT, the base machine is the xMAC.... Will say it until anyone get it. Oh boy, i want one.....

 

[VirtualRain]

Additional information on the SSD storage:

I think we can conclude the SSD blades being used in the new Mac Pro are the same as what Apple is using in the just released MacBook Air. iFixit's tear down of the new MBA reveals a new proprietary PCIe SSD module built by Samsung that looks (almost) identical to the one installed in the Mac Pro on display at WWDC.

Mac Pro...

iFixit's pic of the SSD from the 2013 MacBook Air (top) with the old MBA SSD (bottom)...
http://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/hy35fREFQkJXMXBJ.large

AnandTech has confirmed the interface is proprietary...

The drive in my system uses a Samsung controller, although I've heard that SanDisk will have a PCIe solution for Apple as well. A quick run through Quick Bench reveals peak sequential read/write performance of nearly 800MB/s:

This is a pretty big deal, as it is probably the first step towards PCIe storage in a mainstream consumer device that we've seen. I'm still awaiting official confirmation as to whether or not this is an M.2 based solution or a proprietary connector. Update: It's a custom Apple design, not M.2. Since there's no PCIe routed off of the CPU in Haswell ULT, these 2 lanes come from the on-package PCH.

Given that we know the new MacBook Air's offer SSD storage options of 128, 256, or 512GB with a single blade, it's safe to say that internal SSD storage for the new Mac Pro (with two blades - one on the back of each GPU card) can range from 128GB to 1TB.

It will be interesting to see if companies like OWC follow their usual pattern of offering upgrade parts for these kinds of form-factors as they did for previous MBA SSD blades.

In terms of performance, AnandTech (quoted above) notes the SSD in the MBA provides STRs of 800MB/s. Apple quoted SSD performance for the new Mac Pro at 1250MB/s which is most likely possible thanks to running a pair in RAID0. However, this doesn't add up for me... If each blade can do 800MB/s on their own, a pair of these blades in RAID0 should hit closer to 1600MB/s assuming each has dual PCIe lanes available (1GB/s each). So either the 1250MB/s Apple is quoting for the Mac Pro is the result of a higher performing SSD or there's something capping the RAID0 performance of a pair.

 

[Thrilhouse]

6. Mic input: 1

Mic input or Line input? Personally, I'd prefer Mic in, but I have my doubts.

 

[Topper]

IT"S a FACT, the base machine is the xMAC....

This will not be a good computer for consumers.
It is a workstation computer. It quacks like a duck (workstation processor), it waddles like a duck (workstation gpus). Therefore it must be a duck (workstation computer).
The Xeon processor is nice but it can't be overclocked like a Core i7.
The AMD Firepro video cards are workstation GPUs. You couldn't pay me to use those things for gaming.

videocardbenchmark.net

 

[VirtualRain]

It's amazing no one realize yet: THIS IS THE LEGENDARY xMAC FOLKS.

This will not be a good computer for consumers.

Can we please have just ONE thread free of opinion and arguments about what this machine is for?

 

[Topper]

Can we please have just ONE thread free of opinion and arguments about what this machine is for?

Too late.

 

[Tesselator]

Hehe, you kids...




But actually I think not speculation. It's attempting to define the classification this machine falls under; Workstation ("not good for consumers"), Desktop, Hybird "xMac", etc. And that's part of the specs too, no? Topper even used only hard information to lay the claims. Well, as hard as they get at this early point.

While it's not a huge deal how this box (damn, can't be calling it a box no more... )... this tube, classifies it's still useful to know.



OMG, I just realized Apple stole this marketing concept: YouTube --> uTube --> iTube

 

[Tesselator]

Mic input or Line input? Personally, I'd prefer Mic in, but I have my doubts.

Can you make out the icon next to the port? That should tell us... no?

 

[Tutor]

Here's some facts about the Mac Pro and other Apple systems

I. iMac uses (1) NVIDIA GeForce GT 640M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory; (2) NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory; (3) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory; (4) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 675MX graphics processor with 1GB of GDDR5 memory; or (5) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680MX with 2GB of GDDR5 memory.

II. MacBook Pro uses (1) Intel HD Graphics 4000 and (2) NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M with 1GB of GDDR5 memory and automatic graphics switching.

III. MacBook Air uses Intel HD Graphics 5000.

IV. Mac Mini uses Intel HD Graphics 4000.

V. Current Mac Pros have a mixture of ATI and Nvidia Cards, such as GT 7800, GT 120 or ATI Radeon HD 5770 with 1GB GDDR5, tho' MacRumors threads would tend to indicate an affinity for Nvidia GTX cards as upgrades.

VI. 2013/2014 Mac Pro has ATI Fire Pro cards.

I'm biting my tongue and withholding what these facts show.

 

[Tesselator]

I see no pattern other than random confusion. <shrug>

Might as well be a random selection of people's signatures.

 

[VirtualRain]

I. iMac uses (1) NVIDIA GeForce GT 640M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory; (2) NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory; (3) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory; (4) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 675MX graphics processor with 1GB of GDDR5 memory; or (5) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680MX with 2GB of GDDR5 memory.

II. MacBook Pro uses (1) Intel HD Graphics 4000 and (2) NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M with 1GB of GDDR5 memory and automatic graphics switching.

III. MacBook Air uses Intel HD Graphics 5000.

IV. Mac Mini uses Intel HD Graphics 4000.

V. Current Mac Pros have a mixture of ATI and Nvidia Cards, such as GT 7800, GT 120 or ATI Radeon HD 5770 with 1GB GDDR5, tho' MacRumors threads would tend to indicate an affinity for Nvidia GTX cards as upgrades.

VI. 2013/2014 Mac Pro has ATI Fire Pro cards.

I'm biting my tongue and withholding what these facts show.

You're not alone in wondering this. There's a writer at Ars that's equally perplexed and concerned... http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/a-critical-look-at-the-new-mac-pro/

I can only guess that Apple does not want to be held to ransom by Nvidia if Cuda were the only API available so is doing what they can to support OpenCL on their flagship pro platform. However that doesn't explain the Nvidia exclusive on all discrete mobile GPUs in the Apple product line.

 

[thekev]

Hehe, you kids...




But actually I think not speculation. It's attempting to define the classification this machine falls under; Workstation ("not good for consumers"), Desktop, Hybird "xMac", etc. And that's part of the specs too, no? Topper even used only hard information to lay the claims. Well, as hard as they get at this early point.

While it's not a huge deal how this box (damn, can't be calling it a box no more... )... this tube, classifies it's still useful to know.



OMG, I just realized Apple stole this marketing concept: YouTube --> uTube --> iTube

Ahem... Know your trademarks sir.

 

[James Bond]

I'm really interested to know what the Max/Idle power consumption is on this.

 

[Tesselator]

You're not alone in wondering this. There's a writer at Ars that's equally perplexed and concerned... http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06/a-critical-look-at-the-new-mac-pro/

Dave Girard, the author of that article, has filled those pages with many ridiculous assumptions and technical errors in just about every sentence. Terrible! Just terrible!

Ahem... Know your trademarks sir

I don't get it.
EDIT: Oh, I see. There's an existing product called the xMac. Hmm, I had no idea...

I'm really interested to know what the Max/Idle power consumption is on this.

The would be interesting to know. The rational guesses for full spec MP6,1 will be between 150 and 250 Watts of course. But we're trying to concentrate on just the known specifications here in this thread.

 

[pcd109]

This will not be a good computer for consumers..."

I see your point, BUT we don't know if the amd is the ONLY choice for video. And the xMac wasn't for consumers only, sorry. For them you now have mac mini and imac. And i don't see why a Quad core Xeon is less capable then i7. They are in fact on par, with Xeons surpass them more often then not. And the quad core Xeons have high frequency(3+ Ghz) also. So if you are an office guy, you will buy this or an iMac? But let's see: it does not have open slots, it has/not(this is what remains to be seen) upgradable GPU and hard(well flash). This is the definition of the xMAC. My guess is price wise it will go under the top of the line iMac for quad core and a low spec card. So let's call it as a 'modular workstation'.

- fact: gpu's can be changed(don't know yet if slot's are open so we can add game cards or only pro versions; maybe will see Quadro's as well even if only BTO);

- fact: cpu is upgradable(BTO only? - remains to be seen);

- fact: can hold at least one flash memory so you can buy after market upgrades(samsung only? - not know if you can BTO a second drive)

Tesselator guessed where i am heading with this. I want to see if Apple put's it in an 'win all or loose all' situation with ultra expensive box(damn, cylinder) to address a single market. Or they price it from low(under 2k) to address a full range of markets. That is, it remains to be seen on what degree is upgradable and starting price. But let me tell you; if it starts at under 2k Apple is now competitive with HP and Dell. So i don't have any reasons to go buy an z420 or the likes with single cpu because i have this baby covering all bases. Extremely good move from Apple. The only point not clear to me at this time is if we can add aftermarket internals(Cpu/GPU and Flash) or not. So here you go, i put facts and questions(not guess only) to be more in line with the thread.

 

[thekev]

I don't get it.
EDIT: Oh, I see. There's an existing product called the xMac. Hmm, I had no idea...

You can credit Deconstruct for that one. It was mixed into a post comparing usb3 and thunderbolt to Family Feud. It was extremely funny.

 

[slughead]

One thing that occurs to me is that the dual GPUs coming standard will give software developers a huge incentive to write software that takes advantage of GPU data crunching.

If anyone buys one....

 

[Hellhammer]

Additional information on the SSD storage:

I think we can conclude the SSD blades being used in the new Mac Pro are the same as what Apple is using in the just released MacBook Air. iFixit's tear down of the new MBA reveals a new proprietary PCIe SSD module built by Samsung that looks (almost) identical to the one installed in the Mac Pro on display at WWDC.

The controller is the same in both SSDs but the SSD in the Mac Pro demo unit had different NAND. The NAND can definitely make a difference but I find it unlikely that it would provide ~450MB/s faster speeds.

The most likely reason is that the speeds Apple is claiming are for 512GB or 1TB SSD. With PCIe we're no longer capped at 550MB/s so more NAND yields better performance also at the highest capacities.

 

[VirtualRain]

The controller is the same in both SSDs but the SSD in the Mac Pro demo unit had different NAND. The NAND can definitely make a difference but I find it unlikely that it would provide ~450MB/s faster speeds.

The most likely reason is that the speeds Apple is claiming are for 512GB or 1TB SSD. With PCIe we're no longer capped at 550MB/s so more NAND yields better performance also at the highest capacities.

I see... that makes sense.

----------

Dave Girard, the author of that article, has filled those pages with many ridiculous assumptions and technical errors in just about every sentence. Terrible! Just terrible!

I'm not sure what you're referring to. It all seemed reasonable and consistent with what we know.

 

[clamnectar]

Fact: it is a computer.

That's all I got so far

 

[MRU]

I assume that it wont 'only' be assembled in USA either. I assume the Cork plant in Ireland will manufacturer them for EMEA territories.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Is suggesting there could be a dual CPU model not speculation? That would absolutely require a larger enclosure.

You can only connect one display to a thunderbolt connection currently yes? So 6 displays supported in total? Or can you use splitting devices so this could have 12 (which the cards can support)?

The telling point against a dual CPU model is that the next-generation Xeon E5 is confirmed to have a high-end model with 12 cores per socket, and Apple has said "up to 12 cores".

If Apple had said "up to 24 cores," it would mean a dual-socket model would be available.

Speculation: Without seeing the CPU side of the CPU board, it's impossible to tell - but it *MIGHT* be possible to cram two sockets on that board. But that would mean that board would have to be otherwise empty. And that would be insanely hard to cool. They would be restricted to the lower-core-count lower-power models, which would negate the point of having two sockets.

 

[slughead]

Only one hard drive port seen in the picture /troll

 

[Tesselator]

You can credit Deconstruct for that one. It was mixed into a post comparing usb3 and thunderbolt to Family Feud. It was extremely funny.

Dewily noted and thanks for the link!

I'm not sure what you're referring to. It all seemed reasonable and consistent with what we know.

For example, The Author wrote:
"Now I will be forced to replace my existing eSATA RAID enclosure since eSATA/Thunderbolt adapters are stupidly expensive and there are no PCI slots in the machine to accommodate an eSATA adapter card. Considering the still-high price of external Thunderbolt enclosures, the price of the Mac Pro better be reasonable, because it’s clear that many of us will be forced to take this route as well."

And IMO this represents a severe lack of knowledge and understanding. Given that SATA III is 6Gbits/s and USB3.0 is nearly the same at 5Gbits/s (roughly 600MB/s and 500MB/s respectively) and also that USB3.0 --> eSATA adapters are less that $25, it should be entirely obvious the error of this statement.

And that's just one example. He even get the case description wrong - calling it machined aluminum when in fact it's stretched aluminum with a machined finish. People like him should not be writing articles IMHO.

But this is kinda off-topic for this thread so let's cut it after you reply if indeed you feel the need.

Fact: it is a computer.

That's all I got so far

Excellent observation! I'll add that to the list!