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Is the Mac Pro 7,1 a hit or a miss?

  • Yes

    Votes: 47 46.1%
  • No

    Votes: 24 23.5%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 31 30.4%

  • Total voters
    102

choreo

macrumors 6502a
Jan 10, 2008
910
357
Midland, TX
The W5700X has had a lot of driver issues, but they have been _mostly_ associated with Catalina. Big Sur made a lot of improvements to the driver, and I'm even seeing more improvements and fixes in 11.3. Apple hasn't abandon the Mac Pro and they haven't abandon the W5700X. They have abandon Catalina.
Are you saying Apple specifically has made changes to the w5700x drivers in Big Sur over Catalina? As much as I overall dislike Big Sur on my laptop, I might take the plunge and upgrade my 7,1 from Catalina if there was some improvement in all my auto-restarts.
 

blackadde

macrumors regular
Dec 11, 2019
165
242
Porsche is much more successful today with an SUV than it was early on. Yet, the reason the company is valuable is they did NOT forget their enthusiasts.

Apple is blowing up a bridge here unnecessarily. Giving enthusiasts what they want would not cost them much, and it would likely actually sell well.

If at some point apple could use those enthusiasts, that blown bridge... yea, not good.
Hey man, you're preaching to the choir. I want Apple (and everyone else) to care about the people who put them on the map. I think it's both good PR and good business sense to throw their most ardent fans a bone now and again.

Perhaps we just disagree about how precarious it is for a $2T company to worry about a DIY crowd that's almost entirely migrated to greener pastures in the last 10 years. Apple is a frustratingly opaque company, so who knows how they do that cost/benefit analysis.
 
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mattspace

macrumors 68040
Jun 5, 2013
3,340
2,974
Australia
They were switching to iMacs even when the cheesegrater Mac Pros were around.
yes, they were cheaper for the performance, because mac pros were not updated as regularly, and because central IT departments for large deployments preferred to lease & flip on a more regular basis.

Still not price / capability equivalent though. Apple hasn't offered a slot-based system with equivalent tech and pricing to the iMac, so there's no valid way to connect the "success" of the non-upgradable all in one form factor, to a desire for that, over an upgradable price-equivalent modular system.
 
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arche3

macrumors 6502
Jul 8, 2020
407
286
There does seem to be a bit of a gulf between the 'I just need something that works' crowd and the tech enthusiasts who can't endorse anything but the latest (or yet to be released) products.

My Mac Pro quietly sits there and does whatever I ask. The 5700 XT works fine and the system never crashes. Every week I quickly turn around work I get paid for and I spend very little time watching rendering bars etc.

Maybe we all need to post more about how everything is going fine, just to balance out all the horror stories or tales of disappointment.
Those YouTube people don't actually get paid for their work. They get paid for YouTube views. So they have to sensationaliz everything. They have no need of a 7.1 with Vegas. They wouldn't even know how to use a compositor to actually need the Vega. They just run tests and spam video.
 
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OS X Dude

macrumors 65816
Jun 30, 2007
1,154
647
UK
This video seems relevant. Not that I agree with all of it at all, just some of it. But what I do agree with is explained well:

 
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goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
7,663
1,694
Are you saying Apple specifically has made changes to the w5700x drivers in Big Sur over Catalina? As much as I overall dislike Big Sur on my laptop, I might take the plunge and upgrade my 7,1 from Catalina if there was some improvement in all my auto-restarts.
Yes. Big Sur has newer/better drivers than Catalina. The Catalina drivers have not been updated in a very long time, and won’t be ever again.

So if you want drivers with fixes for issues, you have to roll to Big Sur.

Big Sur stability isn’t perfect, but it’s better. I had a lot of W5700X issues, especially around sleep/wake disappear with Big Sur.
 
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OkiRun

macrumors 65816
Oct 25, 2019
1,005
585
Japan
Yes. Big Sur has newer/better drivers than Catalina. The Catalina drivers have not been updated in a very long time, and won’t be ever again.

So if you want drivers with fixes for issues, you have to roll to Big Sur.

Big Sur stability isn’t perfect, but it’s better. I had a lot of W5700X issues, especially around sleep/wake disappear with Big Sur.
We have some legacy sfx software that isn't yet compatible with Big Sur. Always important to think about before changing.
 

StuAff

macrumors 6502
Aug 6, 2007
391
261
Portsmouth, UK
I'm still of the view that the 7,1 is in the same position as the Power Mac G5 (even the 2003 version, let alone the 2005), as it is…
(i) The last and best of its line
(i) [and/or] An overpriced white elephant
(iii) Exactly what Apple needed to do for its customers with the technology available at the time
(iv) Should be bought on the understanding that its value for money and potential useful life are dependent on what you can do with it now, and with reasonable expense in the short to medium term, not on upgrades that might be impossible or unfeasibly expensive.
(v) [Fingers crossed on this one] Not the last machine to use this case design…

Max Yuryev makes some good points in both that video, and the one where he said he was switching from his 7,1 to the M1 Mini. No ifs buts or maybes, Apple should have resolved the driver issues and released more, and cheaper, GPU updates (whether the 6000 series will be an option remains unclear, when it should be available already). However, his wounds are mostly self-inflicted. The ARM rumours were already sounding likely to prove accurate even by WWDC 2019. The 7,1 was going to be it for an Intel Mac, and Apple's incentives to update it were not going to be that strong. If Max hasn't got his money's worth out of the machine already, and isn't prepared to accept the limitations of the machine to handle the increased and altered workload he's decided to put on it, that's on him. Oh, and he wants to sell it now 'before values drop'. Hasn't worked that one out, has he? The YT comments on these videos are the usual echo-chamber rubbish with people reinforcing their own prejudices.

Apple had to release what they did, when they did. PCIe 4.0 still isn't a (shipping) possibility on any Xeon. That, and the socket change, is down to Intel alone. Apple couldn't have just kept the 6,1 on sale for another three or four years (well, it could, but…). And, assuming Apple Silicon was already agreed if not in R&D, then a switch to AMD would have been very short-term, and very awkward. Just not a sensible option. So, 7,1 has been both a massive, very worthwhile upgrade, and a disappointing dead end.

Given that Apple does, despite what some insist, care about customers being satisfied, and is also the kind of company that prices components to multiple decimal points (they're still using the same power supply in the M1 mini as the Intel models, despite the massive reduction in power consumption), I think that the eight-slot big-box form factor will be staying on for AS, just as the 1,1 used the G5 case. The Pro, like the mini, is a (very) low-volume seller. Apple is more likely to leave the case alone rather than upset all the buyers who appreciate and use some or all of that extra expansion, the rack mount version, the clever design touches, not to mention have the cost of retooling. A smaller option would be a very sensible, logical progression, if they can somehow make it neither a fundamentally flawed system like the 6,1 and the Cube, nor end up making the big tower, and the rack version, even lower selling & at risk of being cancelled altogether and making 2013's errors look like sensible planning. Whether, or even if, the gaping hole in the current desktop lineup gets filled by an M1X Mini (and there will, most likely be one to replace the i5 & i7 models), an iMac Pro (whether or not it's actually called Pro), the rumoured smaller Pro, or all of the above, remains to be seen. But the 8,1 will not have a processor that's the equivalent of four or five M1s stuck together with unexpandable UMA memory, no discrete GPUs, no PCIe slots and an awful lot of empty space. That's about as likely as when certain commentators seized on the word 'modular' in the 2017 apologetic press briefing that preannounced the 7,1 and iMac Pro, put two and two together to make 27.34, and decided the 7,1 would be a set of stackable boxes. But, as this is Apple, we'll only know when we know…
 
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strangerthanlight

macrumors member
Mar 17, 2021
68
37
Just finished expanding this baby. A hit? Hell yeah - 16 Core, 768GB Ram, 24TB SSD storage (8TB Apple SSD, 4x2TB Nvme SSD in Raid 0 via Sonnet M.2 4x4 PCIe Card, 2x4TB SATA SSD via Pegasus J2i Cage), and waiting for Nvidia RTX A6000 card to use in Windows for compute. I added extra USB C ports via Sonnet Allegro PCIe Card and an Universal Audio Octo Core PCIe DSP Card as well. Did I say it's damn near silent too?

1.png
 
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Rob__Mac

macrumors member
Feb 18, 2021
93
463
Hackney, London
(iv) Should be bought on the understanding that its value for money and potential useful life are dependent on what you can do with it now, and with reasonable expense in the short to medium term, not on upgrades that might be impossible or unfeasibly expensive.
I think this is key. I got mine late last year, with a 580X. Spent a couple months waiting for an AMD 6XXX release then just went ahead and got the W5700X. It allows me to do what I want. Are there better solutions in my imagination? Yes. Can I wait for them to be released? No.
 

arche3

macrumors 6502
Jul 8, 2020
407
286
The fact that you can dual boot windows and use rtx cards is great. All the expansion. It's basically a fully expandable and modular PC. That is a great mac. Sure the future mac pro on Apple silicon will catch up. But this is it right now.
 
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TrevorR90

macrumors 6502
Oct 1, 2009
379
299
Highly subjective question. Its a hit for me. I'm typing on my mac pro right now, it does everything I want it to, and I can see it doing what I want it to do 5 years down the road.

Just because there is threadripper or pcie 4.0 etc etc does not automatically mean my mac pro stopped working or has worse performance all of a sudden.

I don't like the idea of futureproofing. There is always going to be something better in the future.

The only knock against Apple and the mac pro right now is the lack of driver updates. But other than that, it works perfectly fine for me.
 
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bloomfeld

macrumors member
Mar 1, 2006
71
72
Europe, Berlin, Germany
Highly subjective question. Its a hit for me. I'm typing on my mac pro right now, it does everything I want it to, and I can see it doing what I want it to do 5 years down the road.
Another happy Mac Pro 7,1 camper here. It is a quiet, powerful machine, that lets me run Windows occasionally too. Bought it last year and plan to facilitate it for at least 4 more years.
 

cobra521

macrumors 6502
Dec 14, 2016
393
136
FL
So far I like the 7,1. I haven't got the faster graphics card I want yet; I'm still debating between the W5700X and the Vega II MPX for my 4K video processing. Overall, no disappointment!

Tom
 
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ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
Are you saying Apple specifically has made changes to the w5700x drivers in Big Sur over Catalina? As much as I overall dislike Big Sur on my laptop, I might take the plunge and upgrade my 7,1 from Catalina if there was some improvement in all my auto-restarts.

My Mac Pro couldn't sleep without bombing in catalina. Completely resolved with Big Sur. As always, YMMV, but it's been overall way better for me.
 

DFP1989

macrumors 6502
Jun 5, 2020
462
361
Melbourne, Australia
I’m still on the fence about mine.

I love how for all intents and purposes is runs silent, and it’s been much more stable on Big Sur than it was on Catalina. It’s been a reliable workhorse for the past year and paid for itself, so in that respect it was worth the outlay.

The biggest disappointment is zero info from Apple about ongoing support.

One of the biggest draws for a MP over other Macs was its expandability and upgradeability, yet we are stuck waiting for them to offer driver support for the latest AMD cards.

Either take control of it and get it done quickly, or get out of the way and let AMD do it.

All this talk of Apple focusing on other products is BS, they are a multi-trillion dollar company. They can juggle as many projects as they want at 100%.
 

jinnyman

macrumors 6502a
Sep 2, 2011
762
671
Lincolnshire, IL
For people other than those who can justify owning this machine, it's definitely a miss.
It's too expensive for non video editors / heavy vm users. For the intended target, I agree it's kinda well priced.
But then, I'm afraid 7,1 will be plagued with lack of update and support by Apple. I see Apple providing continued security updates and what not, but what about new hardware options? CPU is dead end, but what about GPU? Will they continue providing driver update as well?

A pricey machine intended for niche market plagued by architecture shift.

I was really waiting for 7,1, and all I needed was freedom to upgrade internal storage. Hopefully the rumors about Mac Pro mini or Mini pro whatever is true with an option to upgrade internal storage.
 

OkiRun

macrumors 65816
Oct 25, 2019
1,005
585
Japan
I
For people other than those who can justify owning this machine, it's definitely a miss.
It's too expensive for non video editors / heavy vm users. For the intended target, I agree it's kinda well priced.
But then, I'm afraid 7,1 will be plagued with lack of update and support by Apple. I see Apple providing continued security updates and what not, but what about new hardware options? CPU is dead end, but what about GPU? Will they continue providing driver update as well?

A pricey machine intended for niche market plagued by architecture shift.

I was really waiting for 7,1, and all I needed was freedom to upgrade internal storage. Hopefully the rumors about Mac Pro mini or Mini pro whatever is true with an option to upgrade internal storage.
If don't mind asking you ~
What do you want Mac Pro Mini 8,1 to use for? Personal computing or specific company computing or university computing? Seems like the AS Mac Pro Mini won't be CPU or GPU upgradable...? And not as much RAM or slots available... possible. Are you happy with Apple OS, some expansion available, and less expensive 7,1?
 

cobra521

macrumors 6502
Dec 14, 2016
393
136
FL
I was really waiting for 7,1, and all I needed was freedom to upgrade internal storage. Hopefully the rumors about Mac Pro mini or Mini pro whatever is true with an option to upgrade internal storage.
I have eight SSDs mounted internally - 2TB each- in addition, two hard drives totaling 26TB more. There are still empty slots for more storage if needed.

Is this what you were asking about?

Tom
 

arche3

macrumors 6502
Jul 8, 2020
407
286
The mac pro 61 was a failure. If they go back to that all in one style for the 81 macpro the 71 will be the only option for pro use.
 

jinnyman

macrumors 6502a
Sep 2, 2011
762
671
Lincolnshire, IL
I have eight SSDs mounted internally - 2TB each- in addition, two hard drives totaling 26TB more. There are still empty slots for more storage if needed.

Is this what you were asking about?

Tom
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I was looking for 5,1 kind of machine. not stupidly expensive for what it is at the performance level I'd use. I get that a base or near low end 7,1 is the baseline meant for higher end configuration, but definitely not for consumer enthusiasts like me. I'm ok with paying apple tax, but I can't pay x2~x3 of what I can get from Windows world.

It's good for people working for video industry who requires the performance, but not me. And I know I'm not alone. 7,1 effectively abandoned many prosumer developers, folks in photo industry, typical enthusiasts that 5,1 like replacement would have suit just fine.
 

th0masp

macrumors 6502a
Mar 16, 2015
851
515
7,1 effectively abandoned many prosumer developers, folks in photo industry, typical enthusiasts that 5,1 like replacement would have suit just fine.
Or just about anybody who would have considered an upgradeable mac desktop.

Generally you would expect the 'pro' line to be the safe, boring choice. A Mac in a PC-like box. You know what it's like and have a good idea about its update/release schedule, usual feature set, pricing, etc.

Instead for Apple it seems like a testing ground for trying out their most radical ideas. And if it doesn't become a runaway success then apparently it's to be hidden in the cupboard for a few years and not talked about. ?
 
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