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mode11

macrumors 65816
Jul 14, 2015
1,452
1,172
London
It's almost as if what would have been perfect, is if Apple made a single pro machine that could have either a Core processor, Or a Xeon that the user could spec based on their workflow... like the HP Z6.
This.

M2 ultra based mac pro would be great for me if it supports some kind of replaceable gpu and deliver perf that is at worst 50% of competition/price.
I think this is known as ‘bargaining’…

Otherwise, I will finally have closure and can stop hoping for a competitive workstation for what I do. Tbh, I have very little faith that apple will give me what I want though. In the end it is a price/perf thing.
…moving on to ‘acceptance’.

Tbh, objectively speaking, many of us in this thread would be better off buying a high-end PC, which would offer all the features we’re looking for, at a reasonable price. The only thing that’s guaranteed about the new Mac Pro is that we’re going to be massively disappointed by it.

Even some of the wished-for features are moot without a wider ecosystem. Socketed SoCs only make sense in a world where Apple will sell you an upgrade, at a sane price. PCIe GPU support is only worthwhile if Apple commits to releasing high-powered GPUs on a sustained, aggressive schedule (again, at a reasonable price), or if AMD (and preferably Nvidia) GPUs get driver support. None of which has any chance of happening, of course.
 
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AlphaCentauri

macrumors 6502
Mar 10, 2019
291
457
Norwich, United Kingdom
I need CPU power and more than 128GB RAM in well ventilated enclosure. PCI expansions would be sweet bonus for me and then I would not need to worry about non-expandable internal SSD storage. dGPU would be nice thing, but not necessary for my purpose, which is music and light video production. I guess I’m their target customer… :p
 

mikas

macrumors 6502a
Sep 14, 2017
898
649
Finland
The only last thing I could wish for, is that eGPU support at least, please. Aka drivers for AMD next gen GPUs. nVidia is for sure not an option, that have we learnt. But I don't think they are gonna give us that last thing from AMD neither. Nope. They have their, and only their way, coming.
 
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ZombiePhysicist

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May 22, 2014
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I think that a March release would be great. Not because I think that's a timeframe compatible with peoples' wet dream Mac Pros, but because I think it's essential to get the ball rolling on Apple's AS Mac Pro.

Once out of the closet, we'll at least get to look at it from all sides and make informed decisions. I don't believe it's good energy conversion to get worked up about Apple's decisions regarding macOS pro computing hardware, but it is important to know where it's heading.

In my mind, the AS Mac Pro is interesting, because it's the first Mac Pro in a while that seems to mesh well with Apple's other computers—both in terms of components used (manufacturing efficiency) as well as shared technologies (software efficiency). I'm hoping this is something that Apple will finally be able to iterate properly on, like all of their other computers.

I see no reason why this new Mac Pro should start at the AS Ultra level. An AS Mac Pro Max is a reasonable starting point and would allow many to switch to this more flexible design.

I expect Apple to lose a bunch of old customers on these computers, but I think they will gain even more new ones to make up for it.

And make no mistake: it's all not high-fives and laughter in the PC camp either when gfx cards that used to cost $350 now launch at "$800" but sell for more like $1200. A single mid-high-end gfx card might cost you the same as a base Mac Studio Max.

We disagree. Apple got the “ball rolling” with the cube and the trashcan. The trashcan caused a huge segment of the pro/enthusiast market to run away. And I cannot emphasize this enough. They ran away to such an extreme effect it forced apple to actually put on an apology tour. This idea of putting out any crap is better than nothing has been proven wrong.

Now maybe it will be great, or at least good enough, and it can iterate towards great. But if it doesn’t support 3rd party graphics cards, it’s game over. Whoever replaces the true enthusiasts and pros that leave will likely be the demographic of my secretary…benefactors of idiots like myself that bought a maxed out ultra to realize it’s refried s*** less expandable macmini and drop it on their desk because we have no real use for it.

That replacement demographic is not one that will give a damn…they are not the think different demographic that saved apple from bankruptcy…that is the ‘I don’t give an f what machine is on my desk, let me just use whatever slop box, I don’t care’ demographic. Good luck with those champions of the brand…the same ones that thought performas were ‘fine’.
 

mikas

macrumors 6502a
Sep 14, 2017
898
649
Finland
You might see that Apple goes it's own way. There are no normal prohibitions or obstacles for them. I can see they managed pretty well. On portables. Really really good. I give that.

Now for the workstations. Mac Studio is not one, it's not a workstation. I think we all now know intel is bygone for Apple. There is not going to be any updates for 7,1. There would not be a 7,2.

Will there be a workstation Mac ever again? Is it profitable enough for Tim to keep it in their selection of Macs anymore?

Unfortunately, I don't see Tim making that decision, not anymore, for years of hoping he realizes that. He's more of for profits, as we have seen and read, not that much of a Mac as a platform for averybody, everyone, anyone, or for sure, whatabout for not for the rest of us?

Not a native speaker, so sorry if..
 

mikas

macrumors 6502a
Sep 14, 2017
898
649
Finland
Tim is not the right person to run the company. He's about money. He's about money only. He's got no insight of Apple's future but money. And he's probably the best at what he does.

And this is why I predict, it's gonna be Apple only/exclusively product.
 
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mode11

macrumors 65816
Jul 14, 2015
1,452
1,172
London
We disagree. Apple got the “ball rolling” with the cube and the trashcan. The trashcan caused a huge segment of the pro/enthusiast market to run away. And I cannot emphasize this enough. They ran away to such an extreme effect it forced apple to actually put on an apology tour. This idea of putting out any crap is better than nothing has been proven wrong.

Now maybe it will be great, or at least good enough, and it can iterate towards great. But if it doesn’t support 3rd party graphics cards, it’s game over.

The Cube (bless it) was a long time ago, and discontinued in under a year. It was also sold alongside G4 towers, which was part of the reason for its failure - it cost the same and was largely non-upgradable. I don't think it scared many pros away - they just ignored it. The trashcan was obviously much more problematic, being sold much more recently, for such a long time, and with no contemporary tower alternative.

I agree with Andree that one way or another, it will be good for us to see Apple show their hand. If it's full of PCIe and supports GPUs, that will be great, and we can look forward to future iterations. If it's essentially a Studio with an Extreme and a bigger heatsink, or a slotbox that doesn't support GPUs, we can at least move on and buy PCs for e.g. 3D animation or game development. Apple's AS laptops will still be great.
 
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ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
The Cube (bless it) was a long time ago, and discontinued in under a year. It was also sold alongside G4 towers, which was part of the reason for its failure - it cost the same and was largely non-upgradable. I don't think it scared many pros away - they just ignored it. The trashcan was obviously much more problematic, being sold much more recently, for such a long time, and with no contemporary tower alternative.

I agree with Andree that one way or another, it will be good for us to see Apple show their hand. If it's full of PCIe and supports GPUs, that will be great, and we can look forward to future iterations. If it's essentially a Studio with an Extreme and a bigger heatsink, or a slotbox that doesn't support GPUs, we can at least move on and buy PCs for e.g. 3D animation or game development. Apple's AS laptops will still be great.

Why is that better? In a world of many possibilities, rather than making a machine with no gpu support that would send remaining die hard pro.enthusiasts away like the Lorax, why isn’t it preferable for someone on the team to say…

Option 1: ”hey guys, we’re messing up and making a machine that will drive out most loyal people away! Let’s pause this and get GPUs from 3rd parties working and release this a year later with an m3 extreme that is actually a meaningful upgrade.”

to me, that is 100x better than,

Option 2: “hey we half assed this, all yuse guys can go f yourselves if you don’t like our half baked half assed, chip and pci gimped monstrosity”.

I don’t see how this “let’s just get this over with even if it means option 2” is in anyway better than “let’s take a breath and do this right with option 1”.

In no world is option 2 better, in fact, it’s a #2 all the way in every way.
 
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StuAff

macrumors 6502
Aug 6, 2007
391
261
Portsmouth, UK
Why is that better? In a world of many possibilities, rather than making a machine with now gpu support that would send remaining die hard pro.enthusiasts away like the Lorax, why isn’t it preferable for someone o the team to say…

Option 1: ”hey guys, we’re messing up and making a machine that will drive out most loyal people away! Let’s pause this and get GPUs from 3rd parties working and release this a year later with an m3 extreme that is actually a meaningful upgrade.”

to me, that is 100x better than,

Option 2: “hey we half assed this, all yuse guys can go f yourselves if you don’t like our half baked half assed, chip and pci gimped monstrosity”.

I don’t see how this “let’s just get this over with even if it means option 2” is in anyway better than “let’s take a breath and do this right with option 1”.

In no world is option 2 better, in fact, it’s a #2 all the way in every way.
They could have done with another round-table discussion like the 2017 apology to make future plans slightly less unclear. One would hope that the MP was considered when the decision to switch to AS was made- i.e. 'That's going to be the hardest Mac to switch over, but we can do it, and do it in a way that'll keep customers happy, so let's switch over'. However, the thought does occur that somehow, the decision was made, patting themselves on the back, then someone piped up 'what about the Mac Pro…?'.
 
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mode11

macrumors 65816
Jul 14, 2015
1,452
1,172
London
Why is that better? In a world of many possibilities, rather than making a machine with now gpu support that would send remaining die hard pro.enthusiasts away like the Lorax, why isn’t it preferable for someone o the team to say…

Option 1: ”hey guys, we’re messing up and making a machine that will drive out most loyal people away! Let’s pause this and get GPUs from 3rd parties working and release this a year later with an m3 extreme that is actually a meaningful upgrade.”

to me, that is 100x better than,

Option 2: “hey we half assed this, all yuse guys can go f yourselves if you don’t like our half baked half assed, chip and pci gimped monstrosity”.

I don’t see how this “let’s just get this over with even if it means option 2” is in anyway better than “let’s take a breath and do this right with option 1”.

In no world is option 2 better, in fact, it’s a #2 all the way in every way.

We're talking at cross-purposes a little here. If there's truly a PCI GPU-supporting MP coming down the pike, then sure, better to wait to release it (but for God's sake, just announce it now, so we know what's going on).

On the other hand, if Apple have decided to go e.g. all-SoC, then I'd rather they just release the damn thing and put us out of our misery.

Alternatively, a Mac Pro with e.g. an M1 Max CPU, PCIe slots and the promise of coming AMD GPU support would be lame, but at least we'd know Apple's general strategy.
 
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StuAff

macrumors 6502
Aug 6, 2007
391
261
Portsmouth, UK
An SoC plus support for additional GPUs would be the right option (IMHO). If a user wants all the slots for other cards, covered. If you want a more powerful GPU at purchase or later on, the SoC GPU can still be useful. If you're the customer who wants quad GPUs, you'd probably like five…
 

ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
We're talking at cross-purposes a little here. If there's truly a PCI GPU-supporting MP coming down the pike, then sure, better to wait to release it (but for God's sake, just announce it now, so we know what's going on).

On the other hand, if Apple have decided to go e.g. all-SoC, then I'd rather they just release the damn thing and put us out of our misery.

Alternatively, a Mac Pro with e.g. an M1 Max CPU, PCIe slots and the promise of coming AMD GPU support would be lame, but at least we'd know Apple's general strategy.

So you changed the premise on my statement. Sure, and I agree, under your scenario where this is written in stone, they WILL say F GPUs and no changing their mind no matter what, I'm with you. Pull off the bandaid.

However, the apology tour (plus pulling the extreme chip, and many other cancelled at last second products) prove that these things tend to not be written in stone at apple (thankfully). And reason and good decisions generally can and do win the day. So I was more hopeful. But maybe youre right. Maybe they just said, let's put a bullet in our most loyal fan base. Crazier things, sadly, have happened before.

Time will tell.
 

Mac3Duser

macrumors regular
Aug 26, 2021
183
139
Ok ok but nobody answers this question : how many PCIe Lanes ?
Because, to add GPUs (or other cards) you need a lot of PCIe Lanes.
 

Boil

macrumors 68040
Oct 23, 2018
3,478
3,174
Stargate Command
First there was the NeXT Cube...

Then there was the G4 Cube...

What we need now is the ASi Cube...
  • M3 Extreme SoC (N3X)
  • 64-core CPU (48P/16E)
  • 240-core GPU (w/hardware ray-tracing)
  • 128-core Neural Engine
  • 1TB LPDDR5X SDRAM
  • 2.13TB/s UMA bandwidth
  • 32TB NVMe SSD (4 @ 8TB NAND blades)
  • 420W PSU
  • 7.7" x 7.7" x 7.7"
  • US$19,999
 
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prefuse07

Suspended
Jan 27, 2020
895
1,073
San Francisco, CA
First there was the NeXT Cube...

Then there was the G4 Cube...

What we need now is the ASi Cube...
  • M3 Extreme SoC (N3X)
  • 64-core CPU (48P/16E)
  • 240-core GPU (w/hardware ray-tracing)
  • 128-core Neural Engine
  • 1TB LPDDR5X SDRAM
  • 2.13TB/s UMA bandwidth
  • 32TB NVMe SSD (4 @ 8TB NAND blades)
  • 420W PSU
  • 7.7" x 7.7" x 7.7"
  • US$19,999
gifntext-gif (2).gif
 
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ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
First there was the NeXT Cube...

Then there was the G4 Cube...

What we need now is the ASi Cube...
  • M3 Extreme SoC (N3X)
  • 64-core CPU (48P/16E)
  • 240-core GPU (w/hardware ray-tracing)
  • 128-core Neural Engine
  • 1TB LPDDR5X SDRAM
  • 2.13TB/s UMA bandwidth
  • 32TB NVMe SSD (4 @ 8TB NAND blades)
  • 420W PSU
  • 7.7" x 7.7" x 7.7"
  • US$19,999
You forgot the Pixar cube
 

ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
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So despite the shape, it's a slotbox with a user-upgradable GPU.
Yea. Was a great machine. It could actually hold and use multiple motherboards. When I got the 040 upgrade I kept the 030 board, cut a trace and kept it in the cube. Both ran. I put an Ethernet cable between them and you could remote display the 030 board on the 040. Was so cool.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
4900 for the for base 24 core/56 gpu with 6 slots please.

Apple currently charges $3,999 for a Mac Studio with 20-CPU , 48-GPU core M1 Ultra. If the M2 goes to multiples of 12 on CPU count then same thing 24 core CPU , 56 GPU (out of 72) is likely where the M2 Ultra Studio would go. The 'full' Ultra Studio is $4,999 ( $1000 to add 16GPU cores ).

Apple has already set the price levels for an Ultra powered Mac. Price cuts below that for M2 generation and forward are pretty unlikely. TSMC fab manufacturing costs for more advance nodes going up reinforces that. Making these multiple chip packages isn't going to be cheap (even if Apple shifts to incrementally better chiplet designs for the desktop offerings). Apple has not significantly used the M-series transition to dramatically lower Mac system prices.


Bigger power supply, PLEX switch , more aluminum for bigger case , drilling fancy holes in the case , slots , 'low volume tax', etc .etc. Likely not getting any lower than the current $5,999 for the Mac Pro. Perhaps one way they'd get back to the Studio price price would be to serious kneecap that entry Mac Pro in some way. (e.g, 512G SSD or something silly like that. There are folks who 'hate' Apple SSD drives so if trying to sell some boxes to them who are going to buy and put their own drive in the "too low" capacity isn't as much of a hurdle. They are ignoring it anyway. Lots of folks grumbled at the 512GB SSD configuration. If Apple didn't sell more to the 'haters' with the MP 2019 than they thought they would, then it is probably gone. If enough folks bought it perhaps it says around. ).

With the M2 Ultra there is decent change that Apple would do away with the kneecapped SSD capacity at the $5,999 price point. The Studio and Mac Pro would baseline entry capacities of 1TB.



And option of apple gpu cards.

If Apple canceled the M2 Extreme because of too low volumes to be interesting and opportunity costs are too high ... then the likelihood of discrete Apple GPUs is pretty slim. That is an even more expensive niche to branch out into.

I think there is presumption that Apple would make something priced like a Nvidia 4070, 3090, or AMD 6800 . Probably not. The W5700X which the internal Ultra SoC beats is priced at $1000

https://www.apple.com/us/search/Radeon+Pro+W5700X+MPX+Module?src=aos_alp

If Apple was going to make something that was going to take the place of a W6800 ( $2,800 ) and W6900 ( > $2,800 ) , then they probably would price them around the same magnitude. All the Mac Pro 5,1 and 7,1 folks who ran out and bought "way cheaper than official Apple GPU product " cards aren't really going to motivate Apple much to make a GPU card. Those folks didn't buy the other Apple offerings, so why would they buy these new ones. Hence, land in just about the same low volume boat as the M2 Extreme with the same opportunity cost overhead (if not higher).


If the Ultra package is giving the user a 'no extra charge' W5700 then that $6,999 MP 2019 is now a $5,999. If the M2 Extreme had come through a similar play where the W6800 costs would be folded into the baseline.

IMHO the larger disconnect is the sizable number of folks who are price anchored on the maintream mid-high end consumer GPU card prices and mapping that into Mac Pro configuration prices. Apple has been disconnected from that for very long while. A subset of those cards "happened to work" inside of a Mac Pro 2019 , but that never was Apple's primary point with doing the Mac Pro 2019. Those "happen to work" cards all got an almost free piggy back rides out of the primary work that Apple wanted to do. Intel's CPU and chipsets needed some more modern UEFI updates so those got weaved into the MP 2019 , but that was doing most of the motivating and primary work there.

Apple dumped UEFI with M-series. Changed the kernel security model. Haven't signed any 3rd party GPU drives in over 2 years. Haven't even incorporated an GPU driver abstraction the drive object hierarchy. Even if Apple did a dGPU it would be useless in the general PC market having completely different boot firmware and radically different drivers. That means it won't get any the R&D cost amortization over a large volume , which means the units costs will be largely detached from mainstream GPU prices.

The notion that "well Apple does iGPU and those will make it cheap". Cough. go look at how much money Intel is burning getting into the dGPU market. AMD 7900 benchmarks don't match the spec hype from a couple of months ago and now 'targeting' the 4080 instead of 4090. (not quite the same scale of driver meltdown but substantive issues ). Likewise, Nvidia isn't king kong of the iGPU market either. Extremely high quality, broad spectrum drivers in a different space aren't cheap.

There is just far more higher synergy across the iOS/iPad/WatchOS/macOS/realityOS ecosystem for deeper Apple iGPU app optimization then anything some dGPU tangent is going to generate.


[ Scoped down from the complexity of a display GPU API (Metal ) to a much simpler compute only API ( OpenCL , SYCL , or perhaps "compute only Metal" ) which also throws out boot issues is a more tractable path to weave in a compute accelerator for more 3rd party compute grunt work. It wouldn't need to be an Apple GPU foundation. Not necessarily super consumer commodity market cheap (not going to make the lowest price anchored folks happy), but far more aligned in objectives and pricing. ]
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
Or what if the cpu/gpu card (up to ultra) was on a daughter card and there were 4 SoC slots? Connected to a center connector fanning out like a cross to keep distances short. InfinityFusion. Transparent to apples apis. So fully loaded we would have 8 x m2 max chips 😂

The farther the SoCs are physically separated the less transparent they will be. Can't magically hide that with the current standard Apple APIs or standard program structure. Larger and larger NUMA effects have disruptive implications for applications across all operating sytsems and library that don't have that problem built-in.

Even Apple's MPX modules that use AMD InfinityFabric bridges don't transparently deal with remote GPUs. Have to explicit program to take advantage of those link ( so not 'transparent').

If "InfinityFusion" is alluding to using UltraFusion like technology the 'short distances' there are in single digit millimeter, not anything like DIMM or PCI-e standard slots widths. It is a intrapackage connection tech where only have to make it from die edge to another on package die edge sitting on top of the same mini-interposer die.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
Since this is the "WHAT IF" thread, I had an idea earlier about how potentially Apple could get around their expandability issues with some form of lease / hardware subscription model instead of just flat-out trying to sell an expensive machine on an architecture that isn't quite ready for the Mac Pro just yet.

I think there is a substantive subset that are grumbling about price , but there is a far bigger subset grumbling more so at the 'root cause' level about control. Sometimes that overlaps in 'controlling the price' but often about just plain 'control' ( a tech hardware control variation of BDSM ). It is the 'it is now mine and I can do whatever I want" aspect. Leasing isn't going to help those folks. In fact, pretty likely just going to grumble even louder because this even more directly steps on their root cause issue.


Also not going to help with the folks who more so just want a container for something that Apple doesn't make ( Card X or Card Y). Leasing isn't likely going to make the container substantially cheaper. They also really don't want to change containers often even if could somewhat offer it magically cheaper. The focus really isn't primarily the baseline Mac hardware.



An "iPhone Upgrade Subscription" at $6K level? Not.

I didn't buy the M1 Ultra because I knew the M2 Ultra would be significantly better, and now I'm skeptical about buying an M2 Ultra because it seems like it's probably going to be missing features that we won't see until M3 / M4 when the architecture has settled down and you know that the difference between M(n) and M(n+1) is just going to be an incremental performance bump.

Instead Apple could come out with a Mac Pro in the 6.1 mould that you pay X-hundred dollars per month to lease depending on the spec, and then the second they drop the M3 or additional GPUs, or you decide you need more RAM / storage etc. you could pay a small upgrade fee for your new configuration and Apple will send you an upgraded machine and a box to send your old machine back that they can refurb / upgrade to send to the next person / recycle.

There has been a lot of talk about Apple offering "hardware subscriptions" for stuff like iPhones, but I think it makes a lot more sense at the highest end where people want to sit at the cutting edge of performance and would be willing to pay to avoid the hassle of manually upgrading and selling their old machine.

The likely flawed built in presumption here is that Apple is going to lease these systems as some kind of loss-leader rate below costs. The costs for leasing these system to a large group of folks who flit willy-nilly from new shiny feature 37 and 52 to shiny new feature 113 to 142 to shiny new feature xxx yyy year after year after year is high; not low.

In the Phone upgrade market, what happens to some extent is that some of those "dumped every year" phones are feed back into the warranty "replace with refurbished" program. There is somewhere for that old equpement to go as folks drop their phones in toilets / on subway tracks were run over / etc. Applecare helps pay for that overhead since it is an overhead over and above the price of the phone.

Buying Phone outright and finding a reasonably good used reselling market can often be cheaper than Apple's Upgrade program for folks who want to churn their phone every year. Apple isn't offering much of a discount. It is just a way to make payments at effectively low interest rates.

If the Mac Pro doesn't get extremely lighter that annual shipping cost would be a "savings zone" either. The costs for shipping a Phone and a Mac Pro are worlds apart. For the MP 2019 it was very puzzling why Apple tried to whip up their usual "impluse buy" fever at launch. That isn't a "impluse buy" system. Neither in price or even more so in weight ( oh snap I really wanted model Y instead of model X Driving that kind of churn is only going to set the overall initial system price higher; because Apple isn't going to 'eat' those extra shipping costs. ).


P.S. Apple has leasing programs.

https://www.apple.com/shop/finance/business-financing


There are 12/24/36 month leasing options. Anyone who wants to churn every 12 months has had options for a long time.
 
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jmho

macrumors 6502a
Jun 11, 2021
502
996
The likely flawed built in presumption here is that Apple is going to lease these systems as some kind of loss-leader rate below costs.
No, I'd expect to be paying through the nose for the absolute very best hardware Apple can make.

The problem that Apple always has with their pro machines is that they don't update them for years, which is ridiculous for a market segment that wants power above everything.

The "hardware subscription" idea was supposed to be a way to incentivise Apple into providing a steady stream of upgrades to keep people paying their (incredibly expensive) subs.

The problem with Apple's current leasing options is that if you had leased a 7.1 in 2019 for 36 months you could now upgrade to..... uh.... an identical 7.1.

That said I do get all your points, I don't actually want a hardware subscription - I think I'm just in the bargaining phase for the fact that the 8.1 Mac Pro is looking more and more like it's not going to be what I want.
 

MisterAndrew

macrumors 68030
Sep 15, 2015
2,895
2,390
Portland, Ore.
There are rumors the new Mac Pro is a replacement for the Studio. Multiple other sources seem to confirm that saying it will be smaller and less expensive than the 7,1. If that’s true then I expect it to start around the same price as the Studio. That will give customers better value for their money, especially if it has some expansion capabilities.

Of course where does that leave the 7,1? I think it will either live on and get updated or it will be discontinued. That high-end segment of the market isn’t huge, but I don’t see Apple wanting to lose it. If it lives on will it assume a new name? Mac Pro Ultra? Mac Enterprise?

 
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