Mac Pro alternatives

[Jake99]

No it doesn't . It shows the percentages of desktop vs. laptop sales. For each year how what was the allocation of those sold. It shows absolutely nothing about unit sales. The units from each year are normalized to be what indicates 100% for that year. There is nothing here that illustrates how many are being sold between years.

Not sure what that "gotcha" is that you are trying to prove here. The chart shows that compared to laptop sales, the desktop sales are way down from the proportion they used to be. They used to be 75% in 2000, now they are 25%. I know the chart does not say "how many" are being sold.

Do we know for sure if they are selling more Mac Pro's vs iMacs and Mac Mini? No we don't have that number, but you really think the Mac Pro is outselling either one of those models? And do you really think the Mac Pro is on an upward graph in terms of sales? Do you think Apple are selling more and more of them year over year? Even here on this board us Apple fanatics hesitate to buy it. And in big corporate America (where enterprise IT is owned by Dell and HP and IBM), they are not buying Mac Pro desktops, certainly not on any upswing that is for sure.

So the core issue is not what Apple is going to do. It is whether folks will buy them or not. If they don't, it will get canceled.

That does not make any sense. Of course it depends on what Apple does. Its called marketing and sales and product development. And folks won't buy them if they are over-priced and don't suit their needs compared to other choices in the marketplace. As the marketplace changes and evolves, so must Apple's approach. Usually we are way ahead of that curve and it is Apple who is setting the changes. There is an opportunity here for Apple to re-tool the whole desktop "Pro" image and approach - and generate some real enthusiasm and yes, revenue. The question is, do they feel its worth the investment given their other choices in direction. Or, is their plan to re-tool by just making a very high-powered iMac and view the screwdriver turners as irrelevant to their strategy?

Apple needs to make the product buyable in order for it to sell. To just sit and wait while sales become less and less meaningful, hoping somehow people will suddenly decide to buy them, makes absolutely no sense. Unless you are just hoping you can sell out your inventory, which some think is what they are doing. Just updating the processor so its 12% faster is not a sea-change either.

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Interestingly enough, the graph you supplied is not about Mac Pro sales. While its no secret laptop and mobile devices are greatly distancing desktop sales its more then likely showing consumer numbers and not business and enterprise use.

While professionals, business & enterprise can make due with ipads & MacBook Pros & Air you will see an increase/increased need for desktops like imac, mac mini & Mac Pro's in this market. The use of Macs in this market is expected to increase by 57%.

Like some one mentioned, while Laptops have overtaken desktops, desktop sales have still increased not decreased, so they are still profitable and they are still needed.

Agreed, my initial reference to that graph was poorly worded.

I hope you are right. I would agree the affordable Mac Mini and the iMac will sell well, I am not sure that there is going to be an increase in demand for Mac Pro's going forward. Not sure what you are basing that on.

 

[wallysb01]

Interestingly enough, the graph you supplied is not about Mac Pro sales. While its no secret laptop and mobile devices are greatly distancing desktop sales its more then likely showing consumer numbers and not business and enterprise use.

Yeah, he had to do some back peddling, but he still seems quite certain about his perception of the fact regarding Mac pro sales. Even without any data to go on (other than what any non-genius knows).

Anyway, we've beat this to death. Yes Mac pros increasingly make up smaller and smaller percent of apple sales, but that doesn't mean their growth is not positive or that they continue to be profitable. The only way we'll get a clue to if these things are or are not true is when maybe May or June rolls around and we still don't have a new Mac pro.

 

[Jake99]

Yeah, he had to do some back peddling, but he still seems quite certain about his perception of the fact regarding Mac pro sales. Even without any data to go on (other than what any non-genius knows).

Anyway, we've beat this to death. Yes Mac pros increasingly make up smaller and smaller percent of apple sales, but that doesn't mean their growth is not positive or that they continue to be profitable. The only way we'll get a clue to if these things are or are not true is when maybe May or June rolls around and we still don't have a new Mac pro.

I don't see what the problem is. Admitting when something is not well worded or is misinterpreted is not back-peddling, its just part of being in a mature discussion. Who among you all is perfect? In the most productive conversations there is some give-and-take, people admit where they may have been wrong or unclear, and all learn something.

All of us are just speculating and those arguing against my conclusion are not based on any further facts than I have, since as many pointed out we don't have hard numbers on #units sold of Mac Pro. The graph does not say its excluding corporate sales, but someone wants to assume that - I am not the only one trying to infer things. We are all just trying to piece together something out of the info we have.

If you read articles about this there are all kinds of conclusions being drawn, some of them quoting sources within Apple, that the Mac Pro's days may be numbered. But I guess that is why this website is called "Mac Rumors". ;-)
Since Apple does not spit out all the sales facts (I don't blame them, I wouldn't either) we are left to speculate.

I get the feeling people are pissed off just because I have an alternative viewpoint of the info that is out there. One that is a legitimate possibility and is already out there among others looking at this situation. I don't want to see the Mac Pro disappear either but its puzzling and disappointing that Apple seems to be doing nothing with it. I guess we will know more in the coming months.

 

[Hellhammer]

What are the current restrictions like? I've noticed in a lot of comparative testing, the tests don't really run for any extreme length of time. It makes me wonder how long these machines can keep cranking at maxed out turbo settings (say you were rendering or processing a ton of photos or something, and yeah I'd prefer a mac pro for that).

It depends on four things:

• Number of active cores
• Estimated current consumption
• Estimated power consumption
• Processor temperature

Basically, what Ivy Bridge may have is lower current and power consumption and temperature. That would allow it to run at its Turbo speed for longer periods.

I tried this quickly on my desktop (i5-2500K, default clocks and stock cooler) by encoding an MKV in HandBrake. Jumped to 3.4GHz right away (max 4-core Turbo) and stayed at that until I stopped the test after 5mins or so as it was boring. The temps were rising, but very slowly. I hit like 63 Celsius but it would probably need +80C to start bottlenecking the CPU. Should be a bigger thing in laptops as those easily get over 80C when doing CPU intensive tasks.

HandBrake didn't allow me to limit the CPU usage to just one core as I suspect the temp would have raised quicker if I had had a single core at full speed.

 

[Jake99]

This is interesting:

http://9to5mac.com/2011/04/21/prototype-next-gen-mac-pro-detailed-redesigned-rackable-stackable/

 

[Hellhammer]

This is interesting:

http://9to5mac.com/2011/04/21/prototype-next-gen-mac-pro-detailed-redesigned-rackable-stackable/

It was posted in April. Just a rumor, though. Doesn't make it impossible but don't bet on it either.

 

[thekev]

I tried this quickly on my desktop (i5-2500K, default clocks and stock cooler) by encoding an MKV in HandBrake. Jumped to 3.4GHz right away (max 4-core Turbo) and stayed at that until I stopped the test after 5mins or so as it was boring. The temps were rising, but very slowly. I hit like 63 Celsius but it would probably need +80C to start bottlenecking the CPU. Should be a bigger thing in laptops as those easily get over 80C when doing CPU intensive tasks.

HandBrake didn't allow me to limit the CPU usage to just one core as I suspect the temp would have raised quicker if I had had a single core at full speed.

That sounds like about as much fun as watching a display calibration (as in extremely boring, I'm not THAT big of a nerd). Considering that people mention their macbook pros hitting that temperature range regularly, it could definitely be a factor. It would be pretty awesome to see a laptop that could run in a cool/stable manner for a long period of time. On a side note, the imac could probably reach that temperature level too, but its turbo boost isn't such a big jump from its base clock speed.

 

[wallysb01]

I don't see what the problem is. Admitting when something is not well worded or is misinterpreted is not back-peddling, its just part of being in a mature discussion. Who among you all is perfect? In the most productive conversations there is some give-and-take, people admit where they may have been wrong or unclear, and all learn something.
...
I get the feeling people are pissed off just because I have an alternative viewpoint of the info that is out there. One that is a legitimate possibility and is already out there among others looking at this situation. I don't want to see the Mac Pro disappear either but its puzzling and disappointing that Apple seems to be doing nothing with it. I guess we will know more in the coming months.

Really Jake, "mature discussion"? Let me take this quote for example:

It does not take a genius to figure out that they are selling way more mac mini's and iMacs than they are selling Mac Pro's. And even if the percentages were evenly divided among desktop models - does anyone think that the Mac Pro is the biggest selling Desktop Apple makes? Its hard to even imagine an upward graph the past several years in Mac Pro sales.

A. You're telling us what some non-genius should be able to figure out. Ok, no kidding. The >$2500 Mac Pro doesn't sell as much as the $700 Mac Mini. Does that mean the Mac Pro is any less profitable? Hard to say without more information.
B. You ridicule anyone that thinks the Mac Pro is the biggest selling Apple desktop? Mature? Huh?
C. Why is it hard to imagine upward Mac Pro sales? What data are you using to guide your imagination outside, well, imagination?

So, what part of this is mature? Please. You can correct yourself, that's great, and yes its part of a mature conversation. But the rest of your reasoning and language used to defend it towards those that disagree with you is anything but mature. There is a reason people are reacting to you this way and its not just because we all want to be jerks.

 

[Jake99]

Really Jake, "mature discussion"? Let me take this quote for example:



A. You're telling us what some non-genius should be able to figure out. Ok, no kidding. The >$2500 Mac Pro doesn't sell as much as the $700 Mac Mini. Does that mean the Mac Pro is any less profitable? Hard to say without more information.
B. You ridicule anyone that thinks the Mac Pro is the biggest selling Apple desktop? Mature? Huh?
C. Why is it hard to imagine upward Mac Pro sales? What data are you using to guide your imagination outside, well, imagination?

So, what part of this is mature? Please. You can correct yourself, that's great, and yes its part of a mature conversation. But the rest of your reasoning and language used to defend it towards those that disagree with you is anything but mature. There is a reason people are reacting to you this way and its not just because we all want to be jerks.

Wow. Okay, struck a nerve. Alright you win! lol No need for the personal attack.

I apologize if people thought I was ridiculing them. Not intended. Not anywhere near my intention. Are you serious? I don't think anyone on this thread is stupid, in fact quite the contrary.

So you think the Mac Pro is the biggest selling desktop. So you think its very profitable. Since neither of us has the details, its just speculation. I will allow you your speculation (no insult intended) if you allow me mine. That sound fair? As to trying to insult you or anyone else on here, that is not intended whatsoever - and again my sincere apology.

TBH there are way more important things in life, than to get all upset about a discussion about a piece of hardware.

 

[goMac]

I think we can all agree, whatever the market share numbers say, that the Mac Pros days are likely numbered. It probably won't be a horrible thing. If Thunderbolt gets fast enough to support desktop graphics cards or breakout towers, I would be content with a Macbook Air or Pro that gains Mac Pro like features when docked at home.

The issue is we're not at the point where Thunderbolt can replace a Mac Pro. I can see Apple pushing a few more incremental updates to the Mac Pro while they wait for technology to catch up. Let's hope that's the path they take.

 

[linuxcooldude]

While I think more desktops are sold then the Mac Pro, I think profit per workstation is much higher then most of the Apple desktops/laptops. Depending on how their configured and options selected.

I think the cost of updating their workstations compared to their desktop/laptop line is lower. Usually a firmware update, a new graphics card with usually the same form factor. Lower costs.

 

[wallysb01]

Wow. Okay, struck a nerve. Alright you win! lol No need for the personal attack.

I apologize if people thought I was ridiculing them. Not intended. Not anywhere near my intention. Are you serious? I don't think anyone on this thread is stupid, in fact quite the contrary.

So you think the Mac Pro is the biggest selling desktop. So you think its very profitable. Since neither of us has the details, its just speculation. I will allow you your speculation (no insult intended) if you allow me mine. That sound fair? As to trying to insult you or anyone else on here, that is not intended whatsoever - and again my sincere apology.

TBH there are way more important things in life, than to get all upset about a discussion about a piece of hardware.

Sigh...Ok, you make one assumption that Mac Pro sales look like a backwards ski slop and we point out those numbers aren't available. Then, you show us a graph of relative desktop and laptop sales in Apple and call it a decline in desktop sales vs laptop sales. Next its pointed out those aren't sales numbers, and that desktop sales are UP, yet laptop sales are up MORE. Then respond with a childish "Not sure what that "gotcha" is that you are trying to prove here." Then finally you rant about a "mature" conversation.

That post was trying to clarify what that data was showing because you either poorly phrased it or didn't understand it when trying to explain it. If we're going to have a "mature" conversations, certainly we need that to be clear, right? Yet when someone clarifies it, somehow its a "gotcha" that you brush off in so many words?

Oh, and what personal attack do you think I made against you in my previous post?

 

[goMac]

Sigh...Ok, you make one assumption that Mac Pro sales look like a backwards ski slop and we point out those numbers aren't available. Then, you show us a graph of relative desktop and laptop sales in Apple and call it a decline in desktop sales vs laptop sales. Next its pointed out those aren't sales numbers, and that desktop sales are UP, yet laptop sales are up MORE. Then respond with a childish "Not sure what that "gotcha" is that you are trying to prove here." Then finally you rant about a "mature" conversation.

That post was trying to clarify what that data was showing because you either poorly phrased it or didn't understand it when trying to explain it. If we're going to have a "mature" conversations, certainly we need that to be clear, right? Yet when someone clarifies it, somehow its a "gotcha" that you brush off in so many words?

Oh, and what personal attack do you think I made against you in my previous post?

The things to consider with Mac Pro sales (assuming one can even find the numbers) is that the profit margins are way way higher than the other machines (they still sell the 5870 for above introductory price, that alone is probably a higher margin that a Mac Mini or an iMac), and the current sales will be low because of the lack of a refresh.

 

[wallysb01]

While I think more desktops are sold then the Mac Pro, I think profit per workstation is much higher then most of the Apple desktops/laptops. Depending on how their configured and options selected.

I think the cost of updating their workstations compared to their desktop/laptop line is lower. Usually a firmware update, a new graphics card with usually the same form factor. Lower costs.

Exactly. And I'm guessing Apple probably wants Xeon workstations running OS X internally anyway. So they probably want to do a certain amount of R&D to get those working on new chips for their own purposes regardless. If that's true, then its probably pretty easy to keep the form factor the same, apply those firmware updates and assemble them with the new parts. Through economies of scale the manufacturing costs per unit can be less too. Since, if Apple just wanted a few hundred OS X workstations a year, it would probably be cost-ineffect to make them only for themselves. But if you can sell 50K of them to the public every year and have insane profit margin on them...

 

[derbothaus]

Exactly. And I'm guessing Apple probably wants Xeon workstations running OS X internally anyway. So they probably want to do a certain amount of R&D to get those working on new chips for their own purposes regardless. If that's true, then its probably pretty easy to keep the form factor the same, apply those firmware updates and assemble them with the new parts. Through economies of scale the manufacturing costs per unit can be less too. Since, if Apple just wanted a few hundred OS X workstations a year, it would probably be cost-ineffect to make them only for themselves. But if you can sell 50K of them to the public every year and have insane profit margin on them...

Apple does very little to get them "running" OS X. Intel does all the work Apple just re-uses their 10-year old case and splits out the daughterboard. Maybe a more powerful PSU. Tinkers with fan speeds and bakes them for a few weeks.

 

[Jake99]

Sigh...Ok, you make one assumption that Mac Pro sales look like a backwards ski slop and we point out those numbers aren't available. Then, you show us a graph of relative desktop and laptop sales in Apple and call it a decline in desktop sales vs laptop sales. Next its pointed out those aren't sales numbers, and that desktop sales are UP, yet laptop sales are up MORE. Then respond with a childish "Not sure what that "gotcha" is that you are trying to prove here." Then finally you rant about a "mature" conversation.

That post was trying to clarify what that data was showing because you either poorly phrased it or didn't understand it when trying to explain it. If we're going to have a "mature" conversations, certainly we need that to be clear, right? Yet when someone clarifies it, somehow its a "gotcha" that you brush off in so many words?

Oh, and what personal attack do you think I made against you in my previous post?

Dude, you are WAY over-reacting. You are characterizing things I said with a very skewed view. Blatantly calling me childish and immature is not a personal attack? Taking everything I said and trying to make its sound like nothing but a crazed rant attacking anyone who did not agree, is an unfair characterization and another insult. How could you possibly read my post where I talk about a mature conversation, as a "rant'? The only one ranting here is YOU. This is your response to my short post offering an apology?

If you look back at my posts there are a few lines that set you off, and you put the most negative possible interpretation on everything said. But I am not going to argue with you about that lens you are looking through anymore, because quite frankly I could care less about what you think of me.

Show me what is "immature" and "childish" about my last two posts, trying to bring this to conclusion and even apologizing. Can you note the meaning of an apology? No, you just want to keep attacking.

Not sure how low your self-esteem must be to take such personal offense over a few comments from a message board, a message board on a site called Mac RUMORS, where speculation is openly invited. But I guess you only like speculation that you agree with.

You are all uptight about things said early on that were not directed specifically at you, and you are working super hard to read negative intent where there is none. You are a person who is looking for someone to get angry with, aren't you?

I have totally zero interest in your twisted paraphrasing of what I wrote, which has at this point has become a sort of mentally ill rant, perhaps you should look in the mirror if you want to look for childish and immature behavior. I am done with you dude. Keep posting your attacks on me if you want to, at this point the adult in the conversation is moving on. Maybe you have nothing better to do, I certainly do.

 

[ClassObject]

Dude, you are WAY over-reacting. You are characterizing things I said with a very skewed view. Blatantly calling me childish and immature is not a personal attack? Taking everything I said and trying to make its sound like nothing but a crazed rant attacking anyone who did not agree, is an unfair characterization and another insult. How could you possibly read my post where I talk about a mature conversation, as a "rant'? The only one ranting here is YOU. This is your response to my short post offering an apology?

If you look back at my posts there are a few lines that set you off, and you put the most negative possible interpretation on everything said. But I am not going to argue with you about that lens you are looking through anymore, because quite frankly I could care less about what you think of me.

Show me what is "immature" and "childish" about my last two posts, trying to bring this to conclusion and even apologizing. Can you note the meaning of an apology? No, you just want to keep attacking.

Not sure how low your self-esteem must be to take such personal offense over a few comments from a message board, a message board on a site called Mac RUMORS, where speculation is openly invited. But I guess you only like speculation that you agree with.

You are all uptight about things said early on that were not directed specifically at you, and you are working super hard to read negative intent where there is none. You are a person who is looking for someone to get angry with, aren't you?

I have totally zero interest in your twisted paraphrasing of what I wrote, which has at this point has become a sort of mentally ill rant, perhaps you should look in the mirror if you want to look for childish and immature behavior. I am done with you dude. Keep posting your attacks on me if you want to, at this point the adult in the conversation is moving on. Maybe you have nothing better to do, I certainly do.

Too funny. You are getting WAY too worked up on speculation. It's just a computer. It's been going on for years. Apple II, Mac II, Quadro, PowerPC, prior to Nehalem, prior to Westmere all said the same - people were saying its a dead end. Nobody knew what they were talking about. Nobody knows what's next but history has shown that even if the current pro machine is dropped, something better will replace it.

 

[Jake99]

Too funny. You are getting WAY too worked up on speculation. It's just a computer. It's been going on for years. Apple II, Mac II, Quadro, PowerPC, prior to Nehalem, prior to Westmere all said the same - people were saying its a dead end. Nobody knew what they were talking about. Nobody knows what's next but history has shown that even if the current pro machine is dropped, something better will replace it.

Agreed, I am not worked up about the speculation, I think I said that there are way more important things in life that to get uptight about besides a piece of hardware.

Just don't like this dude jumping all over me just because he does not agree with me. I tried to be nice and apologize so we could move on, he wants to keep analyzing and restating what I wrote into his own words, and stepping on me.

Anyway this kind of stuff gets boring real fast and this thread was not opened for this kind of conversation. Won't be replying to him further so he can have the satisfaction of one more parting shot, or whatever. Who cares. Agree its time to move on.

 

[wallysb01]

Apple does very little to get them "running" OS X. Intel does all the work Apple just re-uses their 10-year old case and splits out the daughterboard. Maybe a more powerful PSU. Tinkers with fan speeds and bakes them for a few weeks.

Then it seems it would be even cheaper to keep Mac Pros going than I had thought.

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...which has at this point has become a sort of mentally ill rant.

I was just skimming this quite obvious rant, and was sure you were talking about what you'd digressed to, but then I stopped, read more clearly and realized you were actually talking about me. Just wow.

Anyway, its nice to see such a long diatribe directed at someone who's opinion you don't care about. Have a good night.

 

[wallysb01]

Just don't like this dude jumping all over me just because he does not agree with me. I tried to be nice and apologize so we could move on, he wants to keep analyzing and restating what I wrote into his own words, and stepping on me.

Anyway this kind of stuff gets boring real fast and this thread was not opened for this kind of conversation. Won't be replying to him further so he can have the satisfaction of one more parting shot, or whatever. Who cares. Agree its time to move on.

Its always my favorite when someone writes a nice long post venting off everything they can possibly think of and then, as if in an attempt to claim high ground, the person declares they won't respond to who ever they are venting towards.

Oh internet message boards, they can be fun.