Mac Pro as a main Windows gaming machine?

[Dont Hurt Me]

The article is in the febuary edition 2007 of Pc Gamer, wait its not even feb yet! anyways pg 30 and they pulled the 7300Gt out and used a X1900Xt. They tried the new 8800 class cards but were having issues getting it to work so they couldnt provide benches for that one. Also for anyone reading the Mag they had reversed the benches for Mac Pro vs the homemade they made with a 8800 though the chart I posted in the link is the correct chart. They said a powermac would be fine if you had to have OSX but didnt mind a strong yet 2nd tier gaming scores. Those benches are at 1600 x 1200 all settings maxed. Hope that helps.

 

[bearbo]

The Mac Pro is a fantastic gaming machine.
Even more so because you can put almost an GPU into it for Windows.

that sounds so sad.

 

[product26]

that sounds so sad.

oh no... someone forgot the y

 

[bearbo]

oh no... someone forgot the y

it's a wonder what one letter can do to you.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

As in a question? because the state of Mac software and gaming has devolved into such a sad state that it has to run Windblows?

 

[patrick0brien]

If you want a MacPro for a gaming machine (i.e. your gonna run Windows on it...) then you will have to fork over some extra $$$ for a DirectX 10 capable card. With Vista this close you might as well get it, and since you are spending the cash for a MacPro gaming rig then you can probably afford the extra card. Sadly Apple only sells the ATI 1900XT which is NOT a DX10 card. Buying a GeForce 8 series card won't currently work on OS X (though it will in Windows), so if you want to switch back to OS X you will also have to switch the video card because apparently you can't boot into OS X with an 8 series card + one of the Apple offered cards in the machine at once.

-psingh01

This is an interesting statement. How can one find out what cards are DirectX and DirectX 10 compatible?

 

[amtctt]

... and on the Pro, there's no way to add a gaming audio card.

Not true. there is a bridge made for the purpose of adding PCI audio cards to PCI-E slots. Mine comes today. i'll post this weekend and let you all know if it works well. sounds like it could be a great solution to this problem.

 

[psingh01]

-psingh01

This is an interesting statement. How can one find out what cards are DirectX and DirectX 10 compatible?

Well basically any video card will be DirectX compatible (i.e. you will have to look very hard to get an old card that only supports some old version of DX and it probably won't even fit in your MacPro because the MP uses PCI express slots ). Apple's ATI offering is DX9 compatible and is great for all the latest games.....but with Vista we get DirectX 10 and some of those games will be updated to use it like Company of Heroes and at some point MS Flight Simulator not to mention new games that aren't out yet.

As far as what cards are DirectX 10 ready....I believe the only option now is the NVidia 8800 series cards. They are VERY expensive. ATI does not have an offering yet but it will be the R600 series. Expect more to come out once Vista is in gamers hands.

 

[Dane D.]

So after reading everybody's post, the logicial conclusion is get a Mac, unless you are hardcore gamer. Interesting, the Windows box has become what I always thought it was - a game console. Judging by the opinions posted one can only conclude that Macs are for getting work done and Windows boxes are for gaming. There I said it, having reading hundreds of posts about Bootcamp, WinXP on Macs, and so-on. Windows is nothing more than a game console OS. I've played games on custom-built AMD boxes, running the latest hardware goodies, they are great at pushing high fps numbers but lack a sense of realism in the game environments. My opinion is, if you want to do things effortlessly get a Mac and enjoy the games you can play. If you are a drooling hardcore gamer than build a PC.

 

[Sesshi]

Not true. there is a bridge made for the purpose of adding PCI audio cards to PCI-E slots. Mine comes today. i'll post this weekend and let you all know if it works well. sounds like it could be a great solution to this problem.

*Steeples hands*
Iiiiinteresting.

Do let us know how you get on. And how much it all costs when you add it up.

EDIT: Actually, got a link? I might as well pick one up and try it out.

 

[amtctt]

*Steeples hands*
Iiiiinteresting.

Do let us know how you get on. And how much it all costs when you add it up.

EDIT: Actually, got a link? I might as well pick one up and try it out.

yeah, i can't wait. it's at home right now waiting, but i'm stuck at work. only $20, well $26 with shipping. not too bad considering i was going to try and find a creative usb external card on ebay, and those were going anywhere from $30-50 and i already had an x-fi card, so this makes so much more sense. hopefully it works well. anyway, here is the link:

http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=PEX8111-BB66BC-Fvirtualkey58310000virtualkey862-PEX8111-BB66BC-F

 

[Sesshi]

yeah, i can't wait. it's at home right now waiting, but i'm stuck at work. only $20, well $26 with shipping. not too bad considering i was going to try and find a creative usb external card on ebay, and those were going anywhere from $30-50 and i already had an x-fi card, so this makes so much more sense. hopefully it works well. anyway, here is the link:

http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=PEX8111-BB66BC-Fvirtualkey58310000virtualkey862-PEX8111-BB66BC-F

You're a "card"

Almost had me fooled for a second there.

 

[capran]

The Mac Pro simply isn't a gaming machine for 2 reasons: dual Xeons and FB-DIMMs.

At this time, as had been said, very few games make much use of multi-threading/benefit from it. In some cases, performance diminishes when multiple CPUs are added to the system.

And FB-DIMMs. New serialized RAM basically. It promises higher throughput, but right now, well, it sucks, especially for games. It's twice as latent and twice as expensive. Anandtech did a nice technical article about it.

So, I, being a gamer and a Mac lover, am in a bind. I can either stay with my slow G4 mini plus Pentium-D game box, keep the mini as Mac but upgrade the PC, get a new Intel mini and keep the PC, or go hog wild and buy a Mac Pro to replace both. The 24" iMac is also a consideration, but not quite a gaming box (slab?) either since even the 7600GT option is only mid-range and there's no aftermarket upgrade available.

I'm holding out a sliver of hope (in vain, I'm sure, knowing Teh Steve) that Apple will come out with a mid-range Conroe Core 2 Duo based Mac that uses regular DDR2 RAM and at least 1 PCI-E 16X slot.

The other day, I also had an interesting thought regarding the possible next generation of consumer computers. The 24" iMac was the first ever to use the MXM module, but it's not user-accessible and not advertised as upgradeable. What if Apple, with the next revisions, put MXM modules (and access doors!) across the Mac Mini, iMac, Mac Book, and Mac Book Pro lines? And offered a number of build-to-order options, as well as aftermarket upgrades?

Gamers would be happy, and the current stagnant 3rd party Mac upgrade market would be revived! The original iMac could be upgraded with a 3dfx Voodoo card, and there's still processor upgrades for the old G3/4 Macs that have socketed CPUs, so why not?

 

[topgunn]

I think that review was done with the 7300GT that came stock in the Mac Pro at the time of publication. Have they done an updated review now that the ATI Upgrade cards are shipping? Because those numbers definetly do relate to what you would get on a 7300 or there was something seriously wrong with the config if it had a 1900xt in it.

It is definitely not the 7300GT. They are comparing the Mac Pro to a "MUTTNIK" gaming rig equipped with an ATI 1900 and again with an nVidia 8800. The Mac Pro scores just behind the Muttnik 1900 which is exactly what we should expect since the Muttnik should be using stanard DDR2 memory instead of the high latency FB-DIMM's in the Mac Pro and since the Muttnik should have a more gaming friendly motherboard than the 5000X in the Mac Pro.

 

[briantology]

Just get whatever Mac you want, get rid of your PC, then buy and Xbox and Halo 2. That's all I need...

But seriously, I don't game with a-s-d-w, I use A-B-X-Y. To each his own.

 

[capran]

Just get whatever Mac you want, get rid of your PC, then buy and Xbox and Halo 2. That's all I need...

Well, that'd work if I was only interested in {insert mindless ultraviolent shooter with newest eye candy}. But I also like some RTS games, as well as SimCity/Civilization style games. I'm dying to play Spore, for instance.

But seriously, I don't game with a-s-d-w, I use A-B-X-Y. To each his own.

As far as shooters go, I hate gamepads. Give me a keyboard and a mouse. But I am extremely intrigued by the Nintendo Wii's controller and what might be possible for FPSers.

 

[St. Germain]

Well, that'd work if I was only interested in {insert mindless ultraviolent shooter with newest eye candy}. But I also like some RTS games, as well as SimCity/Civilization style games. I'm dying to play Spore, for instance.



As far as shooters go, I hate gamepads. Give me a keyboard and a mouse. But I am extremely intrigued by the Nintendo Wii's controller and what might be possible for FPSers.

I agree on all counts. Consoles just don't get it done as far as strategy games go.

So far this thread has been pretty disappointing for me. A dose of reality I guess that I can't have OSX and do any serious gaming (without installing OSX on a hacked PC anyway.) I may have to end up going that route.

 

[After G]

I agree on all counts. Consoles just don't get it done as far as strategy games go.

So far this thread has been pretty disappointing for me. A dose of reality I guess that I can't have OSX and do any serious gaming (without installing OSX on a hacked PC anyway.) I may have to end up going that route.

Forgive my ignorance with regards to PC gaming, but what kind of strategy game requires a DX10 card? Overkill?

Windows on a Mac has its caveats. It's up to you whether you want both a PC to game and a Mac to get things done, or one machine and potentially swapping video cards (if you want the new NVIDIA stuff). I personally find that all a better card gets you in Windows is higher framerate in games, not necessarily an increase in realism.

 

[St. Germain]

Forgive my ignorance with regards to PC gaming, but what kind of strategy game requires a DX10 card? Overkill?

Windows on a Mac has its caveats. It's up to you whether you want both a PC to game and a Mac to get things done, or one machine and potentially swapping video cards (if you want the new NVIDIA stuff). I personally find that all a better card gets you in Windows is higher framerate in games, not necessarily an increase in realism.

Have you seen the new Medieval Total War II engine? Beeeeyoootiful. It runs on DX9 but their next game with their engine is supposed to use DX10.

Whatever I decide, I certainly won't be swapping video cards. I also don't buy a new video card every two years so I generally like buying close to the best I can get at the time. Unfortunately that eliminates the current Mac Pros. I would like a card that can keep up reasonably to the new Flight Simulator. Damn that's pretty. I won't be upgrading until Leopard is shipped probably so maybe they'll have a refresh with more video card options.

 

[combatcolin]

Video card options?



Apple only sell one machine that gives you a proper choice.



Oh how i wish Apple would release a normal desktop Mac that would let me return to the fold.

There laptop range is fantastic, if i ever decided to buy a laptop i would have no hesitation in buying a Macbook.

 

[whooleytoo]

-combatcolin

I think this is what they call "invidious distinction".

That's funny - I thought it was called "same difference"!

 

[psingh01]

Forgive my ignorance with regards to PC gaming, but what kind of strategy game requires a DX10 card? Overkill?

Windows on a Mac has its caveats. It's up to you whether you want both a PC to game and a Mac to get things done, or one machine and potentially swapping video cards (if you want the new NVIDIA stuff). I personally find that all a better card gets you in Windows is higher framerate in games, not necessarily an increase in realism.

Company of Heroes will be updated in March I believe to use DX10. As it is I can't currently use it on all high settings and it still looks GREAT!

 

[St. Germain]

Company of Heroes will be updated in March I believe to use DX10. As it is I can't currently use it on all high settings and it still looks GREAT!

Company of Heroes is a fantastic game. RTS games these days use 3D graphics. Even the very spartan-like Civilization series went 3D in this iteration.

 

[Sesshi]

There laptop range is fantastic, if i ever decided to buy a laptop i would have no hesitation in buying a Macbook.

Two words - Samsung Q35.

 

[MacsRgr8]

Gr8 thread.

I am so waiting for amtctt's conclusions regarding PCI-E tp PCi bridge, to be able to use an X-Fi sound card...

I am waiting for the 2nd generation of Mac Pro, and hoping for the (3rd party or not) following solutions:

- PCI-E Sound card
- DirectX10 grfx card (Mac OS X AND Windoze)
- SLI / Crossfire
- Native Vista driver support

Then you got the real deal regarding "best of both worlds": Super-duper Mac OS X machine, and gr8 Windoze gaming rig in one.